Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Speed Weed]

I want Bub and Bob, as well as generally more Taito content. Let me jam out to Darius Gaiden music during a fight

 

[Stratos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the video game series Gex by Square Enix too?

 

[Garteam]

2B seems like a pretty safe DLC pick so long as Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora return and Geno is already included or isn't being included at all. The only Square character I could really see winning out over her at that point is Tifa.

 

[fogbadge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the video game series Gex by Square Enix too?

they own it but it's not strictly by them

 

[Gengar84]

2B seems like a pretty safe DLC pick so long as Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora return and Geno is already included or isn't being included at all. The only Square character I could really see winning out over her at that point is Tifa.

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

 

[UberPyro64]

Looks like there's an update for that League of Legends fighting game formerly known as Project L. It just got a new update trailer and a new name, 2XKO. I'm not really a fan of the new name and I personally thought Project L sounded cooler but whatever. I'm curious if this game is going to line up with the next Smash where it might make sense to include a character. The next season of Arcane is due out at the end of the year too. Not saying they're a sure thing for Smash but I think it's worth keeping an eye on.

Project L - Official "2XKO" Name Announcement Gameplay Trailer

Viewer Discretion is Advised. A small percentage of people may experience epileptic seizures when exposed to certain visual images, flashing lights or light ...

www.youtube.com

I don't play a ton of traditional fighters and I don't really have any plans to play the main League of Legends game but the gameplay for this one looks pretty cool and I'm a fan of a lot of these character designs. Thanks to silentthunder for bringing this one to my attention.

My pick for a LoL rep would be Vi (I loved Arcane) and I think she could be a very cool character in Smash. So it would be nice if the series started getting some Smash support in the future.

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

I would love to see Terra or Kefka personally. I don't think it's a good idea to add another FFVII rep. But overall, I'd rather them focus on adding new third-party series' instead of focusing on the ones we already have. SE wise, Crono and 2B should come first. And of course Geno, but that's different.

 

[dream1ng]

Two of my most wanted characters right there. Sadly, I've very little faith in their chances.

I'm going to echo the others and say I think you're being overly pessimistic on 2B's chances. I think she's as likely as any potential Square newcomer. She's got prevalence, popularity (globally), and seemingly a motivated creator.

People will raise Geno, and he's got a decent chance too, but given he's such a deep cut, Square/Nintendo have continually passed over him for bigger characters that are just generally more known. Which she is. Plus Geno's not getting in unless it's fan demand, whereas 2B can just get in normally by third-party standards, of which many more spots tend to exist.

But looking into next game, and how stingy Square Enix are known to be, especially with Smash, I’m unsure on her chances, especially if Cloud or Hero don’t make it back into base game.

SE is stingy not in the withholding way where we wouldn't get characters if Nintendo wanted them, but just in the way that they're very particular about how those characters get implemented. So the character being from Square isn't really reason to give them lower odds.

That said, 2B isn't really beholden to that anyway, she seems an exception where she really pops up all over the place. And that's probably because Square defers to Yoko Taro on Nier-related things.

2B seems like a pretty safe DLC pick so long as Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora return and Geno is already included or isn't being included at all. The only Square character I could really see winning out over her at that point is Tifa.

I don't think it's the case where the only way we get new characters from existing companies is if all the vets stick around too. It might not be with Square (though they do have the most, if you include Sora), but I am expecting some third-party turnover somewhere.

 

[Ivander]

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

As much as I hope they do other FF characters, let's be honest. With FFVII Remake/Rebirth being a huge deal right now, Square will want to be taking full advantage of that press, advertisement and whatnot and Tifa is easily the most known and popular FF character behind Cloud and Sephiroth. Especially with ItalyTekken fans lately.

 

[dream1ng]

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

I don't. I think we only have two as it is to satisfy Cloud being in base. I don't think Nintendo will have to compromise for another, I don't think they'll seek another out, and I don't think Square will push for a third, assuming they don't stick both Cloud and Seph in base. Even if Tifa would be cool.

Plus given how many characters other third-party IPs have, and given that even though there'll probably be more DLC than ever before, the spots are still limited, three original FF7 characters seems excessive.

 

[AreJay25]

Tifa's got a better shot at showing up in a certain other Bandai Namco developed fighting game if you ask me.

I don't see a world where she gets in over other Square characters, especially one that's seemingly as easy to acquire as 2B.

 

[Gengar84]

My pick for a LoL rep would be Vi (I loved Arcane) and I think she could be a very cool character in Smash. So it would be nice if the series started getting some Smash support in the future.



I would love to see Terra or Kefka personally. I don't think it's a good idea to add another FFVII rep. But overall, I'd rather them focus on adding new third-party series' instead of focusing on the ones we already have. SE wise, Crono and 2B should come first. And of course Geno, but that's different.

Vi was great in Arcane and probably my favorite character. I think she’d be awesome in Smash but I wonder if she’d play a bit too similarly to Little Mac seeing as they both have a boxing fighting style. Jinx would probably be a bit more unique in the moveset department but I’d be happy either way.

 

[fogbadge]

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

feels like they would

 

[Perkilator]

As much as I hope they do other FF characters, let's be honest. With FFVII Remake/Rebirth being a huge deal right now, Square will want to be taking full advantage of that press, advertisement and whatnot and Tifa is easily the most known and popular FF character behind Cloud and Sephiroth. Especially with ItalyTekken fans lately.

Alternatively, they can also use Aerith if they want to implement Materia.

If you haven't seen "Smash Bros X FFVII Part II" yet, I'm coordinating a project with @pm_pik, @RealSushiiZ,@CSharpM7, and @_incredibleplay, with other collaborators joining later, to bring OG Aerith to Smash, like how Nintendo did with Cloud and Sephiroth! Here's a sneak peek! pic.twitter.com/Dc350dnaQm

— The Hylian (@TheHylian64) February 15, 2024

 

[Noipoi]

Man that last spirit event is just MIA, huh?

 

[dream1ng]

People really focusing on what Square would do/want, but it matters much more what Nintendo would do/want. And Nintendo already has two FF7 characters on deck, feels like they'd go for other IPs.

If the notion is that Square would only cooperate if they got a third FF7 character, that's a level of stingy that even the big "Square is stingy" people haven't before suggested.

Also Rebirth is current right now. Sure there's going to be a part three eventually, but in several years when we're at the stage of Smash 6 where a third FF character would actually drop via DLC, who knows what else they might want to push. Maybe something that doesn't already have two characters.

 

[Garteam]

Do you think they’d go for a third FFVII character? I like Tifa and FFVII but that would still be a bit disappointing to me when they have so many other great games to pick from.

While I would honestly prefer FF's representation in Smash to be more diversified beyond FFVII (and Kingdom Hearts, if you want to count that), it seems pretty clear that Square also sees that as the series at its most popular and evergreen. There's a reason FFVII gets the red carpet treatment for its remakes and crossovers. Tifa and Aerith are also the only remaining FFVII characters to reach the standard of "general gaming icon" that aren't already playable in Smash, with Tifa being the easier of the two to transport to Smash due to her more offensive playstyle.

There might be some concerns about overrepresenting FFVII, but it is such a massive and notable game that it makes sense the powers that be at both Nintendo and Square would want it to get multiple kicks at the can. It's like how Pokemon Red and Blue have an absurd amount of reps despite the greater Pokemon series offering more diversity. You're just unable to beat how iconic the characters from that one super-popular entry are.

In terms of broader Square representation, there's really nothing in their catalog that touches Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Kingdom Hearts (yes, it's legally owned by Disney, but Square is so closely connected to the series that there's no reason to divorce it beyond having nicely separated categories of ownership). I can't see Nintendo jumping through the hoops necessary to get, say, Chrono Trigger when going for another character from those aforementioned series is both logistically simpler and will result in a more recognizable character like Tifa, Slime, or Riku. The exceptions to this are Geno and 2B, but a lot of that has to do with the popularity and notoriety of the individual characters rather than the reputations of their respective series.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t buy the whole story that Sephiroth only got in because Square-Enix was so stingy that it was the only way they’d agree to bring Cloud back. I think Sephiroth got in because he’s a popular and iconic villain and FFVII was starting to regain relevance with the remakes so it made sense for multiple reasons.

 

[UberPyro64]

Vi was great in Arcane and probably my favorite character. I think she’d be awesome in Smash but I wonder if she’d play a bit too similarly to Little Mac seeing as they both have a boxing fighting style. Jinx would probably be a bit more unique in the moveset department but I’d be happy either way.

Based on what she can do in the actual game, I think she could be different enough from Little Mac.

Jinx would be great too of course.

 

[Garteam]

I don’t buy the whole story that Sephiroth only got in because Square-Enix was so stingy that it was the only way they’d agree to bring Cloud back. I think Sephiroth got in because he’s a popular and iconic villain and FFVII was starting to regain relevance with the remakes so it made sense for multiple reasons.

I think it was a little of Columns A and B, with Sephiroth's inclusion being an opportunity to add (by Sakurai's own words) gaming's most famous villain after Bowser and to renegotiate for more substantive FFVII content.

I think it was also an opportunity for Sakurai get his toes wetter with third-party franchises getting unique, secondary characters. You can tell he was playing with this idea through the inclusion of third-party echoes and third-party assists with more substantive states that resemble how fighters operate. With Sephiroth, he could test out how a unique secondary third-party would be received, as Sephiroth is popular enough to stand on his own away from Smash's pre-existing FFVII representation.

One of my biggest predictions for the next Smash is that we'll see a lot more secondary third-parties after Richter, Ken, and now Sephiroth went over very well. I'd honestly be very surprised if we didn't at least get a second Sonic character and a second Mega Man character, with Chun-Li and Alucard not being too far behind in how likely I think they are.

 

[dream1ng]

I don’t buy the whole story that Sephiroth only got in because Square-Enix was so stingy that it was the only way they’d agree to bring Cloud back. I think Sephiroth got in because he’s a popular and iconic villain and FFVII was starting to regain relevance with the remakes so it made sense for multiple reasons.

Not Cloud coming back, but Cloud being in base.

Consider the back-end profit they gave up not having Smash's most popular character as standalone DLC. Square made a massive business concession so Nintendo could tout EiH. Of course they received a lump sum for Cloud, but back-end deals tend to be better for the third-party. So there probably was a provision which counterbalanced their earlier compromise of foregoing Cloud's profit and entitled them to the next best thing.

Consider the zero new content FF7 had in base, including an AT and even Cloud's new FS. Or even just Nomura art for the spirit. Consider Cloud allegedly being the hardest part of achieving EiH. Was Square literally so stingy they wouldn't given them a single new piece of content when they first negotiated, or when negotiating base, did they give them a normal amount of new content, but, as part of the compromise, just have it all arrive as part of the DLC package, as Square prefers?

Sephiroth being chosen as the second FF7 character was probably because he's such a popular and iconic villain, but there may be more to why there was a second character in the first place. There are plenty of third-party series on the roster with other iconic characters. Only FF got a second original one.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it was a little of Columns A and B, with Sephiroth's inclusion being an opportunity to add (by Sakurai's own words) gaming's most famous villain after Bowser and to renegotiate for more substantive FFVII content.

I think it was also an opportunity for Sakurai get his toes wetter with third-party franchises getting unique, secondary characters. You can tell he was playing with this idea through the inclusion of third-party echoes and third-party assists with more substantive states that resemble how fighters operate. With Sephiroth, he could test out how a unique secondary third-party would be received, as Sephiroth is popular enough to stand on his own away from Smash's pre-existing FFVII representation.

One of my biggest predictions for the next Smash is that we'll see a lot more secondary third-parties after Richter, Ken, and now Sephiroth went over very well. I'd honestly be very surprised if we didn't at least get a second Sonic character and a second Mega Man character, with Chun-Li and Alucard not being too far behind in how likely I think they are.

Yeah, that makes sense. I would imagine it’s a lot easier to negotiate for a second character from the same game/series than a completely new one. There’s plenty of other characters from existing third party franchises in Smash I’d love to see. Just to name a few of my personal favorites: Xemnas, Zero, Guile, Knuckles, Vincent Valentine, Makoto Niijima, Jin Kazama, and Alucard. No clue if any of those have any shot but they’re my next favorites from each series.

I’d say that Zero probably has the highest overlap of any character between who I personally want to see the most and who I feel is the most likely. He’s by no means a guarantee but he does have a lot going for him with both a Mii costume and an Assist Trophy already in the game.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

A character from FF9 would be amazing, though it's hard to gauge how popular the other FFs are with how overwhelming 7 is.
It feels like 6 and 9 are particularly beloved too, but they're obviously less current.

I still believe that some combination of 2B, Geno and Tifa/Aerith if they're feeling funky is the most likely outcome for a Square character. Maybe throw in Crono too, due to his game being particularly popular with Nintendo fans, kinda like Banjo.
Aside from Konami with Bomberman, Square feels like the easiest company to predict where Smash is going to go next.

 

[Gengar84]

A character from FF9 would be amazing, though it's hard to gauge how popular the other FFs are with how overwhelming 7 is.
It feels like 6 and 9 are particularly beloved too, but they're obviously less current.

I still believe that some combination of 2B, Geno and Tifa/Aerith if they're feeling funky is the most likely outcome for a Square character. Maybe throw in Crono too, due to his game being particularly popular with Nintendo fans, kinda like Banjo.
Aside from Konami with Bomberman, Square feels like the easiest company to predict where Smash is going to go next.

Final Fantasy 9 might be my favorite game of all time. It’s got some competition from games like Chrono Trigger but it’s definitely up there. I’d absolutely love to see a character from the game in Smash. My favorite character is Princess Garnet/Dagger and I think it would be really cool to see a summoner character in Smash. Vivi’s great too and I like every character but I’d go with Garnet if I could pick just one.

 

[UberPyro64]

Yeah, that makes sense. I would imagine it’s a lot easier to negotiate for a second character from the same game/series than a completely new one. There’s plenty of other characters from existing third party franchises in Smash I’d love to see. Just to name a few of my personal favorites: Xemnas, Zero, Guile, Knuckles, Vincent Valentine, Makoto Niijima, Jin Kazama, and Alucard. No clue if any of those have any shot but they’re my next favorites from each series.

I’d say that Zero probably has the highest overlap of any character between who I personally want to see the most and who I feel is the most likely. He’s by no means a guarantee but he does have a lot going for him with both a Mii costume and an Assist Trophy already in the game.

Idk about Zero. I feel like there are too many Capcom reps ahead of him. Namely an RE character, Dante, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Chun-Li. There are a lot of options that I would say are more likely. Not to say he wouldn't be awesome, but he's probably not a priority compared to other Capcom characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Idk about Zero. I feel like there are too many Capcom reps ahead of him. Namely an RE character, Dante, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Chun-Li. There are a lot of options that I would say are more likely. Not to say he wouldn't be awesome, but he's probably not a priority compared to other Capcom characters.

Personally I think he's less speculated on because he's an AT, even though the lack of AT promos in Smash's DLC shouldn't be relevant when most people assume whatever they're working on is not more DLC for Ultimate.

 

[Gengar84]

Idk about Zero. I feel like there are too many Capcom reps ahead of him. Namely an RE character, Dante, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Chun-Li. There are a lot of options that I would say are more likely. Not to say he wouldn't be awesome, but he's probably not a priority compared to other Capcom characters.

That’s possible. I feel like Zero fits the general gameplay style of Smash better than a Resident Evil character or Phoenix Wright at least. I don’t think that’s all that matters but I do think it’s probably one factor when deciding on a character. I think the fact that he already has content beyond just a spirit helps too. I feel like a lot of people just look at sales to determine who is most likely and not how they’d play. Unconventional characters like Villager and Wii Fit Trainer can work too but I feel like they might be more the exception than the rule. I don’t know any more than anyone else but those are just my thoughts

Either way, I’m just comparing Zero to my other most wanted characters so if he is still unlikely, what does that say about everyone else on my list? Lol. Just as an example, here’s a list of some of my most wanted characters again. I feel like Zero had the highest chance of anyone on this list. Thats all I’m trying to say:

The Battletoads
Magus
Zegram Ghart
Fulgore
Illidan Stormrage
Sarah Kerrigan
Zero
Guile
Sub-Zero
Vi or Jinx
Lu Bu
Xemnas
Alphen and Shionne
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean
Etna
H’aanit
Gengar
Impa (HW)
Jenna Anderson
Nia
Medusa
The Black Knight or Tharja
Nightmare
Joanna Dark
Princess Garnet
Goombella
Bugzzy
Raziel
Death

 

[Wonder Smash]

I got a question; has Nintendo ever created a main character that kind of references them in general?

Examples like Yuki and Ai from Neo Geo Battle Coliseum.

Or a character like Taro Sega from Segagaga.

 

[Louie G.]

I got a question; has Nintendo ever created a main character that kind of references them in general?

Ninten / Ness would be the obvious answer. There’s probably another that I’m forgetting.

Unless you mean like more of a mascot / “essence” of the studio? In which case I don’t think so, not much need when Mario is so unanimously the face of your company anyway I suppose.

 

[Gengar84]

Ninten / Ness would be the obvious answer. There’s probably another that I’m forgetting.

Unless you mean like more of a mascot?

What about Nester from Nintendo Power or Captain N?

 

[Louie G.]

What about Nester from Nintendo Power or Captain N?

I probably wouldn’t count them since they’re largely unofficial as far as like, baseline Nintendo HQ Japan is concerned. But Nester has a bit more claim to fame because he at least gets referenced here and there, and Lark exists.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ninten / Ness would be the obvious answer. There’s probably another that I’m forgetting.

Unless you mean like more of a mascot / “essence” of the studio? In which case I don’t think so, not much need when Mario is so unanimously the face of your company anyway I suppose.

They don't have to be mascots. Just a main character.

Ninten and Ness got the name reference but I don't think they have anything else.

 

[Slime Scholar]

It's unlikely, but if we got another Square character I'd like it to be a Dragon Quest Slime. Sakurai did mention he was prepared to use them if he couldn't get permission for the Hero.

 

[fogbadge]

Ninten / Ness would be the obvious answer. There’s probably another that I’m forgetting.

they weren't even created by nintendo ironically

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I got a question; has Nintendo ever created a main character that kind of references them in general?

There's Diddy's hat but I'm not sure it counts.

 

[Gengar84]

It's unlikely, but if we got another Square character I'd like it to be a Dragon Quest Slime. Sakurai did mention he was prepared to use them if he couldn't get permission for the Hero.

I’d love to see more mooks in general. They tend to have a lot more unique frames than most actual characters. I personally feel like that makes things more interesting and helps Smash’s roster stand out from other fighting games. Slimes are some of the most iconic mooks in gaming so they’d make a lot of sense.

 

[fogbadge]

There's Diddy's hat but I'm not sure it counts.

well it had the rare logo on it at first

 

[Wonder Smash]

There's Diddy's hat but I'm not sure it counts.

I'm talking about even in attacks too.

Though it doesn't seem like Nintendo has made a character like that. Captain N would have been the closest thing to it but...he's not from video games, nor was he created by Nintendo's company in Japan.

 

[HyperSomari64]

well it had the rare logo on it at first

Dixie was the one with the Rare logo.

 

[Gengar84]

Dixie was the one with the Rare logo.

Yeah, it looks like Diddy had the Nintendo logo even back when RARE made the games.

 

[SPEN18]

Ngl, it's that trademark that makes me hope that series like Chibi-Robo, Style Savvy, Pilotwings, etc. aren't truly dead...

I mean, we just got confirmation of a totally NEW Endless Ocean game, so at least there's hope Nintendo won't leave those games to languish or whatever...

I meant to say this earlier but it slipped: seeing Another Code and Endless Ocean come back with Nintendo as the publisher makes it more curious that they didn't publish syn Sophia's Fashion Dreamer and give it the Style Savvy branding. Was already curious, now more so, especially as Style Savvy was doing better numbers than Another Code or Endless Ocean back in the Wii/DS era.