Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

Changing the theme, if MonolithSoft got characters after their work in Brawl, why Game Arts (Grandia) and/or Paon (Karnov) couldn't get any major representation in the following games? (or in the next one)

 

[Speed Weed]

Changing the theme, if MonolithSoft got characters after their work in Brawl, why Game Arts (Grandia) and/or Paon (Karnov) couldn't get any major representation in the following games? (or in the next one)

I mean....Monolith worked on a notable Nintendo property after they did stuff for brawl, so they had an easy way in. Game Arts and Paon didn't

though they should totally put Alisia Dragoon and the Windjammers in Smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Currently, "yes" has three times as many votes as the next option.

"Somewhere in the middle" is the next popular.

"No" is last, but it's actually close to "Somewhere in the middle."

So far it's overwhelmingly "yes."

 

[Pupp135]

Imo, I liked everyone is here as it allowed every prior character to have a chance in the spotlight, and no one’s favorite fighter from a prior game is scrapped. While I’d want it to be a mainstay, I accept that this approach is unsustainable given development time, budget, and licensing.

 

[Ivander]

I honestly think it was a good thing overall. Sure, for a next big Smash game, it's not going to happen again(mostly due to the 3rd Parties), but it still made a hell of an opening for Smash Ultimate's first official trailer alongside Ridley(and Daisy too) finally joining Smash.

That said, with AI steadily becoming a useful tool for helping with developing and programming, it would be nice if it got to that point where we wouldn't need to worry about Nintendo characters being cut and maybe make it somewhat easier to develop some fighters, stages, etc. Probably not going to happen for the next Smash Bros, but the Smash Bros. games after that one? It's possible.

 

[Sucumbio]

EiH was a good thing. It brought back cut characters and added a bunch of missed the last boat characters and just overall the roster is crazy huge and yet well balanced enough. And if it's the last entry it's a perfect high note. I don't think it's the last entry tho.

 

[fogbadge]

Overall I have very mixed feelings on EIH and ultimate in general. First time I saw a new smash game announced and wasn’t immediately excited. The initial teaser I wondered if it was too soon for another smash and the actual reveal left me feeling rather deflated. It was hard to get excited for eih when you’d already made peace with cut characters not likely coming back and one of the first newcomers announced is a character you hate. I also think this was the game where I finally started to get tired of certain random things the game does that it only seems to do cause that’s how they did it before. I also realised certain things about the man himself such as a seemingly inconsistent or possibly selective attention to detail.

overall I still really enjoy the game and like to pull it out when I have nothing to do and want to kill some time but my feelings towards the series has shifted somewhat

 

[Perkilator]

I'm gonna be blunt: I think Min Min and Steve should've been in Fighters Pass Vol. 1.

...So anyways, for the lack of a more natural transition, what does everyone think of my latest DLC rework that puts Min Min and Steve in Vol. 1?

Bonus Fighter: #70. Bandana Waddle Dee

• Fighters Pass Vol. 1
  • 71. Joker
  • 72. Hero
  • 73. Banjo & Kazooie
  • 74. Min Min
  • 75. Terry Bogard
  • 76. Steve
• Fighters Pass Vol. 2
  • 77. Chun-Li
  • 78. Dr. Eggman
  • 79. Sephiroth
  • 80-81. Pyra / Mythra
  • 82. Kazuya Mishima
  • 83. Sora

 

[Ivander]

I'm gonna be blunt: I think Min Min and Steve should've been in Fighters Pass Vol. 1.

...So anyways, for the lack of a more natural transition, what does everyone think of my latest DLC rework that puts Min Min and Steve in Vol. 1?

Bonus Fighter: #70. Bandana Waddle Dee

• Fighters Pass Vol. 1
  • 71. Joker
  • 72. Hero
  • 73. Banjo & Kazooie
  • 74. Min Min
  • 75. Terry Bogard
  • 76. Steve
• Fighters Pass Vol. 2
  • 77. Chun-Li
  • 78. Dr. Eggman
  • 79. Sephiroth
  • 80-81. Pyra / Mythra
  • 82. Kazuya Mishima
  • 83. Sora

Say "No Fire Emblem characters allowed." without saying "No Fire Emblem characters allowed."

Look, I know Byleth did not have good timing and you don't have to like them, but there were people who did want a Three Houses character in Smash Bros after Three Houses had been around for a while. Not to mention Three Houses became it's franchise's best selling title much like Xenoblade 2 had.

 

[Perkilator]

Say "No Fire Emblem characters allowed." without saying "No Fire Emblem characters allowed."

Look, I know Byleth did not have good timing and you don't have to like them, but there were people who did want a Three Houses character in Smash Bros after Three Houses had been around for a while. Not to mention Three Houses became it's franchise's best selling title much like Xenoblade 2 had.

Well, it's not because I don't like Byleth; it's only because I just really wanted to include Chun-Li and Eggman in this what-if while keeping the number of Challenger Packs for each Volume an equal six.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm gonna be blunt: I think Min Min and Steve should've been in Fighters Pass Vol. 1.

Gonna be real.

How does stuff like this actually matter?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Was Everyone is Here a good thing for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

How is that even a question?

EIH had its pros and cons

Wrong. Only pros.

EiH was both a blessing and a curse.

Wong. Only a blessing.

Everyone is Here was amazing as a one time thing.

Wrong. Everyone is Here, forever!

Everyone is Here was a neat approach that I never ever ever want to see again

I never want to see YOU again!

Most likely as we all believe, is that they will remove some characters and put others in their place.

As for the speculation scene, I see a lot of people bring up the negative impact that EiH apparently had.

Which I don't understand. EiH made Ultimate speculation 10x better. Because it immediately killed all "Who's returning? Who's getting cut?" arguments. And everyone was able to focus on the fun part of speculation. Newcomers.

I accept that this approach is unsustainable given development time, budget, and licensing.

I don't. Nintendo has all the time, money and influence they need to replicate it whenever they feel like it.

It was hard to get excited for eih when you’d already made peace with cut characters not likely coming back

So basically...when presented with a pleasant surprise, you can't enjoy the surprise, because you're too busy being mad about being wrong...

 

[Wonder Smash]

How can anybody NOT like EiH? Whatever characters fans liked were in the roster.

And they made for great Spirit Battles too.

 

[FazDude]

TBH, most of my issues with EIH have less to do with how it affects Smash specifically and how it's affected discussion surrounding other platfighters. Suddenly, a twenty-something-man roster like NASB, despite being a genre standard before, is now considered middling solely because of EIH without regard to what the other studios can/want to do. That's what I mean by cons.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Sorry, but you can't convince me EiH was executed well, ever. On paper, it sounds like it could've been a good idea, but there were so many other caveats on the table that dragged the novelty down.

 

[Megadoomer]

I was honestly so glad/relieved that I didn't have to worry about any of my favourites getting cut (especially after Mewtwo in Brawl and Snake in Smash 4), so I consider Everyone Is Here to be a good thing. (though I can understand how it would make things more difficult for the development team)

In my eyes, it played a large part in helping the game live up to its title as the ultimate Smash Bros. (though adding long-awaited newcomers like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie definitely helped)

 

[FazDude]

EIH was definitely good for Ultimate's identity, I can admit that. That said, I wouldn't mind exchange it for things like more single-player stuff and new base game stages. I like EIH from a novelty/fanservice perspective, but I can't really overlook the (unintentional) negative impact its had on platfighter discussion, even if that's moreso on fans' part than EIH directly.

EIH isn't 100% good or 100% bad, but I can say the majority of the good stuff does benefit Smash fans, so I get why people like it and want to see it happen again.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I see people keep bringing up the single player content but to be honest, the Spirit Battles were good enough for me. They're actually pretty fun. I just love how they reference different games with all those characters and I'd love to see them do that again. Even now, I still can't help but go to either the Boards and my List for some Spirit Battles (mostly just to challenge myself against the Legend Spirits).

 

[Kirbeh]

TBH, most of my issues with EIH have less to do with how it affects Smash specifically and how it's affected discussion surrounding other platfighters. Suddenly, a twenty-something-man roster like NASB, despite being a genre standard before, is now considered middling solely because of EIH without regard to what the other studios can/want to do. That's what I mean by cons.

Comparisons to Smash would happen regardless of EiH. Attempting to hold up NASB2's roster against Ultimate's is simply not reasonable. This isn't so much the fault of Smash or EiH but fans unwilling to temper their own expectations. That said there are genuine criticisms made of NASB's roster that would still stand regardless of whether you compare it to Smash. You'll have to forgive me if I see a pretty glaring disconnect between laying the blame on Smash for the negative opinions people have formed for other titles.

It's not even that I wholly disagree with you either. I'm not super active on these boards, but I do lurk, and I've seen plenty of folks bring up how NASB3 needs an EiH to "make up for" 2's roster. I understand that that discourse can be quite tiresome, but while EiH is probably an unreasonable request, it isn't totally a poorly founded result given that the majority opinion seems to be that the roster is somewhat questionable.

Cuts will do that in any game though. Street Fighter 3 flopped and floundered for years, only became beloved later. MvC3 was criticized for its smaller roster compared to 2 (despite 2 being an asset dump and 3 being built from the ground up). Whenever and however many cuts wind up happening in a future Smash, we already know there'll be a short-lived uproar. Unfortunate but inevitable.

 

[FazDude]

Comparisons to Smash would happen regardless of EiH. Attempting to hold up NASB2's roster against Ultimate's is simply not reasonable. This isn't so much the fault of Smash or EiH but fans unwilling to temper their own expectations. That said there are genuine criticisms made of NASB's roster that would still stand regardless of whether you compare it to Smash. You'll have to forgive me if I see a pretty glaring disconnect between laying the blame on Smash for the negative opinions people have formed for other titles.

It's not even that I wholly disagree with you either. I'm not super active on these boards, but I do lurk, and I've seen plenty of folks bring up how NASB3 needs an EiH to "make up for" 2's roster. I understand that that discourse can be quite tiresome, but while EiH is probably an unreasonable request, it isn't totally a poorly founded result given that the majority opinion seems to be that the roster is somewhat questionable.

Cuts will do that in any game though. Street Fighter 3 flopped and floundered for years, only became beloved later. MvC3 was criticized for its smaller roster compared to 2 (despite 2 being an asset dump and 3 being built from the ground up). Whenever and however many cuts wind up happening in a future Smash, we already know there'll be a short-lived uproar. Unfortunate but inevitable.

I’m not blaming Smash entirely for this - sorry if I wasn’t too clear on that - but it is something that has soured my thoughts on the topic. With NASB2 specifically, there are genuine criticisms that I can get behind and agree with, but those have less to do with EIH and moreso to do with NASB specifically.

It is kind of unreasonable to blame Smash entirely for unfavorable comparisons to other platfighters, and it has existed pre-EIH, but Ultimate just kinda caused that kind of mentality to explode to the point where I think EIH has caused genuine harm in that respect.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Smash bros ultimate was never marketed as such but Everyone is here felt like something they did to commemorate 20 years of Smash bros.

 

[SPEN18]

I've been firmly against EiH from the start. When it was first announced I was immediately concerned about how it would impact the number of newcomers and the amount and quality of the other content in the game. Seeing the final product of Ult did not improve my opinion of EiH.
Also, in principle, I am not opposed to cuts. Every game is a chance to reevaluate the entire roster and set priorities accordingly. There are several characters who, in my opinion, don't really make sense to keep bringing over when considering the wealth of other options I'd rather see prioritized.

 

[Jave]

There were two great things about EiH. First, it allowed everyone to play as their favorite veteran. Sakurai has acknowledged that every character is someone's favorite, and EiH was a way to please everyone in that aspect. Second, it nipped the discussion of cuts right in the bud, which let's be honest, it's always one of the worst topics of discussion during the pre-release period of the next Smash game.

I definitely see the point that EiH has a downside since it does means less focus on newcomers. I know I said a few days ago that I think EiH will continue on the next Smash, but after seeing some of the arguments here I'm not so sure anymore. I think Sakurai will at least TRY to bring everyone back, but he definitely won't prioritize veterans over newcomers this time around.

 

[fogbadge]

i'm not sure the whole everyone is someone's favourite stands up while it's true that every character is someone's favourite it's also true that every charactery is someone's least favourite

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Beyond the practical use (an obvious market appeal for the next SSB on Switch) EiH in Ultimate felt like the culmination of what Sakurai and company were essentially doing with the first mega-era of the series. With a refined engine, speed, physics, they made sure every fighter got the chance to be part of the conclusion to what was more or less Smash 1.0 and the perfected gameplay that came with it. The Pichu's, Young Links, and so forth would get to experience what the series was in the modern gaming landscape before Smash would move on to its next phase where its priorities with fighters would differ.

 

[Perkilator]

EIH was definitely good for Ultimate's identity, I can admit that. That said, I wouldn't mind exchange it for things like more single-player stuff and new base game stages. I like EIH from a novelty/fanservice perspective, but I can't really overlook the (unintentional) negative impact its had on platfighter discussion, even if that's moreso on fans' part than EIH directly.

EIH isn't 100% good or 100% bad, but I can say the majority of the good stuff does benefit Smash fans, so I get why people like it and want to see it happen again.

Yeah, that’s my feelings on it in a nutshell; EiH is a double-edged sword that leaves a positive impact in the long run, but does come with unintended negative side effects.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think a Deluxe edition with 10 or so more characters and a few tweaks to Ultimate is the most probable "next Smash" thing ever happening. At launch with the new system is like a no-brainer. Smash 7 is probably coming out a lot later, like 2026/27 imho.

I would ABSOLUTELY take this. In a heart beat. Throw some Echoes and semiclones to absolutely bloat the roster too. Loads and loads of well known and popular characters could be made into Echoes and semi clones.

Potential semi clone popular iconic characters: Dixie Kong, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Bandana Dee, Impa, Toad, Waluigi, any of the shotos of Street Fighter but mainly Akuma.

Potential Echoes: Funky Kong, Impa (again), Shadow (again), Slippy Toad, Galactia Knight, Naked Snake / Big Boss.

 

[DarthEnderX]

TBH, most of my issues with EIH have less to do with how it affects Smash specifically and how it's affected discussion surrounding other platfighters. Suddenly, a twenty-something-man roster like NASB, despite being a genre standard before, is now considered middling solely because of EIH without regard to what the other studios can/want to do. That's what I mean by cons.

I guess? I just don't see how that's Smash's problem. "They're making everyone else look bad because they're doing TOO good a job!" is not a complaint you hear very often from anyone that's not one of those everyone else.

It's like complaining about Street Fighter 6 having great netcode because now more people are dissatisfied with Tekken's netcode.

I definitely see the point that EiH has a downside since it does means less focus on newcomers.

What point? Ultimate had more newcomers than any other Smash game!

i'm not sure the whole everyone is someone's favourite stands up while it's true that every character is someone's favourite it's also true that every charactery is someone's least favourite

psst You don't have to play the characters you don't like.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

i'm not sure the whole everyone is someone's favourite stands up while it's true that every character is someone's favourite it's also true that every charactery is someone's least favourite

Adults eat their vegetables.

 

[fogbadge]

psst You don't have to play the characters you don't like.

psst some people like to 100% a game

 

[SPEN18]

The thing is that at a fundamental level cuts discussion is no different than newcomer discussion. Both are just "will/should this character/concept be in the game."

 

[DarthEnderX]

psst some people like to 100% a game

psst Those people aren't allowed to complain about their being too much game.

 

[fogbadge]

psst Those people aren't allowed to complain about their being too much game.

wow

 

[DarthEnderX]

wow

Wow what? Am I supposed to feel sympathy for someone who wants to make the game worse for everyone else because every single aspect of a game wasn't tailor made for them, but they have a pathological need to do it all anyway?

Like, I don't care about online multiplayer. I'll never complete the multiplayer Challenges. But I'm not so much of an ***hole that I'd be like "multiplayer is making the game worse and the game shouldn't have it". Because I understand not everything has to be for everyone.

Just like every character isn't for everyone. And other people shouldn't have to suffer because you can't just...not.

 

[fogbadge]

Wow what? Am I supposed to feel sympathy for someone who wants to make the game worse for everyone else because every single aspect of a game wasn't tailor made for them, but they have a pathological need to do it all anyway?

Like, I don't care about online multiplayer. I'll never complete the multiplayer Challenges. But I'm not so much of an ***hole that I'd be like "multiplayer is making the game worse and the game shouldn't have it". Because I understand not everything has to be for everyone.

Just like every character isn't for everyone. And other people shouldn't have to suffer because you can't just...not.

that’s actually quite narrow minded to think that everyone wants more characters and more characters equals a better game. I’ve certainly encountered people who want a smaller roster so they can have a larger focus on other aspects of the game so they would argue that a smaller roster would make a better game. Wanting no characters cut is still selfish and wanting the game to be the way you want it to be

 

[Guynamednelson]

that’s actually quite narrow minded to think that everyone wants more characters and more characters equals a better game. I’ve certainly encountered people who want a smaller roster so they can have a larger focus on other aspects of the game so they would argue that a smaller roster would make a better game. Wanting no characters cut is still selfish and wanting the game to be the way you want it to be

Plus I'm pretty sure Darth does have problems with various character choices Sakurai made.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’ve certainly encountered people who want a smaller roster so they can have a larger focus on other aspects of the game so they would argue that a smaller roster would make a better game.

Except for the part where a smaller roster doesn't actually get you that. As evidenced by the fact that Ultimate had EiH and STILL had more other **** in than any other Smash game.

There is no opportunity cost in Smash. If Sakurai wants something in the game, it's in the game.

Plus I'm pretty sure Darth does have problems with various character choices Sakurai made.

Definitely. But now that they're here, they're here forever.

 

[Noipoi]

I never like dealing with extremes.

If you ask me, asserting that Everyone is Here will never happen again is just as silly as insisting that it’s the way things’ll be forever.

 

[Sucumbio]

that’s actually quite narrow minded to think that everyone wants more characters and more characters equals a better game. I’ve certainly encountered people who want a smaller roster so they can have a larger focus on other aspects of the game so they would argue that a smaller roster would make a better game. Wanting no characters cut is still selfish and wanting the game to be the way you want it to be

Not for Ultimate tho ... The whole point was like yo we're gonna tone back the 1p modes and stuff so we can have everyone return as playable. No offense I just prefer my fgs to have fighters.

 

[fogbadge]

Except for the part where a smaller roster doesn't actually get you that. As evidenced by the fact that Ultimate had EiH and STILL had more other **** in than any other Smash game.

There is no opportunity cost in Smash. If Sakurai wants something in the game, it's in the game.

That because there was a heavy reliance on old stuff and even then we still lost several game modes. EIH did cost us it’s that a lot of people didn’t care it’s not the same thing