Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[StrangeKitten]

how about we talk about toad for while? we never talk about toad any more

Is it a crime that Toad isn't playable yet? No. Should it be? Yes.

I'm being hyperbolic of course, but the point is, Toad without question should be a playable fighter. I get why they made him the way they did in Melee - it only had around a year of development time, and a Toad makes sense as Peach's counter because they're her bodyguards. They probably wanted to include Toad in some way, to complete the main Mario cast, so having him be the counter meant they only had to do one simple animation for him. But this absolutely should have been rectified in either Brawl or Smash 4, which had development cycles on the longer side. I don't think it would be confusing to keep Peach's counter the way it is and have Toad as a separate character, but if they thought it would be, they could change her counter to just be a mushroom or something. And if they can give movesets to characters like Piranha Plant and ROB, they can give Toad a moveset. He could be a simple brawler, lighter than most but with a very good recovery using the flying carpet, with a unique twist in that he's part mushroom, so his spores could have various effects should he pull off his spore move(s). Alternatively, they could go all-out and make him the wacky character of the game, incorporating a bunch of stuff from Mario Party. Those are just a couple of ideas off the top of my head.

Since sonic was mentioned a few posts ago, what route should they go with in terms of adding more content to smash? As far as I remember, there was no clear frontrunner, but several picks that were all viable options. Same goes for stages.

Sonic absolutely needs more content. Unless I missed something on the Smash wiki, it doesn't even have a normal item! I'd think they could implement the shields and super speed shoes from the classic games fairly easily. For stages, I'd love to see Chemical Plant Zone, Angel Island Zone, Speed Highway, or City Escape. Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman are all equally-deserving frontrunners. I most want Eggman - he's my most wanted character for Smash, period. With Ultimate's heavy focus on villains, Eggman really feels missing right now, and I hope that changes for the next game. But I'd be over the moon to get any of the aforementioned characters! Or even one of the others who are a bit lesser but still fairly strong picks, such as Metal Sonic, Amy, or Silver.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don’t know. Super Mario Bros. 2 mechanics like the Super Jump, Turnips, and Flying Carpet definitely make me think of Toad. Like I mentioned, that game was his and Peach’s first playable role and they all had unique properties in that game. Leaning into that game as a whole would at least make his moveset feel faithful to me. You could even get a bit crazy with this idea if you want like incorporating a digging mechanic (likely too much work) or a move where he picks up a key and causes the cursed mask to fly around the screen. Maybe I’m just old but the first thing that always sticks in my mind when I hear “playable Toad” is SMB2.

Tons of existing characters didn’t really have much to work with either before their inclusion in Smash. Captain Falcon, Fox, Peach, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and Piranha Plant among many others had to get a bit creative since there wasn’t much inspiration for direct source material that was unique to that character.

Again, those abilities aren't a Toad thing anyway.

Peach was also added specifically well before this criteria came up, which was now that a ton of big characters are in, choosing characters slowly become harder and harder. They aren't "Toad"-specific. We already have characters with powerful jumps, two with Turnips(one who started using it in their debut), and the Flying Carpet is still not a Toad thing. We already saw what it's actual for, mainly for enemies to use and you later to defeat an enemy to hitch a ride at times. But that doesn't mean they were ever Toad-exclusive either way. It's getting stretchy since at this point, we're not looking at Toad-only moves, but things he and others happened to do. It's still not(literally one move others did) enough to base a very clear ability set off of. It's not something you can throw onto him and put him in a new Mario game and it makes sense. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be a thing for the Mario cast at the time to use as a transport. The core unique thing with Toad in that game is how his jumping works(worst jumps, but a good charge jump. He also could pick up items and move a bit faster, along with pulling Turnips in the same way. ...This doesn't actually make him stand out, though or a clear way to make a coherent moveset out of specifically).

Remember, we're talking about something only he ever did to make a defining trait out of. Those are shared abilities with not just 3 of the Mario cast to begin with, but the thing he did more than anyone was try to personally help Peach, which he actually does. He's extremely loyal, and is a lovable coward. At the end of the day, this doesn't show up what he and only he can outright do. For that matter... how does a Flying Carpet make a moveset out of? It's not exactly a trait that sets him apart. Many characters are floaty or can fly for a bit. He can't fly forever either way, since that would be broken. It's a cool trait, but it isn't one that creates an easy set of abilities off of(and again, not an exclusive one, which is also why it doesn't do that much for him). Iconic =/= Exclusive. Iconic moves don't outright cut it anymore when choosing a character, especially when the Super Mario roster is pretty big as well. I want Toad in, but this is still not a move only he has ever done. Also, incidentally, move quickly while holding an item isn't exactly a trait he even brought to Smash(that was Donkey Kong's unique trait added for Smash 64(and notably instead of just being the only one who could move with a heavy item, Melee furthered it by letting him move faster than anyone else), and it's not the only thing he had to begin with. But to be fair, the characters in the first game were not based around having simply a gimmick, but that they were either easy to add or from the most recent games). We're past where just being iconic alone gets you in. Kazuya beat out Heihachi for a reason, and that's "had a stand-out trait the other doesn't have" as well. Albeit, with the Pass DLC, Nintendo chose every character first, but yeah.

 

[Gengar84]

Again, those abilities aren't a Toad thing anyway.

Peach was also added specifically well before this criteria came up, which was now that a ton of big characters are in, choosing characters slowly become harder and harder. They aren't "Toad"-specific. We already have characters with powerful jumps, two with Turnips(one who started using it in their debut), and the Flying Carpet is still not a Toad thing. We already saw what it's actual for, mainly for enemies to use and you later to defeat an enemy to hitch a ride at times. But that doesn't mean they were ever Toad-exclusive either way. It's getting stretchy since at this point, we're not looking at Toad-only moves, but things he and others happened to do. It's still not(literally one move others did) enough to base a very clear ability set off of. It's not something you can throw onto him and put him in a new Mario game and it makes sense. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be a thing for the Mario cast at the time to use as a transport. The core unique thing with Toad in that game is how his jumping works(worst jumps, but a good charge jump. He also could pick up items and move a bit faster, along with pulling Turnips in the same way. ...This doesn't actually make him stand out, though or a clear way to make a coherent moveset out of specifically).

Remember, we're talking about something only he ever did to make a defining trait out of. Those are shared abilities with not just 3 of the Mario cast to begin with, but the thing he did more than anyone was try to personally help Peach, which he actually does. He's extremely loyal, and is a lovable coward. At the end of the day, this doesn't show up what he and only he can outright do. For that matter... how does a Flying Carpet make a moveset out of? It's not exactly a trait that sets him apart. Many characters are floaty or can fly for a bit. He can't fly forever either way, since that would be broken. It's a cool trait, but it isn't one that creates an easy set of abilities off of(and again, not an exclusive one, which is also why it doesn't do that much for him). Iconic =/= Exclusive. Iconic moves don't outright cut it anymore when choosing a character, especially when the Super Mario roster is pretty big as well. I want Toad in, but this is still not a move only he has ever done. Also, incidentally, move quickly while holding an item isn't exactly a trait he even brought to Smash(that was Donkey Kong's unique trait added for Smash, and it's not the only thing he had to begin with. But to be fair, the characters in the first game were not based around having simply a gimmick, but that they were either easy to add or from the most recent games). We're past where just being iconic alone gets you in. Kazuya beat out Heihachi for a reason, and that's "had a stand-out trait the other doesn't have" as well. Albeit, with the Pass DLC, Nintendo chose every character first, but yeah.

I feel like you’re probably making too big a deal out of moveset exclusivity. Pretty much every Pokémon and Fire Emblem character shares several moves with others in their games. Byleth, for example, borrowed the other House leaders’ weapons for their moveset. They might have had enough to work with just using the Sword of the Creator, but they didn’t choose to go that route. Characters like Captain Falcon never had any moveset at all to work with since he was just a driver. Similarly, Duck Hunt borrowed ideas from other light gun games for its moveset. To me, as long as the character feels faithful, it doesn’t matter whether they were actually completely unique in their source game. There’s plenty you can pull from that can separate him from the rest of the roster.

 

[fogbadge]

Again, those abilities aren't a Toad thing anyway.

Peach was also added specifically well before this criteria came up, which was now that a ton of big characters are in, choosing characters slowly become harder and harder. They aren't "Toad"-specific. We already have characters with powerful jumps, two with Turnips(one who started using it in their debut), and the Flying Carpet is still not a Toad thing. We already saw what it's actual for, mainly for enemies to use and you later to defeat an enemy to hitch a ride at times. But that doesn't mean they were ever Toad-exclusive either way. It's getting stretchy since at this point, we're not looking at Toad-only moves, but things he and others happened to do. It's still not(literally one move others did) enough to base a very clear ability set off of. It's not something you can throw onto him and put him in a new Mario game and it makes sense. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be a thing for the Mario cast at the time to use as a transport. The core unique thing with Toad in that game is how his jumping works(worst jumps, but a good charge jump. He also could pick up items and move a bit faster, along with pulling Turnips in the same way. ...This doesn't actually make him stand out, though or a clear way to make a coherent moveset out of specifically).

Remember, we're talking about something only he ever did to make a defining trait out of. Those are shared abilities with not just 3 of the Mario cast to begin with, but the thing he did more than anyone was try to personally help Peach, which he actually does. He's extremely loyal, and is a lovable coward. At the end of the day, this doesn't show up what he and only he can outright do. For that matter... how does a Flying Carpet make a moveset out of? It's not exactly a trait that sets him apart. Many characters are floaty or can fly for a bit. He can't fly forever either way, since that would be broken. It's a cool trait, but it isn't one that creates an easy set of abilities off of(and again, not an exclusive one, which is also why it doesn't do that much for him). Iconic =/= Exclusive. Iconic moves don't outright cut it anymore when choosing a character, especially when the Super Mario roster is pretty big as well. I want Toad in, but this is still not a move only he has ever done. Also, incidentally, move quickly while holding an item isn't exactly a trait he even brought to Smash(that was Donkey Kong's unique trait added for Smash 64(and notably instead of just being the only one who could move with a heavy item, Melee furthered it by letting him move faster than anyone else), and it's not the only thing he had to begin with. But to be fair, the characters in the first game were not based around having simply a gimmick, but that they were either easy to add or from the most recent games). We're past where just being iconic alone gets you in. Kazuya beat out Heihachi for a reason, and that's "had a stand-out trait the other doesn't have" as well. Albeit, with the Pass DLC, Nintendo chose every character first, but yeah.

wait is that you white frost?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spoiler: Length

...I'm not sure I can further explain it well. That said, I really hope he gets in.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy 5th Anniversary to Super Mario Odyssey!

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Interesting bit of trivia; if we get no sort of followup to Odyssey before November 2023, it will the be longest time between new 3D Mario releases ever.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

wait is that you white frost?

Better to call me Irene if you want a default name.

 

[fogbadge]

Better to call me Irene if you want a default name.

well I know from us having a similar conversation before we are just going to end up going in circles, might I suggest we cut our loses and move on? toad stages anyone?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well I know from us having a similar conversation before we are just going to end up going in circles, might I suggest we cut our loses and move on? toad stages anyone?

But why would you want to fight on Toad, Captain Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Captain Toadettes bodies? O.o

Joking aside, Hmmmm. I admit by default, Mushroom Kingdom II already is a perfect stage, since unlike Peach, who has her own Castle, that's a great core stage to connect to him. Including for purposes like unlocking him, or if we could return a previous better All-Star format.

Otherwise, maybe a reference to the style of Wario's Woods? It's one his key roles as a protagonist.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Interesting bit of trivia; if we get no sort of followup to Odyssey before November 2023, it will the be longest time between new 3D Mario releases ever.

Wonder if we'll get something to go with the movie...

 

[fogbadge]

But why would you want to fight on Toad, Captain Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Captain Toadettes bodies? O.o

for the same reason we fought on the bodies of Pokemon in melee

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

for the same reason we fought on the bodies of Pokemon in melee

...That was a joke.

But sure, why not. XD

 

[Laniv]

well I know from us having a similar conversation before we are just going to end up going in circles, might I suggest we cut our loses and move on? toad stages anyone?

Mushroom Kingdom III, a stage based on Super Mario Bros. 3.

But seriously, I think Mushroom Kingdom II or even U works for him. In terms of new stages, perhaps Super Bell Hill or Hands-on Hall could work?

Alternatively, we give him a Captain Toad stage like Plucky Pass Beginnings or The Star Express, assuming that regular Toad gets in and that we're okay with blurring the lines between Toad and Captain Toad.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since sonic was mentioned a few posts ago, what route should they go with in terms of adding more content to smash?

Shadow as Echo. Eggman driving Death Egg Robot as Boss.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Since sonic was mentioned a few posts ago, what route should they go with in terms of adding more content to smash? As far as I remember, there was no clear frontrunner, but several picks that were all viable options. Same goes for stages.

Make him not an NASB Character. Also a Stage based off of one of the Classics or the Adventure Games would be based as well.

 

[Gengar84]

Spoiler: Length

...I'm not sure I can further explain it well. That said, I really hope he gets in.

The issue is that you’re describing how Robin and Byleth are unique to Smash but your argument against Toad is that he doesn’t do anything unique in his home series. It’s true that breakable weapons, an elemental mage, and a character referencing the weapons triangle were all relatively new to Smash but that’s far from the case when you look at these characters in Fire Emblem. Breakable weapons and the weapons triangle are a staple for the series and not unique to any specific character. Robin is far from the only elemental mage in their own entry, never mind the series as a whole.

The flying carpet was just one of many potential ideas so I wouldn’t get too hung up on that. It would be cool if Toad were to go down the route of representing Super Mario Bros. 2 in general, where Peach just has the turnips and float and Luigi now has the flutter jump.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given all the other playable characters (barring Toadette) are already in Smash, I always thought you could mine NSMB & SM3DW for Toad moves; boomerang flower, penguin suit, cannon box, propeller box, cat suit, squirrel suit, etc. Maybe have his Final Smash be a Double Cherry that creates 4 Toads that run across the screen causing havoc, something like that. I mean it doesn't seem like any of those mechanics are getting in Smash outside level concepts anyway, so why not throw them on Toad? A version of him has used all those elements in those games, so its as legitimate as anything else for him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The issue is that you’re describing how Robin and Byleth are unique to Smash but your argument against Toad is that he doesn’t do anything unique in his home series. It’s true that breakable weapons, an elemental mage, and a character referencing the weapons triangle were all relatively new to Smash but that’s far from the case when you look at these characters in Fire Emblem. Breakable weapons and the weapons triangle are a staple for the series and not unique to any specific character. Robin is far from the only elemental mage in their own entry, never mind the series as a whole.

The flying carpet was just one of many potential ideas so I wouldn’t get too hung up on that. It would be cool if Toad were to go down the route of representing Super Mario Bros. 2 in general, where Peach just has the turnips and float and Luigi now has the flutter jump.

What I was saying is that the case with Robin and Byleth is that within the confines of the game they're in, they had abilities that only they could do among the actual playable choices that Sakurai would even go for(there were literally 3 options in Awakening. Lucina, Chrom, and Robin. You weren't getting any other option. Only one stood out and got the slot, and Lucina was just lucky to be planned as an alt first, even taking the time to shorten her to match Marth's proportions). Byleth doesn't even count entirely, with at most having competition with the other 3 leaders, but because Nintendo chose the character, so it was either Sakurai could make the character work with an idea or had to scrap it and be given a new option. I didn't explain the Robin point well enough, but you have to remember that in these cases, the Mario cast are actually not really treated in a lot of games as "main characters vs supporting ones" in general. Thus, when Toad has some neat abilities, it's not that notable if everybody else can do it(which is why Mario Party and Kart are often a good way to look at it. Super Mario Bros. 2 USA is definitely a good starting point, it's just that the unique ability you mentioned isn't good to make a moveset out of. But it's great for a move option). To be fair, it was the only clear idea you gave that now that the rest of those characters in SMB2USA are in Smash(well, have been for a while), it would be something that separates Toad from the rest. Basically, if somebody is asking for a "unique ability", and you give one, the idea would be properly explored, heh. That's why I basically explained my full thought on the idea.

For a more tl;dr version of the above, when it comes to selecting a character in Fire Emblem, it's going to be one of the main Lords. Like, fullstop. That means that them standing out at best is with the other Lords within the same game by default. Or in some cases, the main core characters, not your entire army. Not any mage in FE was going to have a chance. Robin was pretty much the main character, so it was them or nothing else to consider. That's why they actually stood out, because the competition was Robin or Chrom at that point. Not Robin and -insert Mage here-(I don't know, when say, Grima, first appeared, and I'm not even sure they're mainly a mage class??). ...Byleth, yeah, was chosen by Nintendo, so it didn't really matter if they had a straight unique ability. It's just a matter if a coherent moveset could be made. Sakurai just decided to give them an ability loosely based upon something all are relevant to(the weapon triangle) and that was it.

I don't think there's an easy way to explain further what I meant by Toad, though. But I'll try; you gave an idea of what Toad is able to do that nobody else in Smash already has among his debut game. My issue was that it isn't really good to make a moveset based around the concept, so while a great move to incorporate, it's not a useful gimmick to base an idea off of. I only suggested another signature ability(kind of, as I explained before) with the Mushroom thing to figure out something clearer of a moveset idea out of. Probably wouldn't work well, but I rarely see a gimmicky moveset based upon an ability specific to Toad(or maybe his race, which wouldn't be bad either~). Even if being specific is kind of loose, Double Dash recognizes it as a "this is your thing!", which is close enough. But anyway, power-ups or a speed burst moveset are two pretty cool ways to incorporate his awesome abilities~

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Mushroom Kingdom III, a stage based on Super Mario Bros. 3.

You jest but this should absolutely exist.


Anyway, if Toad should get a stage not already in the game I honestly feel like something based on Wario's Woods would be fitting, considering that's the one game starring regular Toad. Though you could probably make something interesting based on Captain Toad Treasure Tracker too

 

[Gengar84]

What I was saying is that the case with Robin and Byleth is that within the confines of the game they're in, they had abilities that only they could do among the actual playable choices that Sakurai would even go for(there were literally 3 options in Awakening. Lucina, Chrom, and Robin. You weren't getting any other option. Only one stood out and got the slot, and Lucina was just lucky to be planned as an alt first, even taking the time to shorten her to match Marth's proportions). Byleth doesn't even count entirely, with at most having competition with the other 3 leaders, but because Nintendo chose the character, so it was either Sakurai could make the character work with an idea or had to scrap it and be given a new option. I didn't explain the Robin point well enough, but you have to remember that in these cases, the Mario cast are actually not really treated in a lot of games as "main characters vs supporting ones" in general. Thus, when Toad has some neat abilities, it's not that notable if everybody else can do it(which is why Mario Party and Kart are often a good way to look at it. Super Mario Bros. 2 USA is definitely a good starting point, it's just that the unique ability you mentioned isn't good to make a moveset out of. But it's great for a move option). To be fair, it was the only clear idea you gave that now that the rest of those characters in SMB2USA are in Smash(well, have been for a while), it would be something that separates Toad from the rest. Basically, if somebody is asking for a "unique ability", and you give one, the idea would be properly explored, heh. That's why I basically explained my full thought on the idea.

For a more tl;dr version of the above, when it comes to selecting a character in Fire Emblem, it's going to be one of the main Lords. Like, fullstop. That means that them standing out at best is with the other Lords within the same game by default. Or in some cases, the main core characters, not your entire army. Not any mage in FE was going to have a chance. Robin was pretty much the main character, so it was them or nothing else to consider. That's why they actually stood out, because the competition was Robin or Chrom at that point. Not Robin and -insert Mage here-(I don't know, when say, Grima, first appeared, and I'm not even sure they're mainly a mage class??). ...Byleth, yeah, was chosen by Nintendo, so it didn't really matter if they had a straight unique ability. It's just a matter if a coherent moveset could be made. Sakurai just decided to give them an ability loosely based upon something all are relevant to(the weapon triangle) and that was it.

I don't think there's an easy way to explain further what I meant by Toad, though. But I'll try; you gave an idea of what Toad is able to do that nobody else in Smash already has among his debut game. My issue was that it isn't really good to make a moveset based around the concept, so while a great move to incorporate, it's not a useful gimmick to base an idea off of. I only suggested another signature ability(kind of, as I explained before) with the Mushroom thing to figure out something clearer of a moveset idea out of. Probably wouldn't work well, but I rarely see a gimmicky moveset based upon an ability specific to Toad(or maybe his race, which wouldn't be bad either~). Even if being specific is kind of loose, Double Dash recognizes it as a "this is your thing!", which is close enough. But anyway, power-ups or a speed burst moveset are two pretty cool ways to incorporate his awesome abilities~

I’m not sure that every character really needs a gimmick to base an entire moveset around. As long as you get his general attributes correct, his moveset can take from various sources and just be individual attacks. As long as the combination those attacks result in a character that’s fun to play and not completely unbalanced, I think that’s all you really need.

At the end of the day, these are all just our opinions and it’s up to Sakurai and Nintendo to actually come up with something and bring it to fruition. It seems like we just have slightly different parameters in what makes a character worth consideration, and that’s fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m not sure that every character really needs a gimmick to base an entire moveset around. As long as you get his general attributes correct, his moveset can take from various sources and just be individual attacks. As long as the combination those attacks result in a character that’s fun to play and not completely unbalanced, I think that’s all you really need.

At the end of the day, these are all just our opinions and it’s up to Sakurai and Nintendo to actually come up with something and bring it to fruition. It seems like we just have slightly different parameters in what makes a character worth consideration, and that’s fine.

I mean, the characters who don't have a unique gimmick after Brawl were either a Clone(in some way), or mandated by Nintendo(...And even then, the ones mandated by Nintendo in Ultimate have a gimmick). So, while I agree with your sentiment, in practice it's held true. So you can see why I expect it. I want it to be dropped too, but I can see where Sakurai's coming from. When tons of choices are in, you need something to help get many characters in. Those "gimmicks" basically create a very clear idea of how the moveset should work. And a power-up gimmick, as suggested earlier, works great for Toad. If anything, it does fit, since Toad(or the race alone) gave you power-up items in Super Mario Bros. 3. Coupled with the last remaining functional thing from SMB2USA(the Flying Carpet), and you can make a sweetttttt moveset.

So it's more we know gimmicks are part of a character's addition for non-clones these days. Of course it could change, but it's probably not that likely anyway.

Anyway, I agree being fun to play is more important. Even if development shows it's not the first factor, but more like "how we balance it out from the intended gimmick". ...Actually, was any newcomer to Brawl besides maybe Lucas, without a unique gimmick? I can't think of one. Toon Link was pretty much based upon Young Link's data, so it's just the same gimmick (kid version of Link to represent a different era of games).

 

[StrangeKitten]

well I know from us having a similar conversation before we are just going to end up going in circles, might I suggest we cut our loses and move on? toad stages anyone?

He doesn't really need one. The Mario series already has a ton of stages, and Piranha Plant did not come with a new stage. However, there are of course still options. If they pulled a lot from Mario Party, they could do a stage based on one of those. If they pulled a lot from Captain Toad, that would likewise be a fitting stage base.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He doesn't really need one. The Mario series already has a ton of stages, and Piranha Plant did not come with a new stage. However, there are of course still options. If they pulled a lot from Mario Party, they could do a stage based on one of those. If they pulled a lot from Captain Toad, that would likewise be a fitting stage base.

Piranha Plant was always a bonus DLC character, the same as Mewtwo. However, even then, many characters don't come with new stages dedicated to them(Bowser sure didn't, where Peach did), so it wouldn't matter. Especially more notable cause Ultimate returned almost every stage in the game while adding only a few. Only the Fighter's Pass had all new stages, one per character.

It'd be nice, though~

 

[---]

Kind of coming into this late but we have been getting a large number of reports from this thread recently. We'll continue to review the reports that come in, but it feels like it's a good time to remind everyone that Smashboards does have the option to Ignore selected users.

https://smashboards.com/account/ignored

If you feel a fellow user is trolling/flaming you then definitely report it, but responding in kind and continuing the argument does not do anyone any favors and can potentially derail the thread. Given this is a purely speculation thread I don't think there is any real need to get as heated as some of the last few pages have been.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Huh. I was looking up the Sonic thing for Melee, and he was "strongly considered", and this is obviously before Sega would have a game on it. Yuji Naka did ask in May 2001, and the game was too far in development.

It isn't till December 2001 Sonic Adventure 2: Battle releases. However, it's worth noting that Sega didn't leave the console business till January 2001, so it's possible they at least were working on the Sonic games by May(especially Sonic Advance 1, which also released in December 2001), which would explain why. Sega and Nintendo were at least working together to release games, so it wouldn't be hard to license Sonic outright. So as I said before, it's less about when a game even releases for eligibility, and it's way more about the licensing to use the character that can affect their chances. And even then? This comes down to not just the character. If a company is willing to cooperate with Nintendo, that means that any licensing for any character has a decent chance. Them making any kind of appearance or any plan for one just puts them in a better situation as they're going to have some activity, and that very often makes any character or series easier to license the character/general content from. But as I've said before, it's nothing more than simple business.

 

[Chuderz]

I really wish they could have added every stage back into Ultimate. That would be such an amazing feat coupled with EiH!

I do consider all the previous games' Final Destinations and Battlefields unique though, including the 3DS variants. Also Meta Crystal I feel like should also count and it'd be nice to finally be able to officially access it. Then there are all the other similar miscellaneous stages like all the Subspace stages but especially the Tabuu boss fight stage. The others are a little too generic to consider I feel like. I'd also like the ability to have "walled" main/primary (the floors of the overall stage) platforms similar to some of the FD variants in Smash 4. I'd also really adore having some pallet/seasonal swaps for stages not too unsimilar to the Mementos gimmick for the former and maybe something like Animal Crossing seasonal decorations for the latter. Finally I'd really like some stage stops where the likes of the lifestream and Holy portions of Northern Cave or any of the stops on the Wii Fit resort stage or even any of the Pokemon Stadium transformations stay static allowing players to fight on these usually short/timed instances of a particular stage for as long as you wish.

 

[fogbadge]

You jest but this should absolutely exist.


Anyway, if Toad should get a stage not already in the game I honestly feel like something based on Wario's Woods would be fitting, considering that's the one game starring regular Toad. Though you could probably make something interesting based on Captain Toad Treasure Tracker too

believe it or not but there's an even more obscure game staring him

I really wish they could have added every stage back into Ultimate.

i do agree that there are some stages that's nice to have back. but then i suppose the limit was reached

 

[Diddy Kong]

Given all the other playable characters (barring Toadette) are already in Smash, I always thought you could mine NSMB & SM3DW for Toad moves; boomerang flower, penguin suit, cannon box, propeller box, cat suit, squirrel suit, etc. Maybe have his Final Smash be a Double Cherry that creates 4 Toads that run across the screen causing havoc, something like that. I mean it doesn't seem like any of those mechanics are getting in Smash outside level concepts anyway, so why not throw them on Toad? A version of him has used all those elements in those games, so its as legitimate as anything else for him.

I kind of dislike this idea. Propeller Cap, yes, and I'd like the POW block and exact same Down B as Peach with the Turpins, but outside of that, the main appeal of Toad to me is that he'd be a simple fighter without too many gimmicks. Just a lightweight fast fighter with okay combo potential and relative good KO power, that's what I feel Toad should be.

If you want a Toad with gimmicks, Captain Toad is the way I feel. But he'd be anything but agile and combo based.

Anyway, it's a shame Dixie or Impa haven't been mentioned amongst all these Nintendo owned potential newcomers.

 

[fogbadge]

I kind of dislike this idea. Propeller Cap, yes, and I'd like the POW block and exact same Down B as Peach with the Turpins, but outside of that, the main appeal of Toad to me is that he'd be a simple fighter without too many gimmicks. Just a lightweight fast fighter with okay combo potential and relative good KO power, that's what I feel Toad should be.

If you want a Toad with gimmicks, Captain Toad is the way I feel. But he'd be anything but agile and combo based.

Anyway, it's a shame Dixie or Impa haven't been mentioned amongst all these Nintendo owned potential newcomers.

well that’s cause I suggested we talk about toad specifically

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I kind of dislike this idea. Propeller Cap, yes, and I'd like the POW block and exact same Down B as Peach with the Turpins, but outside of that, the main appeal of Toad to me is that he'd be a simple fighter without too many gimmicks. Just a lightweight fast fighter with okay combo potential and relative good KO power, that's what I feel Toad should be.

If you want a Toad with gimmicks, Captain Toad is the way I feel. But he'd be anything but agile and combo based.

Well I mean a new Smash wouldn't have to use all of them, just enough to keep him balanced and work with his style of play. The beauty of NSMB/SM3DW being so underutilized for moves is that Sakurai/Nintendo could get away with being selective in choosing what to incorporate with Toad. And whatever they don't use could even be thrown onto Toadette as semi-clone/echo if they felt like it.

 

[Gengar84]

I kind of dislike this idea. Propeller Cap, yes, and I'd like the POW block and exact same Down B as Peach with the Turpins, but outside of that, the main appeal of Toad to me is that he'd be a simple fighter without too many gimmicks. Just a lightweight fast fighter with okay combo potential and relative good KO power, that's what I feel Toad should be.

If you want a Toad with gimmicks, Captain Toad is the way I feel. But he'd be anything but agile and combo based.

Anyway, it's a shame Dixie or Impa haven't been mentioned amongst all these Nintendo owned potential newcomers.

Dixie and Impa are both among my very most wanted first party characters for Smash. The issue is that my preferred implementation of each of them isn’t really what the general Smash community seems to want.

I have little interest in either character as a clone or semi-clone of Diddy Kong or Sheik. The main reason I’m a bit disappointed in DK and Diddy’s movesets is that I don’t feel like they represent the original trilogy very well. DK has his ground slap and finally a roll dash attack and Diddy just has the cartwheel. Most of Diddy’s moves actually come from DK64. Dixie is my favorite Kong and I’d be hyped to see her with a moveset that takes direct inspiration from those original games. The two main mechanics that make DKC stand out for me are the unique tag system with double team attacks and the animal buddies. Even if neither is unique to Dixie specifically, she still utilized both in her games. That’s why I’d be a bit disappointed to see her get in as either a clone or with a bunch of made up attacks she never used. Basically, my stance is that I’d rather see her use moves that she canonically had, even if they weren’t unique specifically to her than see her have several made up attacks that she never used at all.

As for Impa, the only version of the character I truly loved was the original Hyrule Warriors. She has such an awesome design and attitude in that game that I feel she never really captured anywhere else. Both the naginata and the great sword have such unique potential in Smash that it would be a shame to see her reduced to a Sheik echo. I also feel like there are plenty of Smash characters with a cheery and bubbly personality and not a ton that are stoic. Even though I still like ALTTP Zelda, I feel that she lost a bit of what makes her stand out in comparison to Peach with Ultimate. Personally, I think that AoC Impa would continue this trend, even if she does have a lot of of moveset potential in her own right. I believe that HW Impa would be a great way to represent the Nintendo Warriors as well and she could bring in a HW stage and tons of amazing music.

 

[Chuderz]

Also speaking of Mementos I really hate the hazardless version of it. I think it was boneheaded for the devs to completely omit the rightward platform (the one with a screen on it when it's red) when hazards are turned off. It's literally displayed on the stage-select icon for the stage and yet Smash team for some inexplicable reason considers a ****ing platform a stage hazard? Simply because it doesn't start out there at the beginning of the match when hazards are enabled? Wouldn't that make including it in a static stationary position on the hazardless version that much more unique and appealing? Some of the decisions Sakurai and Smash team make are so irritating sometimes. Sure you could say they can't please everyone but I fail to see how this decision benefitted the stage gameplay-wise or visually because I think it really hurt both those aspects of design. I guess it's because they're all different when the color is changed? I don't know why they couldn't just be incorporated into the hazardless version accordingly but whatever. The yellow one is absolutely dreadful.

Another thing that pisses me off about it is that the right-side of the screen platform is treated like a ledge and yet the left-side of it isn't. Did they just like forget or something? So annoying.

Also I really like that chunky auxiliary platform design. I think it'd be really cool to start experimenting with these chunky auxiliary platforms with ledges because it's a very unexplored new terrain for the franchise AND as a Cloud main I love when I can wall-jump and wall-jumping off an auxiliary platform is very cool and I think could open a whole new world of depth for wall-jumping/wall-clinging characters.

I imagine a future Battlefield with 3 of these fat auxiliary platforms with a walled primary base platform similar to Kalos or Megaman's stage... A wall-jumping paradise.... It'd be sooooo coooooool.

 

[Gengar84]

Also speaking of Mementos I really hate the hazardless version of it. I think it was boneheaded for the devs to completely omit the rightward platform (the one with a screen on it when it's red) when hazards are turned off. It's literally displayed on the stage-select icon for the stage and yet Smash team for some inexplicable reason considers a ****ing platform a stage hazard? Simply because it doesn't start out there at the beginning of the match when hazards are enabled? Wouldn't that make including it in a static stationary position on the hazardless version that much more unique and appealing? Some of the decisions Sakurai and Smash team make are so irritating sometimes. Sure you could say they can't please everyone but fail to see how this decision benefitted the stage gameplay-wise or visually because I think it really hurt both those aspects of design.

Another thing that pisses me off about it is that the right-side of the screen platform is treated like a ledge and yet the left-side of it isn't. Did they just like forget or something? So annoying.

Also I really like that chunky auxiliary platform design. I think it'd be really cool to start experimenting with these chunky auxiliary platforms with ledges because it's a very unexplored new terrain for the franchise AND as a Cloud main I love when I can wall-jump and wall-jumping off an auxiliary platform is very cool and I think could open a whole need world of depth for wall-jumping/wall-clinging characters.

I haven’t been too big on a lot of recent stages to be honest. My ideal stage would feel like you’re actually battling in part of the world it’s referencing rather than a big floating platform. A perfect example is Hollow Bastion. I’d much rather be battling in Hollow Bastion itself rather than a platform that just flies around and shows you the location on the background. Compare that to something like Hyrule Castle in 64 or Hyrule Temple in Melee, where the fighting actually takes place in the location itself and they feel like actual locations rather than Battlefield with a new gimmick. So many modern stages being variants on Battlefield seems especially pointless when we already have Omega and Battlefield forms of every stage. All these similar stages really takes away from the platform aspect of a platform fighter like Smash in my opinion.

 

[Chuderz]

I haven’t been too big on a lot of recent stages to be honest. My ideal stage would feel like you’re actually battling in part of the world it’s referencing rather than a big floating platform. A perfect example is Hollow Bastion. I’d much rather be battling in Hollow Bastion itself rather than a platform that just flies around and shows you the location on the background. Compare that to something like Hyrule Castle in 64 or Hyrule Temple in Melee, where the fighting actually takes place in the location itself and they feel like actual locations rather than Battlefield with a new gimmick. So many modern stages being variants on Battlefield seems especially pointless when we already have Omega and Battlefield forms of every stage.

I mostly agree though I get why they do it like that. Did ya like Spiral Mountain then at least? That seems right up your alley.

Northern Cave is kind of both of these design philosophies clashing. When you descend down into the Northern Cave in the actual game there are floating platforms and to Smash team's credit they did design the platforms of that stage around these platforms from the OG game because of course they did. When you're in the lifestream and holy portions of the stage it's really like you're battling in the Northern Crater. Then the rest of the stage plays out exactly like what you're saying in that you're just kind of fighting while floating through a mini-movie playing in the background.on repeat.

I really wish somebody would make a mod that puts the lifestream portion of the stage on repeat. I really love that portion of the stage because I value the imagery of the lifestream nostalgically and love that it's in Smash. It seems simple enough and I'd try to but I don't even know where to start on something like that.

 

[Luke Starkiller]

Here's my pick for a new third-party character for Smash Bros Six who could represent the Valve Corporation. Gordon Freeman, who is the main protagonist of the Half-Life Universe. Half-Life is one of my favorite gaming franchises of all time and I think that Gordon should be the first representative from the PC Gaming console era.

But why choose Gordon instead of Chell or Heavy Weapons Guy?

I personally think that Gordon is one of the main gaming all-stars in history. Many of the Half Life titles have become extremely popular and are noted for being highly immersive gaming experiences from the years they came out. The most recent title, Half Life: Alyx has become one of the most popular VR experiences of all time and is noted for reviving the dormant Half Life franchise. Whilst the other Valve franchises are iconic, I believe Gordon would be chosen since he is the mascot of Valve just like Megaman is to Capcom or Sonic to Sega. That being said, there is nothing to stop Chell or the Heavy Weapons Guy from appearing later down the line as additional Valve representatives in a future Smash Bros title.

Background Information:

• Universe: Half Life.
• Console of Origin: Microsoft Windows, Personal Computer, November 19th, 1998.
• Game Appearances (1990s): Half Life, Half Life: Opposing Force (Cameo), Half Life: Blue Shift (Cameo).
• Game Appearances (2000s): Half Life: Decay (Cameo), Half Life 2, Half Life 2: Episode One, Half Life 2: Episode Two, Codename: Gordon.
• Game Appearances (2010s): Black Mesa, Black Mesa: Blue Shift (Cameo), Final Fantasy XV, (PC Exclusive).
• Game Appearances (2020s): Half Life: Alyx, Entropy Zero 2, (Cameo).

Normal Moves

• Neutral Attack: Gordon slams his Crowbar onto the target. Does 1% damage.
• Forward Tilt: Gordon slices his Crowbar side wards onto the target. Does 2% damage.
• Up Tilt: Gordon slices his Crowbar upwards onto the target. Does 2% damage.
• Down Tilt: Gordon slices his Crowbar downwards onto the target. Does 3% damage.
• Dash Attack: Gordon runs towards the target and bashes them with a Stunstick. Does 4% damage.
• Forward Smash: Gordon takes out his Shotgun and attacks the target with it. Does 15% damage.
• Up Smash: Gordon throws a Grenade that explodes upon contact with a target. Does 13% damage.
• Down Smash: Gordon kicks a target downwards with the back of his Shotgun. This attack has a chance to bury someone in the ground. Does 15% damage.
• Neutral Aerial: Gordon slashes the air with his Crowbar on a target. Does 7% damage.
• Forward Aerial: Gordon takes out the Barnacle Grapple and sticks onto a target with it. Does 5% damage.
• Backward Aerial: Gordon takes out the Barnacle Grapple and sticks onto a target backwards with it. Does 5% damage.
• Up Aerial: Gordon attacks with his SMG on a target upwards. Does 8% damage.
• Down Aerial: Gordon drops a Satchel Charge which explodes on a target downwards. Does 10% damage.
• Grab: Gordon grabs hold of the target with the Gravity Gun. Does 0% damage.
• Pummel: Gordon uses the Gravity Gun to keep the target in place, then bashes the target using his Crowbar or the Stunstick. Does 1 to 10% damage depending on the combo.
• Forward Throw: Gordon uses the Gravity Gun and throws the target onto the floor. Does 3% damage.
• Back Throw: Gordon uses the Gravity Gun and throws the target onto the floor backwards. Does 4% damage.
• Up Throw: Gordon uses the Gravity Gun to hurl the target upwards. Does 6% damage.
• Down Throw: Gordon pins the target down with his leg and uses a Stunstick or Crowbar to damage them. Does 5% damage.
• Floor Attack (Front): Gordon uses his Shotgun to blast the target. Does 4% to 13% damage.
• Floor Attack (Back): Gordon takes out a Laser Tripmine and places it on the target causing them to explode. Does 3% to 4% damage.
• Floor Attack (Trip): Gordon trips the target over with the Stunstick. Does 4% damage.
• Edge Attack (Fast): Gordon quickly punches the target with his Crowbar. Does 2% damage.
• Edge Attack (Slow): Gordon slowly punches the target with the Stunstick. Does 6% damage.

Special Moves

Neutral-Special, Inventory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0S-sBFdBpo (Reference Video)

• Upon pressing and holding down the corresponding activation button, Gordon takes out a different gun from his inventory which will include four different weapons from the Half Life universe.
• These are the Pistol, the 357, the MP5 from Half Life, and the AR2 from Half Life 2.
• When this move is being utilized, there is a yellow icon near Gordon's HP meter which showcases the type of weapon the player is using. This helps the player to keep track of what weapon Gordon is using.
• Each of the weapons has different statistics and damage outputs which can affect the weapon being used.
• For example, the 357 has the slowest fire rate, but it deals the most damage.
• And to compare, the AR2 has the fastest fire rate, but it deals the least amount of damage.
• Using the control stick, Gordon can aim the gun in any direction to take down other players on a map.
• However, each gun also has a certain amount of ammunition for each item.
• If Gordon runs out of ammunition, he must change his weapon or use a different attack.
• Each weapon deals 2% to 18% damage depending upon the weapon type used.

Side-Special, Rocket Launcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXv5Ez31A1A (Reference Video, go to 0:15)

• Upon pressing down the corresponding activation button, Gordon takes out an RPG and fires a slow-moving missile toward the target that can be moved with the control stick.
• Gordon can only fire one rocket per round until the projectile is destroyed.
• Does 10% to 20% damage depending on how close the target is to the explosion.

Up-Special, Barnacle Grapple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EnskRhOtGw (Reference Video, go to 8:27)

• Upon pressing down the corresponding activation button, Gordon takes out the Barnacle Grapple and attaches it onto a target upwards to the target or ledge.
• The Barnacle Grapple can only aim upwards, but the direction of the tilt can be modified with the control stick at different angles.
• Does 5% to 9% damage depending on how far or close the target is.

Down-Special, Gravity Gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MDm-IPHHo (Reference Video)

• Upon pressing the corresponding activation button, Gordon takes out the Gravity Gun which enables him to grab projectiles and hurl them back to the designated target.
• Gordon can also use this move to grab and open items and hurl them to targets as well such as Crates, Banana Peels, and other items.
• Each of these items can affect the target in different ways, however, so be careful when doing this.
• Damage varies on the type of projectile weapon used and the angle it is fired from.

Final Smash, Super Gravity Gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T5zIhRW6kU (Reference Video)

• Upon using a Smash Ball or filling his Final Smash meter, Gordon takes out the Stunstick and jams it into the Gravity Gun causing the weapon to charge up.
• Once the weapon is charged up, Gordon tosses the Stunstick to the side and aims the weapon at the stage before any targets on the stage are dragged into it.
• The weapon then explodes and reverts back to normal sending all targets flying off the stage.
• Depending upon where the Final Smash was used, the other players may be thrown off the stage or be heavily damaged.
• Damage varies from 30% to 50%, but any heavily damaged players will be knocked off the stage.

Fighter Ability, Long Jump Module: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i_V6dLXQFI (Reference Video)

• With the Long Jump Module equipped, Gordon is capable of performing an extra jump that can reach longer distances than most fighters.
• Near Gordon's HP meter is a recharge meter bar showcasing the refill rate of the Long Jump Module which slowly refills once it has been drained.
• The recharge time varies upon usage, but it can vary from ten seconds to thirty seconds engaging players to keep an eye on the module once it is being used correctly.

Character Stats:

• Number of Jumps: Two.
• Can Wall Jump: No.
• Can Wall Cling: Yes.
• Can Crawl: Yes
• Can Glide: No.
• Has a Tether: Yes.
• Weight: 105.
• Walk Speed: 0.855.
• Dash Speed: 1.65.
• Air Speed: 1.
• Fall Speed: 1.4.
• Fast Fall Speed: 1.7.
• Voiced by: None.

Taunts:

• Up Taunt: Gordon throws the Crowbar up in the air and catches it.
• Side Taunt: Gordon holds his Shotgun and does the Half Life box art pose.
• Down Taunt: Gordon kneels down and examines the Gravity Gun.
• Idle Taunt One: Gordon glances around the area briefly.
• Idle Taunt Two: Gordon adjusts his glasses on his face.

Entrance Animation:

• The G-Man teleports Gordon onto the stage from a green portal. Rarely G-Man can faintly reply, "Freeman..."

Victory Taunts:

• Victory One: Gordon twirls his Crowbar in the air whilst the G-Man says, "Wisely done, Mr. Freeman."
• Victory Two: Gordon smacks a Headcrab across the screen before he stares at the camera with a smile.
• Victory Three: Gordon is seen placing his foot down on a target before he smirks at the target below.
• Defeat: Gordon simply claps with a bored look on his face.

Kirby Hat:

• Kirby gains Gordon's hair, goatee, and glasses with his copy feature being the Inventory move.
• Kirby can only choose one weapon at random before the copy feature wears out.

Punch Out Stage Name and Crowd Cheer:

• Punch Out Stage Name: "The One Freeman."
• Crowd Cheer: "Gor-don Free-Man!" (English) "Go Go Gor-don!" (Japanese)

Home Stages

• Home Stage One: City 17. (Based on the plaza area outside the train station from the first section of Half Life 2, Civilians, CP's, and Combine Soldiers are in the background of the stage.)
• Home Stage Two: Xen. (Based on the Black Mesa remake version of Xen, the background area is filled with Xen wildlife such as Headcrabs, Houndeyes, Bullsquids, Boids, and Vortiguants.)

Alternative Costumes:

• Half Life: Alyx HEV Suit model.
• Half Life 2 HEV Suit model.
• Half Life HEV Suit model.
• Black Mesa HEV Suit model.
• Half Life: Beta HEV Suit model.
• Blue HEV Suit model.
• Red HEV Suit model.

Spirits:

• Gordon Freeman. (Half Life)
• Gordon Freeman. (Half Life 2)
• Gordon Freeman. (Half Life: Alyx)
• Gordon Freeman. (Black Mesa)
• Adrian Shepherd. (Half Life: Opposing Force)
• Adrian Shepherd. (Operation Black Mesa)
• Barney Calhoun. (Half Life: Blue Shift)
• Barney Calhoun. (Half Life 2)
• Barney Calhoun. (Black Mesa: Blue Shift)
• Gina Cross.
• Colette Green.
• Alyx Vance. (Half Life 2)
• Alyx Vance. (Half Life: Alyx)
• Bad Cop. (Entropy Zero)
• Bad Cop. (Entropy Zero 2)
• Eli Vance.
• Issac Kleiner.
• Dr Rosenberg.
• Judith Mossman.
• Wilson.
• Clone Cop.
• Griggs.
• Sheckley.
• Uriah.
• Russell.
• Dr Breen.
• G-Man.
• City 17 Citizens.
• Resistance Members.
• Black Mesa Personal.
• Vortiguants.
• Alien Grunts.
• Headcrabs.
• Zombie.
• Barnacle.
• Houndeye.
• Bullsquid.
• Nihilanth.
• HECU Marines.
• Antlion.
• Antlions.
• Combine Solider.
• Civil Protection Officer.
• Manhack.
• Strider.
• Hunter.

Music Tracks:

• Hazardous Environments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UthQ2gR1bU4
• Nuclear Mission Jam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iXfWWrwrlQ
• Military Precision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_c9djkr08
• Lambda Core: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGMc58W5i58
• We've Got Hostiles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZCM4FuI5A&list=PL7B392D9B49EAF881&index=11
• Questionable Ethics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtTmiYA5D4k&list=PL7B392D9B49EAF881&index=22
• Forget about Freeman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OacXUzTNXo&list=PL7B392D9B49EAF881&index=28
• Ascension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K9P9f3G3l0
• CP Violation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsjJmvANWn8
• Brane Scan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY807Hv1GJY
• You're Not Supposed to be Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu_JlYza4Is
• Dark Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAd_yjIJmYM
• What kind of Hospital is this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIj20iC45CQ&list=PL2ACDCFD841B5EAE6&index=11&t=0s
• Sector Sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0k-KbjycRA
• Eon Trap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r3D3tW26I
• Anti-Citizen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6IJnyZVbAc
• Parking Battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaLs6xm9Dcw&list=PLLtHMPL2vkA03XbYFGzQwEJO9SjeIzIFl&index=49
• No One Rides For Free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDIf7YMAhU4&list=PLgedPRk-fBsaEb4K_DifcMHW4GbKAXwg5&index=1
• They Watch Our Every Move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFv5oxmbmpw&list=PLgedPRk-fBsaEb4K_DifcMHW4GbKAXwg5&index=7
• Dark Stalker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNgdKJVb7g8&list=PLbmiuzDXK5YCaPcJfGMNoVjW6Jr6hBMzC&index=3

Even though this was just a fun thing to write down, I look forward to getting feedback on this and improvements. Thank you.

Update: Added in Entropy Zero content (Half-Life spinoff game series where you play as a Combine Civil Protection Unit and Combine Elite)

 

[Gengar84]

I mostly agree though I get why they do it like that. Did ya like Spiral Mountain then at least? That seems right up your alley.

Northern Cave is kind of both of these design philosophies clashing. When you descend down into the Northern Cave in the actual game there are floating platforms and to Smash team's credit they did design the platforms of that stage around these platforms from the OG game because of course they did. When you're in the lifestream and holy portions of the stage it's really like you're battling in the Northern Crater. Then the rest of the stage plays out exactly like what you're saying in that you're just kind of fighting while floating through a mini-movie playing in the background.on repeat.

I really wish somebody would make a mod that puts the lifestream portion of the stage on repeat. I really love that portion of the stage because I value the imagery of the lifestream nostalgically and love that it's in Smash. It seems simple enough and I'd try to but I don't even know where to start on something like that.

Yeah, Spiral Mountain and the Mishima Dojo are my two favorite stages in Ultimate. Both really feel like you’re in an actual environment. Other good stages are Terry’s and New Donk City. The CastleVania stage is great too but it’s a little bit awkward that the stairs just end in space rather than continuing down. In the last game, I really like Pit’s 3DS stage quite a bit. Pit’s Wii U stage and the Great Cave Offensive were cool in concept but they were a bit too large to keep track of my character and they were a bit much to play on.

 

[Sucumbio]

I haven’t been too big on a lot of recent stages to be honest. My ideal stage would feel like you’re actually battling in part of the world it’s referencing rather than a big floating platform. A perfect example is Hollow Bastion. I’d much rather be battling in Hollow Bastion itself rather than a platform that just flies around and shows you the location on the background. Compare that to something like Hyrule Castle in 64 or Hyrule Temple in Melee, where the fighting actually takes place in the location itself and they feel like actual locations rather than Battlefield with a new gimmick. So many modern stages being variants on Battlefield seems especially pointless when we already have Omega and Battlefield forms of every stage. All these similar stages really takes away from the platform aspect of a platform fighter like Smash in my opinion.

I loved Castle Siege when it was introduced. I think there's definitely categories for stages ranging from basic to extreme but for competitive play of course I stick to the normals

 

[Gengar84]

I mostly agree though I get why they do it like that. Did ya like Spiral Mountain then at least? That seems right up your alley.

Northern Cave is kind of both of these design philosophies clashing. When you descend down into the Northern Cave in the actual game there are floating platforms and to Smash team's credit they did design the platforms of that stage around these platforms from the OG game because of course they did. When you're in the lifestream and holy portions of the stage it's really like you're battling in the Northern Crater. Then the rest of the stage plays out exactly like what you're saying in that you're just kind of fighting while floating through a mini-movie playing in the background.on repeat.

I really wish somebody would make a mod that puts the lifestream portion of the stage on repeat. I really love that portion of the stage because I value the imagery of the lifestream nostalgically and love that it's in Smash. It seems simple enough and I'd try to but I don't even know where to start on something like that.

There is actually a mod that I believe is exactly what you’re asking for. I think they call it a Dissidia version but I’m pretty sure it’s just the normal stage with only the lifestream section.

 

[Chuderz]

Yeah, Spiral Mountain and the Mishima Dojo are my two favorite stages in Ultimate. Both really feel like you’re in an actual environment. Other good stages are Terry’s and New Donk City. The CastleVania stage is great too but it’s a little bit awkward that the stairs just end in space rather than continuing down. In the last game, I really like Pit’s 3DS stage quite a bit. Pit’s Wii U stage and the Great Cave Offensive were cool in concept but they were a bit too large to keep track of my character and they were a bit much to play on.

Oh yeah definitely with regard to Great Cave Offensive. I played through Superstar fairly recently and I feel there's a lot to be desired when comparing the OG version to the Smash stage version. To keep it short I'd basically like a more faithful interpretation of it. With that being said it'd kind of be... Waaaaaay too ambitious for a normal stage? It'd be something like the work put into the actual GCO stage plus like Orbital Gate Assault times 2 to make that happen and that's before we factor in some inevitable development hurdles that'd likely arise from trying something that crazy.

I think Great Cave Offensive is an often overlooked victim of the split between Wii U and 3DS versions of Smash 4. I think ideally GCO should be THE Smash run stage or at least one of them if they were insane enough to make multiple Smash run stages haha. I think it'd be so freaking awesome to play a completely faithful Smashified Great Cave Offensive with your chosen Smash character... But alas it was too big for the 3DS and Smash Run for some reason was cut from the Wii U release and here lies the potential of the Great Cave Offensive as a Smash stage...


RIP Great Cave Offensive's potential as a Smash stage...
2012-2014
*que In the Arms of an Angel or My Heart Will Go on or whatever...

There is actually a mod that I believe is exactly what you’re asking for. I think they call it a Dissidia version but I’m pretty sure it’s just the normal stage with only the lifestream section.

Hey thanks! Sometimes I just need to actually look! Imma enjoy this later today. Modders save the day yet again.