Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Right now the burning question on my mind is this:

Why didn't Pit ever learn how to read?

have you seen the stuff he has to put up with?

 

[Sucumbio]

have you seen the stuff he has to put up with?

Lol, reminds me of a certain Van Halen song.

I really liked the anime style clips with him and palutena, I'd legit watch a Kid Icarus anime done like that.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Lol, reminds me of a certain Van Halen song.

Kinda weird that they haven't included that song into the trailers of the new Super Mario movie.
A missed oppotunity, i say

 

[chocolatejr9]

Right now the burning question on my mind is this:

Why didn't Pit ever learn how to read?

Clearly, Palutena isn't as great of a teacher as she thinks...

 

[Lenidem]

Having moves that look kinda similar to another character doesn't make it a clone. They play nothing alike.

Then there are no clones in Smash.

The saddest thing is that Ganondorf was a lot more competitively viable when he was just a straight Falcon clone in Melee. It seems like all the changes they made since only made him worse.

I don't care about the competitive scene, honestly.

 

[fogbadge]

Then there are no clones in Smash.

what about mewtwo?

 

[Lenidem]

what about mewtwo?

Touché !

 

[Gengar84]

Then there are no clones in Smash.

I don't care about the competitive scene, honestly.

Me neither but I do care about how well a character plays against my friends and the AI. It’s true that doesn’t always correlate with the competitive tier list at higher levels of play. I’m probably average at best at Smash so they probably don’t apply to me too much but some characters have weaknesses that are still pretty apparent at casual levels.

 

[Sucumbio]

Clearly, Palutena isn't as great of a teacher as she thinks...

Oh, she's great alright! At barking orders and being obtuse. Hey Palutena! Give me some guidance, will ya?!

Wait are we debating clones vs echoes again?

I didn't weigh in before cause it's kinda like ...dumb... but my take is in general there's a baseline for what a true Clone is and it's unique to that game whatever game it is. So for Melee Roy was a Marth clone. Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone.

Imho I think Dorf and Falcon are divorced enough moveset wise to no longer be considered clones. But there are several that are raised in discussion and I personally feel like the only big offender of being a true and worthless clone is Daisy.

 

[RileyXY1]

As for Ganondorf I usually have trouble fighting against him in WOL.

 

[Ivander]

Right now the burning question on my mind is this:

Why didn't Pit ever learn how to read?

When does somebody who's never learned how to read ask for links from their own version of Wikipedia? There is very clearly an issue somewhere if you can read and recognise links to Wikipedia, but not be able to read other things in general.

 

[fogbadge]

When does somebody who's never learned how to read ask for links from their own version of Wikipedia? There is very clearly an issue somewhere if you can read and recognise links to Wikipedia, but not be able to read other things in general.

It’s a simple explanation. Pit is stupid

 

[PeridotGX]

Having moves that look kinda similar to another character doesn't make it a clone. They play nothing alike.

Most of Ganondorf's moves are based on moves from Captain Falcon. He's a clone - a rather distinct one, but still a clone. The only character to fully break free from the label is Jigglypuff, everyone else (Roy, Wolf, even Luigi) are still clones to some degree.

 

[Soy_Man]

Then there are no clones in Smash.

Lucina.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, she's great alright! At barking orders and being obtuse. Hey Palutena! Give me some guidance, will ya?!

Wait are we debating clones vs echoes again?

I didn't weigh in before cause it's kinda like ...dumb... but my take is in general there's a baseline for what a true Clone is and it's unique to that game whatever game it is. So for Melee Roy was a Marth clone. Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone.

Imho I think Dorf and Falcon are divorced enough moveset wise to no longer be considered clones. But there are several that are raised in discussion and I personally feel like the only big offender of being a true and worthless clone is Daisy.

The thing about clones is they were not based upon simply having "a reused moveset", but it's actually Sakurai taking a model and reusing it and some animations to create a new character. Wolf and Ganondorf were both made with the same core mindset, using someone as a base. Ness is made the same way from Mario. Movesets are completely variable and might as well not be a key factor for any Model Swap. Basically? Clones are being used in a different way they were created for Smash. They aren't moveset clones, they're animation/model clones.

Echoes are the first one to strictly be about reusing the same moveset, model(and the other model has to match the proportions too, something not required for a Model Swap Fighter), and animations. They're the true moveset clone as a design philosophy specifically. Cause as I noted before, Ness is literally made the same way Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Falcon were from Mario, Kirby, and Samus. It's why "moveset" isn't really a key factor of a Model Swap Fighter(which existed since the N64). This is also most likely why he made the Label Echo. Because they're meant to represent an actual Moveset Clone philosphy.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy that Ness is the same kind of clone Ganondorf is by design. But that's really what Model Swap Fighter means. Obviously they still need to share some moves here and there, but it varies. It's just a much smaller factor than what Echoes are about. Cloud and Corrin both used Ike as a base too, after all. A good way to put is "Model Swap Fighter uses a preexisting character as a base, but doesn't need to share much more than a few moves at best." and "Echoes are the same model proportions with currently the same weight, and movesets that will have anywhere from being 99.99999999% the same or might have one or two slightly notable moves. They can also have a variable gameplay mechanic to help separate."

It's honestly why Wolf and Ness are perhaps the most egregious examples of a Model Swap Fighter. They are blatantly not Moveset Clones at all(as they play entirely different from their bases, much like Ganondorf and Roy now. Ganondorf since Brawl and Roy since 4). It's why even using that term and never separating it in any interview or definition for us makes it really odd for us to determine what he means by it. It's a super vague terminology, though it's not that hard to understand, it's just... not a simplistic catch-all term either. Kind of like how Echoes are not the terminology used for any kind of Clone in Smash either(as they're different categories). Here's a quick chart that might make it more obvious;

• Model Swap Fighter: Any kind of character who uses another character as a base.
  • These do not have to be Moveset Clones. As Ness is one of them, but he obviously is not even close to similar to Mario, with at most his animations looking kind of like they they are remodified here and there from Mario. Wolf is mostly the same, borrowing a few more moves, but almost is entirely unique.
  • Others are so divorced from the original you can barely tell, like Roy, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf. Like, you know their origins, but they play super differently.
• Moveset Clone: A specific kind of Model Swap Fighter who directly borrows most of the moveset from.
  • Luigi, Dr. Mario, Toon Link for a few examples follow this well. Toon Link is more based upon Young Link, though. Young Link is based upon Link, but notably does borrow from Toon Link in Ultimate instead due to Link's major evolutions in gameplay.
• Echo: A specific kind of Moveset Clone who has the same proportions as the base, an almost identical moveset, but does not require to use the exact same gameplay mechanics as a character. They also do not have to have much of a changed up moveset in terms of any kind of statistic.
  • All Echoes are a given, but Daisy is a perfect example of "99.9999% the same". She has slightly different hurtboxes. This means she doesn't play 1:1 as Peach, which is the entire reason she requires a separate slot in the data. She is not a glorified palette swap. She's actually a different character statistics-wise. It's just done really really poorly either way and understandably it annoys people that she even got a slot despite no real attempt to make her play uniquely. Richter and Dark Samus have slight elemental differences but suffer similarly. The rest are pretty good at having some notable difference(s).

 

[Sucumbio]

The thing about clones is they were not based upon simply having "a reused moveset", but it's actually Sakurai taking a model and reusing it and some animations to create a new character. Wolf and Ganondorf were both made with the same core mindset, using someone as a base. Ness is made the same way from Mario. Movesets are completely variable and might as well not be a key factor for any Model Swap. Basically? Clones are being used in a different way they were created for Smash. They aren't moveset clones, they're animation/model clones.

Echoes are the first one to strictly be about reusing the same moveset, model(and the other model has to match the proportions too, something not required for a Model Swap Fighter), and animations. They're the true moveset clone as a design philosophy specifically. Cause as I noted before, Ness is literally made the same way Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Falcon were from Mario, Kirby, and Samus. It's why "moveset" isn't really a key factor of a Model Swap Fighter(which existed since the N64). This is also most likely why he made the Label Echo. Because they're meant to represent an actual Moveset Clone philosphy.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy that Ness is the same kind of clone Ganondorf is by design. But that's really what Model Swap Fighter means. Obviously they still need to share some moves here and there, but it varies. It's just a much smaller factor than what Echoes are about. Cloud and Corrin both used Ike as a base too, after all. A good way to put is "Model Swap Fighter uses a preexisting character as a base, but doesn't need to share much more than a few moves at best." and "Echoes are the same model proportions with currently the same weight, and movesets that will have anywhere from being 99.99999999% the same or might have one or two slightly notable moves. They can also have a variable gameplay mechanic to help separate."

It's honestly why Wolf and Ness are perhaps the most egregious examples of a Model Swap Fighter. They are blatantly not Moveset Clones at all(as they play entirely different from their bases, much like Ganondorf and Roy now. Ganondorf since Brawl and Roy since 4). It's why even using that term and never separating it in any interview or definition for us makes it really odd for us to determine what he means by it. It's a super vague terminology, though it's not that hard to understand, it's just... not a simplistic catch-all term either. Kind of like how Echoes are not the terminology used for any kind of Clone in Smash either(as they're different categories). Here's a quick chart that might make it more obvious;

• Model Swap Fighter: Any kind of character who uses another character as a base.
  • These do not have to be Moveset Clones. As Ness is one of them, but he obviously is not even close to similar to Mario, with at most his animations looking kind of like they they are remodified here and there from Mario. Wolf is mostly the same, borrowing a few more moves, but almost is entirely unique.
  • Others are so divorced from the original you can barely tell, like Roy, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf. Like, you know their origins, but they play super differently.
• Moveset Clone: A specific kind of Model Swap Fighter who directly borrows most of the moveset from.
  • Luigi, Dr. Mario, Toon Link for a few examples follow this well. Toon Link is more based upon Young Link, though. Young Link is based upon Link, but notably does borrow from Toon Link in Ultimate instead due to Link's major evolutions in gameplay.
• Echo: A specific kind of Moveset Clone who has the same proportions as the base, an almost identical moveset, but does not require to use the exact same gameplay mechanics as a character. They also do not have to have much of a changed up moveset in terms of any kind of statistic.
  • All Echoes are a given, but Daisy is a perfect example of "99.9999% the same". She has slightly different hurtboxes. This means she doesn't play 1:1 as Peach, which is the entire reason she requires a separate slot in the data. She is not a glorified palette swap. She's actually a different character statistics-wise. It's just done really really poorly either way and understandably it annoys people that she even got a slot despite no real attempt to make her play uniquely. Richter and Dark Samus have slight elemental differences but suffer similarly. The rest are pretty good at having some notable difference(s).

That's like way more thought out than I ever did, thank you!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's like way more thought out than I ever did, thank you!

You're welcome~ I try to look carefully at game design philosophies and all. It makes it easier to understand the labels.

Of course, if the Model Swap Fighters were always Gameplay Clones too, then the point behind Echoes is completely arbitrary. The fact they aren't shines a bit more light on the process. I'm not going to say the label Echo can't be arbitrary in some cases(Dr. Mario pretty much is the only one of the other kinds of Gameplay Clones who really would fit the label too), but at the very least, there's some criteria otherwise. It's kind of the thing about making a new category; you give it specifics. Whether that's a good idea or not is an entirely different story~

 

[chocolatejr9]

E3 2023 has officially been cancelled https://t.co/ps66wVIOeF pic.twitter.com/4WYfxA0Cc4

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) March 30, 2023

I mean, we already knew Nintendo wouldn't be there, but... still kinda sucks, even if we're most likely gonna get an alternative.

 

[smashkirby]

Everytime I hear Sakurai wanted to do a wrestler character, I make sad a winner is you noises

Oh, please don't remind me... poor Hayabusa and Starman...

The thing about clones is they were not based upon simply having "a reused moveset", but it's actually Sakurai taking a model and reusing it and some animations to create a new character. Wolf and Ganondorf were both made with the same core mindset, using someone as a base. Ness is made the same way from Mario. Movesets are completely variable and might as well not be a key factor for any Model Swap. Basically? Clones are being used in a different way they were created for Smash. They aren't moveset clones, they're animation/model clones.

Echoes are the first one to strictly be about reusing the same moveset, model(and the other model has to match the proportions too, something not required for a Model Swap Fighter), and animations. They're the true moveset clone as a design philosophy specifically. Cause as I noted before, Ness is literally made the same way Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Falcon were from Mario, Kirby, and Samus. It's why "moveset" isn't really a key factor of a Model Swap Fighter(which existed since the N64). This is also most likely why he made the Label Echo. Because they're meant to represent an actual Moveset Clone philosphy.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy that Ness is the same kind of clone Ganondorf is by design. But that's really what Model Swap Fighter means. Obviously they still need to share some moves here and there, but it varies. It's just a much smaller factor than what Echoes are about. Cloud and Corrin both used Ike as a base too, after all. A good way to put is "Model Swap Fighter uses a preexisting character as a base, but doesn't need to share much more than a few moves at best." and "Echoes are the same model proportions with currently the same weight, and movesets that will have anywhere from being 99.99999999% the same or might have one or two slightly notable moves. They can also have a variable gameplay mechanic to help separate."

It's honestly why Wolf and Ness are perhaps the most egregious examples of a Model Swap Fighter. They are blatantly not Moveset Clones at all(as they play entirely different from their bases, much like Ganondorf and Roy now. Ganondorf since Brawl and Roy since 4). It's why even using that term and never separating it in any interview or definition for us makes it really odd for us to determine what he means by it. It's a super vague terminology, though it's not that hard to understand, it's just... not a simplistic catch-all term either. Kind of like how Echoes are not the terminology used for any kind of Clone in Smash either(as they're different categories). Here's a quick chart that might make it more obvious;

• Model Swap Fighter: Any kind of character who uses another character as a base.
  • These do not have to be Moveset Clones. As Ness is one of them, but he obviously is not even close to similar to Mario, with at most his animations looking kind of like they they are remodified here and there from Mario. Wolf is mostly the same, borrowing a few more moves, but almost is entirely unique.
  • Others are so divorced from the original you can barely tell, like Roy, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf. Like, you know their origins, but they play super differently.
• Moveset Clone: A specific kind of Model Swap Fighter who directly borrows most of the moveset from.
  • Luigi, Dr. Mario, Toon Link for a few examples follow this well. Toon Link is more based upon Young Link, though. Young Link is based upon Link, but notably does borrow from Toon Link in Ultimate instead due to Link's major evolutions in gameplay.
• Echo: A specific kind of Moveset Clone who has the same proportions as the base, an almost identical moveset, but does not require to use the exact same gameplay mechanics as a character. They also do not have to have much of a changed up moveset in terms of any kind of statistic.
  • All Echoes are a given, but Daisy is a perfect example of "99.9999% the same". She has slightly different hurtboxes. This means she doesn't play 1:1 as Peach, which is the entire reason she requires a separate slot in the data. She is not a glorified palette swap. She's actually a different character statistics-wise. It's just done really really poorly either way and understandably it annoys people that she even got a slot despite no real attempt to make her play uniquely. Richter and Dark Samus have slight elemental differences but suffer similarly. The rest are pretty good at having some notable difference(s).

Out of curiosity, what do we all define Alph and the Koopalings as? Model Swap characters?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

E3 2023 has officially been cancelled https://t.co/ps66wVIOeF pic.twitter.com/4WYfxA0Cc4

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) March 30, 2023

I mean, we already knew Nintendo wouldn't be there, but... still kinda sucks, even if we're most likely gonna get an alternative.

E3's been on it's last legs for a while, now. Livestream presentations and the rona' killed it pretty dead, and even the regular customers like Ubisoft dropped it this year.

 

[RileyXY1]

For me, semi clones are characters that are mostly unique, but have some attacks taken from another fighter. Falco, Ganondorf, Roy, Lucas, and Isabelle are examples of this. Clones are characters that have near identical movesets, but have some differences in gameplay and playstyle. Dr. Mario, Young/Toon Link, and Pichu would fit here. Despite being classified as Echoes in game Chrom, Lucina, and Ken would fit here as well due to more drastic gameplay changes. And Echo Fighters have near identical movesets and playstyles. Only some subtle differences exist. Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Daisy, and Richter would be who I consider to be Echoes.

 

[fogbadge]

E3 2023 has officially been cancelled https://t.co/ps66wVIOeF pic.twitter.com/4WYfxA0Cc4

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) March 30, 2023

I mean, we already knew Nintendo wouldn't be there, but... still kinda sucks, even if we're most likely gonna get an alternative.

shame

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Oh, please don't remind me... poor Hayabusa and Starman...



Out of curiosity, what do we all define Alph and the Koopalings as? Model Swap characters?

I define them as Alternate Costumes, similar to what Injustice does. There is no functional gameplay difference between using Ludwig or Bowser Jr. There isn't even the more extensive animation differences Richter, Dark Samus, or Daisy have. The only thing different about Ludwig from Bowser Jr. that separates him from any other alternate costume is having a different voice.

If we are on the subject of clones, I personally think well done clones can be a blast to have in Smash. Chrom and Ken in Ultimate, Falco in Melee, Lucina in Smash 4 onwards are great examples of that. They clearly are using another fighter as a base, but they take just enough of a different spin on things to feel distinct and fresh. I know plenty of people foam at the mouth when they even see any clones in the roster, but honestly I think they add to the game when done well. I love the nuances of playing Chrom instead of Roy or Lucina instead of Marth. Semi clones like Wolf in Brawl or Isabelle in Ultimate also are sick imo. I wish if they did do more clones we got more Chroms, Kens, and Lucinas and less Daisys and Richters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Out of curiosity, what do we all define Alph and the Koopalings as? Model Swap characters?

Well, as said before, Alternate Costumes.

Though yeah, they are Model Swap Fighters, and I forgot to mention them too. My bad. It's just that they are exact thing that won't get separated unless they are given some different gameplay(no matter how terribly done it is). Any differences in animations' hurtboxes/hitboxes. No matter how minor it is, that requires a different slot. That's the rule of how the split offs were designed(in fact, this is exactly what Sakurai noted when he split off Lucina. That's because the character has different stats in some way, which screws up the recording data. Winning as Lucina, who has different stats from Marth, wouldn't be separated at all in any way in the programming. Thus, it's lopsided in determining who actually won all those matches). Now, whether it's because "I can't figure out a good way to designate which costume is being used" or moreso "I think they are ultimately different gameplay and should be separated" doesn't matter too much. Maybe it's a bit of each, as he's mentioned the first one before, but the second one is a big reason why people can get annoyed by any character updates. The original one they got used to is not always easy to adjust to, after all).

 

[HyperSomari64]

I define them as Alternate Costumes, similar to what Injustice does. There is no functional gameplay difference between using Ludwig or Bowser Jr. There isn't even the more extensive animation differences Richter, Dark Samus, or Daisy have. The only thing different about Ludwig from Bowser Jr. that separates him from any other alternate costume is having a different voice.

That makes me wish Smash had a premium skins system. Like Mario and Luigi as the Great Giana Sisters (shout-outs to crazybenjamin ), Sonic with Bubsy, Cloud being the other FF protags, PAc as K.C. Munchkin, etc. The possibilites are infinite

 

[SPEN18]

Someone brought up how there's not many legendaries on the PKMN roster.

Most legendaries, like starters, have a brief peak of relevance but tail off quickly after that. Within that category of characters, the legends typically get ranked lower than the starters for whatever reason (usually the starters are marketed a bit more).
Besides cover legendaries, there is also the consideration that legendaries tend to appear only in postgame content or, even worse, as limited-time promotional events. If they have a role in the main story it's usually as side characters. So they don't often have much role-wise or plot-wise importance unless they're the boxart mons. In some cases there is even a significant delay before they are officially recognized as part of the Dex; in those cases they can't even take part in pre-release or release-time marketing.
This is all without mentioning that Sakurai would potentially have implementation issues with some of the legends due to body type and/or size.

From my perspective Rayquaza and Lugia seem to have the best resumes out of the cover legends. But even then, if Sakurai had issues with Ridley for so long then it's likely he'd have issues with these two. That said, if there was a way to make the "giant snake" body type work, Rayquaza in particular would be a cool addition IMO; at least they could've kept him as a boss because he was awesome in SSE...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Someone brought up how there's not many legendaries on the PKMN roster.

Most legendaries, like starters, have a brief peak of relevance but tail off quickly after that. Within that category of characters, the legends typically get ranked lower than the starters for whatever reason (usually the starters are marketed a bit more).
Besides cover legendaries, there is also the consideration that legendaries tend to appear only in postgame content or, even worse, as limited-time promotional events. If they have a role in the main story it's usually as side characters. So they don't often have much role-wise or plot-wise importance unless they're the boxart mons. In some cases there is even a significant delay before they are officially recognized as part of the Dex; in those cases they can't even take part in pre-release or release-time marketing.
This is all without mentioning that Sakurai would potentially have implementation issues with some of the legends due to body type and/or size.

From my perspective Rayquaza and Lugia seem to have the best resumes out of the cover legends. But even then, if Sakurai had issues with Ridley for so long then it's likely he'd have issues with these two. That said, if there was a way to make the "giant snake" body type work, Rayquaza in particular would be a cool addition IMO; at least they could've kept him as a boss because he was awesome in SSE...

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

I have no reason to share this pointless trivia i just thought it was neat.

 

[fogbadge]

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

I have no reason to share this pointless trivia i just thought it was neat.

very quickly added to the games I would think

 

[RileyXY1]

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

I have no reason to share this pointless trivia i just thought it was neat.

We already have Lucario, who actually did debut in the anime before the games.

 

[SPEN18]

Common sense resolves most of the "are they videogame characters" debates. In particular I think all Pokemon are eligible. I just don't put much stock into anime relevance except to the extent that it impacts other things that I do put stock into like popularity and cross-media marketing.

 

[fogbadge]

We already have Lucario, who actually did debut in the anime before the games.

there’s a difference between debuting in the anime and being made for the anime. by all accounts lucario was made for the games

 

[chocolatejr9]

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

I have no reason to share this pointless trivia i just thought it was neat.

I'll just post this to give people a better idea just how crazy Lugia's creation is:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

there’s a difference between debuting in the anime and being made for the anime. by all accounts lucario was made for the games

They're both game characters because Pokemon is a game franchise. Lugia is absolutely a game character at the end of the day. And already appears in Smash more than once, regardless of how.

It's the franchise that really matters. Was it made as a game franchise? Yes? Then anything in it is fair game.

Could things change anyway where it doesn't matter? Maybe. It's a matter of licensing, but with a new director, principles could change too. But regardless, Lugia like all the other Pokemon are pretty clearly game characters. They're still actually meant for the games regardless. Just a bigger advertisement method~

 

[fogbadge]

They're both game characters because Pokemon is a game franchise. Lugia is absolutely a game character at the end of the day. And already appears in Smash more than once, regardless of how.

It's the franchise that really matters. Was it made as a game franchise? Yes? Then anything in it is fair game.

Could things change anyway where it doesn't matter? Maybe. It's a matter of licensing, but with a new director, principles could change too. But regardless, Lugia like all the other Pokemon are pretty clearly game characters. They're still actually meant for the games regardless. Just a bigger advertisement method~

well alright then

 

[Perkilator]

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

Regardless, it was still made for a franchise that started as a video game and at the very least, made it as a Poké Ball summon in Smash.

 

[Stratos]

Some people assume that the Pokémon franchise became famous because of its anime series, but I would say that it has become famous for what it is, as a video game series.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Some people assume that the Pokémon franchise became famous because of its anime series, but I would say that it has become famous for what it is, as a video game series.

It is worth noting that some places got the anime first, so it does play a hefty role to some degree, but the video game part is still clearly the most important~

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I dont think Lugia could be a playable fighter because it wasnt made as a game character. lol

It was made by the anime staff for the anime first and foremost but Gamefreak liked it enough that they wanted to put it in the games afterwards.

I have no reason to share this pointless trivia i just thought it was neat.

That rule gets stretched a bit with Pokemon, considering most of them use their anime voices.

But I love how that's your objection and not the fact the thing ****in' dwarves Ridley

 

[PeridotGX]

Someone brought up how there's not many legendaries on the PKMN roster.

Most legendaries, like starters, have a brief peak of relevance but tail off quickly after that. Within that category of characters, the legends typically get ranked lower than the starters for whatever reason (usually the starters are marketed a bit more).
Besides cover legendaries, there is also the consideration that legendaries tend to appear only in postgame content or, even worse, as limited-time promotional events. If they have a role in the main story it's usually as side characters. So they don't often have much role-wise or plot-wise importance unless they're the boxart mons. In some cases there is even a significant delay before they are officially recognized as part of the Dex; in those cases they can't even take part in pre-release or release-time marketing.
This is all without mentioning that Sakurai would potentially have implementation issues with some of the legends due to body type and/or size.

From my perspective Rayquaza and Lugia seem to have the best resumes out of the cover legends. But even then, if Sakurai had issues with Ridley for so long then it's likely he'd have issues with these two. That said, if there was a way to make the "giant snake" body type work, Rayquaza in particular would be a cool addition IMO; at least they could've kept him as a boss because he was awesome in SSE...

I think part of the problem is that when it comes to box legends you have to play favorites. This is different from the situation with Starters, as that decision isn't locked behind a $60 paywall (unless you're LGPE). You add Zacian, you upset the ~11 million people that picked Shield. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only legendary added is the only "big" legend that's never been version exclusive. Maybe the existence of DLC will change this, neither of the big legendaries from the SWSH DLC were exclusive and it's not looking like the SV DLC will have those either, we'll see.

 

[Soy_Man]

idk, I think legendaries are more suited to being pokeball pokemon, which is a perfectly adequate representation.