Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[WeirdChillFever]

I mostly root for characters that appeal to me. A lot of the time, those characters just happen to be villains. I’ve always really liked darker characters and just found them cool. It’s not really a case of wanting villains just for the sake of having villains, although there is an appeal to that as well.

I don’t know how many other people are like me but I just love having matches against the AI pitting heroes against villains. It just like that the characters have someone to fight against. This likely doesn’t matter much for anyone who is more focused on the competitive aspect of Smash but I’ve always been on the strictly casual side of things so stuff like that matters to me more than most people.

Plus, the darker side of villains also brings out their personality in their movesets. Sepiroth’s demigod boss set wouldn’t work without the intimidation factor he has as a villain, Ridley goes all in on his brutality and K. Rool’s moveset is a rival spoof of DKs at times to drive home his pettiness. Visual distinction definitely plays a role in movesetting so it’s never a black-and-white split between “moveset potential vs the rest”

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I mostly root for characters that appeal to me. A lot of the time, those characters just happen to be villains. There’s just a certain style of character I tend to gravitate towards. I’ve always really liked darker or “edgy” characters and just found them cool. It’s not really a case of wanting villains just for the sake of having villains, although there is an appeal to that as well.

I don’t know how many other people are like me but I just love having matches against the AI pitting heroes against villains. It just like that the characters have someone to fight against. This likely doesn’t matter much for anyone who is more focused on the competitive aspect of Smash but I’ve always been on the strictly casual side of things so stuff like that matters to me more than most people.

Same. Villains give the series a unique flair of their own that other characters can't replicate. Even Small ones like Piranha Plant have it

Also doing Heroes vs Villains in Smash Bros is something I'm gulity of too recently. It's really fun especially adding Sora to the mix

If you want to try do:

Squad Strike
Stage Morph every minute, you can lower knock back if you want.

One side heroes such as Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, Sora. Another side Bowser, Ganon, Ridley, Mewtwo and Sephiroth

Both Stages should be Battlefield and Final Destination respectively.

Choose Galeem/Dharkon track for both stages

Have fun with it.

Creating Scenarios in Smash is become now my favorite thing to do now.

As well as beating WoL for the second time ofc.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hey!
Remember that DarthEnderX said that King Hippo is Smash 6 Nintendo Villain Rep?

I do!

 

[Gengar84]

Plus, the darker side of villains also brings out their personality in their movesets. Sepiroth’s demigod boss set wouldn’t work without the intimidation factor he has as a villain, Ridley goes all in on his brutality and K. Rool’s moveset is a rival spoof of DKs at times to drive home his pettiness. Visual distinction definitely plays a role in movesetting so it’s never a black-and-white split between “moveset potential vs the rest”

Yeah, that’s a great point. I think who the character is and their personality does play a big part in their moveset a lot of the time, especially with animations like taunts, final smashes, and victory screens. I do totally understand the viewpoint in caring mostly about gameplay. If you lean more towards the competitive side, you will probably have much different priorities than someone like me who mostly plays Smash to mess around and have fun but never really cared too much about being the best.

 

[CannonStreak]

If you want to talk about Politics, you are free to do so. Just like others are free to not talk about it as well. It's not like most political discussions actually lead to any productive or constructive. It just leads to potshots and mugsling and not everyone wants to deal such toxicity with that day to day especially when it comes to hobbies and entertainment that used to escape such things as well other things in life. Escapism as you will. It's not surprising why people try to avoid it as much as possible.

I just asked the question as, these few pages has shown, it's an interesting topic but not a topic that should go on and on. It's still a Smash Speculation thread after all



Isn't Mortal Kombat illegal in Japan? I doubt Smash Bros would be able to be published if that was the case

If so, that is why I said "How Mortal Kombat is viewed in Japan".

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I do!

And you know that King Hippo could be a Boss character.
Since we never had a Punch-out Boss and we could want it.

 

[Opossum]

Look, all I'm saying is that if you think wanting a character because they're a villain is perfectly fine but also think that wanting a character because they're LGBT+ or a Person of Color is somehow "pushing an agenda" or requires more scrutiny, you really need to re-examine yourself.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think my top choice for a Resident Evil character is Nemesis but Wesker would be cool too. I imagine he’d probably have zombies in his moveset somewhere. I just like the idea of more nonhuman representation.

This my favorite boss battle.

 

[Wonder Smash]

-Injustice in Japan did not have much good sales at all I believe. Netherrealm games don't do too hot there

How well did it do in Japan?

Isn't Mortal Kombat illegal in Japan? I doubt Smash Bros would be able to be published if that was the case

It's just simply a character in this case. It certainly doesn't stop Smash itself from being published, otherwise, Injustice wouldn't have been released there.

 

[slrigeigdew]

I hope that atleast everyone agrees that we need more Villan Representtion!
Stuff we need villainwise (from Nintendo):
Bowsers Castle (although if we could stop Mushroom kingdom U and paper mario on the castle segments that would maybe suffice!)

It is absolutely crazy to me that we have two Princess Peach castle stages and multiple Yoshi island stages but not a single stage dedicated to Bowser castle. Mario Kart has like 8 tracks just based on Bowser Castle lmao

 

[Gengar84]

It is absolutely crazy to me that we have two Princess Peach castle stages and multiple Yoshi island stages but not a single stage dedicated to Bowser castle. Mario Kart has like 8 tracks just based on Bowser Castle lmao

Yeah that does really suck. I think Smash is so focused on just representing the starting area of too many games that we end up missing out on great stages like Bowser’s castle or any DKC stage other than a generic jungle setting.

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah that does really suck. I think Smash is so focused on just representing the starting area of too many games that we end up missing out on great stages like Bowser’s castle or any DKC stage other than a generic jungle setting.

Zelda too like Forsaken Fortress would've been awesome and with stage hazards you could get random appearances of Miniblin... hoards.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Look, all I'm saying is that if you think wanting a character because they're a villain is perfectly fine but also think that wanting a character because they're LGBT+ or a Person of Color is somehow "pushing an agenda" or requires more scrutiny, you really need to re-examine yourself.

Poor comparison.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting a character for any reason. Most people just want something they can identify with, whether that’s just taste in characters like a cool villain like Sephiroth or someone that shares some trait like gender, race, sexual orientation or something else. My view is that as long as you’re not putting anyone down for wanting something they like, there should be no issue. I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with that.

 

[Sucumbio]

SMTV looks like fun I would be down for a character in the next Smash.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I see no issue with wanting a character because they're a PoC or LGBT+. Representation is important, but I also get why the Smash cast is a little lacking in those areas. It's only recently that we've seen more and more characters fit those descriptions, while in the past, they were rare.

 

[dream1ng]

I won't speak for other people, but I identify with a little electric rat or an ape wearing a tie more than countless humans from countless series I've not played, some of whom even sort of look like me, because they speak to my history of gaming, whereas characters I've no experience with don't.

That's the reason people are so passionate about which characters get in, far in excess of series with original but more racially diverse casts. And I use the proviso of "racially" because the Smash cast is incredibly diverse, just not in every sense of the word. In Smash you can have a giant penguin with a hammer fighting a little elf boy fighting a wrestling fire tiger fighting a dimensionally-challenged cartoon person. Can't do that in Street Fighter.

To each their own, but there have always been so many more important factors in whether I enjoy a game than if the character I'm playing as resembles me.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I see no issue with wanting a character because they're a PoC or LGBT+. Representation is important, but I also get why the Smash cast is a little lacking in those areas. It's only recently that we've seen more and more characters fit those descriptions, while in the past, they were rare.

It's not important to Smash and people shouldn't try to make it important to Smash.

 

[Oracle Link]

I won't speak for other people, but I identify with a little electric rat or an ape wearing a tie more than countless humans from countless series I've not played, some of whom even sort of look like me, because they speak to my history of gaming, whereas characters I've no experience with don't.

That's the reason people are so passionate about which characters get in, far in excess of series with original but more racially diverse casts. And I use the proviso of "racially" because the Smash cast is incredibly diverse, just not in every sense of the word. In Smash you can have a giant penguin with a hammer fighting a little elf boy fighting a wrestling fire tiger fighting a dimensionally-challenged cartoon person. Can't do that in Street Fighter.

To each their own, but there have always been so many more important factors in whether I enjoy a game than if the character I'm playing as resembles me.

Yeah i mean i prefer link blond instead of my haircolor (which is a dark Brown)!
And heck eventho im an adult i prefer (most of the time) the kid version over the Adult one (cus adorable)!

 

[Idon]

SMTV.

Smash 6.

I believe.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Why thus thread is less popular than the DLC speculation one?

 

[Wonder Smash]

SMTV looks like fun I would be down for a character in the next Smash.

Even though I never played any of the SMT games, I prefer a main character from that series in Smash over a Persona character.

If only SMTV was released first before Persona 5.

 

[Sucumbio]

Why thus thread is less popular than the DLC speculation one?

DLC Speculation is over and some ppl needed a break and this is a good time (between speculation cycles) for that. But I'm happy to stick around for a full cycle just to see how infuriating it is and if my sanity meter takes a hit or two or alllllll goooooone.

(what I like to listen to while reading)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why thus thread is less popular than the DLC speculation one?

1. Harder to find.
2. Smash 5 is over.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

DLC Speculation is over and some ppl needed a break and this is a good time (between speculation cycles) for that. But I'm happy to stick around for a full cycle just to see how infuriating it is and if my sanity meter takes a hit or two or alllllll goooooone.

(what I like to listen to while reading)

Umm, excuse me.
They will Comeback when Smash 6 is getting announced,

 

[Trevenant]

Just was thinking about this but like, how do people like Samushunter find the time every single day on Twitter to just post random BS they spin as leaks lol.. They don't use these accounts as personal accounts, and dedicate them to the, frankly very niche topic of Nintendo leaks lol. They don't even try, like having a literal collage of all the crap you got right just to try and convince people you're legit is arrogant and only shows all the easy guesses that you made in one place which you're trying to pass off as a leak or proof of legitimacy.

Real leakers don't even get info that often, and they rarely post anything outside of leaks to begin with, so being inactive would at least somewhat push the agenda that samushunter wants people to believe, yet doesn't do it and continues going around in circles without stopping and at least trying to do a getter job. It's pretty obvious why they probably do it, but how the hell do they find the time when there is absolutely no pay off in such a ridiculously niche topic lol? Especially more so if they're a grown person lol. It's ridiculous and an enigma at it's best. There isn't even gonna be much personal pay-off lol so just why

 

[Dan Quixote]

Why thus thread is less popular than the DLC speculation one?

Hard to care as much about a game that doesn't exist as one that does.

 

[Sucumbio]

Umm, excuse me.
They will Comeback when Smash 6 is getting announced,

Agreed. I hope N3ON does at any rate

 

[Yamat08]

It is absolutely crazy to me that we have two Princess Peach castle stages and multiple Yoshi island stages but not a single stage dedicated to Bowser castle. Mario Kart has like 8 tracks just based on Bowser Castle lmao

Yeah that does really suck. I think Smash is so focused on just representing the starting area of too many games that we end up missing out on great stages like Bowser’s castle or any DKC stage other than a generic jungle setting.

Looking back on it, the way we ended up with what seem like duplicate (at least in concept) stages is pretty screwed up. Melee introduced Green Greens and Yoshi's Story, and yet it included Dream Land and Super Happy Tree as some of the only returning stages anyway (the only other returning stage was Kongo Jungle, and to its credit, it's at least KINDA different from Jungle Japes despite both having stage1 syndrome). And then the Smash4 split gives you the impression that they REALLY dropped the ball. While some stages are shared between both versions, others are different but might as well just be the same thing (Arena Ferox and Coliseum seem like a pretty good example of this, and whereas Smash3DS had Green Hill return, SmashWiiU dropped it in favor of another stage 1 grassy area, Windy Hill..... likewise with Distant Planet and Garden of Hope). Also, WiiU having both Smashville AND Town&City..... just, what the hell?

I won't speak for other people, but I identify with a little electric rat or an ape wearing a tie more than countless humans from countless series I've not played, some of whom even sort of look like me, because they speak to my history of gaming, whereas characters I've no experience with don't.

That's the reason people are so passionate about which characters get in, far in excess of series with original but more racially diverse casts. And I use the proviso of "racially" because the Smash cast is incredibly diverse, just not in every sense of the word. In Smash you can have a giant penguin with a hammer fighting a little elf boy fighting a wrestling fire tiger fighting a dimensionally-challenged cartoon person. Can't do that in Street Fighter.

To each their own, but there have always been so many more important factors in whether I enjoy a game than if the character I'm playing as resembles me.

Exactly. I sometimes wonder if people ever stop to consider that this game has a playable frog and a crocodile, among several others. Hell, Ultimate's announcement opened up with anthropomorphic squids.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is it bad that for a long time I thought Ganondorf had brown skin? I mean... for the longest time I couldn't even tell he had greenish skin. I thought he had the same shade as the other Gerudo.

Maybe I should get my eyes checked.

 

[ForsakenM]

Look, all I'm saying is that if you think wanting a character because they're a villain is perfectly fine but also think that wanting a character because they're LGBT+ or a Person of Color is somehow "pushing an agenda" or requires more scrutiny, you really need to re-examine yourself.

Damn, we can't let this die can we.

Also, wanting a character for being a villain isn't just 'he/she bad, me want them' as it can be much deeper than that. Like, Ganondorf isn't just a evil jerk: he actively believes the royalty of Hyrule is screwed up (and rightfully so in earlier 3D titles) and his people are suffering because of it. Sure, he's power hungry and might be worse overall, but when you listen to Windwaker Ganondorf speak about it you realize that there was at least some noble reasoning behind what he was doing.

Contrast this with wanting Ganondorf just because he's black. How basic is that? Who cares that he is the iconic LoZ villain! Who cares how cool and badass he is! Who cares that he actually has a semi-noble motive and in the timeline where Link rats him out he's imprisoned for a very long time before they try to kill him, so his anger and spite is relatable! HE'S BLACK! THAT'S WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT, OVER ALL OF THAT, RIGHT?!

This is my problem with this line of thinking. It's valuing something so basic and surface-level that it spits in the face of everything the characters actually are. It's acting like that is more important than anything else, which is stupid as hell. Ganondorf could have been any skin color and been just as badass with everything I mentioned above, but he comes from a desert-dwelling people and thus he is black...and that's the least interesting thing about him.

If you have a good character that is well-written, skin color, orientation and gender are things people immediately look past into something deeper than that. This is why characters in fan fiction who's core trait is being homosexual or trans often come off boring, and we can see this in High Guardian Spice right now in fact. If the most important thing about the character is something surface level like that, they are uninteresting, much like people in real life. I have met many people who classify as minorities, and when them being a minority is the most important thing they value, they are incredibly boring and sometimes unfun and even toxic to be around. At the same time, I have friends that I hang out with who fall into minorities, but since that's way less important to them than other things in their life they are incredibly interesting and we can sit down and just talk about whatever and have a good time, with not even anime or games as a medium.

Also, that person who mentioned enjoying Heroes vs Villains already likes something deeper than someone who just wants a character with a minority status. Heroes vs Villains is Good vs Evil, which dives into people's morality and core values, what drives them to save or destroy, and can easily dive into more complicated things like what is truly Good and is the Villain really all that Evil? Wanting a character because of their sexual preference is just that: they are attracted to something in specific, and it doesn't go deeper than that other than perhaps why they are, but these kinds of people rarely care about the 'why' and only that they are they status they want.

Bottom line is this: a video game character being a minority is not a valuable reason for them to get into Smash. Smash has evolved into a celebration of gaming, which is Sakurai's own words, so that is CLEARLY what Smash has become. What about choosing characters just because they are a minority or because their core trait is that they are a minority speaks about the history of gaming? It doesn't. This is true for them being a villain or hero, being smart or dumb, being religious or not...none of that really matters as one individual thing: what matters is the impact that character and their game has had on gaming. Do people love that game and it's series? Do people love that character? Do they want to see them in Smash? Will people buy our game if we add them? Can we make them fun to play?

These are the important questions, not are they a minority. If they so happen to fall into the category AND say yes to all the above questions, then congrats you got what you wanted, but they weren't selected because of that minority status: they were selected because of their impact on the gaming sphere. Frisk could very easily make that happen. Maybe in the future, someone will make a super-successful game that stars a minority character with their entire character is 'I'm a minority!' and the game centering around them being a minority and it rocks the gaming sphere...it's doubtful because people need more than that to find a character or game engaging, but it could happen.

Also I believe you brought up gamer-gate in another post, and frankly you need to go back and do a deep-dive of that because it's not as simple as you think and there was a lot of manipulation and corruption by women in that particular incident. What a ****show that was.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Seems that other question went well so I'm going to ask another for a different topic. One that came to mind from a tweet. Picture this:

Smash Ultimate has ended and all the development teams and resources have moved on to separate. Sakurai himself obviously goes on his break for a 1-2 years.

After that, Nintendo has called him for his next project. You think that this for the next Smash: Smash 6 and you'll be right but here is the twist....

Nintendo has decided that Smash can no longer be a video game franchise.

They have decided on this decision because they have come the conclusion that Ultimate was his magnum opus. Smash's Peak. It's the Smash game that can't be topped and they can't afford to start from bottom again. However....

That's why they have come the conclusion that Smash 6 should actually be cinematic movie on the big screen. Nintendo has gained big success on Mario Movie and other movies like Sonic, Minecraft, Pikachu were successful too and wanted to the replicate the success for their franchise and what other franchise better to start with than the Super Smash Bros series.

Sakurai, as always enthusiastic to work on Smash, agreed and seals the deal with 'tendo. There is a problem however.

Sakurai has never worked on a movie before. So he has come to you as director for this project. Yes, for the first time ever, Sakurai isn't directing Smash but you! He will be taking back seat as producer.

The question is what direction would take this movie in? CGI? Live Action? 2D animation? What would be the plot? What companies would get involved and what characters would take and use from? Be creative with this one.

The inspiration for this and good example is from this tweet btw

https://twitter.com/Wierd_o78033920/status/1458476672240558085?t=Wm-mq4bY8en86PEtccVxeg&s=19

 

[Gengar84]

What I don’t get is why anyone really cares why someone else wants a character. My reasoning for wanting a lot of characters is pretty shallow if I’m being honest. There are many characters I want primarily because I think they look cool. For example, I’ve never played Kid Icarus but I think Medusa would be a fun character in Smash. She’s got an awesome design and I love the darkness/shadow element. I don’t think that makes me wanting her any more wrong than someone who wants a character because they have some expertly written backstory.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Is it bad that for a long time I thought Ganondorf had brown skin? I mean... for the longest time I couldn't even tell he had greenish skin. I thought he had the same shade as the other Gerudo.

Maybe I should get my eyes checked.

Are you serious about his skin being greenish? Because I still don't see that. It looks brown to me.

 

[Will]

Are you serious about his skin being greenish? Because I still don't see that. It looks brown to me.

It honestly becomes a lot clearer once you get into the official artwork for the games.

Ganondorf, being Gerudo, does have brown skin, but with a slight tint of goblin green in it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It honestly becomes a lot clearer once you get into the official artwork for the games.

View attachment 337615

Ganondorf, being Gerudo, does have brown skin, but with a slight tint of goblin green in it.

I really didn't think that was actually his skin color. I thought maybe that was just some light reflection or something.

 

[Gengar84]

Ganondorf’s skin color has always been somewhere between olive green and grayish green to me, depending on the game. I’d say that every incarnation of him has at least some green.

 

[Will]

I really didn't think that was actually his skin color. I thought maybe that was just some light reflection or something.

Even sexydorf has some green on him.

I don't know if there's really a lore reason for him being greenish. Maybe all male Gerudo are like that and Ganondorf's the only one we've ever seen? Maybe it's just to distinguish him as the bad guy? Maybe he's going through multiple organ failures? Maybe one day we'll have an answer.

 

[SPEN18]

I'm more of a gameplay-first kind of person. I get interested in potential newcomers for their moveset potential or uniqueness. The more untapped a niche they can fill as a playable fighter, the better.

Which is why it's always weird for me when speculation starts talking about "representing" ideas. Comes off like people are caring more about the roster than the game itself. Adding more villain characters just for the sake of having them present without bothering to ask how they'd actually stand out in gameplay feels like it misses the point. Same with adding other categories like characters from Western-developed series or first person shooters.

The Smash roster isn't trying to be a "Gaming Hall of Fame"; that's just what a lot of fans have decided it must be. If you want to advocate for a character, argue why they'd stand out next to the other fighters and be compelling to play as, not why they or their role/genre/company "should" be here.

Now, see, I feel like moveset potential and uniqueness can be achieved by almost anyone if you think hard enough, and it is much more difficult to rank/order/compare characters in this respect. Having a good number of "archetypes" or niches as you say in terms of gameplay is important to make an enjoyable game, but as the roster itself shows, you can get to that without really even trying hard at all. Representation absolutely does and should play a role; it would be weird, after all, to have Plant without Mario, no matter how unique Plant is or how bland Mario might be (not saying he's bland, but say he was for the purpose of example), although this example is perhaps a bit extreme.

I think people gravitate towards balancing the representation of different series and considering the "worthiness" of different characters because it just plainly makes sense to give the bigger series/characters with more games and more fans their due. "Hall of Fame" probably isn't the right term, but it is undeniable that representation in Smash can have a significant impact on characters' and series' legacy, notability, and popularity; just look at series like Fire Emblem, Mother, Xenoblade, etc. The very concept of Smash as a crossover all-star fighter makes it gravitate towards recognition and representation. If one series is "overrepresented," then it takes resources away from a series/character with a lot of fans and, in some cases, a limited window of time in which that series/character is relevant before fading into obscurity. Unrepresented or underrepresented characters can miss their chance, maybe, who knows, forever. And while the representation probably won't ever be completely "fair" (which is why many simply give up on caring about series and/or historical representation), there is definitely an aspect of objectivity to it (like Plant vs. Mario, to repeat the extreme again). Even though Lyn, for example, might not be as obviously different from other FE characters that have a primary weapon other than a sword or transform into a beast, I still think she could be made unique enough to be fun to play, and not having her just seems super strange because she is so massively popular and iconic among FE characters, and she's also the most recognizable, most representative of the GBA era of FE, which many would say is one of its best eras. Sure, it's neat to have a grappler in Smash, but nowhere is it a necessity to have a grappler, and I wouldn't go about adding Incineroar just for that sake when I could add someone else who does some other cool thing (and most video game characters do some sort of cool, unique thing just by design).

As for balancing things like the number of villains, number of "Western" characters, genres, obligatory grass-type starter Pokémon, different weapon types in FE, etc., I agree that a character/series should get in on its own merits and not just because they fill some quota or apparent void, though. Representing these sorts of things I find to be more a matter of flavor than fairness or historical completeness. When I speak of "representing" things well, I mean mostly in terms of Nintendo history, notability, and such. The grass-type starters, for example, have seldom been the most popular/marketed of their generation, so it's no surprise they've missed the ball so far. As for villains, a lot of series only get one or two reps unless they're super big and important moneymakers for Nintendo, in which case the main heroes or most popular characters are added instead of the villain (it makes sense that K. Rool took longer than Diddy, say). For FPS, Nintendo simply doesn't make a lot of FPS games and so it should be no surprise to see comparatively fewer such characters. So if you think critically about these sorts of things that are apparently "missing," then you see that most of them can be explained away by the necessity for a generally well-justified ("fair," if you will) roster in terms of representing Nintendo history. Of course, the DLC for 4 and Ultimate have basically thrown all of this out the window, at least when it comes to the number and selection of third party reps.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ganondorf’s skin color has always been somewhere between olive green and grayish green to me, depending on the game. I’d say that every incarnation of him has at least some green.

View attachment 337618

Ah...I don't know. His Ocarina of Time version definitely looks more brownish compared to the other versions.