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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Ivander

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Also, which version of Alear is more popular - the male or the female version?
If you only look online, the female version will often look more popular because of things like artwork, memes and whatnot. Most male versions of Avatar characters will rarely get attention online compared to the female versions. Offline and in-game is a different story cause quite often depending on audience, the male version will be the version picked by most people compared to the female version.
The biggest example being Commander Shepard from Mass Effect. Online, you'll see more of female Shepard than Male Shepard, but in-game statistics mention Male Shepard being chosen by players alot more than female Shepard.
 

Dan Quixote

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If you only look online, the female version will often look more popular because of things like artwork, memes and whatnot. Most male versions of Avatar characters will rarely get attention online compared to the female versions. Offline and in-game is a different story cause quite often depending on audience, the male version will be the version picked by most people compared to the female version.
The biggest example being Commander Shepard from Mass Effect. Online, you'll see more of female Shepard than Male Shepard, but in-game statistics mention Male Shepard being chosen by players alot more than female Shepard.
idk if I agree with that. It really depends on the specific game imo. Like with Fates, female corrin is definitely more popular. Same with Engage, like you said, with female Alear taking all the promotional material. Three Houses is pretty even, but I say it does lean female Byleth when it comes to popularity. But then when it comes to Awakening, I totally disagree, since I see male Robin in promotional material and fandom content way more often.

Maybe we're just in different parts of the Internet but I also super disagree with Shepard. Male Shepard is everywhere. His voice is in the ads and he's always the one chosen for the many Mass Effect memes out there.
 

fogbadge

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If you only look online, the female version will often look more popular because of things like artwork, memes and whatnot.
and we all know why. because the internet is full of homosexual boys who are in denial and are overcompensating








disclaimer: joke
 

Ivander

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Still waiting if Heroes releases a Summer Alear.
Well, Three Houses had to wait until almost a year before Three Houses got Summer versions, let alone a dedicated Seasonal event. Characters in the spoiler zone had to wait for around a year before they happened for FEH.
idk if I agree with that. It really depends on the specific game imo. Like with Fates, female corrin is definitely more popular. Same with Engage, like you said, with female Alear taking all the promotional material. Three Houses is pretty even, but I say it does lean female Byleth when it comes to popularity. But then when it comes to Awakening, I totally disagree, since I see male Robin in promotional material and fandom content way more often.

Maybe we're just in different parts of the Internet but I also super disagree with Shepard. Male Shepard is everywhere. His voice is in the ads and he's always the one chosen for the many Mass Effect memes out there.
Yeah, I did say rarely when it comes to Male Avatar versions. Male Robin and Male Shepard are a couple of the exceptions, another couple being Red from Pokemon Red/Blue/Green and the Hunter from Bloodborne. And Male Robin and Shepard being mainly used in advertisement for their games isn't a rarity. Even Male Corrin had advertisement, especially when it came to Birthright whereas Female Corrin was used for Conquest and we know which one is the more popular one(although some of Female Corrin's popularity is very questionable). And then you have Male Byleth being chosen instead of the female version for the Three Houses Emblem in FE:Engage, probably because of Female Corrin being chosen.

But that said, more than often, I see the female versions getting alot more attention than the male versions, even in memes(especially when it comes to Gloria from Pokemon Sword and Shield in particular, where practically everybody had a heyday with her). And quite often, it's not hard to believe why.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Well, Three Houses had to wait until almost a year before Three Houses got Summer versions, let alone a dedicated Seasonal event. Characters in the spoiler zone had to wait for around a year before they happened for FEH.

Yeah, I did say rarely when it comes to Male Avatar versions. Male Robin and Male Shepard are a couple of the exceptions, another couple being Red from Pokemon Red/Blue/Green and the Hunter from Bloodborne. And Male Robin and Shepard being mainly used in advertisement for their games isn't a rarity. Even Male Corrin had advertisement, especially when it came to Birthright whereas Female Corrin was used for Conquest and we know which one is the more popular one(although some of Female Corrin's popularity is very questionable). And then you have Male Byleth being chosen instead of the female version for the Three Houses Emblem in FE:Engage, probably because of Female Corrin being chosen.

But that said, more than often, I see the female versions getting alot more attention than the male versions, even in memes(especially when it comes to Gloria from Pokemon Sword and Shield in particular, where practically everybody had a heyday with her). And quite often, it's not hard to believe why.
I'm honestly impressd that Female Pokemon protagonists still get so much fanart when starting with Gen 7 they are designd to be as generic as possible because of character customization.
 

HyperSomari64

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I'm honestly impressd that Female Pokemon protagonists still get so much fanart when starting with Gen 7 they are designd to be as generic as possible because of character customization.
Blame Pikafan09 from giving Selene breasts the size of hot-air balloons :4pacman:
 
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cothero

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POV: This is Smash Ultimate Deluxe, revealed in late 2023 and released sometime in 2024/2025 for the new system.
All content from Ultimate + 8 new purchased DLC characters. Kamek being the first of them, free for some few days after release (kinda like PP).
All other 7 DLC characters comes with new stage, music, spirits and mii costumes, just like in Ultimate.

This would be the complete roster: (NO ALEAR!)

roster completozz  copy2 copy copy2.png


would you be satisfied?
 
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CannonStreak

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POV: This is Smash Ultimate Deluxe, revealed in late 2023 and released sometime in 2024/2025 for the new system.
All content from Ultimate + 8 new purchased DLC characters. Kamek being the first of them, free for some few days after release (kinda like PP).
All other 7 DLC characters comes with new stage, music, spirits and mii costumes, just like in Ultimate.

This would be the complete roster:

View attachment 368381

would you be satisfied?
Yes, but why are we still talking about a Deluxe edition?
 

Perkilator

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POV: This is Smash Ultimate Deluxe, revealed in late 2023 and released sometime in 2024/2025 for the new system.
All content from Ultimate + 8 new purchased DLC characters. Kamek being the first of them, free for some few days after release (kinda like PP).
All other 7 DLC characters comes with new stage, music, spirits and mii costumes, just like in Ultimate.

This would be the complete roster:

View attachment 368381

would you be satisfied?
Only ones I really get behind are Noah and Crash. Here's my hypothetical additions, if anyone's interested:
  • #83. Waluigi
  • #84. Raven Beak
  • #85. Bandana Waddle Dee
  • #86-87. Noah & Mio
  • #88. Dr. Eggman
  • #89. 2B
  • #90. Crash Bandicoot
  • #14ε. Dry Bowser
  • #36ε. Dixie Kong
  • #40ε. Alph
 

CannonStreak

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Only ones I really get behind are Noah and Crash. Here's my hypothetical additions, if anyone's interested:
  • #83. Waluigi
  • #84. Raven Beak
  • #85. Bandana Waddle Dee
  • #86-87. Noah & Mio
  • #88. Dr. Eggman
  • #89. 2B
  • #90. Crash Bandicoot
  • #14ε. Dry Bowser
  • #36ε. Dixie Kong
  • #40ε. Alph
Even better, if you ask me! I like most of those characters.
 

cothero

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Only ones I really get behind are Noah and Crash. Here's my hypothetical additions, if anyone's interested:
  • #83. Waluigi
  • #84. Raven Beak
  • #85. Bandana Waddle Dee
  • #86-87. Noah & Mio
  • #88. Dr. Eggman
  • #89. 2B
  • #90. Crash Bandicoot
  • #14ε. Dry Bowser
  • #36ε. Dixie Kong
  • #40ε. Alph
Waluigi... Does Sakurai really likes the character? I mean, i don't want to undervalue him, i know Nintendo is aware of how requested he is, but they literally chose to add a Piranha Plant instead...

As for the other character, that's OK i guess.
 
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CannonStreak

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Waluigi... Does Sakurai really likes the character? I mean, i don't want to undervalue him, i know Nintendo is aware of how requested he is, but they literally chose to add a Piranha Plant instead...

As for the other character, that's OK i guess.
Just because he was an Assist Trophy three times already does not mean Sakurai does not like him. The outcry for Waluigi boomed after he was revealed as an Assist Trophy in Ultimate, and that was planned from the start, along with Piranha Plant being playable as well if I recall correctly. The Plant was only moved to being a DLC character later along the road.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Just because he was an Assist Trophy three times already does not mean Sakurai does not like him. The outcry for Waluigi boomed after he was revealed as an Assist Trophy in Ultimate, and that was planned from the start, along with Piranha Plant being playable as well if I recall correctly. The Plant was only moved to being a DLC character later along the road.
We theorize Plant was originally base. We only found data on it well after DLC was greenlit, among various other things that can go either way. To be fair, there's really only one outright weird argument for it at best while the rest have some reasonable merit. But the timing found does not point towards it being base, because we already knew it had to be worked on at least 6 months prior to its release. ...Which is around when we found it in a datamine of a demo. This basically means all we confirmed is that work was started on when the game was nearly done, and nothing else.

The Palutena's Guidance already had generic DLC stuff done, meaning it overall would've been recorded in bulk very close to when DLC was greenlit, meaning it's not actual evidence it was clearly base. There's also no straight evidence of when it was done, or if it wasn't done in bulk, etc. This, again, makes the argument useless if there's no timeframe in itself. However, it couldn't have been finished overall recordings-wise until DLC was greenlit. That doesn't give enough real details.

Those are really the only two actual notable things, and there's more than one explanation for it. Whether it was base or not, its spirit wouldn't be usable. If it was DLC originally and it had a spirit at one point? It'd be removed. If it was base and moved to DLC... the spirit would be removed. It basically is a nothing burger of a point. If you look at the information, there's one that loosely points to it being DLC(the timing of the data found) and two nothing burgers that really have no useful evidence either which way.

But yeah, Waluigi got some pretty big backlash, but that's also due to often dueling with Daisy for that "spin-off character spot" combined with him being used as an example of hurting AT's, and then Daisy showing up not soon after. Only two people actually were problematic about it. Nintendo actually did acknowledge this, which doesn't mean much other than the fact it's at least known how massively popular he is.
 

CannonStreak

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We theorize Plant was originally base. We only found data on it well after DLC was greenlit, among various other things that can go either way. To be fair, there's really only one outright weird argument for it at best while the rest have some reasonable merit. But the timing found does not point towards it being base, because we already knew it had to be worked on at least 6 months prior to its release. ...Which is around when we found it in a datamine of a demo. This basically means all we confirmed is that work was started on when the game was nearly done, and nothing else.

The Palutena's Guidance already had generic DLC stuff done, meaning it overall would've been recorded in bulk very close to when DLC was greenlit, meaning it's not actual evidence it was clearly base. There's also no straight evidence of when it was done, or if it wasn't done in bulk, etc. This, again, makes the argument useless if there's no timeframe in itself. However, it couldn't have been finished overall recordings-wise until DLC was greenlit. That doesn't give enough real details.

Those are really the only two actual notable things, and there's more than one explanation for it. Whether it was base or not, its spirit wouldn't be usable. If it was DLC originally and it had a spirit at one point? It'd be removed. If it was base and moved to DLC... the spirit would be removed. It basically is a nothing burger of a point. If you look at the information, there's one that loosely points to it being DLC(the timing of the data found) and two nothing burgers that really have no useful evidence either which way.

But yeah, Waluigi got some pretty big backlash, but that's also due to often dueling with Daisy for that "spin-off character spot" combined with him being used as an example of hurting AT's, and then Daisy showing up not soon after. Only two people actually were problematic about it. Nintendo actually did acknowledge this, which doesn't mean much other than the fact it's at least known how massively popular he is.
Yeah, but any direct claims aside; I was talking about, or at least was trying to talk about more about the theoretical and what was found about Piranha Plant, in other words, the evidence more so. Don't you think you are being a bit too hard, or way too technical? Granted, I was mostly unsure of Piranha Plant being base game, and I DID say "If I recall correctly". But my point is that whatever the case is, Piranha Plant was not too far off, or may not have been too far off (if only we had an actual time table) from Waluigi, and most of all, the Plant was a separate thing from Waluigi being an Assist Trophy.
 

DarthEnderX

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, but any direct claims aside; I was talking about, or at least was trying to talk about more about the theoretical and what was found about Piranha Plant, in other words, the evidence more so. Don't you think you are being a bit too hard, or way too technical? Granted, I was mostly unsure of Piranha Plant being base game, and I DID say "If I recall correctly". But my point is that whatever the case is, Piranha Plant was not too far off, or may not have been too far off (if only we had an actual time table) from Waluigi, and most of all, the Plant was a separate thing from Waluigi being an Assist Trophy.
I wasn't comparing them, actually.

Waluigi's situation sucks.

Plant's situation is complicated, and it was just giving all the specific information we have(while saying why I don't believe for one second it has any real evidence for being base. Just dubious information that lack context besides the demo information).

The point of the timing of the DLC being greenlit is about the only information we have to figure out a timeline. I already outlined the information the previous post, but the only core factor is DLC was not actually planned at any point during base alone. Nintendo approached Sakurai with the idea of it in July 2017. That actually means DLC characters do have a fairly clear timetable of when they'd be decided on. There's also hints from Sakurai's words that he never changed the character project plan for Base at any point, which would means Plant deliberately wasn't part of it. Though it's still YMMV on how his wording works(we also have had odd translations before).

But overall, the evidence mainly points to Plant being DLC when you analyze the timings, how general recordings work(there's zero reason to actually believe the Guidances were done at multiple times instead of trying to get done in a single time period, especially with few needing to be done. It's an easy thing to do near the end of the creation cycle, but also with a minor amount of characters to record lines for compared to Smash 4(as many are recycled), this actually means the idea it was recording multiple times apart is really hard to believe. Why would they waste money getting the same actors and actresses together instead of trying to do as much as possible bulk-wise? Very few characters even have lines, so getting less than 10 done all at once makes far more sense too. Especially when you consider how much content the game had to go with, and still had issues at launch while missing multiple normal modes(like Home Run Context or Stage Builder).

That's pretty much why I don't believe for one second the Guidances are actual evidence of it being base. It doesn't add up. Why would they pay actors and actresses yet again to record just a few lines instead of doing it in bulk within closer to a week/month at most(depending upon how various contracts work, etc). Likewise, do note we don't see any actual lines from the game via demos or trailers till after DLC was officially greenlit, showing even more... a lot of this stuff was recorded next to each other. The only time stuff was recorded far apart would be during the actual DLC passes(as there's really no way to record them near each other. Kind of the downside of having them revealed and super far apart).

I hope that explains it well enough to what I mean. As, to be fair, the Guidances are far more complicated in how they would be done(or in a way, super simple to how it would be done). Overall, I'd say it's most likely the Guidances were finished up around when DLC was greenlit, with Plant being the first DLC character with one, and nobody else being outright figured out enough to get one(the generic DLC message is the same way for 4. Mewtwo was clearly greenlit to go as DLC specifically yet didn't get one. That does show there's a very low chance they'd do recording sessions apart to such a massive degree. It's a bad idea to keep them apart).
 

CannonStreak

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I wasn't comparing them, actually.

Waluigi's situation sucks.

Plant's situation is complicated, and it was just giving all the specific information we have(while saying why I don't believe for one second it has any real evidence for being base. Just dubious information that lack context besides the demo information).

The point of the timing of the DLC being greenlit is about the only information we have to figure out a timeline. I already outlined the information the previous post, but the only core factor is DLC was not actually planned at any point during base alone. Nintendo approached Sakurai with the idea of it in July 2017. That actually means DLC characters do have a fairly clear timetable of when they'd be decided on. There's also hints from Sakurai's words that he never changed the character project plan for Base at any point, which would means Plant deliberately wasn't part of it. Though it's still YMMV on how his wording works(we also have had odd translations before).

But overall, the evidence mainly points to Plant being DLC when you analyze the timings, how general recordings work(there's zero reason to actually believe the Guidances were done at multiple times instead of trying to get done in a single time period, especially with few needing to be done. It's an easy thing to do near the end of the creation cycle, but also with a minor amount of characters to record lines for compared to Smash 4(as many are recycled), this actually means the idea it was recording multiple times apart is really hard to believe. Why would they waste money getting the same actors and actresses together instead of trying to do as much as possible bulk-wise? Very few characters even have lines, so getting less than 10 done all at once makes far more sense too. Especially when you consider how much content the game had to go with, and still had issues at launch while missing multiple normal modes(like Home Run Context or Stage Builder).

That's pretty much why I don't believe for one second the Guidances are actual evidence of it being base. It doesn't add up. Why would they pay actors and actresses yet again to record just a few lines instead of doing it in bulk within closer to a week/month at most(depending upon how various contracts work, etc). Likewise, do note we don't see any actual lines from the game via demos or trailers till after DLC was officially greenlit, showing even more... a lot of this stuff was recorded next to each other. The only time stuff was recorded far apart would be during the actual DLC passes(as there's really no way to record them near each other. Kind of the downside of having them revealed and super far apart).

I hope that explains it well enough to what I mean. As, to be fair, the Guidances are far more complicated in how they would be done(or in a way, super simple to how it would be done). Overall, I'd say it's most likely the Guidances were finished up around when DLC was greenlit, with Plant being the first DLC character with one, and nobody else being outright figured out enough to get one(the generic DLC message is the same way for 4. Mewtwo was clearly greenlit to go as DLC specifically yet didn't get one. That does show there's a very low chance they'd do recording sessions apart to such a massive degree. It's a bad idea to keep them apart).
Yeah, I don't think I was talking about Plant actually being in the base game as much as there was evidence; but don't get me wrong and don't take that as discouragement. It was nice for you to say what you said (even though I was talking about both Waluigi and the Plant). Also, what you said was nice to know.

It does seem like Piranha Plant though, however he was planned, was in a different case from the other DLC characters; and that includes those from Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. I wonder why they'd do a Guidance for the Plant and not do one for the other DLC characters?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, I don't think I was talking about Plant actually being in the base game as much as there was evidence; but don't get me wrong and don't take that as discouragement. It was nice for you to say what you said (even though I was talking about both Waluigi and the Plant). Also, what you said was nice to know.

It does seem like Piranha Plant though, however he was planned, was in a different case from the other DLC characters; and that includes those from Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. I wonder why they'd do a Guidance for the Plant and not do one for the other DLC characters?
They had time to do so since it was worked on before the game was finished. The Guidances was at least finished up by July 2017(this is confirmed either way by the fact we have a generic DLC message. Even if it was done in chunks, for whatever reason, clearly something was done near or after that particular date).
 

CannonStreak

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They had time to do so since it was worked on before the game was finished. The Guidances was at least finished up by July 2017(this is confirmed either way by the fact we have a generic DLC message. Even if it was done in chunks, for whatever reason, clearly something was done near or after that particular date).
So, where do you think that puts Piranha Plant on the time table, if it was confirmed that it was July 2017 that the Guidances finished? I mean, Smash Bros. Ultimate would come out more than a year later, right?
 

NintenZ

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POV: This is Smash Ultimate Deluxe, revealed in late 2023 and released sometime in 2024/2025 for the new system.
All content from Ultimate + 8 new purchased DLC characters. Kamek being the first of them, free for some few days after release (kinda like PP).
All other 7 DLC characters comes with new stage, music, spirits and mii costumes, just like in Ultimate.

This would be the complete roster: (NO ALEAR!)

View attachment 368381

would you be satisfied?
I’d be pretty miffed at no Tales character but hey I got Noah and Alucard so I’d be down.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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So, where do you think that puts Piranha Plant on the time table, if it was confirmed that it was July 2017 that the Guidances finished? I mean, Smash Bros. Ultimate would come out more than a year later, right?
Far more than a year later it would. PP was at least worked on, as confirmed by the demo, but August of 2018. Could be as early as June or July, mayhaps. So that gives it around a year to be decided upon to add. We also know that the first Pass was greenlit by November 2018, meaning that PP would've been determined the same time as the pass. However, we also see that Sakurai lumps PP closer to the non-Pass characters, lightly implying it was decided first, and later the pass characters were decided upon.

So I'd say probably around July 2017 - September 2017 as a very quick guesstimate(which gives lots of time for the other 5). I remember B&K being decided upon March 2018 or something like that.

Joker started sometime after Plant was heavily worked on, and with what little we saw, it's unclear if he was started after PP was mainly done(bar basic gameplay testing) or somewhat before. We don't have a very good timetable at that point.
 

smashkirby

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Funny you mention that. Didn't Tecmo also have a wrestling game on the NES during that time?
Did it? I legit don't remember. Like, I know of the Tecmo Bowl, but Tecmo Pro Wrestling...

Only ones I really get behind are Noah and Crash. Here's my hypothetical additions, if anyone's interested:
  • #83. Waluigi
  • #84. Raven Beak
  • #85. Bandana Waddle Dee
  • #86-87. Noah & Mio
  • #88. Dr. Eggman
  • #89. 2B
  • #90. Crash Bandicoot
  • #14ε. Dry Bowser
  • #36ε. Dixie Kong
  • #40ε. Alph
Not going to lie, I could get behind this!
 

HyperSomari64

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Wonder Smash

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Did it? I legit don't remember. Like, I know of the Tecmo Bowl, but Tecmo Pro Wrestling...
It does exist! Tsuppari Oozumou! A sumo wrestling game only released in Japan! It’s on the Japanese Nintendo Switch Online app, it’s very fun.
There was also a Tecmo pro wrestling game too, which was what I was referring to. I remember playing that game myself.


I miss this game so much. Such memories!
 
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