Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Stratos]

If Bomberman comes as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series then that will be good, but the question is, will his stage be based on his NES game or from Super Bomberman R? It definitely won't be based on the first game in the Bomberman franchise though, and I have two images below for those who don't know:

 

[DarthEnderX]

Bonk has an animation where he climbs ledges with his teeth. So he automatically wins Smash entry.

I think momotaro is the 2nd

I don't know who that is.

opens google

Some kind of...train themed board game? That's never come out in NA.

It must be really popular in Japan if you think it's 2nd place.

 

[Geno Boost]

Konami is weird for keeping a lot of franchises Japanese exclusive for whatever reason
There is
-Most Goemon games
-Entire quiz magic academy
-bombergirl
-entire tokimeki memorial
-entire momotaro dentetsu
There is probably more franchise that are like that

 

[Stratos]

The only issue with that is Takahashi Meijin is a real-life person and the game character is based on him. So that might put him in 4th Party territory.

Besides, Bonk is clearly the better choice for savage Hudson Soft character.

In the end maybe Bonk is better since Master Higgins' Japanese name is of a real-life person.

 

[Perkilator]

On the topic of Alear, I always insist that there’s a way to represent the Engage mechanic without shoehorning existing FE reps; Alear becomes the 13th Emblem near the end of the story, and thus can Engage with any unit in the game. Ergo, through that method, you can translate the Engage mechanic to having Alear summon Alfred, Diamant, Timerra and Ivy for their specials when in Engage mode.

 

[Oracle Link]

Toadette/Peachette would be cool.
Baby Mario/Luigi maybe...
Who else would make decent echos?

So let me quickly do this:

Sheik to Impa
both dont have many canon moves and are sheikah diffrences would be their Taunts (Sheik uses a harp as a taunt) aswell as maybe giving
impa a short Sheikah dagger!

Metaknight to morpho Knight/ Galacta Knight
Morpho would have a bigger sword but be slower while galacta knight would be more frail and have a shield to block

Sonic to tails
I know unusual choice but just like shadow tails has a similar moveset to sonic (and both need new runcycles so the tail thing isnt really an issue) The diffrences are less damage or more frail but gaining a glide after the spring special!

Quajutsu into a Zora
More of a semi echo than anything but lets say we get a goron and impa in smash 6 maybe we could get skullkid and a zora for smash 7?
And while a lot of the specials have to change zora to have a Counter/ Shield and a throwable projectile! And Zoras have sharp fins after all!

Mewtwo to Gyiyg (earthbound Giegue/ Giygas)
Mewtwo is already based on Gyiyg so why not make it full circle and make Gyiyg a Mewtu Echo?
The Changes would be voicelines based on both of his Bossbattles (the concept is that this Gyiyg is in the middle of becomming the red swirly Skull thingy) The Psychic and dark efects are replaced with diffrent Skull Thingy Gyiyg Sprites!
And for the final smash he fully sucumbs to madness turn into the master of all evil deals a lot of damge before turning back!

 

[Geno Boost]

Would you prefer urban champion or hitmonchan as echo fighter?
I know hitmonchan could basically have his punches be elemental
However urban champion was one of the characters that were planned for melee

 

[Deleted member]

Would you prefer urban champion or hitmonchan as echo fighter?

Urban Champion is a bad game, so that's the better idea.

 

[Oracle Link]

Konami is weird for keeping a lot of franchises Japanese exclusive for whatever reason
There is
-Most Goemon games
-Entire quiz magic academy
-bombergirl
-entire tokimeki memorial
-entire momotaro dentetsu
There is probably more franchise that are like that

Granted theres also a case recently were people complained that the metal gear solid PORT is a Metal Gear Solid PORT!
I guess those same people think the resi 2 and 3 "Remakes" An FF7"R" are in any way shape or form a replacement for the og games?
And no i havent played Resi but i watched a 2 hour video chroniceling the diffrences and yeah modern Resi 2 an 3 are diffrent games!

 

[Will]

Urban Champion is a bad game, so that's the better idea.

No one asked you.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I don’t really agree with the idea of making Shadow or Tails a “no-brainer” echo of Sonic, at least by the logic that echoing a character kinda snips their potential in the butt without much chance of decloning. Sonic’s moveset is already dingy, but considering that a lot of the moves comes from Sonic The Fighters (where each character had unique animations, including Tails obviously) it just makes them going over him more of a “round-peg-into-square-hole” situation than D.Samus or Daisy. Granted, I’m overstating Tails being a mismatch here, but it still wouldn’t be satisfying to have him 1-to-1 grafted onto Sonic, considering the above and all the extra things you could do with him given everything from SA2 to Frontiers (yes I know the dlc was flubbed but still)

On that note, I get that going out of your way to represent Sonic 06 or Shadow the Hedgehog is conceptually kinda dumb, but Sonic in smash is very much leaning towards the genesis era of sonic with how he’s built, homing attack notwithstanding. It just wouldn’t be a good fit for the character beyond the surface-level.

My horrible solution to this though is to add Classic Sonic, give him Sonic’s legacy moveset, and then give Sonic a brand-new moveset that glues together how he plays in sa2 and frontiers. That’s right, I’m the tool who STILL wants Sonic to have 4+ reps on the roster. Saddest thing to happen in dream roster speculation imo is how Sonic as a franchise went from “well we NEED the entire core cast in there because it’s Mario vs Sonic!” to “Maybe Eggman or Tails if you’re lucky, but not both at the same time because we need to be realistic here”. Like, I get why, but man…

 

[fogbadge]

on the subject of alear having other characters movesets. i think it's a terrible idea for a few reasons

first of all getting another characters moveset is just not how the emblems work in engage. if you want a character who can become other characters then go with someone who's known for doing it in their own game like ditto or wisp and blanca from anaimal crossing. or indeed any character from another fighting game that can do that. also it would be a waste for alear, there's plenty of things he can do that would make him unique enough. what perkilator always suggest is a good idea. and after byleth i'm certainly not in favour of characters being based on other characters instead of themselves. i also think it would end up annoying more people, not just the people who say there's too much fire emblem on the roster but people who will be disappointed when their favourite gets left out.

 

[Gengar84]

on the subject of alear having other characters movesets. i think it's a terrible idea for a few reasons

first of all getting another characters moveset is just not how the emblems work in engage. if you want a character who can become other characters then go with someone who's known for doing it in their own game like ditto or wisp and blanca from anaimal crossing. or indeed any character from another fighting game that can do that. also it would be a waste for alear, there's plenty of things he can do that would make him unique enough. what perkilator always suggest is a good idea. and after byleth i'm certainly not in favour of characters being based on other characters instead of themselves. i also think it would end up annoying more people, not just the people who say there's too much fire emblem on the roster but people who will be disappointed when their favourite gets left out.

Now I want Edgemaster from Soul Calibur who would randomly get the moveset of any humanoid playable character in the game. That would be pretty interesting actually.

 

[BuckleyTim]

My pocket pick for "character that could mimic other characters" is Zoroark due to the whole illusions gimmick. That's not entirely how it works in the game but it kinda works like that in its anime appearances and since smash tends to defer to the anime for how to model the pokes it would kinda work.

...as long as Zoroark is the only non-legendary mon to pop out of master balls (ignoring Goldeen as the joke pick), I will hold onto the faint hope that they might somehow be in the running for adding another pokemon that isn't from the most recent gen. Is that an impossibility given how fast GF cranks out new mascots? Yes, but I gotta believe...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Metaknight to morpho Knight/ Galacta Knight

Galacta Knight should be Meta Knight's echo. Dark Meta Knight should be one of Meta Knight's alts. And Morpho Knight should be one of Galacta Knight's alts.

Would you prefer urban champion or hitmonchan as echo fighter?

No cross-franchise echoes!

My pocket pick for "character that could mimic other characters" is Zoroark due to the whole illusions gimmick.

I mean...Ditto is RIGHT THERE, and is already partially implemented in Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

My brother and I had a sort of complicated but fun idea for Zoroark. It would be more of a secret character who wouldn’t actually appear on the character select screen but if you held a button when selecting any character, it would actually be a Zoroark transformed as that character. When the character takes a set amount of damage, they transform back into Zoroark for the rest of the match. Alternatively, Zoroark could also appear on the select screen like everyone else but just wouldn’t start transformed if you choose it that way.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm not sure about Alear anymore or Engage for that matter. I like it but it's not as fun as 3H. I think if they are making a new game for the new system to come out in its first year then the new FE protag will be from it and not Engage. Engage feels more like a console attempt at FeH without the gacha obv

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not sure about Alear anymore or Engage for that matter. I like it but it's not as fun as 3H. I think if they are making a new game for the new system to come out in its first year then the new FE protag will be from it and not Engage. Engage feels more like a console attempt at FeH without the gacha obv

Engage just never really appealed to me. I’ve bought and enjoyed every mainline Fire Emblem game since Path of Radiance but I just didn’t care for the direction they took this one. I’d love another game like PoR or RD because those are still my favorites. I miss being able to recruit units by talking to them on the battlefield. That’s something Three Houses was missing.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don’t really agree with the idea of making Shadow or Tails a “no-brainer” echo of Sonic, at least by the logic that echoing a character kinda snips their potential in the butt without much chance of decloning. Sonic’s moveset is already dingy, but considering that a lot of the moves comes from Sonic The Fighters (where each character had unique animations, including Tails obviously) it just makes them going over him more of a “round-peg-into-square-hole” situation than D.Samus or Daisy. Granted, I’m overstating Tails being a mismatch here, but it still wouldn’t be satisfying to have him 1-to-1 grafted onto Sonic, considering the above and all the extra things you could do with him given everything from SA2 to Frontiers (yes I know the dlc was flubbed but still)

On that note, I get that going out of your way to represent Sonic 06 or Shadow the Hedgehog is conceptually kinda dumb, but Sonic in smash is very much leaning towards the genesis era of sonic with how he’s built, homing attack notwithstanding. It just wouldn’t be a good fit for the character beyond the surface-level.

My horrible solution to this though is to add Classic Sonic, give him Sonic’s legacy moveset, and then give Sonic a brand-new moveset that glues together how he plays in sa2 and frontiers. That’s right, I’m the tool who STILL wants Sonic to have 4+ reps on the roster. Saddest thing to happen in dream roster speculation imo is how Sonic as a franchise went from “well we NEED the entire core cast in there because it’s Mario vs Sonic!” to “Maybe Eggman or Tails if you’re lucky, but not both at the same time because we need to be realistic here”. Like, I get why, but man…

I feel like they should change one of Sonic's spin dashes with the Sonic boost that was introduced in Rush and continues to be part of his attacks in later Sonic games.

Him having two spin dashes was always stupid

 

[Kirbeh]

Now I want Edgemaster from Soul Calibur who would randomly get the moveset of any humanoid playable character in the game. That would be pretty interesting actually.

Put in Ocladan, his moveset changes every stock.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like they should change one of Sonic's spin dashes with the Sonic boost that was introduced in Rush and continues to be part of his attacks in later Sonic games.

Him having two spin dashes was always stupid

I don’t even fully understand the difference between the two or how to use them effectively. I use Sonic on occasion like every other character but I never feel like I know what I’m doing with him. I feel like Jigglypuff’s spin dash is easier to use personally.

 

[Laniv]

Toadette/Peachette would be cool.
Baby Mario/Luigi maybe...
Who else would make decent echos?

Well, besides characters already mentioned, I think Lakitu could make a decent Bowser Jr. echo. Maybe Machoke or Machamp for Incineroar. Perhaps if Tom Nook gets in, Redd could be his echo.

Question: could Alm have worked as a Roy echo?

Would you prefer urban champion or hitmonchan as echo fighter?
I know hitmonchan could basically have his punches be elemental
However urban champion was one of the characters that were planned for melee

Please consider: Glass Joe.

 

[Sucumbio]

Engage just never really appealed to me. I’ve bought and enjoyed every mainline Fire Emblem game since Path of Radiance but I just didn’t care for the direction they took this one. I’d love another game like PoR or RD because those are still my favorites. I miss being able to recruit units by talking to them on the battlefield. That’s something Three Houses was missing.

Yeah that was a really nice way to recruit. Although on the flip side it got kinda ridiculous with the whole stand exactly squares down one left from the top corner to recruit someone lol. I needed a faq for some of those and one time I think it was Stefan happened totally by accident lol!

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah that was a really nice way to recruit. Although on the flip side it got kinda ridiculous with the whole stand exactly squares down one left from the top corner to recruit someone lol. I needed a faq for some of those and one time I think it was Stefan happened totally by accident lol!

lol yeah, Stefan was probably a little too cryptic. I’m not sure how anyone would ever unlock him without using a guide. I think there should at least be some kind of in game hint of what to do to recruit a character or which maps have a recruitable character. I probably don’t want them to just spell it out for you because the mystery is part of the fun but the player should be able to reasonably figure it out. The ability to replay maps in case you missed something would be helpful too.

 

[Louie G.]

Please consider: Glass Joe.

Glass Joe is too different in size and skeleton to be an echo fighter of Little Mac, and of course would demand pretty drastic animation reworks to sell how relatively weak he is. I'd love for him to be a joke character but it would definitely demand more work than a simple clone and well, I'd rather they work on making Little Mac himself more viable since it seems a bit silly to add an intentionally bad character to compliment an unintentionally bad one.

I wanna use this as a springboard to mention one of Smash's greatest travesties again, which is the lack of any Punch-Out AT. Glass Joe would be a great pick in the same vein as Starfy, but more original things can be done with characters like King Hippo, Super Macho Man or Bald Bull. There's no wrong answer IMO. It simply baffles me why Punch-Out got neglected in this department twice over when it has such striking and fun characters to select from.

 

[Garteam]

I think if they are making a new game for the new system to come out in its first year then the new FE protag will be from it and not Engage.

I think if there were one Fire Emblem character that could genuinely drum up a lot of hype, it would be Sigurd after a Genealogy remake (assuming the remake was made well and kept to the spirit of the original game). Fire Emblem fans would get the benefit of having a popular fan favourite finally join the roster, while those unfamiliar with Fire Emblem get to see the absurdity of a horseback character in a fighting game.

 

[Kirbeh]

Well, besides characters already mentioned, I think Lakitu could make a decent Bowser Jr. echo. Maybe Machoke or Machamp for Incineroar. Perhaps if Tom Nook gets in, Redd could be his echo.

Question: could Alm have worked as a Roy echo?

Please consider: Glass Joe.

I think it'd be kind of weird for the clown kart's weapons to be popping out of Lakitu's cloud. I honestly feel like that's kind of forcing Lakitu into the spot for the sake of giving Jr an echo. If they ever go past the 8 costume limit then maybe they could add him and a couple others to pilot the kart as well?

Machoke I think could reasonably fit for Incineroar but at that point I'd rather have a unique Machamp if we're representing that line.

Nook and Redd would really have to depend on how they make Nook, so I don't really know on that one.

As for Mac, I honestly don't think any of the other boxers in Punch Out are good fits for echoes honestly. I would like to see Glass Joe or King Hippo or Mr. Sandman, etc but I don't really them doing stuff like Mac's Straight Lunge for example. Well, maybe Sandman. Perhaps a semi clone could work in his case.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wanna use this as a springboard to mention one of Smash's greatest travesties again, which is the lack of any Punch-Out AT. Glass Joe would be a great pick in the same vein as Starfy, but more original things can be done with characters like King Hippo, Super Macho Man or Bald Bull.

If he's not gonna be a Fighter, King Hippo should definitely be an AT.

So should Eggplant Wizard.

And Mother Brain should be a Boss, where the King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard ATs keep dropping in.

 

[Will]

King Hippo is a better Assist Trophy and/or Boss than a character, imo. I’d personally prefer Super Macho Man or Mr. Sandman if we ever somehow get a second Punch-Out character

 

[smashkirby]

Would you prefer urban champion or hitmonchan as echo fighter?
I know hitmonchan could basically have his punches be elemental
However urban champion was one of the characters that were planned for melee

I've actually had a thought that Urban Champion could be reimagined in Smash, making him like Smash's answer to Cody Travers from Final Fight/Street Fighter, utilizing weapons like a manhole cover or a flowerpot in addition to punching and overall dirty fighting, compared to Mac's proper boxing skills.

 

[Perkilator]

Question: could Alm have worked as a Roy echo?

I think Alm would make more sense as a Link Echo, since Alm is a left-handed swordsman and he even gains a shield of his own upon promotion.

 

[Ivander]

I think Alm would make more sense as a Link Echo, since Alm is a left-handed swordsman and he even gains a shield of his own upon promotion.

I mean, so do Marth, Chrom and Lucina, but their shields didn't appear with them.

 

[Perkilator]

I mean, so do Marth, Chrom and Lucina, but their shields didn't appear with them.

That's not the point I'm trying to make, though I guess I should've also mentioned that Alm gains access to a bow in that same class I mentioned.

Anyway, my main point is that when Alm gains access to the Hero class in Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia, he gains access to a shield and bow. This, combined with the fact that Alm is left-handed, is why I suggested him as a Link Echo. Just base Alm off of Link's Sm4sh moveset, change the side and down specials and you're golden.

 

[Garteam]

If we're talking Punch-Out, I want to see Mike Tyson punch Cloud in the face with his left fist and toss Jigglypuff into the abyss with his right.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I don’t really agree with the idea of making Shadow or Tails a “no-brainer” echo of Sonic, at least by the logic that echoing a character kinda snips their potential in the butt without much chance of decloning. Sonic’s moveset is already dingy, but considering that a lot of the moves comes from Sonic The Fighters (where each character had unique animations, including Tails obviously) it just makes them going over him more of a “round-peg-into-square-hole” situation than D.Samus or Daisy. Granted, I’m overstating Tails being a mismatch here, but it still wouldn’t be satisfying to have him 1-to-1 grafted onto Sonic, considering the above and all the extra things you could do with him given everything from SA2 to Frontiers (yes I know the dlc was flubbed but still)

On that note, I get that going out of your way to represent Sonic 06 or Shadow the Hedgehog is conceptually kinda dumb, but Sonic in smash is very much leaning towards the genesis era of sonic with how he’s built, homing attack notwithstanding. It just wouldn’t be a good fit for the character beyond the surface-level.

My horrible solution to this though is to add Classic Sonic, give him Sonic’s legacy moveset, and then give Sonic a brand-new moveset that glues together how he plays in sa2 and frontiers. That’s right, I’m the tool who STILL wants Sonic to have 4+ reps on the roster. Saddest thing to happen in dream roster speculation imo is how Sonic as a franchise went from “well we NEED the entire core cast in there because it’s Mario vs Sonic!” to “Maybe Eggman or Tails if you’re lucky, but not both at the same time because we need to be realistic here”. Like, I get why, but man…

But why go for Classic Sonic for his echo, when there's a literal "clone" of Sonic?

 

[Sucumbio]

If we're talking Punch-Out, I want to see Mike Tyson punch Cloud in the face with his left fist and toss Jigglypuff into the abyss with his right.

Dude! I never beat him I had to settle for Mr Dream bc I was at a friends house when I played Tyson and also only 10 but then in HS I bought a NES and beat Punch Out that was a day or days. I 100 percent endorse Mr. Dream/Mike Tyson haha but unfortunately

This is the really real world!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think Alm would make more sense as a Link Echo, since Alm is a left-handed swordsman and he even gains a shield of his own upon promotion.

If we had to have a character from Gaiden i think it would be good to have Celica as a Robin echo.

Since both use a mix of magic and sword play.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

As far as changes for the Marth's go. I'd personally opt for giving Roy a couple more differences again and adjusting Chrom and Lucina accordingly:
- Remains mostly the same and continues to serve as the base for the others.
- Echoes Marth, serving as an in between of Marth and Chrom.
- Echoes Roy, serving as in between of Marth and Roy. Give Skyward Slash the option of being direction forward as well, doubling as better horizontal recovery and referencing the duel at Arena Ferox. Give the same to Lucina.
- Further differentiated from Marth. Still clearly based on him but given a few more unique moves.

Basically, a gradual shift between two move sets between four characters. Lucina works as being the closest to Marth since she spends a good while masquerading as him and of course being his descendant,

Chrom's not a graceful fighter so having him closer to Smash's "rougher" Roy as Ultimate already did was a good move.

If possible, I would like for a one or two, (maybe three?) unique normals and maybe a special to be given to Chrom and Lucina. They could share these as moves unique to them not taken from either Marth/Roy).


It is outsourced, but it's still Nintendo's game. If Nintendo wants them to do something a certain way, they can ask the team at Namco to do so. The manpower is there, they even tried to work it out, but likely due to time constraints and the many issues involving the many variables in a game of Smash, they dropped it and continued with the delay based netcode they already had.

I brought up Namco's involvement in the other two because you seem to be hung up on the fact that Namco's making it. And I agree, Namco has also been very stubborn when it comes to adding rollback.

The manpower is there, they even tried to work it out, but likely due to time constraints and the many issues involving the many variables in a game of Smash, they dropped it and continued with the delay based netcode they already had.

So nothing related to Nintendo themselves

it's still Nintendo's game. They mostly let Sakurai do his thing, but they do have the ability to step in and make requests or mandates. They still get final say.

You keep repeating "Still it's Nintendo game" without understanding what that actually entails. Nintendo's game in terms being a game mostly based on Nintendo IPs, published and exclusive on the Nintendo Platforms. Sure.

final say when comes to advertising, basic guidelines, legal requirements and constraints with other parties involved or the occasional check-up on character representation. Other than that, it's all on Sakurai and his team at Bamco. They have literally admitted they couldn't do without the latter.

Nintendo themselves are also only recently coming around.

MK8D and Arms came out almost 7 years ago. Idk about you but i wouldn't call that "recently"

If Bomberman comes as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series then that will be good, but the question is, will his stage be based on his NES game or from Super Bomberman R? It definitely won't be based on the first game in the Bomberman franchise though, and I have two images below for those who don't know:

Mostly Bomberman R. It's the latest edition so far and it is the look associated to Nintendo the most with the game be notable for the Switch Platform. If the Successor is a Switch ofc

 

[Sucumbio]

Hmm...

casters/summoners/druids

Maria Renard
Sypha Belnades
Aya Brea
Terra Branford
...
This could be a long list...

 

[Nickthebrick1]

Hey guys, what kind of non-starter line pokemon do you want in smash. While I like Greninja and Incineroar, I would like to break the mold on that front. Personally I think Eevee, Gengar, and even a different legendary pokemon would be an interesting fit. Do you think more legendary pokemon should be in smash? If so, who?