Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

And the fact his series might be set in the Street Fighter universe, though last time I checked that wasn't exactly certain...

I'm pretty sure it is canon.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, to me, Strider is a different case from characters like Geno, but he is not the only one. As shown in the Nintendo Direct, they, at Sega, are making a new Samba de Amigo game. Aside from a remake of the original game on the Wii, not much has come out of that game series, so I can imagine people saying things like, "What is this game?".

I mean, it is nice to see that they are making a sequel to an old game, but they are going to have to do a lot more than just bring back Samba de Amigo to make it successful, or even popular for that matter. The same goes for obscure characters like Geno. I can imagine that you can't just bring an old character like Geno back in a Smash Bros. game as a playable character after many years since the one game he was in AND expect many people to catch on to him that easily. Smash Bros. alone won't be able to do that. Even if he were to be playable, Square Enix would have to do more with the character in some way outside of Smash Bros. to bring back his appeal and make him more popular. Unfortunately, I don't see Square Enix doing something like that.

 

[smashkirby]

I believe Chalien's a Baten Kaitos/SimCity-style situation yeah, although I read somewhere that they outright acquired the IP. I'm pretty sure KoroKoro was developed internally at Nintendo though

Yeah, Li'l Blue seems to be in the same situation that Sagi, Milly, and ESPECIALLY Dr. Wright is in. But I never heard anything about Nintendo buying his series, let alone develop a KoroKoro game themsleves...

Startropics being ignored completely in Ultimate still breaks my heart, even to the point where they didn't give it any spirits. It's such a fun game on the NES and I feel the series deserves at least a little representation, Mike Jones as a fighter is wishful thinking but having him as an assist trophy would be really cool

"His game wasn't released in Japan" is not a valid reason, since the Elite Beat Agents got a Trophy in Brawl before the Osu! sequel included them as skins. Or the American Classic Sonic sticker in Brawl too.

Poor StarTropics. It and Gumshoe STILL not having any representation in Smash is truly disappointing (and weird) to see. Like a couple of you have said, the fact that the Elite Beat Agents AND Elite Beat Divas all got SOMETHING in Brawl and Ultimate feels a bit... unfair, really.

I SHOULD mention though, Sakurai apparently made clear in an old Melee interview that Western Nintendo content would NOT be represented in that game, even with Trophies, so I wonder what that says about Sakurai, Smash Bros., and Nintendo's JP division as a whole...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean in fairness Samba de Amigo, its both likely a relatively modest game in terms of budget, and with the continual success of stuff Just Dance, there clearly is a market for rhythm titles, especially ones with the install base of the Switch. Between North America and Japan, its likely in a solid position to do decent numbers, which is probably what Sega's expecting.

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean in fairness Samba de Amigo, its both likely a relatively modest game in terms of budget, and with the continual success of stuff Just Dance, there clearly is a market for rhythm titles, especially ones with the install base of the Switch. Between North American and Japan, its likely in a decent position to do decent numbers, which is probably what Sega's expecting.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Still, I think what I said about my comparison between that and Super Mario RPG applies, but you most certainly can't be wrong. Also to note is that the next Samba de Amigo is not a spinoff game, unlike Super Mario RPG, among other advantages it has over that like being more used, like now. I still think they have some work to do to make it appeal to some people, even with the thing you said about rhythm games, but yeah, you do have a point still.

Unrelated, but I would love to see StarTropics in Smash Bros. in any way. I wish Nintendo would acknowledge it more.

 

[Lenidem]

Well, to me, Strider is a different case from characters like Geno, but he is not the only one. As shown in the Nintendo Direct, they, at Sega, are making a new Samba de Amigo game. Aside from a remake of the original game on the Wii, not much has come out of that game series, so I can imagine people saying things like, "What is this game?".

I mean, it is nice to see that they are making a sequel to an old game, but they are going to have to do a lot more than just bring back Samba de Amigo to make it successful, or even popular for that matter. The same goes for obscure characters like Geno. I can imagine that you can't just bring an old character like Geno back in a Smash Bros. game as a playable character after many years since the one game he was in AND expect many people to catch on to him that easily. Smash Bros. alone won't be able to do that. Even if he were to be playable, Square Enix would have to do more with the character in some way outside of Smash Bros. to bring back his appeal and make him more popular. Unfortunately, I don't see Square Enix doing something like that.

Well, they basically resurrected the Ice Climbers, ROB (although he was playable in Mario Kart DS for some reason), Mr Game & Watch, and the dog from Duck Hunt just for Smash, and as far as I know, people were content. They could do the same with Geno, if they wanted.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm pretty sure it is canon.

Oh yeah, I'm like 99% certain it is. I think at this point, most people are just waiting for one of the devs to just come out and say it. Kinda like what happened with Rival Schools, y'know?

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm personally not confident in Alear because I don't really see the potential in their moveset.

I played all of Engage just recently, don't get me wrong I really like them as a character but their moves are fairly limited even when using Emblems.

They could ideally take creative liberties with their moveset, add different moves that they don't use in their game and have it that they change to different forms ignoring the three turn limit, but I'm just not sold personally.

That and the fact that Sakurai previously dropped the idea of Rex with Pyra in the background cause he didn't want to upset fans and the whole concept of Emblems is that it's previous characters from different Fire Emblem games, Alear's default Emblem is Marth too and considering Smash has a bias for using character's default kits (Such as Joker just using Arsene instead of other Personas) I'm not sure how that would work.

Don't take this as me ****ting on Alear btw that's not my intention I love them as a character and I would be really happy if they somehow managed to make them work I just don't know if they will.

Alear could have a Byleth styled each-move-represents and just not pick Emblems that already are in Smash, but then again he's Emblem Marth in Engage so he's not the same Marth so it'd be okay. Shoot especially ok if Alear's Emblem Marth attack is a move that Marth doesn't even have.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, they basically resurrected the Ice Climbers, ROB (although he was playable in Mario Kart DS for some reason), Mr Game & Watch, and the dog from Duck Hunt just for Smash, and as far as I know, people were content. They could do the same with Geno, if they wanted.

Technically, those characters have been resurrected for longer. Sure, they could do the same with Geno, but not only is he not an Nintendo character, but technically, I think many were more familiar with some of the characters you listed. Besides, it is not like Geno would be as recognizable if brought back for Smash Bros. Sure, that could change over time if they kept using him, but I don't think he has the same appeal as Nintendo's retro characters given he is from Square Enix, and from a spin off game. Maybe I could be wrong, but I don't think Geno's chances and circumstances are the same as those characters. Not to mention, there could be a chance that he is not used much in Smash, kinda like the Ice Climbers if I am not mistaken; and if his moveset is not made to appeal to many, I can see plenty not care about him, especially if he isn't a high enough tier. I think characters like Ice Climbers, and R.O.B., who have not had games in a while, may not even be super popular as fighters in Smash, and may be known only because they were in Smash. Geno could have the same situation as them.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If they didnt bring back Geno for Mario Hoops, Sports mix or Fortune street i dont know why they would put him in Smash.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'll be completely honest here, and I may get **** for this, but I truly do not get the appeal of Alear's hypothetical Smash inclusion.

First off, I heavily dislike their design, I think it's completely unappealing. Secondly, like, I'll be honest, if their whole deal is summoning other FE characters then I'd rather just have these other FE characters get in instead. If you're gonna have Lyn or Sigurd or Celica or w/e summoned out as part of a character who I find much less interesting than any of the aforementioned, then I'd rather they just get in instead.

Like, I try to not be too hard on Fire Emblem in Smash cause it got where it is now thanks to circumstance and honestly there are still some genuinely cool potential picks left. And Byleth I'd say has aged super well, coming from a super acclaimed and successful game in the franchise. But Alear to me really would just feel like more Fire Emblem for the sake of more Fire Emblem.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm pretty sure it is canon.

Zeku is a Strider yeah

 

[fogbadge]

Well, they basically resurrected the Ice Climbers, ROB (although he was playable in Mario Kart DS for some reason), Mr Game & Watch, and the dog from Duck Hunt just for Smash, and as far as I know, people were content. They could do the same with Geno, if they wanted.

well nintendo are always refencing ROB in games so he's still there regardless of if people know him. as for the dog, well duck hunt is the second best selling game of nes and the dog himself is infamous in gaming circles

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm pretty sure it is canon.

It's heavily implied that Zeku is creating an organization like the Striders. But not outright confirmed that Strider actually takes place in the future of the SF universe.

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's heavily implied that Zeku is creating an organization like the Striders. But not outright confirmed that Strider actually takes place in the future of the SF universe.

Yeah, like I said, we're pretty much just waiting to see if one of the devs confirms it or not.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I'd be fine with Alear should they make it in. They're a fun character. My issue is that they seem to combine several inclusion barriers into one character: poor timing, the Rex Problem, not being as unique without relying on the Emblem Rings which would also require more high quality models, and the Arsene issue (they'd likely just use their default summon) making things redundant when their main summon is the one Fire Emblem character on the roster who is never ever getting cut.

I still think timing is the biggest issue, but I could 100% see Alear getting in as an Assist instead, maybe using either Sigurd or Celica's Emblem Ring depending on how close they are to the enemy: if they're close, they summon Sigurd and use Override to charge through them and stun them. If they're at a distance, they summon Celica and use Warp Ragnarok to teleport behind them and hit them with a giant blast of fire magic.

 

[Speed Weed]

Yeah, Li'l Blue seems to be in the same situation that Sagi, Milly, and ESPECIALLY Dr. Wright is in. But I never heard anything about Nintendo buying his series, let alone develop a KoroKoro game themsleves...

For the record, I wanna make sure we're talking about the same game here - do you mean the GBA game KoroKoro Puzzle: Happy Panechu? Cause that's the one I'm talking about, and that one was made internally at Nintendo

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The way I see it, I really don't think we'll get the Switch's successor until late 2025, and considering Smash games usually happen in a console's second year, that's why I think 2027 is the time frame we'd be looking at. Maybe 2026 depending on when in 2025 we get said successor.

I could see the Switch’s successor coming in 2026.

 

[Lenidem]

Technically, those characters have been resurrected for longer. Sure, they could do the same with Geno, but not only is he not an Nintendo character, but technically, I think many were more familiar with some of the characters you listed. Besides, it is not like Geno would be as recognizable if brought back for Smash Bros. Sure, that could change over time if they kept using him, but I don't think he has the same appeal as Nintendo's retro characters given he is from Square Enix, and from a spin off game. Maybe I could be wrong, but I don't think Geno's chances and circumstances are the same as those characters. Not to mention, there could be a chance that he is not used much in Smash, kinda like the Ice Climbers if I am not mistaken; and if his moveset is not made to appeal to many, I can see plenty not care about him, especially if he isn't a high enough tier. I think characters like Ice Climbers, and R.O.B., who have not had games in a while, may not even be super popular as fighters in Smash, and may be known only because they were in Smash. Geno could have the same situation as them.

You're right, Geno is not nearly as recognizable as the characters I mentionned. I was just saying that because I thought that you meant that some kind of revival was more or less necessary for obscure character to come in Smash's spotlight.

 

[Mamboo07]

I truly do not get the appeal of Alear's hypothetical Smash inclusion.

New Game = New Smash reps

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Imagine an Emblem ring item, that works like an assist trophy or Pokeball but instead summons an anime sword fighter.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Imagine an Emblem ring item, that works like an assist trophy or Pokeball but instead summons an anime sword fighter.

If they make it work like how it‘s portrayed in FE Engage so that the Emblem stays next to your character and performs follow-up attacks when your character lands attacks, instead of doing their own thing like Pokeballs and ATs do, it’d actually be a pretty unique item, since it wouldn’t create massive stage control but would instead give you massive combo potential for its duration.

 

[Ivander]

Imagine an Emblem ring item, that works like an assist trophy or Pokeball but instead summons an anime sword fighter.

I much would rather shoot out said anime sword fighters.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly I'd be fine with Alear should they make it in. They're a fun character. My issue is that they seem to combine several inclusion barriers into one character: poor timing, the Rex Problem, not being as unique without relying on the Emblem Rings which would also require more high quality models, and the Arsene issue (they'd likely just use their default summon) making things redundant when their main summon is the one Fire Emblem character on the roster who is never ever getting cut.

well the rex issue shouldn't be a problem as the issue was two highly detailed characters being on stage at the same time. so we can presume they'd get arounf this the same way they did with arsene. transparent and intangible which makes sense for an emblem ring

 

[CannonStreak]

You're right, Geno is not nearly as recognizable as the characters I mentionned. I was just saying that because I thought that you meant that some kind of revival was more or less necessary for obscure character to come in Smash's spotlight.

Not necessarily. But still, do have a cookie. You tried.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not necessarily. But still, do have a cookie. You tried.

Why so condescending?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly I'd be fine with Alear should they make it in. They're a fun character. My issue is that they seem to combine several inclusion barriers into one character: poor timing, the Rex Problem, not being as unique without relying on the Emblem Rings which would also require more high quality models, and the Arsene issue (they'd likely just use their default summon) making things redundant when their main summon is the one Fire Emblem character on the roster who is never ever getting cut.

I still think timing is the biggest issue, but I could 100% see Alear getting in as an Assist instead, maybe using either Sigurd or Celica's Emblem Ring depending on how close they are to the enemy: if they're close, they summon Sigurd and use Override to charge through them and stun them. If they're at a distance, they summon Celica and use Warp Ragnarok to teleport behind them and hit them with a giant blast of fire magic.

They could include Alear without them using Marth as Emblem, or any of the Emblems at all. Heroes also has the female Alear fighting without Emblems, with a statement saying "we can't seem to summon our Emblems in this world". So it has happened before.

Also :

Spoiler

Alear is the 13th Emblem and could have a moveset based around that?

 

[CannonStreak]

Why so condescending?

Sorry, being condescending was not my intention. I meant better. Maybe I should have said something else. I meant it as a compliment, or an attempt at one. I had a feeling that was bad to say, but I didn't think it would be as bad as you put it. I did not mean to be like that, so yeah...sorry.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Odd comparison, but he's like a Strider Hiryu; a character with loads of fighter potential with the bad fortune of belonging to a company rich in popular/iconic characters that are largely ahead of him in numerous ways.

There is at least a similitude.
Geno is co-owned by Ninty and Squenix.
While Strider is co-owned between Capcom and Moto Hikaku (a manga group like CLAMP but male)
This ironically makes his chances take a nosedive since his manga was released before the Arcade game.
Is he even considered for the infamous "Grey Area" of Smash character speculation?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There is at least a similitude.
Geno is co-owned by Ninty and Squenix.
While Strider is co-owned between Capcom and Moto Hikaku (a manga group like CLAMP but male)
This ironically makes his chances take a nosedive since his manga was released before the Arcade game.
Is he even considered for the infamous "Grey Area" of Smash character speculation?

I think Strider would probably fall in the Geralt category of only the most pedantic people would object to his inclusion based on his manga origins given his greater fame as a video game character. Though it is amusing to imagine an alternate being featured in his place because of that:







"Wow, is this Strider in Smash?"

"I'm not Strider, I'm my own original character, Run Saber!"

 

[Ivander]

While Strider is co-owned between Capcom and Moto Hikaku (a manga group like CLAMP but male)
This ironically makes his chances take a nosedive since his manga was released before the Arcade game.
Is he even considered for the infamous "Grey Area" of Smash character speculation?

Compared to Geralt who started out as a book character first and foremost before his video game adaption, Strider was a joint plan between Capcom and Moto Hikaku. The Manga and the Video games(both the Arcade and the NES game) were planned and intentioned from the start. The manga did come out first, but the video game was already coming and had done so not long after the manga.
If anything, Strider is more akin to Lucario, who appeared in the anime movie first before his official appearance in Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, but regardless both were planned to appear in a video game before their non-video game appearance happened.

 

[CannonStreak]

There is at least a similitude.
Geno is co-owned by Ninty and Squenix.
While Strider is co-owned between Capcom and Moto Hikaku (a manga group like CLAMP but male)
This ironically makes his chances take a nosedive since his manga was released before the Arcade game.
Is he even considered for the infamous "Grey Area" of Smash character speculation?

Yeah, I was wondering if Strider would even be eligible for Smash Bros. He does seem to be more of a video game character in recent times, key word, seem; but with him debuting in a manga, and him being co-owned by a video game company and a manga company, would he even work as a video game character in that case?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Pretty sure that WayForward will develop a 2-in-1 remake of Dual Strikes and Days of Ruin.

And then release them in Japan as a collection.

Does MyNintendo has Games as rewards like the old Club Nintendo? Just to make a joke that this hypothetical collection being rewarded only in Japan.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Compared to Geralt who started out as a book character first and foremost before his video game adaption, Strider was a joint plan between Capcom and Moto Hikaku. The Manga and the Video games(both the Arcade and the NES game) were planned and intentioned from the start. The manga did come out first, but the video game was already coming and had done so not long after the manga.
If anything, Strider is more akin to Lucario, who appeared in the anime movie first before his official appearance in Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, but regardless both were planned to appear in a video game before their non-video game appearance happened.

Sorry for double posting. But is Ho-Oh a non-video game character since it appeared on the first episode of the Pokémon anime? Is Blaziken a non-video game character because it appeared during the Johto League arc? Are Zorua and Zoroark non-video game characters because they appeared on a Diamond and Pearl Movie?

 

[CannonStreak]

Sorry for double posting. But is Ho-Oh a non-video game character since it appeared on the first episode? Is Blaziken a non-video game character because it appeared during the Johto League arc? Is Zorua and Zoroark non-video game characters because they appeared on a Diamond and Pearl Movie?

Hmmmm, those were intended to be video game characters after all. Now, I am wondering; can we apply the being-intended-as-video-game-characters thing to Strider, and will that be enough to make him eligible for a Smash game?

 

[Ivander]

Pretty sure that WayForward will develop a 2-in-1 remake of Dual Strikes and Days of Ruin.

And then release them in Japan as a collection.

Does MyNintendo has Games as rewards like the old Club Nintendo? Just to make a joke that this hypothetical collection being rewarded only in Japan.

Considering the first two games and Dual Strike take place in the same continuity, shouldn't it make more sense for Dual Strike to be a DLC or Expansion for Reboot Camp? Also, it's probably better to find a standing ground for Advance Wars after Reboot Camp if that does do good.

Sorry for double posting. But is Ho-Oh a non-video game character since it appeared on the first episode of the Pokémon anime? Is Blaziken a non-video game character because it appeared during the Johto League arc? Is Zorua and Zoroark non-video game characters because they appeared on a Diamond and Pearl Movie?

Depends. If they were never planned to appear in the games, sure. If they were planned to appear in the game from before they happened in their anime appearance, than no.

Hmmmm, those were intended to be video game characters after all. Now, I am wondering; can we apply the being-intended-as-video-game-characters thing to Strider, and will that be enough to make him eligible for a Smash game?

Yes, we can apply it to Strider as both his manga and video game were a joint collab by Capcom and Hikaku. The video game was planned and created at the same time as the manga. The manga just happened to come out first. And considering Strider had kept up his video game appearances over his manga appearances, I think that's enough to solidify him in the video game character category.

 

[CannonStreak]

Considering the first two games and Dual Strike take place in the same continuity, shouldn't it make more sense for Dual Strike to be a DLC or Expansion for Reboot Camp? Also, it's probably better to find a standing ground for Advance Wars after Reboot Camp if that does do good.

Depends. If they were never planned to appear in the games, sure. If they were planned to appear in the game from before they happened in their anime appearance, than no.

Yes, we can apply it to Strider as both his manga and video game were a joint collab by Capcom and Hikaku. The video game was planned and created at the same time as the manga. The manga just happened to come out first.

Makes too much sense to not go with. Looks like he is eligible.

Now, all that is left are his chances of getting in a Smash Bros. game, which may be another story here.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Depends. If they were never planned to appear in the games, sure. If they were planned to appear in the game from before they happened in their anime appearance, than no.

From what i remember, the Alexa's arc from Black & White aired when X and Y were released.
It's like if Sonic Forces Speed Battle had Sage despite the game's title.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Makes too much sense to not go with. Looks like he is eligible.

Now, all that is left are his chances of getting in a Smash Bros. game, which may be another story here.

Well, he's a third party ninja character, so that already puts him at a disadvantage since Ryu Hayabusa exists...

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, he's a third party ninja character, so that already puts him at a disadvantage since Ryu Hayabusa exists...

Yeah, honestly...

I want Ryu Hayabusa more than Strider.