Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Nabbitfan730]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Any Shantae fans on here, you might want to keep your eyes peeled

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Any Shantae fans on here, you might want to keep your eyes peeled

They also announced a Shovel Knight one as well, by the way.

Man, I remember when that Nendoroid Select thing started, and all the Smash support threads were encouraging people to vote for their characters on it, like Geno and Isaac.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I see nothing really has changed since the last time I visited this thread. Well, that's how it is in-between speculation cycles. Anyways I'm here to talk about Ashley and how an idea came up to my head on a unique gimmick she could use.

I've been having fun with the rollback update for Blazblue Central Fiction, and one character's moveset in particular got stuck on my mind due to how unique and stylish it is. The character I'm talking about is Nine the Phantom, her gimmick is that her normal moves are tuned to specific elements: Water, Wind, and Fire. When her normal attacks hit/are blocked by her opponent, she gains mana for that element, and she can press a button to cast a spell using all her gathered mana.

Nine can save up to three mana - getting a fourth will delete the oldest one. Different combinations of mana will give different spells (20 in total!). Each spell is determined by the amount of each mana, not the order they are gained. This makes her gameplay so fun and fresh since you have so many combination of spells to cast from your stored up mana.

I'm mentioning this because this reminded me of Ashley! Both characters are witches that cast magic after all. I thought to myself that you could give this fun mana storing gimmick to Ashley and have her neutral special work differently depending on the type of mana she has stored.

I might go into more detail on this moveset for Ashley one day, I really think it's a fun and unique gimmick, and now I wish that if Ashley comes to Smash she has a gimmick similar to this.

 

[Sucumbio]

Do we think final smashes will return for the next game? The smash meter was a neat addition (though I play with it off usually). I was thinking the meter could stay but could be used to unleash flurry attacks, super moves, auto combos etc... I think final smashes could be reduced to shorter animations in lieu of this. But could also be kept in the same and just change the meter to be customizable for super attacks or final smashes

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do we think final smashes will return for the next game? The smash meter was a neat addition (though I play with it off usually). I was thinking the meter could stay but could be used to unleash flurry attacks, super moves, auto combos etc... I think final smashes could be reduced to shorter animations in lieu of this. But could also be kept in the same and just change the meter to be customizable for super attacks or final smashes

Most likely. They're part of the chaos and have been tweaked more than once to make it simpler. Latest game made them streamlined/faster to keep things going(though it's not like they were turned into cutscenes outside of new ones at best), but they feel quick enough to be like it at times.

They also are a fun special move to further represent a character. It's one of Ganondorf's few moves based upon canon/artworks(the other is his Forward Air. To a degree, Warlock Punch and Wizard's Foot resemble some animations, and there's also Flame Choke).

 

[Will]

Do we think final smashes will return for the next game? The smash meter was a neat addition (though I play with it off usually). I was thinking the meter could stay but could be used to unleash flurry attacks, super moves, auto combos etc... I think final smashes could be reduced to shorter animations in lieu of this. But could also be kept in the same and just change the meter to be customizable for super attacks or final smashes

No reason for them to be cut. They're fun if not for many characters' final smashes being outdated or not even touched in Sakurai's new way of wanting to give everyone flashy super moves over general stage-based chaos. Mario Finale has lost all of the hype it had back in 2008. Now I'd rather just have something else when every other character has an arguably better one.

I'm not a fan of the idea of putting auto combos, or FS-based Super moves rather than Final Smashes. Some of these things are guaranteed kills, you really want S-Tier Zelda/Peach that bad??? In a competitive setting with no items??? I thought we wanted a balanced game here.

 

[Sucumbio]

No reason for them to be cut. They're fun if not for many characters' final smashes being outdated or not even touched in Sakurai's new way of wanting to give everyone flashy super moves over general stage-based chaos. Mario Finale has lost all of the hype it had back in 2008. Now I'd rather just have something else when every other character has an arguably better one.

I'm not a fan of the idea of putting auto combos, or FS-based Super moves rather than Final Smashes. Some of these things are guaranteed kills, you really want S-Tier Zelda/Peach that bad??? In a competitive setting with no items??? I thought we wanted a balanced game here.

I was thinking the reward for a full meter would be an enhanced special map for b so in essence all the specials would be enhanced though not to the level of final smash yeah that'd be too much lol

 

[CheeseAnton]

This is definitely a minor thing but I really hope music get added between updates next game. Games that came out after Ultimate with no music (mainly thinking Paper Mario: The Origami King and Astral Chain but I know there are more) still feel missing as they have spirits but I still can't listen to their incredible music while fighting the characters.

Ultimate was still fantastic but a Boss Fight or a Savior would've been nice.

 

[Yamat08]

Not every newcomer is really supposed to be at that level anyway; part of the point of celebrating Nintendo history is digging into the nooks and crannies of it. Of course you can't add in any random character unless they achieve a certain level of significance, but that's more because it would be unfair to the more significant characters.

Indeed, and it's why I welcomed characters like Mr. Game&Watch, and even Piranha Plant, as the amusing surprises that they are.

I don't see how this is going "backwards" at all; if anything it's refocusing and moving towards a roster that feels as complete as it can be within the resource and practicality constraints that are given. If you open the floodgates to anything and everything, then the roster is just a total mess with no focus or fairness.

Very much agreed, and this is exactly why I feel that third parties should be held to high scrutiny (that, and the fact that Sakurai has to specifically go out of his way for them far more than any character already owned by Nintendo). That said, I'm glad that most of the third parties present in Smash (though especially the playable characters) aren't some flash-in-the-pan recent trend that could completely fade away in a few years, but rather major icons in their own right that could legitimately stand toe-to-toe with Nintendo's absolute legends and have proven longevity. As I mentioned before, even the indie characters are significant in some way (and/or have deep ties with Nintendo, which is also something that Bayonetta and Banjo&Kazooie have going for them). The only one I can say I'm really iffy about is Joker, and that's mainly because he just happened to luck out as the current Persona protagonist, whom could prove to be just as expendable as the protagonists of the series entries that preceded him (though by no means do I think that the Persona series itself wasn't worthy of having a rep).

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Has anyone saw gameplay of Rumbleverse ?? Its a battle royale fighting game made by Iron Galaxy. Up to 40 players battle each other.

what if the next smash (exclusive to next switch hardware model) is a 3D battle royale style game where:

• 32 or a similar count battling each other in an island with various themed areas. Example: a mario bases area next to a legend of zelda one. Imagine something similar to WoL map but in full 3D.
• Gameplay mechanics will be similar to actual smash game but in 3D. Same as items, AT and pokeballs. There are all stamina style battles.
• Some places will feature destructible areas.
• Roster is reduced to (+/-) 32 fighters. Only 8 alts per character as always so they won’t be 32 all mario battles lol. They will try to add complete ultimate roster as dlc.
• There will be single player modes like story and such. There is also the chance to play more reduced battles in just one area of the island.
  
  They can also make an update of smash ultimate adding more content (primarly characters and stages) so in the future we can have 2 games: ultimate DX and the on-going battle royale game.

 

[AlRex]

Make the battle royale thing its own thing or a spin-off. Like, you could even have preexisting Nintendo characters in it, but there’s no reason for it to replace Smash. Although that now reminds me that I once had an idea for a strategy game where video game villains like Bowser, Ganon, Eggman, Dracula, Dr. Wily, etc. command their armies to go against each other, and maybe occasionally join in to fight. Could be something in its own right, as well.

 

[Simnm]

Make the battle royale thing its own thing or a spin-off. Like, you could even have preexisting Nintendo characters in it, but there’s no reason for it to replace Smash. Although that now reminds me that I once had an idea for a strategy game where video game villains like Bowser, Ganon, Eggman, Dracula, Dr. Wily, etc. command their armies to go against each other, and maybe occasionally join in to fight. Could be something in its own right, as well.

The battle royale mode could be like a side mode similiar to smash run.
(In fact smash run is already quite similiar to a battle royale mode itself)

 

[toonito]

I don't know about a battle royale but I have thought of Smash going 3D arena fighter as a possible way to reinvent the series if needed. I don't know how the ring out situation would work due to the constantly rotating camera or the fact that in a 2-player game you won't be starting on an even plane (1 character would be further away than the other)

 

[Trevenant]

Can I just say, talking about smash 6 being anything other than a 2.5d platform fighter is getting into completely different genre territory... I assume people are posting on this site cos they like smash.... and with that in mind, IDK, I can't really say I understand why there's suddenly been a rise in proposing ideas for smash to become a fundamentally different game mechanically...

Maybe it's cos people think the crossover aspect is what carries smash, but that couldn't be further from the truth... If the gameplay wasn't good, that would have a severe impact on people's views on the game... Which is why the gameplay is good, as pretty much everyone can agree that smash pulls off what it's trying to do in such a unique way, and allows every character to properly express themselves in a snappy way to suit the environment...

Pretty much, if we're talking smash, we're talking the same gameplay it's had for the past 20 years or so... There's not any chance of it changing and not any reason for it to, since it still is kinda the best of it's kind, despite how similar games try to feel as snappy as it. That's probably why smash is really the only one that exists within the collective mind of gaming... And I hope most people view that as a good thing, since I'd assume posting on the site means people also must like the gameplay of smash...

Imagine if smash was just like brawlhalla, where crossover stuff was just cosmetics... Not nearly as many people would be posting here since it wouldn't be as good as say, having the characters express themselves in unique ways like current smash does.

It's an idea for other genre's, but smash's gameplay is absolutely the biggest component in it being such a well loved game TBH, probably more than the crossover aspect, as gameplay usually takes priority when it comes to judging how good a fighting game is... Stuff like smash kart is even more obvious as to why it's completely different, and only barely related due to the hypothetical crossover aspect... AKA completely different gameplay styles

 

[ceterisparibus]

It was definitely between Roy and Leif. IIRC the story was that Sakurai went to IS for Leif but saw early footage of Roy during the development of FE6, after which he added Roy. IIRC Marth was considered for Smash 64 and was always the first choice for an FE rep.

As far as reputable sources went there wasn't any indication that leif was wanted. It was either marth and roy, or just solo marth.
Which is pretty believable since we more often than not get single characters from newcomer franchises.

Echoes is an incredibly close remake to Gaiden. In fact, the biggest criticism against Echoes is that they transferred most of the gameplay from an antiquated NES RPG with few changes. Sure, they drastically expanded the story and added some new mechanics like combat arts, supports, and 3-D exploration for the dungeons, but the core gameplay loop, mechanics, and level design are translated one for one from Gaiden.

New Mystery of the Emblem definitely diverts from Mystery of the Emblem more than Echoes diverts from Gaiden, but it still has the same foundation. The level design is more or less identical and most of the mechanical changes are minor beyond getting rid of dismounting and adding reclassing.

If you wanted to remake Genealogy in the style of Thracia, you'd need to cut the massive maps, the individual gold pools, weapons being repairable, the distribution of weapons, enemy placement, and the stats of the enemies. If you wanted to remake Thracia in the style of Genealogy, you'd have to cut the capture mechanic, the steal mechanic, the dismount mechanic, and literally every map in the game.

I really want both of these games remade too, but I also want them remade well. What makes Genealogy and Thracia so fun to play 20+ years after their releases are what they do differently from other entries. Likewise, their narratives are designed around their gameplay, so you're harming both the gameplay and the story. I'd much rather see two good remakes over the next 5 years than a good remake and a bad one crammed into one package.

The thing, as you mentioned, IS have shown they're not above changing and revamping elements of said game when it comes to remakes. Even stuff like mila's turnwheel radically changes up how you play echoes compared to the original and it doesn't strike me that the mechanics from both games are so fundamentally important they cannot be adapted or removed for streamlining (and thracia had some, eh, really questionable gameplay mechanics that probably needs change heal missing).

More importantly, personally i think it's more realistic that they will do a single remake before moving onto a brand new game rather than doing 2 remakes simultaneously (especially when thracia sold like ****), since it keeps their brand fresh while attracting players who aren't traditionally interested in remakes (similar to how we don't see multiple remakes happening back to back for many studios). Especially since both stories happen within the same timeframe and even have a bit of crossover narrative as well. The other option being remake > new game > thracia remake seems even more unlikely either.

Personally? I think introducing thracia as dlc would be a more feasible option - you still get to see leif's story rather than not seeing it at all.

 

[Yamat08]

Can I just say, talking about smash 6 being anything other than a 2.5d platform fighter is getting into completely different genre territory... I assume people are posting on this site cos they like smash.... and with that in mind, IDK, I can't really say I understand why there's suddenly been a rise in proposing ideas for smash to become a fundamentally different game mechanically...

Same. And I forget if I pointed it out here earlier, but I think Smash just wouldn't work very well in a 3D environment. Smash has become reputable for being a mixture of the platformer and fighter genres (enough so that it pretty much codified several other attempts at such a hybrid), which makes sense considering that Nintendo's flagship franchise (as well as the obvious namesake to Smash Bros.) is primarily a platformer series. That said, I don't see Smash getting rid of the platforms lest it remove a major part of its identity. However, platforms are tricky enough to work with in a 3D environment even when making a single-player adventure game, let alone a competitive fighting game. Off the top of my head, the only game to even attempt such a thing was ARMS, and putting aside that game's rather lukewarm reception, it has something major which helped it kinda work: ranged attacks and grabs, something which not every character in Smash Bros. would have access to (though I guess to be fair, not every Nintendo character was capable of doing a double-jump along with some sort of semi-flying recovery move prior to the N64 game, either..... even then, it's not hard to see it being an expansion on the almost universal concept of jumping).

Maybe it's cos people think the crossover aspect is what carries smash, but that couldn't be further from the truth... If the gameplay wasn't good, that would have a severe impact on people's views on the game... Which is why the gameplay is good, as pretty much everyone can agree that smash pulls off what it's trying to do in such a unique way, and allows every character to properly express themselves in a snappy way to suit the environment...

Pretty much, if we're talking smash, we're talking the same gameplay it's had for the past 20 years or so... There's not any chance of it changing and not any reason for it to, since it still is kinda the best of it's kind, despite how similar games try to feel as snappy as it. That's probably why smash is really the only one that exists within the collective mind of gaming... And I hope most people view that as a good thing, since I'd assume posting on the site means people also must like the gameplay of smash...

Eh, I dunno. I mean, I do get what you're saying about the gameplay being good, but I also think the crossover aspect, the ability to interact with and use these legendary characters in all kinds of situations, shouldn't be downplayed either. As somebody who friggin' loved Subspace (as well as Melee's Adventure before it), it just really annoys me when I see people saying that "core gameplay" is the only thing that matters in Smash, and that all the side modes of the past, not the least of which being a side-scrolling Adventure Mode, apparently deserved to be completely chucked out for Ultimate (a sentiment I've seen quite a bit of). Plus, let's be real: Smash generates hype over the inclusion of characters, not functions.

(especially when thracia sold like ****)

To be fair, it was a Super Famicom game being released all the way into the year 2000 (almost four years after the N64 released). I wouldn't be surprised if it sold as poorly as those late 3DS remakes and ports. Not only that, but it was a physical release of a Satellaview game, so there might've been people who already downloaded the game and didn't feel like double-dipping. Though, that's just my speculation.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sakurai already made a 3D Smash Bros.

 

[Trevenant]

Same. And I forget if I pointed it out here earlier, but I think Smash just wouldn't work very well in a 3D environment. Smash has become reputable for being a mixture of the platformer and fighter genres (enough so that it pretty much codified several other attempts at such a hybrid), which makes sense considering that Nintendo's flagship franchise (as well as the obvious namesake to Smash Bros.) is primarily a platformer series. That said, I don't see Smash getting rid of the platforms lest it remove a major part of its identity. However, platforms are tricky enough to work with in a 3D environment even when making a single-player adventure game, let alone a competitive fighting game. Off the top of my head, the only game to even attempt such a thing was ARMS, and putting aside that game's rather lukewarm reception, it has something major which helped it kinda work: ranged attacks and grabs, something which not every character in Smash Bros. would have access to (though I guess to be fair, not every Nintendo character was capable of doing a double-jump along with some sort of semi-flying recovery move prior to the N64 game, either..... even then, it's not hard to see it being an expansion on the almost universal concept of jumping).


Eh, I dunno. I mean, I do get what you're saying about the gameplay being good, but I also think the crossover aspect, the ability to interact with and use these legendary characters in all kinds of situations, shouldn't be downplayed either. As somebody who friggin' loved Subspace (as well as Melee's Adventure before it), it just really annoys me when I see people saying that "core gameplay" is the only thing that matters in Smash, and that all the side modes of the past, not the least of which being a side-scrolling Adventure Mode, apparently deserved to be completely chucked out for Ultimate (a sentiment I've seen quite a bit of).

Yeah, smash's current control scheme just wouldn't work in 3d... Everything else should work fine, although with dramatic alterations, but the directional attacks would be practically impossible to seamlessly implement. How would they work? Would it be based on the camera's current perspective? Would there be some alternate way to pull off the attacks? The switch could probably circumvent this as the control sticks are technically buttons in and of themselves, meaning that it could be one way to approach it, but it's something that's absolutely not guaranteed for future hardware, and would still be way less practical... Stuff like smash kart are of course people getting way too off track...

In regards to the crossover element, I feel the Brawlhalla example I provided put it best. If smash's gameplay was any different, like say, the characters couldn't distinctly express themselves, then they'd likely just be skins... The gameplay is the main component for any fighting game TBH and probably video games in general. Whilst yes it could be argued that the crossover element is a core part of smash's identity, the gameplay is what allows us to actually care about it, as you can bet no one would be here if smash characters were treated like fortnite guest skins... The gameplay is what allows people to give a crap about the characters being uniquely expressed, therefore making the crossover aspect stringent on the gameplay... Accessible, yet with depth, and a variety of characters who appeal to different fandoms, or playstyles that appeal to different people who don't really give af about games outside of Nintendo, which could not be replicated if they were dumbed down to just a skin in a game.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Sakurai already made a 3D Smash Bros.

Bro, that's Rail Shooter, not Platform Fighter.

 

[Trevenant]

Bro, that's Rail Shooter, not Platform Fighter.

Pretty sure they were joking lol... Either way, it's not just a rail shooter lol, there are literally parts where you're fighting on the ground against enemies.. If it was a rail shooter, I doubt they'd give Pit two swords as well. Not a platform fighter, but smash would likely function similarly to that if it were somehow made 3d

 

[Dinoman96]

Bro, that's Rail Shooter, not Platform Fighter.

2/3 of the game consists of on-foot land battles, and it basically controls and plays like Smash Bros. combined with a third person shooter.

You tap the control stick to run, you use the control stick in conjuction with the attack button to do more powerful attacks, you can tech/recover, you can do get up attacks, you can do melee dash attacks, it's all very very similar to Smash. Only thing it's really missing are dedicated jumps/aerial attacks.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Pretty sure they were joking lol... Either way, it's not just a rail shooter lol, there are literally parts where you're fighting on the ground against enemies.. If it was a rail shooter, I doubt they'd give Pit two swords as well.

Bro, it doesn't mean that's Fighting Game. It's actually Beat'em up or Hack and Slash when Pit fights enemies on ground

 

[Trevenant]

Bro, it doesn't mean that's Fighting Game. It's actually Beat'em up or Hack and Slash when Pit fights enemies on ground

Which is why it was a joke lol. And I'm pretty sure it's not really either of those anyway. It's a combat centric 3d game, which is likely how smash would be if it somehow went 3d.

 

[Will]

Which is why it was a joke lol. And I'm pretty sure it's not really either of those anyway. It's a combat centric 3d game, which is likely how smash would be if it somehow went 3d.

We're not having Smash Bros become Jump Force you take that **** back right now

 

[Trevenant]

We're not having Smash Bros become Jump Force you take that **** back right now

no... and to f*** with the balance even more, they gonna add 150 characters like that other DB game.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

no... and to f*** with the balance even more, they gonna add 150 characters like that other DB game.

Yeah, spoiler for the 3D Smash game like Jump Force.
Most of Newcomers are originating from Nintendo, while rest is Third party.

 

[MinorTatu]

Who still uses forums in 2021? Go use Reddit kek

 

[Trevenant]

Who still uses forums in 2021? Go use Reddit kek

Join date today? Check.
Suggesting Reddit is better than a dead forum based on one specific game series? Check.
From Reddit? Probably, check.

Yeah, lol...

 

[DarthEnderX]

The battle royale mode could be like a side mode similiar to smash run.
(In fact smash run is already quite similiar to a battle royale mode itself)

Indeed. Bring back the Smash Run map as a Battle Royal. (64 players teleport in. Players run around killing creeps and collecting upgrades. Map shrinks over time. Last 4 surviving players have a Smash match.)

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Indeed. Bring back the Smash Run map as a Battle Royal. (64 players teleport in. Players run around killing creeps and collecting upgrades. Map shrinks over time. Last 4 surviving players have a Smash match.)

Imagine maining Jonesy during Battle Royale Mode.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Who still uses forums in 2021? Go use Reddit kek

Tried it, couldn't stand it.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Who still uses forums in 2021? Go use Reddit kek

So that means that we're gonna leave SmashBoards, right?

 

[Arcanir]

The thing, as you mentioned, IS have shown they're not above changing and revamping elements of said game when it comes to remakes. Even stuff like mila's turnwheel radically changes up how you play echoes compared to the original and it doesn't strike me that the mechanics from both games are so fundamentally important they cannot be adapted or removed for streamlining (and thracia had some, eh, really questionable gameplay mechanics that probably needs change heal missing).

More importantly, personally i think it's more realistic that they will do a single remake before moving onto a brand new game rather than doing 2 remakes simultaneously (especially when thracia sold like ****), since it keeps their brand fresh while attracting players who aren't traditionally interested in remakes (similar to how we don't see multiple remakes happening back to back for many studios). Especially since both stories happen within the same timeframe and even have a bit of crossover narrative as well. The other option being remake > new game > thracia remake seems even more unlikely either.

Personally? I think introducing thracia as dlc would be a more feasible option - you still get to see leif's story rather than not seeing it at all.

Mila's Turnwheel is more like a QoL feature, it gives you an option to go back and redo plays without restarting and is a very appreciated element, but it doesn't shake up anything major of the original formula that made up Gaiden. Nothing that was baked into the core of the original was removed, even if it was to the detriment of the game they kept them in. When it comes to the core mechanics of the game IS has not shown they're willing to massively change how they originally worked. If things like Gaiden's loathed map design was kept with little changes, there's not a strong chance they'll change anything major about FE4 or FE5's gameplay, especially when they're baked into how they play and how they tell a story like the large maps for FE4.

Additionally, they did two remakes back-to-back before: We had Shadow Dragon immediately followed up with New Mystery back in the DS era, so it's not something IS is against doing.

 

[Will]

no... and to f*** with the balance even more, they gonna add 150 characters like that other DB game.

Is it going to plagiarize metal music from actual artists just like Budokai did too?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Is it going to plagiarize metal music from actual artists just like Budokai did too?

You say that like ripping off preexisting songs isn't common in video games. Remember that whole thing about Earthbound supposedly not being able to be on the Wii VC internationally because the New Age Retro Hippie theme was too close to Johnny B. Goode?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, it's gotten quiet, so...

Random piece of trivia: Banjo-Pilot is the only Banjo-Kazooie game with no representation in Smash whatsoever. Even Grunty's Revenge has a reference (though it could very well be a coincidance).

 

[Dinoman96]

Well, it's gotten quiet, so...

Random piece of trivia: Banjo-Pilot is the only Banjo-Kazooie game with no representation in Smash whatsoever. Even Grunty's Revenge has a reference (though it could very well be a coincidance).

I assume you're talking about the way Shock Spring Jump works (whereas Kazooie immediately jumps off the pad as opposed to doing a short hop first like in the N64 games)?

Yeah that's just a coincidance lol. More than anything it was done so Banjo could have a easier and faster to use recovery move.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I assume you're talking about the way Shock Spring Jump works (whereas Kazooie immediately jumps off the pad as opposed to doing a short hop first like in the N64 games)?

Yeah that's just a coincidance lol. More than anything it was done so Banjo could have a easier and faster to use recovery move.

Yeah, you're probably right. Heck, Grunty's Revenge never even released in Japan.

 

[SPEN18]

It was definitely between Roy and Leif. IIRC the story was that Sakurai went to IS for Leif but saw early footage of Roy during the development of FE6, after which he added Roy. IIRC Marth was considered for Smash 64 and was always the first choice for an FE rep.

Okay it's good someone checked the source on this because yeah I don't see any concrete evidence for Leif. These sorts of things get tossed around so much on forums and such that I forget where they came from.

Although really the suggestion that any FE character would have been added to Melee without Marth was the one I was looking to quell.

 

[ceterisparibus]

Mila's Turnwheel is more like a QoL feature, it gives you an option to go back and redo plays without restarting and is a very appreciated element, but it doesn't shake up anything major of the original formula that made up Gaiden. Nothing that was baked into the core of the original was removed, even if it was to the detriment of the game they kept them in. When it comes to the core mechanics of the game IS has not shown they're willing to massively change how they originally worked. If things like Gaiden's loathed map design was kept with little changes, there's not a strong chance they'll change anything major about FE4 or FE5's gameplay, especially when they're baked into how they play and how they tell a story like the large maps for FE4.

Additionally, they did two remakes back-to-back before: We had Shadow Dragon immediately followed up with New Mystery back in the DS era, so it's not something IS is against doing.

The fact that they're willing to introduce new elements that help to faciliate the gameplay is fairly telling, and even if they maintain certain elements such as the maps (as you mentioned), there are other things that affect interaction outside of battles (interactive enemies in dungeons, supports) and combat-related effects (fatigue, combat arts, rebalancing of weapons/skills).
Even if Echoes is a pretty faithful remake of the original (all things considered), i don't see how the thracia stuff are so important that they have to keep to the original content, especially given my above examples and how certain elements from 5 require massive overhauls or just removals (FoW, weapon balance). Keep in mind that echoes had noticeable changes in its story compared to the original (which would also address the point about how story is baked into the gameplay. They can always adapt stuff to better fit a game)


Also, the intent for New mystery was for it to be released simultaneously with SD as a bundled story, so the context is pretty different. It's not like they decided to release remakes as different entries initially. And given how MoTE bombed - would it really be that much of a surprise if they just decided to move on to a brand new title anyway?