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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Arcanir

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I think one major step that should be done next game to help promote more interactions is the voice acting. Smash, and especially Ultimate, has a habit of cutting corners when it comes to its voiced dialogue and that has led to a number of characters feeling outdated/out of place as they're constantly reusing clips that can be as old as two decades, lack of unionized preventing some VAs from returning, or just not dubbing the character in general. That lack of uniformity can mean that a character like Lucina, who should say something to Chrom, says nothing to him as her Smash 4 clips are reused. That's something that shouldn't be a constant issue when we have multiple characters, many from the same series, that could have interactions with each other but don't due to shortcuts.
 

Stratos

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I honestly see Smash as a museum in fighting-party-game format first, and a crossover second.
To think that first I saw it as a crossover in the first Super Smash Bros., but from Super Smash Bros. Melee and then I saw it as a museum in fighting-party-game format.
 

CapitaineCrash

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How about we talk about Assist Trophies? Most assist trophies are main characters of unrepresented franchises or secondary characters from represented franchises, but many fall into a third group. Regular enemies.

As of now, Smash only has 12.

Burrowing Snagret (Pikmin)
Chain Chomp (Super Mario)
Chef Kawasaki (Kirby)
Ghosts (Pac-Man)
Hammer Bro (Super Mario)
Klaptrap (Donkey Kong)
Knuckle Joe (Kirby)
Lakitu and Spinies (Super Mario)
Metroid (Metroid)
Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
Starman (Earthbound)
Thwomp (Super Mario)

Lakitu and Spinies got cut sadly.


What are some regular enemies you think would make fun assist trophies?
The EMMI from Metroid dread could be fun.


Cheaping out, or freaking out? They were never really comfortable with dialogues and stories.
Who is "they"? Sakurai wrote the scenario for Kid icarus uprising so clearly he's confortable with story and dialogues. Besides, Brawl had a story and World of light intro cutscenes have dialogues. The problem is that it's so little and there's no real interactions, characters are just standing there and dying one by one. Even Shulk who come from a very heavy dialogue game doesn't say a word despite having a vision of what was coming.
 

SPEN18

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Hey, I can miss trophies while still being at peace with why they're gone.

Also, the functionality doesn't necessarily make "Spirits" better than trophies, as you could easily give the same functionality to trophies; it would just be a 3D model instead of a PNG. Technically you could do trophies without any flavor text, too, however much people would like that (just at least list the source game(s) like they've done before).

The advantage of "Spirits" or their cousins the stickers is simply getting more of them for less work. And to be fair, for some characters the collectibles are their only representation whatsoever, so having more included is a big plus for those types who wouldn't make it even as an AT or costume. It's just a balance between the collectibles feeling substantive/rewarding and doling out enough representation to each franchise.

A random compromising idea would be to keep them as PNGs, BUT hire some artists to make original art for each one rather than just ripping art from the source materials. I have no idea if this would be too expensive or too much of a hassle to get approved by all the respective rights holders, but again it's just an idea.
 

Lenidem

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The EMMI from Metroid dread could be fun.




Who is "they"? Sakurai wrote the scenario for Kid icarus uprising so clearly he's confortable with story and dialogues. Besides, Brawl had a story and World of light intro cutscenes have dialogues. The problem is that it's so little and there's no real interactions, characters are just standing there and dying one by one. Even Shulk who come from a very heavy dialogue game doesn't say a word despite having a vision of what was coming.
From the message I was quoting, "they" meant "Nintendo". Agree with the rest.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Nah. What character interaction Smash has attempted to do in the past has usually been some Kingdom Hearts-level cringe.

I get the exact amount of character interaction I want from Ultimate's cinematic character reveal trailers.
Wdym by KH-level cringe? Sora getting into Smash type trailers or like the Adventure Modes?



I honestly see Smash as a museum in fighting-party-game format first, and a crossover second.
Aren't they mostly the same thing?
 

Swamp Sensei

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I think a real easy and effective compromise would be to being both trophies and spirits back.

Okay hear me out.

Give each of the playable fighters viewable trophies, complete with derailed descriptions. This allows people to learn more about who the fighters are while still working within the context of the World of Light.

The rest of the represented characters can exist through spirits.

Giving every spirit a description sounds like a nightmare. Giving every fighter one, sounds very doable.
 

Ivander

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I think a real easy and effective compromise would be to being both trophies and spirits back.

Okay hear me out.

Give each of the playable fighters viewable trophies, complete with derailed descriptions. This allows people to learn more about who the fighters are while still working within the context of the World of Light.

The rest of the represented characters can exist through spirits.

Giving every spirit a description sounds like a nightmare. Giving every fighter one, sounds very doable.
I don't think a description would be too bad for spirits as long as the description is short, but enough for details. Like:
Mario:
"Hero of the Mushroom Kingdom. He is constantly saving Peach from Bowser's clutches. He also used to do plumbing in his early days."
Luigi:
"The brother of Mario. He's a bit more timid than his brother, but is still capable on his own. He often works together with his brother on many adventures."
Marth:
"Prince of the Kingdom of Altea. Exiled from his homeland after an attack by the empire of Dolhr, he and his followers work together to save their kingdom and defeat the dragon Medeus."
 

SPEN18

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So; How many Mario characters will be added to the next Smash game, if it builds on Ultimate?
Well, if it does not build on Ult then I would expect at least one. There are several candidates, including Waluigi, Toad, or a Luigi's Mansion rep. Two wouldn't be out of the question actually but not guaranteed.

If the next game is just Ult+add-ons then I could see a Mario newcomer not even happening at all since newcomer slots would be very limited in general, though we could still get, for example, Waluigi as a "fan pick."
 

Wonder Smash

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You know, on that list of themes I'd like for them to add, I forgot to mention some Punch-Out!! themes. More from the Wii game and the ones from Super Punch-Out!!. I was really hoping they would more of those in Ultimate.

I also think they should remix the Unknown World theme from Dragon Quest. The original NES versions are always the best versions and I would like a fighting-oriented version of it for Smash.
 

smashkirby

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I just miss trophies in general tbh
Honestly as much as I miss trophies, the only way I see them coming back is in a very limited capacity. Something like giving the fighters each a trophy and a little play info, similar to what they find in Smash 64. Trophies are a massive amount of localization work not even counting the need to make custom assets sometimes. They had to make over 1000 trophy translations in Smash 4 across both games for instance. That’s a ton of work for an admittedly small part of the game.
I prefer the Spirits to be honest. They actually do stuff and, more importantly, I know the model developers spent their time on more important things instead.

That said, it WOULD be nice if Spirits had text blurbs with them like Trophies did.
Literally all they had to do was give me the flavor text and I think all Smash fans would’ve been perfectly okay with the replacements. They’re honestly hilarious and even say some things that aren’t explicitly described in canon of their universes, like the 1-Up Mushroom saying it births an entirely new Mario doppelgänger, implying the original Mario perished a long long time ago.

Who even writes the flavor text? Is it Sakurai?:174:
While I WOULD like to see what every character would look like in 3D, as long Spirits could have those blurbs that go into detail about who they are, I wouldn't mind (much) if Spirits were here to stay.

I feel like the fanbase should really be pushing harder for more character interaction. It's such a basic aspect of most fighting games that is completely absent in Smash, save for the very small amount of characters with one or two specific custom victory quotes (and even then, there's Simon who just truncates "I vanquish the darkness" to just "the darkness..." when facing certain characters).

Like, even NASB had this to an extent in arcade mode, even with the absolutely baffling executive mandate that the game couldn't write new dialogue and had to use existing quotes from the show. Playstation All-Stars had full on memorable, albeit silly, rivalry cutscenes for the arcade mode. And Multiversus had newly recorded custom crossover dialogue for huge portions of the cast, despite being a free to play game.

There's absolutely no reason that Smash, with its behemoth of a budget, shouldn't have this. Obviously if certain third parties wanted to opt out that would be one thing, but there's no real excuse for the first party cast at least. Smash advertises itself as the ultimate crossover, but refuses to budge on this extremely basic aspect of such a crossover...the opening cutscene for World of Light is like the lone example outside of one off codec instances like the Slippy codec in Brawl, the Chrom guidance in 4, and the Alucard guidance in Ultimate.

People love to just write it off with the oft-repeated "Shulk monologues only for the response to be pika pika," but the vast majority of Smash's cast is capable of speech through either spoken dialogue or text boxes. It's a non issue. The only issue is Nintendo cheaping out.
Oh, I would give ANYTHING to see this. I think some of you have already pointed this out, but these days (ESPECIALLY once we hit Smash 4) it feels as if the crossover aspect of Smash Bros. (outside of character reveal trailers) has been watered down considerably. I was honestly hoping Ultimate would come with pre-battle dialogue or something.

As you've just said, the fact that Lucina (and both versions of Robin, I think) don't say anything specific to Chrom after a match is REALLY jarring. I also feel the same way in regards to Pit after a match against Palutena and Dark Pit.
 

NapoleonDos

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So; How many Mario characters will be added to the next Smash game, if it builds on Ultimate?
I'm going to say we get two- however many Mario movies and theme park additions come out between now and the next game, Nintendo is hitting hard on the expansion of media. I think Smash will capitalize on this with at least two new Mario characters (my guesses at this time would be Kamek and Toad).
 

Will

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So; How many Mario characters will be added to the next Smash game, if it builds on Ultimate?
Waluigi time is upon us. :waluigirose:

If we want to be ambitious, 3, imo. Id personally do Waluigi, Captain Toad and Toadette, and Paper Mario. Geno would be cool too if they could snag the rights.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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I think one major step that should be done next game to help promote more interactions is the voice acting. Smash, and especially Ultimate, has a habit of cutting corners when it comes to its voiced dialogue and that has led to a number of characters feeling outdated/out of place as they're constantly reusing clips that can be as old as two decades, lack of unionized preventing some VAs from returning, or just not dubbing the character in general. That lack of uniformity can mean that a character like Lucina, who should say something to Chrom, says nothing to him as her Smash 4 clips are reused. That's something that shouldn't be a constant issue when we have multiple characters, many from the same series, that could have interactions with each other but don't due to shortcuts.
And then you have characters like Megaman who despite being able to speak just dont for some stupid reason.

Nah. What character interaction Smash has attempted to do in the past has usually been some Kingdom Hearts-level cringe.
I feel like that just comes with the territory when you have a crossover game with character Interactions.
 

Lenidem

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As for Mario characters, I would like : Waluigi, Toad/Toadette/Captain Toad, and E. Gadd. (I never played any Paper Mario, so I have no bound with this character.)
 

Gengar84

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i hope ganondorf looks like that in the next smash
His design in Ultimate is my favorite version of the character followed by Hyrule Warriors. I’m hoping he either stays the same or has alts for each of his various designs. I’d love to see that with other characters as well.

As for Mario, my number one most wanted character is either a basic Goomba or Goombella. I’d also love to see Wart from SMB2 make a return to the series through a playable character in Smash.
 
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fogbadge

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His design in Ultimate is my favorite version of the character followed by Hyrule Warriors. I’m hoping he either stays the same or has alts for each of his various designs. I’d love to see that with other characters as well.

As for Mario, my number one most wanted character is either a basic Goomba or Goombella. I’d also love to see Wart from SMB2 make a return to the series through a playable character in Smash.
that would be fun
 

Dan Quixote

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idk I kinda liked the Ultimate route of making the Triforce trio have designs from different games. It felt more special (and like more of a crossover) than the previous Smash games where they always had to match. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Smash takes long enough that there's a whole new game for Link to pull his design from, which would free up TotK to use the Ganondorf design.

(The real solution, of course, is to put pig Ganon in Smash)
 

Gengar84

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I feel like they should just give us alts for all the major incarnations of each of the Triforce wielders. That way everyone gets what they want no matter what your favorite version is. The only real exception is Wind Waker because the characters tend to have very different proportions so it would be hard to fit them on the same skeleton. WW Ganondorf should still work as he’s already been an alt in Hyrule Warriors.

I think could use more actual alts in general rather than almost everything being just a palate swap. Maybe they could even give us a custom color editor so we can make our own palate swaps. I’ve seen that done in Soul Calibur, Wariors Orochi, and Disgaea so it’s not unheard of.
 
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Diddy Kong

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i hope ganondorf looks like that in the next smash
I'm honestly thinking they gonna use this design to rebuild him. And Zelda same way. These characters needed their revamp two Smash games prior.

Also the new Champions in action hmm...? I still sort of hope for an appearance of a young Impa.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I think could use more actual alts in general rather than almost everything being just a palate swap. Maybe they could even give us a custom color editor so we can make our own palate swaps. I’ve seen that done in Soul Calibur, Wariors Orochi, and Disgaea so it’s not unheard of.
I think the only reason thats not a thing is because of companies like Game freak, Sega and Disney, who ar particular about how their characters looks.
 

Ivander

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I think could use more actual alts in general rather than almost everything being just a palate swap. Maybe they could even give us a custom color editor so we can make our own palate swaps. I’ve seen that done in Soul Calibur, Wariors Orochi, and Disgaea so it’s not unheard of.
It's not, but there could be copyright issues with doing a Custom color editor, considering Sonic's colors are almost always a shade of blue and Pac-Man's colors are very limited aside from around his gloves and shoes. Then there's the characters who have multiple characters in them, like Pyra/Mythra and Pokemon Trainer.

It would be cool and it'd go great with the Spirit system where a characters' colors could be edited to resemble their Spirit, but it's something I'm not expecting to happen so easily.

Also, it's fantastic to see other characters, including the Champions, actually fighting alongside Link. Can't wait to play Tears of the Kingdom when it comes out.
 

Gengar84

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They could always disable the color editing feature for certain characters whose developers don’t want something like that. It would at least be a fun option for first party characters in my opinion.
 

Arcanir

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yep. though i noticed teba has been replaced by his son
Teba is still around it seems, if you look closely at the scene of Sidon and Riju running you can see him run across the front briefly. I'm guessing what's going to happen is that his son will be involved in certain missions while he'll still play a major role in story events like the other ssuccessors.
 
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