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I always figured the biggest hurdle with GTA would be coming up with a non-gun oriented moveset. Smash skirts the line as it is with firearms, and even with the melee weapons Grand Theft Auto will occasionally utilize, pistols, shotguns, and rifles are kind of significant to much of the latter series' core gameplay.
Not that he's likely to get in either, but I actually think Jimmy Hopkins from Bully would be an interesting Rockstar Games choice for Smash. Given his most lethal weapon is a potato gun, he probably could have the kind of effective but lighthearted moveset (rubber band ball, marbles, slingshot, spray paint, stink bomb) that could actually work for the rating and tone of SSB.
I also missed a lot of the Funky/echoes/slept-on picks conversation, but I still think Naked Snake/Big Boss is an incredibly likely echo fighter and I'm honestly surprised he's not brought up more.
About Funky Kong's differing animations: In Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, he does indeed have a lot of animation changes. He stands differently, his take off (but not run) animation is different, his hand slap is more of a patty cake, he surfs down ledges, has a great time in the water, and his jumps include the surf board. Honestly though? We have an Echo Fighter with extensive animation changes in Dark Samus, so there's precedent for it. In terms of power set, he could be a unique character with surfing moves and a whole lot of stuff from his stint as an arms dealer, but you could also do a lot of that justice with a clone moveset. At the very least you can change Spinning Kong to a surfing move (which would technically be a new move, but the purpose would be the same), and give him a nuke as his Final Smash.
Why would you want this? Well I think it depends on your confidence in the character, and whether or not you think they're worth the dev time. Personally, I don't think he'd get in as a full character. Stranger things have happened, but it's not something I'd bank on, and, assuming they handle it properly, making the character an Echo Fighter would satisfy me.
But the real problem is that he wouldn't have a tie hurtbox, thus making him too powerful as an Echo Fighter.
It's weird that the thread was willing to give Pyramid Head some serious analysis but GTA is considered a bridge too far. The average Silent Hill game is a lot more tonally dark, grounded, and violent than the series where you fly around with a jetpack, hunt Big Foot, and go on a Taco Bell run.
I honestly think Nintendo would be more hesitant to promote Like a Dragon over GTA, just because organized crime is generally more of a taboo subject in Japanese media than in American/British media. I still think both could happen, but let's not pretend the challenges facing each series aren't a little similar.
Well both of them are organi-...Well actually I dunno how organized the crime is in Grand Theft Auto, but it's probably similar enough if that's what we're worried about.
If we ever do get a GTA character, I would love it if they had a theft mechanic tied to a command grab. Land the grab, and he either steals the item that character was holding, or generates an item based on what the character would logically have on hand. For example if Samus isn't holding anything initiating the command grab on her causes you to yank a missile right out of her arm cannon.
As for Pyramid Head, he's got a fan moveset in Rivals of Aether that I absolutely love the idea of. Cartain moves (namely his projectile) inflict a status on you that causes you to take extra damage when he hits you again. This number goes up the longer you have the status, but you can get rid of it by hitting him at close range or parrying his attack. However, all of Pyramid Head's attacks have super armor at this close range, so you have to be extremely careful in your approach. It (theoretically) creates a super cool dynamic where you don't want to approach him because heavy swordie, and you can zone him out really easily because heavy swordie, but if he lands a projectile, you now have to engage him where he's strongest.
I also missed a lot of the Funky/echoes/slept-on picks conversation, but I still think Naked Snake/Big Boss is an incredibly likely echo fighter and I'm honestly surprised he's not brought up more.
I've actually seen a lot of people say this on other sites like Reddit over the years. Although the Snake in Smash is confirmed to be Solid, I thought his design has always incorporated elements of Big Boss so as to represent both characters at once/the franchise as a whole:
Solid Snake has never had a beard like he does in Smash, only Naked Snake/Big Boss has.
Most of his alts are based on various camo Naked Snake can use in MGS3.
His C3 will occasionally be molded into the shape of a butterfly, a reference to a cutscene in MGS3 where Naked Snake does the same.
Eating food as Snake will sometimes have him exclaim something like 'tasty!', the same thing Naked Snake does when he eats something in MGS3.
The RPG-7 Snake uses in his forward smash first appeared in MGS3.
Snake's Final Smash is reminiscent of the air strikes used in MGSV.
I don't see why they'd introduce Big Boss when the developers already went out of their way to make Solid a hybrid of both him and his father.
Kiddy Kong and Tingle as examples of the worst of gaming? Nah, those two are small potatoes. We gotta dig deeper. We gotta go worser. We gotta get E.T. for the Atari 2600. We gotta get Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde for the NES.
The best way for Smash to reference bad games would be to have the Cheetahmen being a Deluxe Mii Costume in the next Smash game and it comes with this track
I've actually seen a lot of people say this on other sites like Reddit over the years. Although the Snake in Smash is confirmed to be Solid, I thought his design has always incorporated elements of Big Boss so as to represent both characters at once/the franchise as a whole:
Solid Snake has never had a beard like he does in Smash, only Naked Snake/Big Boss has.
Most of his alts are based on various camo Naked Snake can use in MGS3.
His C3 will occasionally be molded into the shape of a butterfly, a reference to a cutscene in MGS3 where Naked Snake does the same.
Eating food as Snake will sometimes have him exclaim something like 'tasty!', the same thing Naked Snake does when he eats something in MGS3.
The RPG-7 Snake uses in his forward smash first appeared in MGS3.
Snake's Final Smash is reminiscent of the air strikes used in MGSV.
I don't see why they'd introduce Big Boss when the developers already went out of their way to make Solid a hybrid of both him and his father.
Echo fighters operate on the logic of "this is workable and would be cool" first and foremost. Getting Big Boss as a full echo fighter, even if he is in a Daisy/Dark Samus/Richter-style fighter with no differences, is workable and cooler than the alternative of not having him. The fact that Snake's current depiction in Smash contains some elements of Naked and Venom Snake makes the idea of Snake getting an echo more appealing to me, as it means Solid's moveset could be more easily transposed onto him.
My idea scenario would be that Big Boss has better frame data and damage output on his normals than Snake because he's a CQC master, while Snake has specials that are more powerful and adaptable to reflect that Solid's equipment is more modern and cutting-edge than Naked and Venom's. Big Boss would be based primarily on his appearance in MGS 3 and would inherit most of Snake's current alts. Snake, on the other hand, would trade his beard for some stubble and would get new alts based on Solid's specific appearances (e.g. an alt that dyes his hair white to reference MGS 4) and prominent characters from MGS1 and MGS2.
Echo fighters operate on the logic of "this is workable and would be cool" first and foremost. Getting Big Boss as a full echo fighter, even if he is in a Daisy/Dark Samus/Richter-style fighter with no differences, is workable and cooler than the alternative of not having him. The fact that Snake's current depiction in Smash contains some elements of Naked and Venom Snake makes the idea of Snake getting an echo more appealing to me, as it means Solid's moveset could be more easily transposed onto him.
My idea scenario would be that Big Boss has better frame data and damage output on his normals than Snake because he's a CQC master, while Snake has specials that are more powerful and adaptable to reflect that Solid's equipment is more modern and cutting-edge than Naked and Venom's. Big Boss would be based primarily on his appearance in MGS 3 and would inherit most of Snake's current alts. Snake, on the other hand, would trade his beard for some stubble and would get new alts based on Solid's specific appearances (e.g. an alt that dyes his hair white to reference MGS 4) and prominent characters from MGS1 and MGS2.
I think Big boss and Naked snake are pretty much in the same boat as Ninten, which is that the character is so visually similar to the character they would be based on that it's pretty much pointless. Sure, Daisy and Richter plays the same, but visually they have very different colors, outfits and voices.
I don’t know why guns would be an issue with joker and bayo already in game, yeah bayos are colourful but other than that they are guns coloured blue or red. And joker just has a gun. Whether it’s real or not in his game in smash there is 0 indication or mention of that.
I think Big boss and Naked snake are pretty much in the same boat as Ninten, which is that the character is so visually similar to the character they would be based on that it's pretty much pointless. Sure, Daisy and Richter plays the same, but visually they have very different colors, outfits and voices.
90% of the design differences between Ness and Ninten are fanon that was extrapolated from the original Mother's commercial. Ninten's official design is basically a less refined version of Ness' and is near identical.
Solid and Naked Snake are comparatively a lot more different. Solid's sneaking suit is a variety of industrial grays, while Big Boss instead rocks a camo colour scheme made up of grays and browns. Solid's suit is a skintight full-body morphsuit, while Big Boss' looks bagger and has a separate top and bottom. Big Boss also gets his beard and eyepatch, which would further distinguish him from Solid (assuming Solid was shaved to reflect his MGS1 and 2 appearances). There is more visual variety between Solid Snake and Liquid Snake than Marth and Lucina and Pit and Dark Pit.
Also, would getting David Hayter to do new lines as Big Boss really be a downside? You're getting another round of one of the most iconic performances in gaming. Who cares if two characters on the roster have the same voice given the surrounding circumstances?
Peach in Smash looks fine to me. She's probably got it best when it comes to Mario characters in Smash if I'm being honest.
It's Daisy who looks off to me. Namely her render (although the fact that she's identical to Peach moveset-wise is also a big factor). The top row of her teeth don't show in it, which makes her look off from all her Main series artwork. It's a small detail, but it adds a lot.
First world problem? Absolutely, but regardless I like to occasionally bring up this nittiest of nitpicks.
I honestly really like Peach's Smash design. I like that it has a bit more playfulness and edge to it relative to Peach's regular appearances. It captures that "stubborn but cute" angle that Miyamoto originally wanted for Peach's design well.
I've always felt the biggest change with Smash Peach is how her pupils are larger to the point they touch on the upper and lower corners of her eyes. Almost every other Peach incarnation makes the pupils proportionally smaller so there's a lot more white in her eyes. That design change alone makes the character look a lot different.
As a Peach expert, there's quite a few differences that make her look off in Smash:
The aforementioned more realistic proportions look weird with a cartoony face
Her hair (in Ultimate) lacks realistic detailing and coloring, unlike her dress. This wasn't an issue in Brawl
Her eyelashes aren't 3D, they're "stuck" to her face and look like 6 small eyeliner wings.
She has no bottom lash
Her irises are considerably larger
Finally, and most infuriatingly, her lips are much smaller and less pink.
I don't mind some of these differences, they kinda bring her in line with some of the Smash humans? But her eyes and hair and especially lips should be fixed next game.
It's especially bad because Rosalina whose face looks almost exactly like Peach's got in Smash with her canon Mario design, so it's even weirder now. Daisy's a whole other can of worms, she's kinda "in between".
Agreed. She's not frustratingly meek and pathetic like she is in a lot of Mario games, but she's also not generic girlboss No 398571 that we saw in the film.
Some think it may have been inspired by R. Mika's Flying Peach from Street Fighter. Others think it was actually inspired by Yuri Sakazaki's Big Butt Press given Sakurai's known love for The King of Fighters.
There are a few characters that I think look(ed) a little wierd, but I don't think Peach was one of them. The Mario brothers threw me off back in Brawl, but Brawl has an artstyle that conflicts with half the cast, so that's kinda cheating.
Currently, the characters that look weird to me are:
The Koopalings because their proportions are wrong.
Mega Man because of that stupid baby doll head.
Crafted Yoshi because his skin texture is butt ugly.
Little Mac when you look too close at his model because one of his arms is too big for no discernible reason.
I've always felt the biggest change with Smash Peach is how her pupils are larger to the point they touch on the upper and lower corners of her eyes. Almost every other Peach incarnation makes the pupils proportionally smaller so there's a lot more white in her eyes. That design change alone makes the character look a lot different.
Now that I think about it, I remember Peach giving me weird vibes sometimes in Mario games; Like there were 0 thoughts in that head of hers. I think this might be the reason why.
I remember thinking her (and the other princesses') mouth looked weird until I realized that the lipstick doesn't reach the corners of her lips. I guess I got used to the less pronounced lipstick. lol
Agreed. She's not frustratingly meek and pathetic like she is in a lot of Mario games, but she's also not generic girlboss No 398571 that we saw in the film.
???
Did you even watch the film? She's not a generic girlboss at all, I hate these buzzwords and how comfortable some people are in throwing them around meaninglessly.
Anyways, I'll just say being "meek and pathetic" (whatever that means) hasn't been part of Peach's character since 2017. And even in the roles where she gets kidnapped, there was still substance.
Anyways, yeah, SSB Peach is kinda peak, I love her characterization even though it kinda had a glowdown after Melee. Melee Peach is still the best version.
Peach Bomber probably exists because:
1) Sakurai is a fighting game fan and there's a lot of female characters with butt attacks in fighting games. It's kind of a running gag.
2) Peach's model is very bottom heavy and the long dress doesn't lend itself to a lot of movement below the waist.
3) Peach didn't have that much moveset potential in 2001.
4) It was probably seen as funny or tongue in cheek, seeing as Peach in Melee was initially conceptualized as a pretty comic relief fighter.
Yes, I did. The film where she does Bruce Lee flying kicks.
And before you disagree, the writers themselves confirmed in the DVD disc extras that they specifically went out of their way to change her character so as to 'update' it for a 2020s audience. The writers themselves disagree with your assessment of her character. Don't like it, take it up with them.
Did you even watch the film? She's not a generic girlboss at all, I hate these buzzwords and how comfortable some people are in throwing them around meaninglessly.
I don't think I'd call it "girlboss", but she definitely falls into that kind of trope. Wildstyle comes to mind (though Wildstyle is really cool so that's not really a bad thing).
Honestly of all the characters I'd expect people to be mad about I'd pick Bowser for the mild character assassination. He's generally shown to have been quite kind to his minions, and here he barely seemed to care.
Anyways, I'll just say being "meek and pathetic" (whatever that means) hasn't been part of Peach's character since 2017. And even in the roles where she gets kidnapped, there was still substance.
I think her long running narritive status as being a mcguffin first and foremost has made a lot of people find her incompetent. Hopefully she continues to get roles in which she's allowed to shine so that perception dies out.
Yes, I did. The film where she does Bruce Lee flying kicks and aces the obstacle course no problem. The film where she meets Mario by doing a martial arts takedown on him. The film where she stops Bowser by freezing him with an Ice Flower before Mario has even turned up. The film where she isn't even really kidnapped as she gives herself up willingly.
And before you disagree, the writers themselves explain in the DVD disc extras that they specifically went out of their way to change her character so as to 'update' it for a 2020s audience. Anyone with eyes can see the differences between sickly sweet game Peach and generic snark film Peach.
Your whole response is moot because I didn't deny that she's a strong character in the film or that she doesn't have differences from her game counterpart. I just said "generic girlboss" is a bad, inaccurate, and tired description. She doesn't outshine Mario. She's just a really competent deuteragonist. And Miyamoto even said that this is who Peach was ALWAYS supposed to be from day one. The creator himself stated it's not something they didn't make up haphazardly for the movie, so you can take your anger elsewhere.
Female representation in Mario can totally be criticized don't get me wrong... but where is this attitude towards Pauline, Daisy or Rosalina? Pauline was a helpless damsel for forever until she sang a song, Daisy has 3 main game appearances and is a damsel in distress in 2, and Rosalina can't recover any Power Stars without the help of Mario.. making all of them "meek and pathetic" in some way.
Man, people are just way too harsh on Peach... y'all need to chill, all these characters are great and the damsel trope is dead anyway.
I’m probably in the minority here but I actually really like Peach’s characterization in the Mario movie and prefer it to her portrayal in the mainline games. I just thought it was cool that she was so confident and capable and I found her to be funny. I think it’s good she was able to move past her “damsel in distress” being her main defining feature. I also really like her in the Paper Mario games and the Super Mario Super Show cartoon for similar reasons.
Your whole response is moot because I didn't deny that she's a strong character in the film or that she doesn't have differences from her game counterpart. I just said "generic girlboss" is a bad, inaccurate, and tired description. She doesn't outshine Mario. She's just a really competent deuteragonist. And Miyamoto even said that this is who Peach was ALWAYS supposed to be from day one. The creator himself stated it's not something they didn't make up haphazardly for the movie, so you can take your anger elsewhere.
Female representation in Mario can totally be criticized don't get me wrong... but where is this attitude towards Pauline, Daisy or Rosalina? Pauline was a helpless damsel for forever until she sang a song, Daisy has 3 main game appearances and is a damsel in distress in 2, and Rosalina can't recover any Power Stars without the help of Mario.. making all of them "meek and pathetic" in some way.
Man, people are just way too harsh on Peach... y'all need to chill, all these characters are great and the damsel trope is dead anyway.
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