Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

what about the ds remake?

That did have some elements of the original (see Tiptup) but the removal of Banjo and Conker suggests Microsoft had their limits on what they'd allow, even for a game on a handheld system they weren't competing with.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Diddy Racing DS missed the opportunity to bring back Kiddy Kong
At least don't give him a ear-piercing cry.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Diddy Racing DS missed the opportunity to bring back Kiddy Kong
At least don't give him a ear-piercing cry.

Given that Kiddy's never made an appearance since Donkey Kong Country 3 (not counting the GBA remake) and with Smash Bros cameos being the closest he's gotten, I'm left to wonder if some combination of Rare/Nintendo/Retro just aren't terribly fond of him. Even Lanky Kong managed a playable appearance in Barrel Blast after all.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Given that Kiddy's never made an appearance since Donkey Kong Country 3 (not counting the GBA remake) and with Smash Bros cameos being the closest he's gotten, I'm left to wonder if some combination of Rare/Nintendo/Retro just aren't terribly fond of him. Even Lanky Kong managed a playable appearance in Barrel Blast after all.

Chunky Kong: "Am I a joke to you?"

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Chunky Kong: "Am I a joke to you?"

Hilariously enough, Chunky last popped up in a cameo for the GBA version of DKC3 making that now the last appearance of both characters. Just speculation, but I suspect they might just be seen as redundant. DK himself already is the big, strong, powerful Kong and having the other to also play the role really isn't necessary. Between that, the dearth of Donkey Kong spin-offs, and Nintendo's lack of interest in utilizing DKC elements for their own spin-off titles, its not really a surprise neither ever showed up again.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Given that Kiddy's never made an appearance since Donkey Kong Country 3 (not counting the GBA remake) and with Smash Bros cameos being the closest he's gotten, I'm left to wonder if some combination of Rare/Nintendo/Retro just aren't terribly fond of him. Even Lanky Kong managed a playable appearance in Barrel Blast after all.

At least he's getting a cameo in the Mario movie...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hope Diddy kong racing is one of those games that gets put on NSO, i would think about upgrading if so.

 

[smashkirby]

Were we talking about stages? Always a fun time when people remember Smash Bros isn't just a picture of the roster!

A few of my own ideas/wants:

-Mario Party, it would be like Isle Delfino crossed with Wario Ware as you fly around various maps with mini-games popping up
-Mario Clash, a two-layer stage in red and black
-Training, an autoscroller with Doc Louis chasing you down the street
-Sprout Tower, it would have a gimmick where the stage kinda sways back-and-forth while you fight
-Chemical Plant Zone, IDK I just think it'd work
-Rhythm Concert, A rhythm heaven stage where the hazards change depending on the music playing
-Pokemon Stadium 3, I think there's enough new stuff since Brawl to make it happen
-FlatZone 3, with four new Game and Watch games
-Gyromite, with the pillars and enemies as stage hazards

We talking about stages? Personally, I'd love to see a Cruis'n stage that serves as a mix of Big Blue and Mute City (SNES), where the cars you fight on occasionally get destroyed during the race, forcing you to hop onto another vehicle. Also, the vehicles getting damaged would damage YOU as well, and maybe the stage could pull a 'Minecraft World' and randomly have you fight on any of the 5 tracks of Cruis'n Blast.

Yeah that reminds me. Poor R.O.B. is the only one in the roster with no real home stage. He gets Wrecking Crew of all things. Been a veteran since Brawl and he's never gotten a stage.

I honestly feel like 75m could have been re-skinned to resemble a Gyromite stage, and there you go, R.O.B. has a stage.

I'm not all too familiar with KoroKoro or Chalien, are they related in some way?

Anyway I'll be honest, I can live without another one of these. Ult made such significant strides in this regard that while there are still a few IP left that are IMO interesting enough to pull from, I just feel like another one of these wouldn't be nearly as fun now that so many of the big missing ones are in

I think I read somewhere that KoroKoro and Chalien deal with a Baten Kaitos-type situation where Nintendo published a game or two, but the rest of the series isn't exactly owned by Nintendo themselves, resulting in Li'l Blue being an interesting legal situation, like B-K's Sagi and Milly.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

If I had a dollar for every time someone said we should have a Tetris stage, I would have enough money to convince Nintendo to finally go after putting Tetris in Smash.

Honestly its just one of the coolest ideas that has not been tackled yet. I thought after Tetris 99 they would have looked into it.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If I had a dollar for every time someone said we should have a Tetris stage, I would have enough money to convince Nintendo to finally go after putting Tetris in Smash.

Honestly its just one of the coolest ideas that has not been tackled yet. I thought after Tetris 99 they would have looked into it.

Just add Puyo Puyo and you have a crossover stage.
Not like PSASBR, but a grateful novelty

 

[Speed Weed]

I think I read somewhere that KoroKoro and Chalien deal with a Baten Kaitos-type situation where Nintendo published a game or two, but the rest of the series isn't exactly owned by Nintendo themselves, resulting in Li'l Blue being an interesting legal situation, like B-K's Sagi and Milly.

I believe Chalien's a Baten Kaitos/SimCity-style situation yeah, although I read somewhere that they outright acquired the IP. I'm pretty sure KoroKoro was developed internally at Nintendo though

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

So a couple days ago, I was looking into some older Smash stuff, and I came across this old Source Gaming article:

An overview of ALL Nintendo IP NOT in Super Smash Bros

Super Smash Bros is a series that brings together a ton of Nintendo’s IP into one massive series. Unfortunatley there are just too many IP for them all to get some representation. So, in part…

sourcegaming.info

This is a list of Nintendo IP not in Smash, and it's from the Smash 4 era. It's fascinating to look back on this after Ultimate went ridiculously hard on Nintendo history for its spirit selection.

The IP listed here are shown in various categories that try to explain why they may not be in. Some are from the earrrrrrly days of Nintendo, some are kind of western-centric, some are kind of simple and thus wouldn't have much to pull from, and some he thinks are just plain obscure enough to not get a look. But after all that, there's an "I have no clue" section, for IP that he thinks by all rights made perfect sense for Smash representation but missed the cut.

Out of those 14 big missing IP? 11 made it to Ultimate, leaving only 3 still on the outside looking in: Pro Wrestling, Endless Ocean and KoroKoro Puzzle. Not only that, but 11 more IP in the "probably too obscure" section made it, and we even got one from the Western section (Eternal Darkness), and there's at least one IP Ultimate included that this list outright missed (Saru Band). It's fascinating, and it really goes to show how cool it is that Ultimate went so deep on the Nintendo history well. Seeing so many IP come back that were in Melee and Brawl but not 4, plus finally seeing notable games like Eternal Darkness, Marvelous and GiFTPiA get the Smash nod, is really nice. Cool ****.

Startropics being ignored completely in Ultimate still breaks my heart, even to the point where they didn't give it any spirits. It's such a fun game on the NES and I feel the series deserves at least a little representation, Mike Jones as a fighter is wishful thinking but having him as an assist trophy would be really cool

 

[HyperSomari64]

Startropics being ignored completely in Ultimate still breaks my heart, even to the point where they didn't give it any spirits. It's such a fun game on the NES and I feel the series deserves at least a little representation, Mike Jones as a fighter is wishful thinking but having him as an assist trophy would be really cool

"His game wasn't released in Japan" is not a valid reason, since the Elite Beat Agents got a Trophy in Brawl before the Osu! sequel included them as skins. Or the American Classic Sonic sticker in Brawl too.

 

[chocolatejr9]

"His game wasn't released in Japan" is not a valid reason, since the Elite Beat Agents got a Trophy in Brawl before the Osu! sequel included them as skins. Or the American Classic Sonic sticker in Brawl too.

TBF, EBA is literally just an Osu game with an American reskin. The Agents even appeared in Osu's sequal.

 

[CannonStreak]

I have a question. It is kinda about Geno, but it is more about Super Mario RPG.

Yeah, Geno had a lot of fans, or so it may seem. There were plenty of people who thought he was getting in Ultimate. But there were factors as to why he could not get in. That said, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was not released in Europe at the time. More importantly is the question I wish to bring up:

Wasn't Super Mario RPG released during the end of the days of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System?

I am asking because I am curious how this makes characters like that game such as Geno more obscure. Also, I would also like to learn how released being near the end of the SNES' lifespan makes it more obscure, the game itself, that is.

Sorry for bringing up Geno and the Mario RPG game, for I am just curious to know, and maybe how it affects the chances of characters from that game of getting into Smash (aside from being third party and other reasons). That is all. I hope it does not hurt to ask all this.

 

[Speed Weed]

"His game wasn't released in Japan" is not a valid reason, since the Elite Beat Agents got a Trophy in Brawl before the Osu! sequel included them as skins. Or the American Classic Sonic sticker in Brawl too.

These examples have nothing to do with ST's situation. The EBA and American Classic Sonic are still really just a Western extension of IP that still very much exist in Japan. StarTropics is an entire IP with absolutely zero Japanese presence

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From what I read, the crew, not Sakurai, decided the general Spirits. So some random people simply either never heard of Startropics or chose not to. Big series like Frogger is unmentioned too(though that having a Spirit means they have to pay Konami more. That could've been something that never went through in comparison). But moreso, some will be missed as sometimes people just don't think of things. Startropics wasn't that known in Japan from what I remember.

That's not saying it shouldn't be in. It absolutely should~

 

[chocolatejr9]

From what I read, the crew, not Sakurai, decided the general Spirits. So some random people simply either never heard of Startropics or chose not to. Big series like Frogger is unmentioned too(though that having a Spirit means they have to pay Konami more. That could've been something that never went through in comparison). But moreso, some will be missed as sometimes people just don't think of things. Startropics wasn't that known in Japan from what I remember.

That's not saying it shouldn't be in. It absolutely should~

The only hope I have for StarTropics is if that one rumor that Next Level Games was working on a new entry turns out to be true. But that rumor was from WAY back, and I don't even remember the full details of that rumor (something about honoring one of the people who worked on it?)...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only hope I have for StarTropics is if that one rumor that Next Level Games was working on a new entry turns out to be true. But that rumor was from WAY back, and I don't even remember the full details of that rumor (something about honoring one of the people who worked on it?)...

Please don't be a Star Fox Grand Prix situation...

 

[HyperSomari64]

If i remember correctly, because of the Pixar Lawsuit with DMA Design, the Japanese release of UniRacers was cancelled.

 

[MrMcNuts]

On the topic of stages, add Kung Foot when Rayman gets in

I think that would be fun in smash

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There is a decent chance that, even had Ganondorf made it in to Melee as a unique character, he probably wouldn’t have had a projectile. Donkey Kong doesn’t have a projectile despite being best known for throwing barrels, Ike doesn’t have his blade beams from his home games and Bowser doesn’t use his iconic fireball projectile instead having his Fire Breath (which acts more like an extended jab than a conventional projectile) based off Super Mario 64. Not anything particularly important, just though it was something interesting to ponder on.

-Training, an autoscroller with Doc Louis chasing you down the street

That would be pretty amusing.

As far as stages, I just want a stage from Shadow Dragon or Mystery of the Emblem. Marth has been in every game since Melee and was even planned for 64, but he's never had a stage from his actual games (made even more apparent when he was meant to get one in Melee).

It's not even like the Archanea games are lacking stage options either. Altea Castle, Galder Harbor, the Millennium Palace, the Macedonian Aerie, Chiasmir Bridge, the Fane of Raman, Anri's Way (as a traveling stage covering the Mamorthod Desert, the Flame Barrel, and the Ice Dragon Temple), Khadein, and the Tower of Thabes are all more than viable options. Any of them would be so much better than just defaulting to the non-descript and generic Castle Siege.

At the very least, they could visually redesign Castle Siege to more closely reference Marth’s game.

Hilariously enough, Chunky last popped up in a cameo for the GBA version of DKC3 making that now the last appearance of both characters. Just speculation, but I suspect they might just be seen as redundant. DK himself already is the big, strong, powerful Kong and having the other to also play the role really isn't necessary. Between that, the dearth of Donkey Kong spin-offs, and Nintendo's lack of interest in utilizing DKC elements for their own spin-off titles, its not really a surprise neither ever showed up again.

We literally have two Donkey Kong games in the last 12 years. That’s really bizarre.

 

[fogbadge]

I have a question. It is kinda about Geno, but it is more about Super Mario RPG.

Yeah, Geno had a lot of fans, or so it may seem. There were plenty of people who thought he was getting in Ultimate. But there were factors as to why he could not get in. That said, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was not released in Europe at the time. More importantly is the question I wish to bring up:

Wasn't Super Mario RPG released during the end of the days of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System?

I am asking because I am curious how this makes characters like that game such as Geno more obscure. Also, I would also like to learn how released being near the end of the SNES' lifespan makes it more obscure, the game itself, that is.

Sorry for bringing up Geno and the Mario RPG game, for I am just curious to know, and maybe how it affects the chances of characters from that game of getting into Smash (aside from being third party and other reasons). That is all. I hope it does not hurt to ask all this.

we got smrpg on the wii it was over here by ultimates time. did you mean brawl?

 

[CannonStreak]

we got smrpg on the wii it was over here by ultimates time. did you mean brawl?

Yeah, I know, but I just want to know if it was initially released biting the end of the days of the SNES.

 

[Lenidem]

There is a decent chance that, even had Ganondorf made it in to Melee as a unique character, he probably wouldn’t have had a projectile. Donkey Kong doesn’t have a projectile despite being best known for throwing barrels, Ike doesn’t have his blade beams from his home games and Bowser doesn’t use his iconic fireball projectile instead having his Fire Breath (which acts more like an extended jab than a conventional projectile) based off Super Mario 64. Not anything particularly important, just though it was something interesting to ponder on.


That would be pretty amusing.



At the very least, they could visually redesign Castle Siege to more closely reference Marth’s game.



We literally have two Donkey Kong games in the last 12 years. That’s really bizarre.

I don't think so. Smash Donkey Kong is clearly based on DK Country, where barrels are merely and item, not an important part of the moveset, and not even exclusive to DK. Most importantly, I'm pretty sure a non-clone Ganondorf in Melee would have been based on Ocarina's fight - what else? So he would have been lighter, maybe even floaty, ala Mewtwo, and with Peach's flying ability. He would have been totally different.

We will never know, of course.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I know, but I just want to know if it was initially released biting the end of the days of the SNES.

yes it came out same year as the n64 in fact

 

[Diddy Kong]

Given that Kiddy's never made an appearance since Donkey Kong Country 3 (not counting the GBA remake) and with Smash Bros cameos being the closest he's gotten, I'm left to wonder if some combination of Rare/Nintendo/Retro just aren't terribly fond of him. Even Lanky Kong managed a playable appearance in Barrel Blast after all.

It's noted Kiddy Kong is gonna make an appearance in the Mario movie however. Seems he was spotted in the Mario Kart scene next to Funky.

Also it's an unpopular opinion here but I highly do expect the next newcomers from Fire Emblem and Xenoblade to be their latest protagonists, because the latest games Engage and XBC3 are important and significant in their own ways. Engage is a celebration of Fire Emblem basically, and a return to something more basic (I highly expect most coming games are gonna be FE Echoes styled remakes), and Xenoblade 3 is a culmination of a story told in the two games prior. I do therefore think Alear and Noah are next to inevitable for Smash newcomers.

 

[Opossum]

Personally I'm not as confident in Alear making it in, mostly because Fire Emblem releases a new game every two years consistently (Engage took three and a half, yes, but both leaks and internal data suggest it was meant to be released in 2021 but got delayed for pandemic related reasons).

And that's kind of the issue, because I don't see the next Smash game coming until 2026 at the earliest, and more likely 2027.

 

[fogbadge]

Personally I'm not as confident in Alear making it in, mostly because Fire Emblem releases a new game every two years consistently (Engage took three and a half, yes, but both leaks and internal data suggest it was meant to be released in 2021 but got delayed for pandemic related reasons).

And that's kind of the issue, because I don't see the next Smash game coming until 2026 at the earliest, and more likely 2027.

i agree i do feel there's likely to be another FE before the next smash. it really feels like we're in the "miss the boat" time period

 

[CannonStreak]

yes it came out same year as the n64 in fact

Sorry for the late reply, but yeah; with that in mind, I can't imagine any character made for that game being in Smash easily due to the game being released at the end of the SNES' lifespan being at least one of the reasons as to why. I think some people gave characters from that game like Geno too much credit in terms of possibly getting into Smash.

i agree i do feel there's likely to be another FE before the next smash. it really feels like we're in the "miss the boat" time period

Yeah, sadly, that may be the case. I would have liked Alear to be playable in a Smash game, let alone the next one.

 

[Sucumbio]

The longest we went without a new smash game was between melee and Brawl with 7 years, I think 9 years is pushing it. I feel the next system drops next year and smash in 25 at the latest. I wouldn't be surprised if preliminary planning isn't already happening.

 

[Opossum]

The way I see it, I really don't think we'll get the Switch's successor until late 2025, and considering Smash games usually happen in a console's second year, that's why I think 2027 is the time frame we'd be looking at. Maybe 2026 depending on when in 2025 we get said successor.

 

[Sucumbio]

The way I see it, I really don't think we'll get the Switch's successor until late 2025, and considering Smash games usually happen in a console's second year, that's why I think 2027 is the time frame we'd be looking at. Maybe 2026 depending on when in 2025 we get said successor.

I definitely agree nowadays smash typically hits after a year or so from console release. My biggest concern is Nintendo waiting another year past this year before even releasing their next console...

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh, I forgot to say this: Would wanting any obscure character, especially from a third party company like Geno not be the same as wanting someone more well known such as Cloud Strife and Sephiroth? I am asking because sure, there are many who looked Geno up on Youtube and found him cool, but is watching the character on an online video the same as having a gameplay attachment to the character in general? Without playing as the character in the one or few games they appeared in, I can't see people having much attachment in playing as the character if they were to appear in a Smash game as a playable compared to watching him in action.

On top of that, would watching an obscure character like Geno on the internet without playing the game they were from, which was obscure, be the same as others wanting a character like Cloud and Sephiroth; who had more appeal and more people could have more attachment to both by watching them on the internet or in the game and gameplay wise? I can imagine more people played games like Final Fantasy VII compared to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. I don't think people would be attached to those like Geno compared to Cloud and Sephiroth without playing the obscure game those like Geno were in, if you know what I mean. and Cloud and Sephiroth are more accessible to people and more popular, and more played as then Geno, or any obscure character was in the obscure game they appeared in.

Sorry for bringing this up, I just needed to get this off my chest.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh, I forgot to say this: Would wanting any obscure character, especially from a third party company like Geno not be the same as wanting someone more well known such as Cloud Strife and Sephiroth? I am asking because sure, there are many who looked Geno up on Youtube and found him cool, but is watching the character on an online video the same as having a gameplay attachment to the character in general? Without playing as the character in the one or few games they appeared in, I can't see people having much attachment in playing as the character if they were to appear in a Smash game as a playable compared to watching him in action.

On top of that, would watching an obscure character like Geno on the internet without playing the game they were from, which was obscure, be the same as others wanting a character like Cloud and Sephiroth; who had more appeal and more people could have more attachment to both by watching them on the internet or in the game and gameplay wise? I can imagine more people played games like Final Fantasy VII compared to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. I don't think people would be attached to those like Geno compared to Cloud and Sephiroth without playing the obscure game those like Geno were in, if you know what I mean. and Cloud and Sephiroth are more accessible to people and more popular, and more played as then Geno, or any obscure character was in the obscure game they appeared in.

Sorry for bringing this up, I just needed to get this off my chest.

Well emulation exists so anyone who would want to enjoy an old obscure game can do it if they like the character in smash enough.

That's the entire reason the Mother series is popular.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well emulation exists so anyone who would want to enjoy an old obscure game can do it if they like the character in smash enough.

That's the entire reason the Mother series is popular.

Huh? Oh yeah, there is that. I forgot.

Though NOT to stretch things any bit, but I still don't think Geno's popularity is anything like Cloud's or Sephiroth's. The latter two have been in more games, and there is something about the latter two's appeal and popularity that Geno does not have. I mean he came from a game released many years ago, at the end of the lifespan of the system his game was on. Even then, I do not think Geno's popularity had the same effect as it may have by the time his game came out all those years ago.

Not to pick on Geno fans, for I played Super Mario RPG, but I don't think Geno is in the same kind of hype level and familiarity as Cloud, Sephiroth or many other characters for that matter.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Simply put, Geno would be a fun addition to Smash, but his unorthodox origins and that there are simply far more popular Square Enix characters out there makes his potential inclusion very much dependent on a specific conditions and/or someone in Nintendo and/or SE pushing for him. And I say that as a fan that's gushed about him character threads.

Odd comparison, but he's like a Strider Hiryu; a character with loads of fighter potential with the bad fortune of belonging to a company rich in popular/iconic characters that are largely ahead of him in numerous ways.

 

[NintenZ]

I'm personally not confident in Alear because I don't really see the potential in their moveset.

I played all of Engage just recently, don't get me wrong I really like them as a character but their moves are fairly limited even when using Emblems.

They could ideally take creative liberties with their moveset, add different moves that they don't use in their game and have it that they change to different forms ignoring the three turn limit, but I'm just not sold personally.

That and the fact that Sakurai previously dropped the idea of Rex with Pyra in the background cause he didn't want to upset fans and the whole concept of Emblems is that it's previous characters from different Fire Emblem games, Alear's default Emblem is Marth too and considering Smash has a bias for using character's default kits (Such as Joker just using Arsene instead of other Personas) I'm not sure how that would work.

Don't take this as me ****ting on Alear btw that's not my intention I love them as a character and I would be really happy if they somehow managed to make them work I just don't know if they will.

 

[CannonStreak]

Simply put, Geno would be a fun addition to Smash, but his unorthodox origins and that there are simply far more popular Square Enix characters out there makes his potential inclusion very much dependent on a specific conditions and/or someone in Nintendo and/or SE pushing for him. And I say that as a fan that's gushed about him character threads.

Odd comparison, but he's like a Strider Hiryu; a character with loads of fighter potential with the bad fortune of belonging to a company rich in popular/iconic characters that are largely ahead of him in numerous ways.

Well, at least Strider has been in more games, including recent ones, if some of them aren't of his own like the Marvel vs. Capcom games. Still, I don't think you are wrong about Strider either way.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, at least Strider has been in more games, including recent ones, if some of them aren't of his own like the Marvel vs. Capcom games. Still, I don't think you are wrong about Strider either way.

And the fact his series might be set in the Street Fighter universe, though last time I checked that wasn't exactly certain...