Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

Likely a bit too impractical to do, but a mode where eliminated players can control certain assist trophies (with the caveat that they can't directly attack the player that summoned them) would be a fun bit of additional chaos to fights.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think the next Smash game should bring back Trophies. They were pretty cool and informative.

Or, if they don’t want to make a bunch of models or rip them straight from their games, they could take the official art PNGs from Spirits and the descriptions from Trophies and make them cards. They could be called Spirit Cards.

 

[Perkilator]

Give Melee another year of development and, if possible, get rid of Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link along with making Ganondorf more unique. Ideally, I'd also like to be able to add the following newcomers:

• Wario
• Scizor
• Ayumi as a semi-clone of Peach and Zelda

Another year of Melee is the main thing, but some other changes I'd make (within reason):

• Switch the roles of Meowth and Jigglypuff; Meowth is part of the OG 12 while Jigglypuff is a Poké Ball summon
• Contract Traveler's Tales to help develop Subspace Emissary, and maybe even appoint them as co-developers of Sm4sh and Ultimate
• Change WoL to a roguelike campaign
• Don't really bother adding a "Board the Platforms" mode to 64
• Make Banjo & Kazooie Fighter #70 instead of Piranha Plant

Honorable mentions:

• Have Rayman be a DLC character in Sm4sh
• Take the 3rd party companies that have playable characters in Ultimate and try to represent more of their franchises through non-playable means like music and Spirits
• In Ultimate, add an option to freely play any song on any stage

Okay, a more in-depth list of changes by game, assuming there were no time constraints

Spoiler: 64

Spoiler: Melee

Spoiler: Brawl

Spoiler: Sm4sh

Spoiler: Ultimate

 

[Wonder Smash]

To me, 3rd party characters are way cooler than Ninty characters. Really big fan of OG Castlevania and Sonic/Sega stuff. 3rd party characters add more spice (edge) to the franchise.

3rd party characters are cool but at the same time, I don't want them to overshadow the series.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Here's something I farted on my Brain:
Does SNK has any character that is considered "Scrimblo Bimblo: The Loveable Scrunko"? As in a cartoony mascot platformer.
I guess is a company without one. I'm not sure if Cool Cool Toon counts.

 

[CatTastic]

3rd party characters are cool but at the same time, I don't want them to overshadow the series.

That's not what I meant. I can agree that there shouldn't be an over saturation of 3rd party characters, since this is a Nintendo thing and all.

My point was that 3rd party characters like Snake, Bayonetta and the Belmonts bring more spice to a colorful sanitized Nintendo world.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That's not what I meant. I can agree that there shouldn't be an over saturation of 3rd party characters, since this is a Nintendo thing and all.

My point was that 3rd party characters like Snake, Bayonetta and the Belmonts bring more spice to a colorful sanitized Nintendo world.

But you also mentioned Sonic, a character that fits right in with Nintendo's style of characters.

You might just mean certain 3rd party characters.

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Either give Melee another six months of development (and some time for Sakurai to breathe) or secure a separate studio for Subspace, so the main team can focus on the rest of the game.

 

[ninjahmos]

But you also mentioned Sonic, a character that fits right in with Nintendo's style of characters.

At this point, it feels like Sonic should just be a mainstay for Smash. Then again, I guess he IS.

Because Nintendo and SEGA are friends.

 

[Ivander]

I like 3rd Parties as much as the next fan, but look at some of the Nintendo series we haven't gotten a playable character for yet.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Others)

Sure, they aren't anywhere near as popular, but asides having the advantage of being easier to add in, look at the amount of variety that Nintendo has. JRPG Protagonists, Scrimblos, Cheerleaders, Mechas and Robots, Magic Dinosaurs, Stand users, War veterans, you name it. And that's part of the beauty of Smash Bros. Seeing these bizarre characters interacting with each other like it's a normal thing.

 

[CatTastic]

But you also mentioned Sonic, a character that fits right in with Nintendo's style of characters.

You might just mean certain 3rd party characters.

No, Sonic may have color and some general similarities but he's no Mario or Nintendo character. It varies, depending on what Sonic game it is.

Simon Belmont and Sonic are the 3rd party characters that I play. I listed Snake and Bayonetta to prove a point with M rated characters, the Belmonts are vampire hunters with controversial religious imagery that used to get censored.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

What I wouldn't give to put Bandana Dee in Smash 4! I don't entirely speak for the fanbase, but there's no good enough reason for his high chances to have bottlenecked the Kirby choices this long, ESPECIALLY when he once had every single validation to get in 10 years ago, and only STARTED to have any real competition for half that time! We should've been discussing what Kirby character comes after his presumed lock, not keep pushing this narrative despite unnecessarily futile efforts!

 

[ninjahmos]

I like 3rd Parties as much as the next fan, but look at some of the Nintendo series we haven't gotten a playable character for yet.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Others)

Sure, they aren't anywhere near as popular, but asides having the advantage of being easier to add in, look at the amount of variety that Nintendo has. JRPG Protagonists, Scrimblos, Cheerleaders, Mechas and Robots, Magic Dinosaurs, Stand users, War veterans, you name it. And that's part of the beauty of Smash Bros. Seeing these bizarre characters interacting with each other like it's a normal thing.

I think the first-party characters I want the most may have to be Takamaru, Saki Amamiya, Mike Jones and Karate Joe.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Contract Traveler's Tales to help develop Subspace Emissary, and maybe even appoint them as co-developers of Sm4sh and Ultimate

Just curious but why Traveler's tales of all studios? They don't strike me as a studio that can really help a lot for a fighting games. Someone like Capcom, Sega or ArcSystems just feels like a more natural fit.

 

[Wonder Smash]

No, Sonic may have color and some general similarities but he's no Mario or Nintendo character. It varies, depending on what Sonic game it is.

Simon Belmont and Sonic are the 3rd party characters that I play. I listed Snake and Bayonetta to prove a point with M rated characters, the Belmonts are vampire hunters with controversial religious imagery that used to get censored.

Sonic really isn't any different from the kind of characters Nintendo makes, no matter how much he varies. Let's be real here.

Also, that's why I said certain 3rd party characters. You got some that are different from Nintendo, like Bayonetta and Snake, then you got some that are very similar to them like Mega Man, Pac-Man, and, of course, Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Also, that's why I said certain 3rd party characters. You got some that are different from Nintendo, like Bayonetta and Snake, then you got some that are very similar to them like Mega Man, Pac-Man, and, of course, Banjo & Kazooie.

Well, Mega Man is more Anime than Scrimblo, but okay.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

If I could change one thing it would be to get rid of -insert character(s) I don't like- and add -insert character(s) I like- instead.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Well, Mega Man is more Anime than Scrimblo, but okay.

What does that have to do with what company made him?

 

[HyperSomari64]

What does that have to do with what company made him?

Sorry, I didn't read correctly.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sorry, I didn't read correctly.

No, you're just randomly and deliberately shoehorning your obsession with "Scrimblos" into a conversation again.

Stop.

It's not even an obsession with the specific characters associated with that label like Crash or Bubsy or whatever, but an obsession with the very CONCEPT of the label.

 

[CatTastic]

Sonic really isn't any different from the kind of characters Nintendo makes, no matter how much he varies. Let's be real here.

Also, that's why I said certain 3rd party characters. You got some that are different from Nintendo, like Bayonetta and Snake, then you got some that are very similar to them like Mega Man, Pac-Man, and, of course, Banjo & Kazooie.

Which Nintendo 1st party E rated game has dialogue comparable to Sonic or the type of music?

There might be characters like Pac-Man who are very similar to Mario and co but who the hell really cares.

You are really nitpicking here because there's people like myself who like 3rd party characters better. People are allowed to have personal preferences.

Are we done yet?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think the next Smash game should bring back Trophies. They were pretty cool and informative.

They were a huge waste of resources that could be better spent modeling more Fighters/Stages/ATs.

They just need to bring back the descriptive text and add them to Spirits.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Which Nintendo 1st party E rated game has dialogue comparable to Sonic or the type of music?

There might be characters like Pac-Man who are very similar to Mario and co but who the hell really cares.

You are really nitpicking here because there's people like myself who like 3rd party characters better. People are allowed to have personal preferences.

Are we done yet?

Games have unique dialogues all the time, What's the big deal about Sonic's being so different?

Also, I'm not sure what's your problem. I just said you might meant certain 3rd party characters, which you keep showing, as you specifically mentioned M-rated characters earlier and even admitted there are some characters that are similar to Nintendo's. So obviously, not all 3rd party characters are the same.

So...this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Here's something I farted on my Brain:
Does SNK has any character that is considered "Scrimblo Bimblo: The Loveable Scrunko"? As in a cartoony mascot platformer.
I guess is a company without one. I'm not sure if Cool Cool Toon counts.

Im pretty sure Metal Slug characters count depending on who's doing the art for any given game.

 

[Golden Icarus]

What I wouldn't give to put Bandana Dee in Smash 4! I don't entirely speak for the fanbase, but there's no good enough reason for his high chances to have bottlenecked the Kirby choices this long, ESPECIALLY when he once had every single validation to get in 10 years ago, and only STARTED to have any real competition for half that time! We should've been discussing what Kirby character comes after his presumed lock, not keep pushing this narrative despite unnecessarily futile efforts!

I love the conviction that the Bandana Dee fanbase has.

Truly I've never been too keen on Dee in Smash. I'm far from against it. It just isn't something that gets me particularly excited. That said, I do love Kirby and you are absolutely right in pointing out that no other characters are really worth considering until Bandana Dee gets in there. If he was added back in Smash 4, then I could very easily see myself pushing hard for Marx or Dark Matter right now.

 

[CatTastic]

Games have unique dialogues all the time, What's the big deal about Sonic's being so different?

Also, I'm not sure what's your problem. I said you might meant certain 3rd party characters, which you keep showing, as you specifically mentioned M-rated characters earlier and even admitted there are some characters that are similar to Nintendo's.

So...this shouldn't be an issue.

You didn't answer my question. What Nintendo 1st party rated E game has dialogue and music comparable to Sonic? I'm not gonna help you with that one.

Yeah I said Pac-Man was similar, what's your point?
Again it sounds like you have a problem with 3rd party characters in this game and being peoples' go to choice, not my problem.

You keep dragging this on, blowing up my notifications. I'm done arguing, have a good one.

 

[Will]

But you also mentioned Sonic, a character that fits right in with Nintendo's style of characters.

You might just mean certain 3rd party characters.

Homie says he like the diversity, why are you trying so hard to disagree and argue about if Sonic is an honorary Nintendo character?

You’re acting like Sonic in Brawl wasn’t a novelty with his insane, newly introduced speed. Even when you tripped, you hardly got punished for it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You didn't answer my question. What Nintendo 1st party game has dialogue and music comparable to Sonic? I'm not gonna help you with that one.

Yeah I said Pac-Man was similar, what's your point?
Again it sounds like you have a problem with 3rd party characters in this game and being peoples' go to choice, not my problem.

You keep dragging this on, blowing up my notifications. I'm done arguing, have a good one.

Didn't ask for your help. And you didn't answer my question either. What's the big deal about Sonic's dialogue being different when so many games (including Nintendo's own) are different from each other?

My point? So if you admit that there are 3rd-party characters like Pac-Man that similar to Nintendo, then why did you make a fuss when I pointed this out? I simply said that you might meant certain 3rd party characters and obviously, he's one that doesn't fit the whole "bring more spice to a colorful sanitized Nintendo world" that you described, so for you to go off like that really didn't make any sense.

Also, if you think I have a problem with 3rd party characters in this game, then I guess can't even see my profile pic or my signature.

Homie says he like the diversity, why are you trying so hard to disagree and argue about if Sonic is an honorary Nintendo character?

You’re acting like Sonic in Brawl wasn’t a novelty with his insane, newly introduced speed. Even when you tripped, you hardly got punished for it.

He...didn't say anything about Sonic's speed. Did you even read his posts?

He was talking how Snake, Bayonetta, and Simon contrast with the colorful Nintendo style and I can see that with them. But Sonic? Umm...no. He's right at home with Nintendo characters. Awesome music and dialogue doesn't change that one bit. Even by his own admission, Sonic is colorful and has some general similarities.

There's nothing wrong with liking diversity. I like that too. But there's also nothing wrong with admitting that there are 3rd party characters that are similar to Nintendo's.

 

[Laniv]

NGL Giygas would be a pretty cool (albeit disturbing) boss for Smash.

It's so bizarre that Giygas has gotten pretty much nothing in Smash Bros outside of a couple of mentions in other characters' descriptions. Not even a spirit or a phase 2 of a Porky boss battle?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's so bizarre that Giygas has gotten pretty much nothing in Smash Bros outside of a couple of mentions in other characters' descriptions. Not even a spirit or a phase 2 of a Porky boss battle?

I could see the Boss Battle being awkward due to how the fight is, and being that Mewtwo was loosely based upon him anyway, there's not really much you can do to make the fight that interesting or stand out(besides essentially copying another Kirby boss pattern. Which wasn't a bad thing, mind you).

However, the lack of a Spirit is really weird. Or just a Trophy. Heck, you already have Mewtwo for the obvious character to represent him(and Giegue).

 

[Will]

He...didn't say anything about Sonic's speed. Did you even read his posts?

Yeah. He likes the diversity from fresh, non-Nintendo franchises like Sonic, Bayonetta, and Simon Belmont.

He was talking how Snake, Bayonetta, and Simon contrast with the colorful Nintendo style and I can see that with them. But Sonic? Umm...no. He's right at home with Nintendo characters. Awesome music and dialogue doesn't change that one bit. Even by his own admission, Sonic is colorful and has some general similarities.

There's nothing wrong with liking diversity. I like that too. But there's also nothing wrong with admitting that there are 3rd party characters that are similar to Nintendo's

This was unrelated, and unnecessary to push because that wasn’t his point. So? It doesn’t change the fact that he’s non-Nintendo, which is the only thing he was talking about.

That's not what I meant. I can agree that there shouldn't be an over saturation of 3rd party characters, since this is a Nintendo thing and all.

My point was that 3rd party characters like Snake, Bayonetta and the Belmonts bring more spice to a colorful sanitized Nintendo world.

No, Sonic may have color and some general similarities but he's no Mario or Nintendo character. It varies, depending on what Sonic game it is.

Did you read them?

 

[dream1ng]

What I wouldn't give to put Bandana Dee in Smash 4! I don't entirely speak for the fanbase, but there's no good enough reason for his high chances to have bottlenecked the Kirby choices this long, ESPECIALLY when he once had every single validation to get in 10 years ago, and only STARTED to have any real competition for half that time! We should've been discussing what Kirby character comes after his presumed lock, not keep pushing this narrative despite unnecessarily futile efforts!

BWD isn't really my cup of tea, but I completely acknowledge he's perfectly qualified for inclusion and would be the logical next rep from Kirby.

However, I disagree with there being no good reason he isn't in yet. For Smash 4, that roster was made in 2012, when BWD didn't have that much more going for him than the token one-off Kirby character. Also, Brawl had just added two original Kirby newcomers, so 4 not having anyone wasn't that strange.

For Ultimate, there were really only three spots in base for an original first-party, excluding the one allocated for a Pokemon. Inkling getting in over BWD makes sense, and Ridley and K. Rool were more popular. Isabelle getting in over BWD is also pretty justifiable. And Kirby isn't the kind of series to get DLC.

That said, BWD is probably the most popular first-party with the least to show for it. I think any other first-party with his level of popularity and probable performance on the ballot would've at least made AT like Waluigi, Isaac, Krystal, Lyn, Skull Kid, Ashley, etc. And to that I attribute Sakurai's neglect of the large portion of the Kirby series he didn't make. Which, imo, is still BWD's biggest obstacle.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah. He likes the diversity from fresh, non-Nintendo franchises like Sonic, Bayonetta, and Simon Belmont.

Same here.

This was unrelated, and unnecessary to push because that wasn’t his point. So? It doesn’t change the fact that he’s non-Nintendo, which is the only thing he was talking about.

Did you read them?

Clearly you didn't. Stop making excuses. You missed the very first post when he mentioned Sonic. Nobody was disputing him for liking 3rd party characters more:

To me, 3rd party characters are way cooler than Ninty characters. Really big fan of OG Castlevania and Sonic/Sega stuff. 3rd party characters add more spice (edge) to the franchise.

But when he gave a little more reasoning for liking 3rd party characters more (just a reminder, I didn't push for a reason):

My point was that 3rd party characters like Snake, Bayonetta and the Belmonts bring more spice to a colorful sanitized Nintendo world.

That was kind of confusing because, like I said, he mentioned Sonic, a colorful character similar to Nintendo's.

But I didn't think it was a big deal:

But you also mentioned Sonic, a character that fits right in with Nintendo's style of characters.

You might just mean certain 3rd party characters.

Which is true, as he went on to say this anyway.

There might be characters like Pac-Man who are very similar to Mario and co but who the hell really cares.

So it should have ended right there. But he still got super defensive for some reason. So don't blame me for dragging it on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would love BWD in myself. But yeah, much like Dixie Kong, there's been some bad timing and situations that just didn't let them get in. Yet. Dixie's other factor is we don't know what Sakurai wants out of her too. Is the team-up mechanic important to him? Does he not have a very clear vision of her now? Etc. Dee might just be a bit of bias, of course.

 

[dream1ng]

I would love BWD in myself. But yeah, much like Dixie Kong, there's been some bad timing and situations that just didn't let them get in. Yet. Dixie's other factor is we don't know what Sakurai wants out of her too. Is the team-up mechanic important to him? Does he not have a very clear vision of her now? Etc. Dee might just be a bit of bias, of course.

I hope the team-up mechanic isn't important to him anymore because I don't see him tethering Diddy at this point and I don't want ****ing Kiddy Kong.

I don't think Sakurai would discard her without the tag mechanic, she's still a fairly major part of her series. It's not like she's Sheik. I just don't think the opportunity has presented itself due to bad timing and getting outclassed. Unless he was just to make her a clone of some sort. And it's good he hasn't, because once DK comes back it seems like she'll be part of it and then getting in as an original character seems probable to me.

DK, for whatever reason, also seems like it has to fight for its content more than some other series. I mean it took until Ultimate just to get an AT.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I hope the team-up mechanic isn't important to him anymore because I don't see him tethering Diddy at this point and I don't want ****ing Kiddy Kong.

I don't think Sakurai would discard her without the tag mechanic, she's still a fairly major part of her series. It's not like she's Sheik. I just don't think the opportunity has presented itself due to bad timing and getting outclassed. Unless he was just to make her a clone of some sort. And it's good he hasn't, because once DK comes back it seems like she'll be part of it and then getting in as an original character seems probable to me.

DK, for whatever reason, also seems like it has to fight for its content more than some other series. I mean it took until Ultimate just to get an AT.

She wouldn't be teaming up with Diddy anyway. That time has passed.

I don't think she'll be discarded, but I honestly think the team-up mechanic would really help her stand out far more. I don't have any issues with the idea and we rarely get them. Plus, later games show it more than "just switching", but actually has the concept more akin to both characters taking action, as well as providing backup(not unlike how Duck Hunt summons a Shooting Character for a move). It'd be better than just an Echo(which seems very unlikely to happen. Not that it can't work, mind you).

"She has to be standalone" is not something I abide by. That's simply an option, not a requirement. It's a little too suspicious she still can't make it in, despite multiple opportunities. Her not being an Echo or an easy Clone(like Dr. Mario, not like how more unique ones like Ganondorf would be) is pretty obvious by now as a non-option too. Otherwise she'd easily be in 4, heh. That said, I want to see the team-up mechanic in general, and that is legitimately notable with her too. I never saw an issue with Kiddy Kong and think it would be great to have him in.

At least Dee can be attributed more to Sakurai bias. You can't really apply that to Dixie. It's a completely different ballgame. Then again, we also have the Toon Sheik thing, so he's kind of an oddball in options, heh. Clones can go anywhere, it seems. Even OC's.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think some fans would be bigger on a Dixie/Kiddy tag mechanic if more fans were keen on Kiddy in general. But given that even the DKC fanbase can pretty lukewarm about him, the lack of an interest in the two of them as a dual or switch duo isn't really surprising.

 

[superprincess]

Aw man... These kind of hypotheticals always anno-

I was gonna ask why you think that but after reading some of the answers, yeah the question is kinda pointless because people don't seem to understand development restraints.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay guys, how do you feel about the fate of the Bayonetta franchise?

Before her inclusion during Smash 4's DLC, we had gotten...

• The original game's release for the X-Box 360 and PS3
• A port of the original game to the Wii U
• Bayonetta 2 for the Wii U

Between Smash 4 and Ultimate's release, we got...

• Switch ports of the first two games
• The announcement of Bayonetta 3 for the Switch

And after Ultimate, we got...

• The release of Bayonetta 3
• The reveal and release of Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon

This looks like a really healthy release schedule for a less popular IP like Bayonetta. It even got a spin off, which is a sign that IPs are healthy. But there's a lot of controversy and developmental issues that happened with Bayonetta 3. There's the whole ordeal with Bayonetta's voice actor and now one of her creator's has left Platinum entirely. Platinum as a whole is doing poorly with several releases making little money and having poor review scores. Even Bayonetta 3 is seen as a step down from the first two (though still good).

Is the Bayonetta franchise okay?

 

[superprincess]

Okay guys, how do you feel about the fate of the Bayonetta franchise?

Before her inclusion during Smash 4's DLC, we had gotten...

• The original game's release for the X-Box 360 and PS3
• A port of the original game to the Wii U
• Bayonetta 2 for the Wii U

Between Smash 4 and Ultimate's release, we got...

• Switch ports of the first two games
• The announcement of Bayonetta 3 for the Switch

And after Ultimate, we got...

• The release of Bayonetta 3
• The reveal and release of Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon

This looks like a really healthy release schedule for a less popular IP like Bayonetta. It even got a spin off, which is a sign that IPs are healthy. But there's a lot of controversy and developmental issues that happened with Bayonetta 3. There's the whole ordeal with Bayonetta's voice actor and now one of her creator's has left Platinum entirely. Platinum as a whole is doing poorly with several releases making little money and having poor review scores. Even Bayonetta 3 is seen as a step down from the first two (though still good).

Is the Bayonetta franchise okay?

Depends. Didn't Hideki Kamiya say (pretty confidently) that he intends to continue the Bayonetta series for a long time? Also, the Hellena Taylor controversy really doesn't matter imo. It's a stain on the series' history for sure but is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I think Bayonetta will continue getting games and they'll probably remain as Nintendo exclusives. And if the series keeps on getting new releases, Bayonetta will stay in Smash. Unless there's some insanely cut down roster in the cards, but I don't think they'd do that, especially right now.