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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

FazDude

FazDude

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Even if I don't really care for Fortnite, I'm surprised how we didn't get anything for it during Ultimate's run - not even a Mii Costume. On top of being wildly successful, Nintendo and Epic seem to have a decent relationship if all the Fortnite-themed Switch products are anything to go by.

(Then again, Fortnite is rated T, which might have conflicted with the ESRB's new rule that games couldn't mention games with a higher rating than itself. Maybe we'll have better luck if the next Smash is rated T.)
 
PeridotGX

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I've been pretty adamant that we're getting a Toby Fox character in the next Smash game, but I've also said that it's hard to guess who they'll be. I decided to put a tier list together to rank who I think the most likely characters are.
Undertier list.png

S Tier - I think the Great Papyrus is the most likely Tobyverse character. He's fairly popular, and if I'm not mistaken he's Toby's literal favorite character. He has plenty of moveset potential, and doesn't have the hangups of a few of the other big characters. Additionally, there's a non-zero chance he ends up being The Roaring Knight in Deltarune, which would mean he would be relevant in both games and an even better rep of the Tobyverse. I think he only has about a 40% chance though, it's really anyone's game.
A Tier - Toriel and Sans are fairly likely, though below Papyrus. Toriel isn't as popular and doesn't have as much moveset potential, and sans... sans is tricky. He would absolutely be the frontrunner if a key part of his character wasn't being lazy as ****. I don't want to say it would be out of character for Sans to be in a fighting game, but it would be weird. But on the other side of the token, his sheer popularity keeps him from being any lower. I personally don't want Sans to be the Tobyverse character (don't get me wrong, I like him, but I don't want him in Smash), but I can't rule him out.
A- Tier - The FUN Gang. These characters should be in A Tier, but it's hard to be certain with the full game not being out. Something could cause one of them to not be a great Smash fit, or shoot one of them to the top spot. We'll need to wait and see.
B Tier - Kris and Frisk. As main characters, they should be the frontrunners, but both have factors that make their inclusion not as obvious as most MCs are. A Frisk moveset would be really tough to make, as not including some sort of pacifism mechanic would feel dishonest but balancing that would be incredibly difficult. I've actually made one, but it's even more complex than Steve and has factors that many that I shared it with disliked. As for Kris, part of the plot of Deltarune seems to be dealing with the conflict between the player and the character they control. Putting them in Smash would be tantamount to putting them in purgatory forever, which feels... dicey. I don't think this is a big deal for anyone else, but SPECIFICALLY Kris.
C Tier- Asgore, Flowey, and Undyne. Undertale side characters who don't have any reason to be added but don't have any reason not to be added. If the stars allign, maybe.
👎︎ ❄︎✋︎☜︎☼︎ - Mr. Wayne Douglas Gaster himself. He's a mixture of C Tier and the FUN Gang, it all depends on how Deltarune unfolds. The game is absolutely dripping with his influence, if he finally leaves the shadows there's a chance he would be a viable pick for Smash. But if he doesn't, he stands no chance, and even if he does he probably wouldn't be a frontrunner.
[[#&!%]] Tier - Spamton G. Spamton. What it says on the image - he's getting a mii costume, but there's no way he'll ever be playable. Sorry.
 
Ivander

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Swamp Sensei said:
Honest question. Are there any modern all stars you think are missing? Both 1st and 3rd party?
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Swamp Sensei said:
Let's say...

Past 7 years?
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In terms of 1st party? I honestly can't say. The only one I can really think of is the playable Octolings from Splatoon. Maybe the Celebrities from Splatoon, like Callie & Marie, Pearl & Marina and Shiver, Frye and Big Man. The only other characters that I can think of that could be considered are the Champions from Breath of the Wild. They're really the only ones I feel have gotten close to the title of Modern Nintendo All-Star, probably because they are the only ones I feel a good number of people would recognise because many either played those games or would recognise them even if they don't play the game.
It's really hard for me otherwise to proclaim characters from good selling titles having "modern All-Stars", cause...let's be honest, while Wii Fit may be a big selling title, nobody would've considered the frickin' Wii Fit Trainer a Nintendo All-Star until Smash Bros. Plus, while some characters I would say are popular in their own games regarding those fanbases, some characters definitely got alot more attention after they came to Smash Bros.
And that's really not the fault of those characters in those games. It's not their fault that for some characters, most people recognise that character because of Smash Bros. rather than their own game. But I feel that part of being a "modern All-Star that is missing" is that the majority of people recognize that character from their home game. I don't really see that with alot of recent Nintendo characters aside from Splatoon entries and some of the characters from Breath of the Wild.

For 3rd Parties, some I can easily think of are 2B from Nier Automata, the Knight from Hollow Knight, Jonesy from Fortnite, the Crewmate from Among Us and maybe Tracer from Overwatch(and I say that with a Big Maybe, with the reception to Overwatch nowadays.....le sigh). I also want to include Elden Ring as a whole, because while I don't think many would recognise the Tarnished, I can absolutely see some of it's characters, especially Melina, Ranni and Malenia, being recognised quite quickly.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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I think Jonesy would be an amazing pick, just imagining th trailer being put in a general direct with no indication that it's a smash trailer, just your typical Fortnite trailer, until more and more smash fighters start showing up on the island and then it's clear that its smash related.
 
DarthEnderX

DarthEnderX

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Oracle Link said:
pre Crazy/ Completly Insane/ Red Swirly thing Giygas
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That's just Mewtwo though. And we already have Mewtwo.

1685431175198.png

Sucumbio said:
No way, dude. All respect there's simply no reason to make Smash fans wait that long.
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They're not waiting though. They're playing SSBU Deluxe.

And I say that as a Mario Kart fan who is much happier playing MK8 Deluxe, than I'd have been getting MK9 instead.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Oracle Link said:
Thats what i mean just make Giygas a Mewtwo Echo!
Also Mewtwo is Giygas not Giygas is Mewtwo!
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While that's technically correct, what does it change to know who came first?

It's hardly what I'd call important when the general idea of what Darth said remains the same; that the two are very similar.

Arguably too similar visually to work as an Echo, in my opinion. Echoes should at least be distinct in a visual sense.
 
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Gengar84

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I just had a thought but I could be way off. Everyone is saying how much of a licensing nightmare it would be to get a Smash Ultimate Deluxe for the next console. So much so that many feel it is unrealistic. What about the possibility of the next Switch being backwards compatible and we could just pick up on continuing DLC with the current game without having to release anything new? I think that could potentially solve the licensing issue since they would still just be adding content to the original game. There might still be something I’m overlooking here but the idea at least makes sense in my head. Nothing is stopping them from adding content beyond just the fighter’s passes such as new modes as future DLC to Ultimate.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Gengar84 said:
I just had a thought but I could be way off. Everyone is saying how much of a licensing nightmare it would be to get a Smash Ultimate Deluxe for the next console. So much so that many feel it is unrealistic. What about the possibility of the next Switch being backwards compatible and we could just pick up on continuing DLC with the current game without having to release anything new? I think that could potentially solve the licensing issue since they would still just be adding content to the original game. There might still be something I’m overlooking here but the idea at least makes sense in my head. Nothing is stopping them from adding content beyond just the fighter’s passes such as new modes as future DLC to Ultimate.
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Honestly, that's the only outcome where I can see Ultimate live in the Switch 2.0 or whatever they'll call it.
 
StrangeKitten

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Gengar84 said:
I just had a thought but I could be way off. Everyone is saying how much of a licensing nightmare it would be to get a Smash Ultimate Deluxe for the next console. So much so that many feel it is unrealistic. What about the possibility of the next Switch being backwards compatible and we could just pick up on continuing DLC with the current game without having to release anything new? I think that could potentially solve the licensing issue since they would still just be adding content to the original game. There might still be something I’m overlooking here but the idea at least makes sense in my head. Nothing is stopping them from adding content beyond just the fighter’s passes such as new modes as future DLC to Ultimate.
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I'd love this! Though I do think a simple next Smash game, not a reboot or anything, is the most likely.
 
StrangeKitten

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fogbadge said:
i think that’s more about hating the moveset rather than the character
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Definitely moveset for me. As a competitive-minded player, I liked the way Ganondorf started out in Melee. Sure, it was lame that he was a Falcon clone, but that at least gave him an intriguing niche as a heavier, more powerful Falcon at the cost of speed. But they haven't since changed his moveset enough to make him feel more like Ganondorf, and he no longer has a competitive niche when all aspects of him are done better by other characters. Slow but powerful? Incineroar or Kazuya, Big disjoints on Smash attacks? Ike, Sephiroth, or Cloud. Haha funny bad character with a weak recovery? Even Little Mac and DK do that better. It's sad, and I hope they help him out more in future games.
 
The Stoopid Unikorn

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StrangeKitten said:
Definitely moveset for me. As a competitive-minded player, I liked the way Ganondorf started out in Melee. Sure, it was lame that he was a Falcon clone, but that at least gave him an intriguing niche as a heavier, more powerful Falcon at the cost of speed. But they haven't since changed his moveset enough to make him feel more like Ganondorf, and he no longer has a competitive niche when all aspects of him are done better by other characters. Slow but powerful? Incineroar or Kazuya, Big disjoints on Smash attacks? Ike, Sephiroth, or Cloud. Haha funny bad character with a weak recovery? Even Little Mac and DK do that better. It's sad, and I hope they help him out more in future games.
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The only real problem Ganondorf has is the lack of tools against projectiles and swordies. And there's been a lot more of both those since Melee, so Ganondorf simply ends up becoming worse and worse in every game.

He was at his best in Melee because there were few swordies and zoners, with even fewer of them being viable.
 
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StrangeKitten

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The Stoopid Unikorn said:
The only real problem Ganondorf has is the last of tools against projectiles and swordies. And there's been a lot more of both those since Melee, so Ganondorf simply ends up becoming worse and worse in every game.

He was at his best in Melee because there were few swordiesand zoners, with even fewer of them being viable.
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I'd argue his recovery being so bad is also a problem. Most characters in Ultimate make it back for free, and even Chrom at least has good air stats to help him out.
 
Gengar84

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I think part of it his problem is that Ganondorf lost a decent recovery truck from Melee where you could cancel out of his Warlock kick midair to get extra distance with an up special. He also seems to have lost a lot of kill power with his Warlock Kick. I remember that being able to KO a lot sooner than it does now. He also lost the ability to suicide effectively with his flame choke.
 
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Sucumbio

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StrangeKitten said:
I'd argue his recovery being so bad is also a problem. Most characters in Ultimate make it back for free, and even Chrom at least has good air stats to help him out.
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Yeah recovery is important so much so that after trying little Mac and realizing going off stage is like 90/10 in favor of death I'm like nope bottom tier deserved!

Nintendo! Please fix Little Mac and Ganondorf in the Next Smash, please Nintendo!
 
StrangeKitten

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Gengar84 said:
I think part of it his problem is that Ganondorf lost a decent recovery truck from Melee where you could cancel out of his Warlock kick midair to get extra distance with an up special. He also seems to have lost a lot of kill power with his Warlock Kick. I remember that being able to KO a lot sooner than it does now. He also lost the ability to suicide effectively with his flame choke.
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Which means, he's possibly the only character who gets nerfed on last stock, because if he tries recovering with Flame Choke but his opponent jumps into it, they die second and Ganondorf loses. It's an unlikely scenario that won't come up often, but still.


Sucumbio said:
Yeah recovery is important so much so that after trying little Mac and realizing going off stage is like 90/10 in favor of death I'm like nope bottom tier deserved!

Nintendo! Please fix Little Mac and Ganondorf in the Next Smash, please Nintendo!
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And even then, I'd argue Little Mac's recovery is better because he at least doesn't go into freefall after side B. And there's also a tech that was discovered where his dair gives him a little momentum.
 
Wonder Smash

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The Stoopid Unikorn said:
Yes, you would.

There's also still people that are dunking on Corrin though, so seeing people have seething hatred for Bayonetta is hardly shocking to me.
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I admit, I had some issues when Bayonetta was revealed for Smash 4 too but they were only minor. She was clearly in for Nintendo's promotional purposes and her image just didn't blend well with the other characters (or Nintendo's own) but that's it. By the time Ultimate came around, I had gotten over it and while it's still kind of odd to see this kind of character as an "honorary Nintendo character" (because just look at her series), seeing all those Nintendo references in her games does make it a lot more easier to accept her in Smash.
 
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RodNutTakin

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I think how Bayonetta got added just makes her stick out like a sore thumb, when almost every other guest character has made a much bigger splash on the industry. It just kind of makes her feel like the "teacher's pet" among all the potential guest picks who got in just because 2 was contractually Nintendo exclusive at a time where they were very thirsty for quality third-party games on their system.
Not even Banjo has this kind of situation, since at least Rare actually had a hand in several first-party Nintendo projects, it's not like they developed Banjo for the N64 out of pity for the system not having much in the way of third-party support.
 
C

chocolatejr9

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So there's another acquisition rumor going around, but this one involves Nintendo so I figured I'd share it:


The way I see it, the most likely one here (assuming it's true) is EA, and that's only because they've apparently been looking for a buyer for a bit now. Nintendo would just laugh them out of the room like they did Microsoft, Take Two is doing just fine and doesn't need to be bought out, and I'm honestly not sure if ActiBlizz would immediately turn to another buyer should the MS deal fall through.

(Heck, this rumor doesn't even account that other rumor that Comcast is looking to buy WBD, which would grant them access to WB's gaming division, one of the few parts of the company that WASN'T hurt by the Discovery merger...)
 
Diddy Kong

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Gengar84 said:
I just had a thought but I could be way off. Everyone is saying how much of a licensing nightmare it would be to get a Smash Ultimate Deluxe for the next console. So much so that many feel it is unrealistic. What about the possibility of the next Switch being backwards compatible and we could just pick up on continuing DLC with the current game without having to release anything new? I think that could potentially solve the licensing issue since they would still just be adding content to the original game. There might still be something I’m overlooking here but the idea at least makes sense in my head. Nothing is stopping them from adding content beyond just the fighter’s passes such as new modes as future DLC to Ultimate.
Click to expand...
This man is a genius.
 
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HyperSomari64

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chocolatejr9 said:
So there's another acquisition rumor going around, but this one involves Nintendo so I figured I'd share it:


The way I see it, the most likely one here (assuming it's true) is EA, and that's only because they've apparently been looking for a buyer for a bit now. Nintendo would just laugh them out of the room like they did Microsoft, Take Two is doing just fine and doesn't need to be bought out, and I'm honestly not sure if ActiBlizz would immediately turn to another buyer should the MS deal fall through.

(Heck, this rumor doesn't even account that other rumor that Comcast is looking to buy WBD, which would grant them access to WB's gaming division, one of the few parts of the company that WASN'T hurt by the Discovery merger...)
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Why not re-launching a new Universal Interactive?
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I think Bayonetta's inclusion becomes less strange with time. Not only is Bayonetta starting to become a more active and successful series, but its continued presence as a Nintendo exclusive is making her seem more "at home" in something like Smash.

She's like Mega Man and Castlevania without the 25 years of history. We all have to start some where. Nintendo is just recognizing the series as a new partner and fostering the relationship early. You can see similar things happening with Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler nowadays. We saw it happen with Shovel Knight in the past. And Nintendo gave them preferential treatment in Smash too. Shovel Knight is the only indie Assist Trophy. Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler got spirits. Bayonetta's preferred treatment just happened in a different way. Timing probably helped a ton for her. Having Bayonetta 2 coming close to winning Game of the Year during the time of character selection probably made Nintendo feel even more confident in the franchise.

It's also important to note that Bayonetta and Devil May Cry are pretty much keeping their genre alive, and are the only ones doing it. Character action games are very rare nowadays. Bayonetta does have gaming significance in that she is a pillar of her genre. Not every series in Smash can say that.

Plus you know... even at their worst, the games are really good (writing aside).

Let's be 100% honest though, a lot of Bayonetta hate (that isn't from Smash 4 balance) comes from sexism or puritanism. People focus on the sexual aspects of the character and see it as a reason to hate. That part doesn't sit right with me but I don't expect to change those opinions because they're pretty set in their ways.
 
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