Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Nabbitfan730]

Ifthe Smash experience hinges on being surprised then the experience has to change because with Smash 4 and Ultimate it only strengthens the notion that hype culture has taken over actually playing the game you're getting hyped for.
It's a fighting game, I ain't here to be surprised.

You say as if that's mutually exclusive. You can have great surprises & have worthwhile game as well. Like the series has done for almost 25 years. You may not but you really are the small minority. Surprises and Excitement are in part what makes the Smash series special for most. Those reveal trailers just emphasize

Why go to the movies or buy a DVD, I can wait for some bozo to put it up on Twitter or other less than reputable sites and get it for free?

You say that but theaters these days have dwindling and dwindling in sales and moviegoers to the point that some have closed down for this very 4eason since 2020 with streaming services/online sites.

Every movie is immediately on streaming soon after release. Also i'm pretty sure Artists would be sympathetic on the disappointment on having their work being revealed before time. Like the other poster said, so many expressed the distain for leaks. Sakurai isn't the only one here.

See this is actually 100% understandable and actually reasonable but unfortunately it's not the thing that got Sakurai going "no cutscenes"
It's also not really a side mode when it's one of the major things you're advertising about your game. Neither WoL or SSE are side modes.

He stated that reasoning as well in his Ultimate Video.

Also the major things advertised about the game are the Characters. Stages, Gameplay features and the Main Smash Multiplayer. Online to a lesser extent. SSE and WoL are by definition side modes.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Best way to do more Interactions and Singleplayer is simple.

• Add “End of Match Thought Bubbles” to the Results Screen. Each of these showing what everyone is thinking of whoever got Second Place. Also make the Reveal Trailers all a part of a Bigger Story that could eventually lead to a 30 Minute Finale. That sounds fun tbh.
• Singleplayer, I feel, should pretty much just be a Metroidvania at the moment. Go through a Maze warning more and more Characters while also not dealing with making Levels too easy due to how it’s one Big Level. Though ripping off NASB2 and doing a Rougelite could be fun too.

Now you have both More Interactions and Good Singleplayer. It’s genius I tell you Genius!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think Darth meant for specifically Subspace. And even then I don't think it's quite true.

No, I meant in general. I think the trailer and box art were things Nintendo did against Sakurai's intentions.

And, frankly, they were right to do it.

 

[Perkilator]

Time for the obligatory Smash reboot roster (the base roster, anyway)

My 53-fighter reboot roster using the template provided here:
View attachment 380557

Something I'd like to point out is that certain slots have transforming characters.

• Samus / Zero Suit Samus share one slot
• Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur share one slot via the Pokémon Trainer
• Pyra and Mythra share one slot
• Noah and Mio share one slot
• All three Mii Fighter classes (Brawler, Swordfighter and Gunner) share one slot via the Mii button

Which bumps the base roster to even 60 fighters in total.

Characters I wanted to include but scrapped due to the limited space:

• Bowser Jr.
• Rosalina & Luma
• Sheik
• Wolf
• The newest Pokémon and Fire Emblem character
• Byleth
• Lucas
• R.O.B.
• Duck Hunt
• Snake
• Simon
• Dr. Eggman
• Chun-Li
• Cloud
• Banjo & Kazooie
• Terry
• Steve
• Sora
• More newcomers from different 1st and 3rd party universes, both old and new

I know I’m late to the party but I wanted to take some time figuring out the right programs to make this (for those wondering, I used Pixlr X and IMG Online)

 

[SPEN18]

I feel like SSE's platforming gets more criticism than is warranted. They obviously weren't going to be able to balance everything perfectly like a dedicated platformer would be able to, so they (I think rightly) went for casual, exploration-focused gameplay with it (and yes, it can still be oriented around exploration while still being mostly linear). The gameplay takes obvious cues from Sakurai's experience with Kirby, another more casual-oriented platformer. Overall, SSE enhanced the strength of the crossover appeal, provided more opportunity for character interactions, and helped sell the idea of all Brawl's characters existing in the same world by providing shared environments larger than would be possible with VS stages.
There are clear steps forward they could take like improving the level design, expanding the sense of exploration by making it less linear, and enhancing the variety of the stages and enemies. But the original SSE was still good for its time; it may be one of those modes that seems less impressive when looking back at it with a more critical eye, but I appreciate what it was able to do at that stage of Smash's growth as a series.

Going forward, I'd love another full-on story mode with exploratory platforming and cutscenes and all, though I have long accepted that it is probably not going to be feasible without turning away from the series' identity and core direction of a premier VS mode with a robust selection of fighters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

SSE is wonderful and I want something like it again. But it would probably work best as a giant DLC ordeal. With additional content with new characters. The idea is amazing. Could take a few cues from Smash Run and Melee Adventure Mode, Boss Battles, coupled with Event Matches. Maybe even a sort of RPG like system. Pure gold!

I'd take this as the sole addition to a Smash Ultimate DX in a heartbeat. Throw in some new characters and we're ALL GOOD.

Make me executive already. **** am down.

 

[Soy_Man]

Time for the obligatory Smash reboot roster (the base roster, anyway)

I know I’m late to the party but I wanted to take some time figuring out the right programs to make this (for those wondering, I used Pixlr X and IMG Online)

You guys aren't being realistic when you construct a hypothetical Smash Reboot and the base roster maintains like 60% of the roster Ultimate had at the end of it's life cycle. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

 

[RileyXY1]

You guys aren't being realistic when you construct a hypothetical Smash Reboot and the base roster maintains like 60% of the roster Ultimate had at the end of it's life cycle. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

I think that a "reboot" will feature a massive cutdown of the roster. And I think that this is the most likely direction for the series, especially if Sakurai doesn't even return as the director for the new entry.

 

[RodNutTakin]

they're not going to take 20 more years to get back to 80 fighters again

 

[Speed Weed]

Time for the obligatory Smash reboot roster (the base roster, anyway)

I know I’m late to the party but I wanted to take some time figuring out the right programs to make this (for those wondering, I used Pixlr X and IMG Online)

6 newcomers, none from new series' and none from third-parties? That feels way too conservative for a supposed "reboot" roster

 

[Louie G.]

Time for the obligatory Smash reboot roster (the base roster, anyway)

Not to dismiss your entire roster but there is absolutely no situation where Isabelle doesn't return. She is one of Nintendo's most prominent mascots and synonymous with the marketing of her series and the modern Nintendo brand. Next to Inkling she is their most important character made in the last decade-ish.

If similarities to Villager are a concern, then they would sooner differentiate her further than outright cut her or cut Villager instead. Certainly if Falco and Daisy can return there's no reason for Isabelle to be hindered for that reason.

I feel like a major flaw of this roster is that several of our existing "modern" Nintendo picks are sold short - Isabelle, Min Min, Byleth are cut - in favor of VERY modern flavor of the week characters like Raven Beak or Xeno 3 protags who are unlikely to be in the conversation in five years time. At the very least I think you'd have been better off prioritizing a brand new IP like Ring Fit Adventure, but in my opinion ARMS should remain too. It feels like those efforts are being made to be with the times but for those steps forward you're still taking a couple step backs too.

Very upset to see Little Mac missing as well but given some of the other cuts you had to make I can't fight too hard about that one.

 

[fogbadge]

Not to dismiss your entire roster but there is absolutely no situation where Isabelle doesn't return. She is one of Nintendo's most prominent mascots and synonymous with the marketing of her series and the modern Nintendo brand. Next to Inkling she is their most important character made in the last decade-ish.

If similarities to Villager are a concern, then they would sooner differentiate her further than outright cut her or cut Villager instead. Certainly if Falco and Daisy can return there's no reason for Isabelle to be hindered for that reason.

I feel like a major flaw of this roster is that several of our existing "modern" Nintendo picks are sold short - Isabelle, Min Min, Byleth are cut - in favor of VERY modern flavor of the week characters like Raven Beak or Xeno 3 protags who are unlikely to be in the conversation in five years time. At the very least I think you'd have been better off prioritizing a brand new IP like Ring Fit Adventure, but in my opinion ARMS should remain too. It feels like those efforts are being made to be with the times but for those steps forward you're still taking a couple step backs too.

Very upset to see Little Mac missing as well but given some of the other cuts you had to make I can't fight too hard about that one.

the only reason I won’t be talking about Noah is that ultimate kinda ruined supporting xenoblade characters for me. you’re completely right about Isabelle

 

[Gengar84]

SSE is wonderful and I want something like it again. But it would probably work best as a giant DLC ordeal. With additional content with new characters. The idea is amazing. Could take a few cues from Smash Run and Melee Adventure Mode, Boss Battles, coupled with Event Matches. Maybe even a sort of RPG like system. Pure gold!

I'd take this as the sole addition to a Smash Ultimate DX in a heartbeat. Throw in some new characters and we're ALL GOOD.

Make me executive already. **** am down.

I agree. I think I’d pay full price for Ultimate Deluxe even if all they added was just a fully fleshed out Subspace Emissary mode and restarted the fighters passes. The lack of good single player and co-op modes are the main thing keeping Ultimate from truly living up to its name and SSE was my favorite mode ever.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I have yet another reason Kiryu should be in the next Smash.

Gaiden just hit us with some absolute bangers:

 

[Perkilator]

I have yet another reason Kiryu should be in the next Smash.

Gaiden just hit us with some absolute bangers:

Yeah, Twilight of the Gods was one of my favorite songs!

Look I wish we got Celica alright

 

[DarthEnderX]

Make me executive already.

So you can waste a ton of development on a mode that kinda sucked instead of adding more characters? Pass.

ou guys aren't being realistic when you construct a hypothetical Smash Reboot and the base roster maintains like 60% of the roster Ultimate had at the end of it's life cycle.

Good point. No reboot it is!

The lack of good single player and co-op modes are the main thing keeping Ultimate from truly living up to its name and SSE was my favorite mode ever.

SSE wasn't good though. Gameplaywise it wasn't good. And the story veers into cringey Kingdom Hearts-esque crap.

 

[HyperSomari64]

This "Reboot vs. Continuing" discourse remind me from a fairly-recently cancelled Mortal Kombat cartoon for young girls. There were two factions that wanted to Reset and Kontinue respectively.

At least here (Post-Ultimate speculation) there is no School AU that decides the fate of Smash as a franchise

 

[DarthEnderX]

This "Reboot vs. Continuing" discourse remind me from a fairly-recently cancelled Mortal Kombat cartoon for young girls.

bottomtext

 

[fogbadge]

So you can waste a ton of development on a mode that kinda sucked instead of adding more characters? Pass.

Good point. No reboot it is!

SSE wasn't good though. Gameplaywise it wasn't good. And the story veers into cringey Kingdom Hearts-esque crap.

someone who’s user name comes from star wars really shouldn’t be throwing shade at other stories

 

[Gengar84]

So you can waste a ton of development on a mode that kinda sucked instead of adding more characters? Pass.

Good point. No reboot it is!

SSE wasn't good though. Gameplaywise it wasn't good. And the story veers into cringey Kingdom Hearts-esque crap.

It definitely had its issues but I still really enjoyed it despite those. Even if the gameplay wasn’t perfect, it was still a great way for me to play co-op with my brother and friend. The story was basic but serviceable. It was just really cool seeing the characters actually interact in some way. Finally, just because it didn’t quite live up to its potential the first time around doesn’t mean it can’t in the future. The basic premise was awesome and still has a ton of potential in my opinion. I’d love to see Sakurai go back and try to improve the mode instead of drop it altogether.

 

[RileyXY1]

We'll only ever get an SSE-style adventure mode again if they cut down the roster size massively, like say under 40 fighters.

 

[Gengar84]

We'll only ever get an SSE-style adventure mode again if they cut down the roster size massively, like say under 40 fighters.

I think the other possible scenarios are either a straight port where all the resources went to the SSE mode instead of base game newcomers. Characters could then be added later as DLC or they save SSE for an ambitious DLC campaign.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

We'll only ever get an SSE-style adventure mode again if they cut down the roster size massively, like say under 40 fighters.

Not gonna lie pretty much every post i see from you kinda feels like:

"There will be tons of cuts"
Refuses to elaborate further
Leaves.

lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

someone who’s user name comes from star wars really shouldn’t be throwing shade at other stories

At least you CAN find good stories somewhere in the SW franchise.

We'll only ever get an SSE-style adventure mode again if they cut down the roster size massively, like say under 40 fighters.

I decline to accept that trade.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Actually made to be first for these things. Anyways, thoughts on the choices?

The Game Awards 2023 GOTY nominees:

-Alan Wake 2
-Baldur's Gate 3
-Spider-Man 2
-Resident Evil 4
-Super Mario Bros. Wonder
-Zelda Tears of the Kingdomhttps://t.co/A7KrENLLpo pic.twitter.com/6ToggdMh5a

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 13, 2023

 

[HyperSomari64]

At least you CAN find good stories somewhere in the SW franchise.

Not a trade worth making.

Unless it's written by Jay-Jay the Jet Plane ,

 

[Wonder Smash]

I do admit that I like seeing the characters interact like that in the cutscenes. You don't see that often in Nintendo games.

 

[fogbadge]

At least you CAN find good stories somewhere in the SW franchise.

no you can’t

 

[Nabbitfan730]

EP1-6 would easily beg to differ.

Either way, this is off-topic. GOTY Nominees anyone?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Actually made to be first for these things. Anyways, thoughts on the choices?

The Game Awards 2023 GOTY nominees:

-Alan Wake 2
-Baldur's Gate 3
-Spider-Man 2
-Resident Evil 4
-Super Mario Bros. Wonder
-Zelda Tears of the Kingdomhttps://t.co/A7KrENLLpo pic.twitter.com/6ToggdMh5a

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 13, 2023

Whoever made the most money wins.

 

[Sucumbio]

I mean yeah you could reinvent the wheel but why ... I want to plug it up and unlock everyone and then go online and main Ike. The journey is 30 min to an hour before I be like wait who's left to unlock? Oh that's cool I don't like him anyway (whatever fans cry Nintendo hates tears idea erases now). So I don't expect some genre bent mash up more a sleeker output, more obvious ADA "bells and whistles" etc .. but at it's core Smash won't change it's been the same all along just in a different wrapper and at different tempos.

 

[Wonder Smash]

With the way Brawl described SSE, it made it seem like it was not only a mode but also another game. Like, a game within a game.

So how about this; if they do make another SSE, what if it was it's own game, separate from the main Smash fighting game? That way, maybe there won't be any cuts or anything that might effect the development of the main game?

 

[HyperSomari64]

no you can’t

Bro forgor the Legends line of formely canon lore exists.
Oh, what about K.O.T.O.R. and Jedi Academy?

 

[fogbadge]

EP1-6 would easily beg to differ.

Either way, this is off-topic. GOTY Nominees anyone?

they can beg to differ all they want won’t change anything

anyway as for the goty well naturally my vote goes to Zelda

Bro forgor the Legends line of formely canon lore exists.
Oh, what about K.O.T.O.R. and Jedi Academy?

You lost me

 

[Ivander]

Actually made to be first for these things. Anyways, thoughts on the choices?

The Game Awards 2023 GOTY nominees:

-Alan Wake 2
-Baldur's Gate 3
-Spider-Man 2
-Resident Evil 4
-Super Mario Bros. Wonder
-Zelda Tears of the Kingdomhttps://t.co/A7KrENLLpo pic.twitter.com/6ToggdMh5a

— Wario64 (@Wario64) November 13, 2023

I haven't gotten Super Mario Bros. Wonder yet, so I can't really say anything about it.

I do want either Balder's Gate 3 or Tears of the Kingdom to win.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not gonna lie pretty much every post i see from you kinda feels like:

"There will be tons of cuts"
Refuses to elaborate further
Leaves.

lol

There’s just no way to keep the series going otherwise. A port is probably not gonna happen due to licensing hell and the Switch 2 possibly having backwards compatibility, and an expansion would just make the balancing problems even worse.

 

[Schnee117]

There’s just no way to keep the series going otherwise. A port is probably not gonna happen due to licensing hell and the Switch 2 possibly having backwards compatibility, and an expansion would just make the balancing problems even worse.

Okay but they're also not gonna do an extreme amount of cuts.
They'll likely be more substantial than we've had before but they're not gonna go so far as to Thanos snap it.

 

[Gengar84]

Okay but they're also not gonna do an extreme amount of cuts.
They'll likely be more substantial than we've had before but they're not gonna go so far as to Thanos snap it.

I think you’re right and really hope so but they did Thanos snap Pokémon starting with Gen 8 so I’m not totally ruling out the possibility. I think all the excuses for snapping Pokémon’s roster are also technically true for Smash but on a smaller scale.

 

[Perkilator]

I think Delzethin’s proposed 53-fighter roster is a reasonable size for a soft reboot.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Delzethin’s proposed 53-fighter roster is a reasonable size for a soft reboot.

He makes high quality videos but I highly disagree with his roster selection. I don’t think I can ever accept cutting Ganondorf and replacing Metaknight for Bandana Dee that he proposed in the lead up to Ultimate. He does make some great moveset concept videos though.