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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

TCT~Phantom

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Oh okay.

Sooo...what does Ys do different from other J/RPGs?

We kinda got a lot of them, and DQ Crew seems like the defacto RPG character that kinda covers all the generic scopes of a JRPG. Geno has the benefit of being an RPG character who uses ranged combat and fires ammunition out of his puppet body as well as using Star Energy in his attacks, so he is incredibly unique before even considering Timed Hits as a kit mechanic. I'm just wondering what Adon could bring to shake things up.
For starters, action rpgs tend to play very differently than turn based RPGs, so comparing Adol to Hero for insttance is kinda awkward. Its more likely he would just have a super aggro moveset from his series, based around running into the enemy, either with bump attack stuff or just by being an aggro as heck fighter. This post can explain it a lot better than I can, but the way I envision Adol as having a super momentum based playstyle. From the bump attack, damage boosts after dodges/guards, and even the basic swordplay of the Ys games, Adol would be likely a very momentum based character. Sword attacks lunging towards your enemy, sword spins and slices as you charge right in, everything is all about running in. If you want to see for yourself, watch some Ys VIII gameplay or get Ys VIII for your switch, its a blast.
 

MeteoRain

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so what does everyone want to see in the next smash game if it happens. I should also ask who does everyone think the next mario rep will be since Mario is probably guaranteed to get a new character in base roster.
The next Mario rep I think is between Geno, Waluigi, or Pauline if that one counts. The edge is probably going to Waluigi or Pauline based on how mixed the signals look with Geno and the powers that be.

Outside of a couple of Bandicoots, some Zelda characters, some retros, and some less than seldom discussed western never evers.

All I really want to see is Shantae as a full fledged fighter.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
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Dec 15, 2020
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571
Yes, that's who he is using this statement for. Terry Bogard and Samus Aran. That's the level he feels require this sort of addendum. They're not exactly the most underground characters out there.
Maybe not Samus but Terry ain't exactly Mr Popular.

No, if you say something needs to be x, not just y, they also need to be y. They need to be both.

If someone says you need to wear shoes, not just socks, do you think they're saying you don't have to wear socks?
Something doesn't have be anything. You missed the point of that statement. It meant that both can be good but y isn't a requirement especially as much as x.

Also there are shoes that don't require socks so that analogy was poor.

Here's the fallacy of detracting from big names. It doesn't make the smaller names that much likelier, because this detraction isn't going to invalidate all the big names. Let's look at your Heihachi example. He didn't choose Heihachi... so... did he pick Klonoa? KOS-MOS? Valkyrie? No. He went with another big name from Tekken, another face of that series. This is the antithesis of what you want to prove.

It's like saying Sakurai/Smash is unpredictable. That's doesn't help the case for anyone. All it does it make some likelier characters seem less likely.


Ok. Here's how I'll justify them. Because even under the specific criteria that already separates them from a standard inclusion (that you've ignored) in which most of those examples were selected, we got IC, G&W, ROB and Shulk, and not Mr. Stevenson, Diskun, Parabo, and Aeron. Even when Sakurai was specifically seeking historically relevant characters, we got the option representing the Game & Watch, not the Famicom Disk System. The NES, not the Satellaview. Why do think even the surprise characters like DHD, WFT and PP have, despite being surprising, all been very recognizable? Sakurai even said he went with DHD and PP because of how ubiquitous they were.

So even in very contained, sparsely-populated categories, he still went with the more recognizable option. Though it's also disingenuous to highlight an instance of Sakurai, for example, specifically looking for a retro NES character and going, "see!" as if that applies to your standard inclusion. The retro rep spot doesn't even exist anymore anyway. You're going back to Melee for an example like that, when they still included Japan-only characters.

So, let me turn it around and ask this. Who did we get? Shinjiro, Bianca, Tooty, Billy Kane, Hilda, Mechanica, Jecht, Morag, Marduk and Aqua, or Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya and Sora? Could the alternative, less recognizable list of characters not be made fun? Of course they could. Every character listed could be made fun with enough creativity. But we didn't even get one not-very-recognizable alternative.

If you're going to say it's not because of recognizability, it's because of general popularity, I'd say well... that's tantamount to the same quality being favored, being "big". Or at least, bigger. Either way, that's going to put the same characters at an advantage and the same ones at a disadvantage.

The fact that you're so downplaying recognizability shows how much it's taken for granted. Can you even go through the Ultimate newcomers and isolate one character who isn't highly recognizable, at least from their respective series? It's an incredibly consistent trend, almost unbroken.
Yeah Sherlock, Unpopular things can have some degree of relevance and popularity. Who knew. That still doesn't change the fact that still unpopular in the bigger picture. Yeah G&W may have popular than the Disk System, Banjo over Tootie, Min Min over Machinica, Terry over Billy Kane? That still doesn't make them less niche.

That could easily be said the other way around? Sora over Tetris block? Banjo over Chief, Joker over COD? Exactly.

Recognition isn't the defining factor. Shouldn't really the case either. I don't get the obsession of Smash being a case of fawning over popularity and big corporations patting themselves on the back for be fortunate to big name IPS just for people to go "WOAH!" and nothing else.

If people going to call Smash "Celebration of Gaming" how about actually celebrating all of gaming and not just big names?

Otherwise you might as well call it Super Famous Bros being the celebration of popularity and revenue. The same reason I opposed that 4th Party guy earlier because at that case, Smash is just all about Recognizablity, why have the gaming barrier at all? Let everyone in Who can get as recognizable as Superman? Goku? SpiderMan? Mickey? Buzz? Hello Kitty? They are as recognizable and most popular than most in gaming so let them in.

Who cares for what Smash was about or a vision of having a great game. Just have big names and call it a day.
 

Lyncario

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I do find it a little odd that Dark Souls got NO CONTENT whatsoever
I agree, and I think we can put Ace Attorney and Puyo Puyo on a similar note, though for them it's more because of how much history they have with Nintendo rather than being one of the most influencial series from the previous decade.
 
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You know that the 3rd Party Character picks are need to be type of characters that hepave deep relationship with Nintendo like Puyo Puyo or Ace Attorney like Lyncario said.

Also, the Guests that are important to Nintendo's history are Sans, Master Chief (whose company has huge partnership with Nintendo), Monokuma and Conker.
 

Yamat08

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Oct 11, 2021
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I agree, and I think we can put Ace Attorney and Puyo Puyo on a similar note, though for them it's more because of how much history they have with Nintendo rather than being one of the most influencial series from the previous decade.
Xenosaga too, because of Monolith if nothing else.

For starters, action rpgs tend to play very differently than turn based RPGs, so comparing Adol to Hero for insttance is kinda awkward. Its more likely he would just have a super aggro moveset from his series, based around running into the enemy, either with bump attack stuff or just by being an aggro as heck fighter. This post can explain it a lot better than I can, but the way I envision Adol as having a super momentum based playstyle. From the bump attack, damage boosts after dodges/guards, and even the basic swordplay of the Ys games, Adol would be likely a very momentum based character. Sword attacks lunging towards your enemy, sword spins and slices as you charge right in, everything is all about running in. If you want to see for yourself, watch some Ys VIII gameplay or get Ys VIII for your switch, its a blast.
So this "bump attack" would be like a dash attack or a Forward-B, right? Because there's no touch damage in Smash (and really, touch damage in any fighting game seems like it'd be brokenAF).
 

Yamat08

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You know that the 3rd Party Character picks are need to be type of characters that hepave deep relationship with Nintendo like Puyo Puyo or Ace Attorney like Lyncario said.

Also, the Guests that are important to Nintendo's history are Sans, Master Chief (whose company has huge partnership with Nintendo), Monokuma and Conker.
Wait a minute, how is Monokuma, in any way, "important to Nintendo's history"? Dangan Ronpa was only ported to the Switch VERY recently (after not having a single release on a Nintendo system prior). Undertale also has little if anything to do with "Nintendo's history", given that it grew in popularity BEFORE finally being ported to the Switch (and not long prior to Ultimate's release, might I add), though I could maybe buy the idea of Master Chief being commemorative of Nintendo's good relations with Microsoft (and having a skin in Minecraft, for whatever that's worth). Of the ones you listed, only Conker really has a case when talking about a history with Nintendo (though even then, it's worth noting that Conker's Bad Fur Day, and Conker's Pocket Tales for that matter, didn't get a release in Japan, leaving Diddy Kong Racing as his only appearance over there, at least on a Nintendo system..... Live & Reloaded and Rare Replay did get Japanese releases though, which is ironic given the Xbox's lack of popularity over there).

When Dark Souls, Puyo Puyo, Ace Attorney, and The World Ends With You get jack diddly squat but freakin WARFRAME gets a spirit

not mad, just confused
In retrospect, I took it as a good sign when a game didn't get any content, because once any series got a Spirit Board event or a Mii costume, it more or less came off as Nintendo's way of saying "this is all your getting". Not only that, but just as it seemed like there was a horrible lack of content for Final Fantasy VII, Xenoblade2, and no Spirit event for Three Houses, DLC came along to show us otherwise. But now that Ultimate is over, and it's been confirmed that we won't even be getting new Spirits in the future, the lack of anything for these series does come off like a devestating blow, as if none of them were even worth bothering with. Hopefully, the next Smash will prove that not to be the case (though if this really is the end of Everyone Is Here, it'll be all the more of a shame that none of these series could've participated in that even when they finally are in Smash).
 

Rie Sonomura

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My only guess is that Warframe was probably a lot cheaper to get the rights for a spirit. That’s the only way it makes sense to me.
Did Sakurai even talk about Warframe at any point?
Does anyone remember Fragile Dreams?

View attachment 337905
Ooooh that game!! It so needs a rerelease! I remember watching a play through back in the day but never finished it for some reason
 

HyperSomari64

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If Masterpieces returns to Smash 6, let the team behind add a demo of GBA's Sonic Genesis as a joke, but with the audio completely muted and having Green Hill Zone in the background.
 

Wonder Smash

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Doc would be a great assist trophy with design choices aplenty but prolly not his nes version to which my friends young sister once asked and I quote

"Why is that fat guy chasing that little old woman?"
Shouldn't it be the other way around?

You know that the 3rd Party Character picks are need to be type of characters that hepave deep relationship with Nintendo like Puyo Puyo or Ace Attorney like Lyncario said.

Also, the Guests that are important to Nintendo's history are Sans, Master Chief (whose company has huge partnership with Nintendo), Monokuma and Conker.
But he himself has no history with Nintendo.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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:ultkrool:: Give him two Final Smashes, Blast-o-Matic when he's winning, and the Kredits if he's in second place or lower
I don't dislike the idea but I'm not sure how Kredits would even work as a Final Smash. In Donkey Kong Country he fakes his defeat as Donkey Kong cheers, and fake credits begin rolling. Afterwards, he wakes up and starts attacking again, catching new players off-guard. I'm struggling to see how that would work as an attack, unless it was some very weird counter or something.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Disney has their crossover in the works which is unique than a generic Smash Clone.

If Smash 6 was like this, wouldn't you mind?
 
D

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I don't dislike the idea but I'm not sure how Kredits would even work as a Final Smash. In Donkey Kong Country he fakes his defeat as Donkey Kong cheers, and fake credits begin rolling. Afterwards, he wakes up and starts attacking again, catching new players off-guard. I'm struggling to see how that would work as an attack, unless it was some very weird counter or something.
He has a limited window to get hit by another player once the Final Smash is activated. Then I assume the credits scroll down the center while he's down
 
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Wonder Smash

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Disney has their crossover in the works which is unique than a generic Smash Clone.

If Smash 6 was like this, wouldn't you mind?
And just to think, Dissidia was created because Tetsuya Nomura didn't like the idea of classic Disney characters fighting each other.
 
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Laniv

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I don't dislike the idea but I'm not sure how Kredits would even work as a Final Smash. In Donkey Kong Country he fakes his defeat as Donkey Kong cheers, and fake credits begin rolling. Afterwards, he wakes up and starts attacking again, catching new players off-guard. I'm struggling to see how that would work as an attack, unless it was some very weird counter or something.
I imagine it would work similarly to how it is in DKC. Upon activation, K. Rool goes into an exaggerated crumple animation and lies prone on the ground, causing all opponents to taunt for the duration. As they taunt, Kredits that act like platforms (think the Trowlons from SSE) quickly scroll up from the bottom, taking does with them to the blast line. While the Kredits are scrolling, K. Rool himself can crawl around and sweep at opponents' legs, forcing them to trip and be caught by further Kredits.
 

SneakyLink

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Disney has their crossover in the works which is unique than a generic Smash Clone.

If Smash 6 was like this, wouldn't you mind?
Found the music that'll be used if they ever add the Simpsons to this Disney crossover:


In seriousness, a Smash style Racing game would be where I start. Or a Smash style party game.
 

Cap'n Jack

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I really think a Bethesda rep will happen for the next game, but who is most likely?
 
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DanganZilla5

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I really think a Bethesda rep will happen for the next game, but who is most likely?
Good question. Their two likeliest reps are definitely Doomguy and Dragonborn. Both of them have similar merits: Their series are highly influential to their respective genres, they both have been around for about 3 decades, they both got a Mii costume, and they have at least one appearance on the Switch. Doomguy does have more requests but I think Dragonborn is more likely than him because FPS games don't typically sell too well in Japan. Meanwhile, the region loves Skyrim. It sold well over there, got a perfect score on Famitsu, and inspired games like Zelda BOTW. And considering Japan is where Smash is made and is where most of the characters come from, that's a big deal. If you want to learn more, I'll leave my Dragonborn essay below (Yes I'm shilling it again).

Bethesda also does have Wolfenstein and Dishonored but I don't see those happening for various reeasons.
 

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Chuderz

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I really hope they don't bother with Smash Ultimate DX if it's just going to be a Mario Kart 8 DX style approach.

As a true Smash 6 with 3/4 years of development behind it yes please!!!!!!!!!! It's my dream game haha but if that's to be the case then Sakurai and team will have to start work on it lowkey soon which at this time doesn't feel quite right to expect.

I imagine he'll definitely be taking that vacation at the very least but he might just not want to do it even after that. Maybe he will, like nothing he's said so far makes it seem out of the question that his next project is Ultimate's sequel but still since it's so soon after Ultimate I just feel silly thinking about it. Though that was what happened with Smash 4 to Ultimate so we can't definitely count it out either. I hope so and I hope they go with the full-blown sequel route rather than the slightly enhanced edition route.

At least this thread exists for me to dump my dreams for Smash into. Speaking of which I hope Sakurai reconsiders aerial Smash attacks! It's a good idea and I've always wanted it in the game but it always felt too far-fetched to openly speculate on... Until the man himself had the very same idea!
 
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Geno Boost

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The most sold Nintendo franchise that doesn’t have a playable character yet is brain age/big brain academy that sold in total more than 34 million I kinda have the feeling that the reason why Dr. Lobe or Dr. Kawashima isn’t playable yet due to being unable to make a moveset with the current source material and it would require a lot of creativity regarding that similar to Nintendogs situation
 
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DanganZilla5

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I joked with you all last night, but for real you all are sleeping hard on Dragonborn. I'd argue he is possibly the likeliest Microsoft character, including Master Chief. Sure the Chief gives him stiff competition but Dragonborn holds his own against the space marines. He has the history, impact, relevance, moveset potential, and Skyrim's sheer iconic power to make him a solid candidate.
 

Gengar84

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Remember the Retro Rep speculation:
I think Mach Rider or ExciteBiker could join the Battle soon.
I don’t know much about either game but I imagine Mach Rider would be the more interesting fighter of the two. Excite Bike was more of a sports game with a nameless playable character where I think Mach Rider was action and was an actual character.
 

Sucumbio

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Bubble Lead.

Go!

It's Led like lead pencil.

No it's Lead like it leads you on a path!

Yeah because it's heavy.

Leeeeeed.

Led.

$punchmehard

(Led tho).
 
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