Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[osby]

What about reps from non-Japanese Asian games?
The only ones that pop from my mind are Travelers from Genshin and Striker from Dungeon and Fighter.
People talk about how Nintendo wants to extend its reach to Chinese market. While Genshin is absolutely gigantic, D&F shouldn't be underestimated.
I choose Striker because she is one of the main characters chosen for DNF Duel. While she may overlap with Chun-Li as female martial artist, I think Slayer class overlaps way more with Sol Badguy in term of aesthetic and playstyle.

I think Genshin Impact has at least a chance to get into Smash if it maintains its momentum. Its popularity is basically global at this point and it gathered a passionate fanbase. Though, the concerns about live service games' longevity and the fact that it didn't do many collaborations being super big might hold it back.

DNF may be an unexpected pick, as it is much more well-established as a franchise but it can go either way. Personally, I don't think the female Striker would be remarkably similar to Chun-Li. The former is a kickboxer while the latter's fighting style leans more toward kung-fu.

 

[Lenidem]

He fights like a powerhouse and has magic. "Nothing like" is clearly exaggerating here. He has tons of animations, fights physically and magically too. Yes, he fights like himself, just not as much as everyone wants.

Total disagree on that. In OoT, Ganondorf flies and shoot lighting balls at you. In Wind Waker, he fights you with two swords. In TP, he fights you on a horse, then on foot with a sword of light. In Smash, he does none of that, and his main weapon is... his fist. Also, "tons of animations" ? And I am the one exagerrating? But yeah, I guess that purple effect to some of his moves clearly shows his magical habilities...

It absolutely does. Cause the context was about how to balance Ganondorf and why canon moves aren't necessary to do so.

My point is that canonicity and balancing are totally unrelated. Of course, if you make Ganondorf invincible to anything bare the Master Sword, it would be disastrous, but nobody is seriously considering that.

Those require a completely different playstyle that doesn't flow at all like an actual power-based character. His lack of a projectile is a core balancing factor in itself, nor does he need one, since his issue is dealing with projectiles. A projectile constantly being reflected at him back would land him in the same position as he is now; bad. Magic isn't his only forte.

I am not talking about his current moveset, which is indeed fine as it is, if you only consider the playstyle. I'm talking about another Ganondorf, closer to the one we see in the Zelda games.

If we were going to get a magical projectile focused one, it would've only been Pig Ganon. He's the actual magic user at the core. Ganondorf is a physical and magical user at the core.

That's extremely presumptuous: his boss fight in Ocarina was exclusively based on magical projectiles. Pretending that there was no way that Smash could do the same baffles me.

Again, if you want a different playstyle, hope for another character.

I'm not hoping, I know it's a lost cause. And to be clear, I repeat that I do not want them to just include a projectile in his current moveset. What I would want is a totally different Ganondorf.

There's no good reason to alienate the fanbase when Ganondorf just needs buffs, not massive overhauls.

If you're only interested in the playstyle and not in the cross-over aspect of Smash, yes.

Again, just make a new character. There's zero legitimate reason to alienate a fanbase with these kind of overhauls.

Except the reasons you don't want to hear.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve been a Ganondorf main since Melee and while I love playing as him as he is, I’d gladly take a completely revamped moveset over what we have now. I play Ganondorf more because I like him as a character more than his moveset in particular. The ideas I shared on the last page were just a few ideas but the post under mine based on Hyrule Warriors would also be a ton of fun. I’m not opposed to the idea of adding Black Shadow to adopt Ganondorf’s Melee moveset and they give us something completely new for Ganondorf himself.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m not opposed to the idea of adding Black Shadow to adopt Ganondorf’s Melee moveset and they give us something completely new for Ganondorf himself.

Which is exactly what they need to do. Ganondorf character fans get a better Ganondorf. Ganondorf moveset fans get to keep using the moveset. And we get rid of the only clone character that's not even from the same series as the character they're cloning. It's win-win-win.

 

[Gengar84]

While they’re at it, they could add Dry Bowser to adopt Bowser’s Melee moveset and just give him a blue flamethrower. I don’t know if anybody else feels this way, but I miss Bowser’s more beastly portrayal in Smash. Adding Dry Bowser would accomplish something similar to Black Shadow and please fans of both the old and new movesets.

 

[Sucumbio]

So on the one hand you have the potential to reduce the roster as was discussed a few pages back, and on the other you could expand it with these recent ideas. It's interesting to think about. Like, there's two things going on. The character itself (icon status, relevance to their series, etc) and their implemention into the fighting game engine. This is one thing that I feel needs to be done very carefully. If the character plays like **** or is in some way unfun, difficult to use, etc, the their being a most wanted falls by the wayside because I can't enjoy using them.

 

[Perkilator]

While they’re at it, they could add Dry Bowser to adopt Bowser’s Melee moveset and just give him a blue flamethrower. I don’t know if anybody else feels this way, but I miss Bowser’s more beastly portrayal in Smash. Adding Dry Bowser would accomplish something similar to Black Shadow and please fans of both the old and new movesets.

Maybe with Dry Bowser, you could take Bowser's Melee moveset...but make Dry Bowser himself light and faster (since he's a skeleton) and give him an alternate Final Smash where his disembodied head floats around, shoots blue fireballs, and chomps on opponents (based on King Boo's boss battle from the first Luigi's Mansion)? Honestly, along with Alph and Shadow, Dry Bowser's one of those Echo Fighters that was a missed opportunity. It'll at least save people from the feces of his Spirit Battle, anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

So on the one hand you have the potential to reduce the roster as was discussed a few pages back, and on the other you could expand it with these recent ideas. It's interesting to think about. Like, there's two things going on. The character itself (icon status, relevance to their series, etc) and their implemention into the fighting game engine. This is one thing that I feel needs to be done very carefully. If the character plays like **** or is in some way unfun, difficult to use, etc, the their being a most wanted falls by the wayside because I can't enjoy using them.

Yeah, I hear you. I’m a big fan of Mega Man and Lucario but I have difficulty using either well in Smash. My style leans a bit more towards the slow heavy hitters. I used to main Fox for most of Melee before I switched to Ganondorf but I can’t seem to get anything going with him since then. On the other hand, Terry and Kazuya are a ton of fun to use despite my initial lack of interest in them as characters. Not that I was against their inclusion, I just don’t have a lot of experience with Tekken and even less with Fatal Fury/King of Fighters.

 

[HyperSomari64]

That’s fair. My brother’s a huge Star Wars and Alien fan and those all started before we were born. Maybe I’m still a kid at heart and never truly grew up. I’m still buying TMNT action figures so I probably haven’t changed much at all since I’ve aged lol.

I understand the Ninja Turtles being your pipe dream for Smash.
But the Xenomorph and Darth Vader would be cool in Smash tho.

 

[Sucumbio]

Lego Darth Vader. As an alt skin to Lego. Cause Lego.

 

[Gengar84]

I understand the Ninja Turtles being your pipe dream for Smash.
But the Xenomorph and Darth Vader would be cool in Smash tho.

I can’t argue that. Predator would be awesome too with all the different weapons and technology it has.

 

[fogbadge]

guys the only 4th party character that should get into smash is my dog. cause she's in WoW

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Lego Darth Vader. As an alt skin to Lego. Cause Lego.

Chase Mcain for smash.

 

[Gengar84]

How do you feel about game characters that debuted in a type of game other than a video game, like Liliana Vess from Magic: the Gathering? I assume that’s probably still off limits but it would be kind of cool to see a character from Magic in Smash one day since I’ve been playing that game since middle school.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, I think it's safe to say there won't be a Direct announcement today. But tomorrow is Nintendo's investor thing, so maybe something around then?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

How do you feel about game characters that debuted in a type of game other than a video game, like Liliana Vess from Magic: the Gathering? I assume that’s probably still off limits but it would be kind of cool to see a character from Magic in Smash one day since I’ve been playing that game since middle school.

The next Konami rep

(I have to stress that this is a joke)

 

[Gengar84]

The next Konami rep

(I have to stress that this is a joke)

Joke or not, he’d be a fun addition and probably more recognizable than a lot of existing Smash characters. Yu-Gi-Oh! is actually my friend’s all time favorite franchise ever so I’m sure he’d be hyped. As far as “4th party” franchises go, Yu-Gi-Oh! has a ton of video games at least.

There’s already a cool mod for Yugi and Kaiba in Ultimate:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[HyperSomari64]

How do you feel about game characters that debuted in a type of game other than a video game, like Liliana Vess from Magic: the Gathering? I assume that’s probably still off limits but it would be kind of cool to see a character from Magic in Smash one day since I’ve been playing that game since middle school.

I'm one of those "weirdos" that want Mr. Monopoly. (no joke)
And i have a friend that wants a Warhammer marine.

 

[DarthEnderX]

but make Dry Bowser himself light and faster (since he's a skeleton)

Dry Bowser is still a heavyweight in Mario Kart. So I doubt he's much lighter.

 

[fogbadge]

Dry Bowser is still a heavyweight in Mario Kart. So I doubt he's much lighter.

so are king boo and Rosalina and they float

 

[DarthEnderX]

How do you feel about game characters that debuted in a type of game other than a video game, like Liliana Vess from Magic: the Gathering?

As cool as it would be to have a Warhammer character, the answer is still no.

I'm one of those "weirdos" that want Mr. Monopoly. (no joke)

You have the Vault Boy mii. Same thing.

 

[chocolatejr9]

so are king boo and Rosalina and they float

I think that's due to their actual size...

 

[fogbadge]

I think that's due to their actual size...

presumably. but as king boo is a ghost i'm not convinced he's corporeal enough to have weight

 

[Gengar84]

presumably. but as king boo is a ghost i'm not convinced he's corporeal enough to have weight

If ghost Pokémon like Gastly can have a weight, I don’t see why a Boo couldn’t.

 

[Zerp]

My dream SEGA rep would be Chao honestly. I like small cutesy things and I like funny things lol.

How do you feel about game characters that debuted in a type of game other than a video game, like Liliana Vess from Magic: the Gathering? I assume that’s probably still off limits but it would be kind of cool to see a character from Magic in Smash one day since I’ve been playing that game since middle school.

I'm not sure if Nintendo would ever do it, but like, as for me personally? I'd have no issue with characters being from other kinds of games.

Well, I think it's safe to say there won't be a Direct announcement today. But tomorrow is Nintendo's investor thing, so maybe something around then?

There's a nine months earnings release tomorrow yeah. I don't think that necessarily means much for a direct though. Unless the earnings are meh, in which case yeah it'd be wise to get some announcements rolling right after lol.

Dry Bowser is still a heavyweight in Mario Kart. So I doubt he's much lighter.

I agree Dry Bowser probably wouldn't be very light but I don't think we can trust Mario Kart weights. Like, Waluigi shares the same weight as Donkey Kong in 8 Deluxe. I'd be very surprised if that's accurate given that one's a tall lanky guy and the other's a gorilla.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

On the topic of Sega, my top pick is definitely Kiryu, he's just such a fun character overall and Yakuza is an amazing franchise, I started it quite recently (2 years ago) but it already grew to be one of my favorite video game franchise. Ichiban could also be very fun tho. Eggman could also be very fun.

I wonder if Phantasy star could be considered in the future to have a character. I know next to nothing about the franchise, but I know that it's fairly big in Japan and we know Smash really like jrpg characters.

On the topic of a direct, I'm sure it will happen in February, but honestly I'm expecting nothing huge. We're probably going to have a trailer for Zelda and Pikmin 4, alongside numerous dlc that Nintendo have planned this year (Mario + rabbids sparks of hope wave 1, Xenoblade 3 wave 2, Fire emblem engage wave 2, Mario kart 8 deluxe wave 4, maybe Splatoon 3 single player dlc). I would expect like one surprise at best like a new casual game by Nintendo EPD 4 since they release a game every year (this is the team that made Ring fit adventure, Game builder garage, Switch sports etc.) and maybe the return of Advance wars and a new Mario sports, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Speed Weed]

Anybody up for another Sega discussion? Because this tweet has been living rent-free in my head ever since I saw it:

"Bug!", "Astal" and "Clockwork Knight" were efforts by Sega to replace Sonic the Hedgehog with a new mascot for the Saturn. Whichever game did the best at retail would be crowned king.

None of them did well enough to matter. https://t.co/O1ZOThz3b0 pic.twitter.com/4SsB5H4Cb3

— Ryan Bloom (@BlazeHedgehog) January 31, 2023

Any of these guys look like they'd be fun in Smash? Personally, I'm leaning towards Clockwork Knight (I like how doofy he looks), but I know nothing about any of these guys, so I may not be the best judge.

I wanna go back to this even if the SEGA discussion's subsided a little, just wanna give my two cents here

None of those would really be my first....or second.....or like......twentieth.....SEGA picks for Smash, but Pepper is actually an interesting case, cause SEGA reference Clockwork Knight....surprisingly often. They actually seem to treat it with some reverence, which is kind of shocking as it doesn't really seem like the kind of thing that would be brought up ever again. I wouldn't be totally shocked if it got a nod in a possible future SEGA crossover game.

Astal on the other hand.....yeah that's a loooooooongshot. Dude isn't really brought up at all for the most part, aside from appearing in a couple 20-something year old soundtrack releases and Segagaga. I do actually quite like his game's aesthetic and soundtrack, so it'd be neat to see it get a nod someday. As you can see though, definitely not a priority.

Bug is straight-up bottom-of-the-barrel level. Dude has like zero importance to SEGA's history whatsoever, he's very much in that crop of like D-list SEGA characters people always bring up for the lol funnies. To me he's one of the characters who kinda symbolize this really annoying tendency people have when it comes to SEGA, where they put these random nothing scrimblos on a pedestal at the expense of way more interesting stuff SEGA have put out. I do not like him.

So er yeah, that's my take. As for SEGA stuff I'd like to see in Smash, how about uhhhhh 20-something characters I think would be neat:

• Arle Nadja
• Sakura Shinguji
• Kazuma Kiryu
• Akira Yuki
• Alis Landale or Nei or Elenor Camuel or-
• Hotsuma
• Rikiya Busujima
• Blaze Fielding
• Opa-Opa or Harrier
• Gilius Thunderhead
• Alex Kidd
• Literally pick a character from classic Shining, there are so many cool ones
• Ryo Hazuki
• NiGHTS
• Ulala
• Beat
• Alicia Melchiott or Selvaria Bles
• Asha
• Vyse
• Temjin
• Bruno Delinger
• Gunstar Red or Gunstar Green or the Undead Hero or-
• Love and Berry

and of course, a lot of music I'd love to see as well. listen I just want a SEGA fighting game at this point ok

 

[HyperSomari64]

Outside of the Club SEGA stage, in terms of character the biggest pipe dream never-ever SEGA rep would be one of these two:

1. AGES from Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, this thing can transform into whatever SEGA related content. It would be funny and has a very creative moveset potential.
2. Hatsune Miku, Yeah maybe i'm cheating, but many (including SEGA themselves) consider her a SEGA character, even if she's owned by Crypton Future Media.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the weirdness with Sega is that there's a tendency of characters outside Sonic and Yakuza to not have as much appeal in both East and West. The famous ones tend to be either well known in America/Europe, well known in Japan, but not often both. Part of that is rooted in the typical lopsided success of the big consoles (Genesis successful in one region, Saturn successful in the other) and the contrasting endurance of arcades depending on the territory. Its telling that even with Arle being more popular in Japan, she'd probably be one of the less lopsided examples because of Puyo Puyo steadily growing Western presence in the last 10 years.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If we're talking SEGA reps

I need him

Yes this is like the 50th time I brought him up in regards to a Sega rep. I swear I'll get better material eventually

 

[HyperSomari64]

but many (including SEGA themselves) consider her a SEGA character

Sorry, maybe i'm being stupid for quoting myself, but...

is Mickey Mouse a Sega character?

are The Ghostbusters Sega characters?

is Ronald McDonald a Sega character?

(a little upset that Ecco the Dolphin wasn't name drop)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Part of the weirdness with Sega is that there's a tendency of characters outside Sonic and Yakuza to not have as much appeal in both East and West. The famous ones tend to be either well known in America/Europe, well known in Japan, but not often both. Part of that is rooted in the typical lopsided success of the big consoles (Genesis successful in one region, Saturn successful in the other) and the contrasting endurance of arcades depending on the territory. Its telling that even with Arle being more popular in Japan, she'd probably be one of the less lopsided examples because of Puyo Puyo steadily growing Western presence in the last 10 years.

Yeah, Sega in Japan and Sega in America are like two completely different companies, Sonic, Bayonetta and Persona are basically their only IP's with appeal worldwide that aren't Yakuza.

So yeah, put Yakuza in there and complete the set.

Sorry, maybe i'm being stupid for quoting myself, but...

is Mickey Mouse a Sega character?
View attachment 367746

are The Ghostbusters Sega characters?
View attachment 367747

is Ronald McDonald a Sega character?
View attachment 367748


(a little upset that Ecco the Dolphin wasn't name drop)

The difference is that Miku debuted in a piece of software first.

Software, that's a game, case closed

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly, I think if it were my call I'd probably do a dual territory pleaser with Arle Nadja and Blaze Fielding. Both have long legacies with Sega, have recent games, are still relatively well known even in their less popular regions, and the contrast in their fighting styles would make both feel distinct. A character from the one of the greatest puzzle games of all time alongside a fighter from one of the greatest beat em ups of all time feels right; plus the crossover art of "Streets of Puyo" would make it entirely worth it.

 

[HyperSomari64]

The difference is that Miku debuted in a piece of software first.

Software, that's a game, case closed

McZee for Smash!!!

 

[dream1ng]

Well, I think it's safe to say there won't be a Direct announcement today. But tomorrow is Nintendo's investor thing, so maybe something around then?

I'm not sure they've ever announced a Direct the same day as an investor meeting. My guess, given it wasn't today, is a Wednesday announcement for a Direct on Thursday. But if it happens sooner, great.

I wonder if Phantasy star could be considered in the future to have a character. I know next to nothing about the franchise, but I know that it's fairly big in Japan and we know Smash really like jrpg characters.

I think Phantasy Star has two main hindrances inhibiting it from being a likelier choice, being, as you say, the lopsided appeal, but also the lack of a singular character to band around. The closest thing would be Alis, who is sort of the Marth of the series and, granted, appears in both the original series and Online (sort of), which is a valuable point in her favor, imo. But her major appearances are sporadic, and she doesn't seem to have any real demand.

Were PS to only have one of these two shortcomings, I think you'd have a much more auspicious case.

Outside of the Club SEGA stage, in terms of character the biggest pipe dream never-ever SEGA rep would be one of these two:

1. AGES from Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, this thing can transform into whatever SEGA related content. It would be funny and has a very creative moveset potential.
2. Hatsune Miku, Yeah maybe i'm cheating, but many (including SEGA themselves) consider her a SEGA character, even if she's owned by Crypton Future Media.

I think Miku is a grey area where if she was included, it wouldn't elicit a complete overhaul in the conception of who is eligible in a way Goku or Batman would. People would justify it on the basis of it still being computer software.

Y'know. Like Clippy.

The difference is that Miku debuted in a piece of software first.

Software, that's a game, case closed

Yeah, like this.

Even though software isn't necessarily a game.

Honestly, I think if it were my call I'd probably do a dual territory pleaser with Arle Nadja and Blaze Fielding. Both have long legacies with Sega, have recent games, are still relatively well known even in their less popular regions, and the contrast in their fighting styles would make both feel distinct. A character from the one of the greatest puzzle games of all time alongside a fighter from one of the greatest beat em ups of all time feels right; plus the crossover art of "Streets of Puyo" would make it entirely worth it.

They're not bad choices but the fact that Kiryu can do almost all of this other than the puzzle game stuff for half the resources/time (because it's one character instead of two) is good evidence of why opting against a character with high global appeal is rare.

Because in theory it's a nice idea, two characters instead of one, but from a practical perspective, if lopsided characters are worth 1 in terms of audience, and globally appealing characters are worth 2, then you're deliberately going for a 2 total when those same spots together could be worth 4. And then justifying that monetarily and in the real scenario where spots are limited, it becomes somewhat of a wasteful proposition.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean the one reason I'm not using Kiryu is that my understanding was the creator wasn't fond of the idea of him fighting women, hence him being unlikely for Smash. He's the most sensible non-Sonic Sega character otherwise, but he if won't get in for that reason, a dual regional approach feels like it makes sense.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I mean the one reason I'm not using Kiryu is that my understanding was the creator wasn't fond of the idea of him fighting women, hence him being unlikely for Smash. He's the most sensible non-Sonic Sega character otherwise, but he if won't get in for that reason, a dual regional approach feels like it makes sense.

He left Sega a while ago so it's fine now.

Also he had to approve of this, a game where Kiryu fights women.

 

[HyperSomari64]

He left Sega a while ago so it's fine now.

Also he had to approve of this, a game where Kiryu fights women.

Weird that he accepted for his character to tussle women, but Sonic Team didn't accepted Sonic to be at least an NPC like Klonoa.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Weird that he accepted for his character to tussle women, but Sonic Team didn't accepted Sonic to be at least an NPC like Klonoa.

Why is it that every time somebody vaguely brings up PXZ, you always complain about how Sonic isn't a playable character? Like, wasn't that one of the main appeals of Sega's appearance, to allow other IPs a chance in the spotlight?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It does become clear that a lot of people aren't aware of Sega history whenever we have these discussions.

Like yeah Sonic is super important and is a top 5 Sega brand. But he isn't close to being all they have.

Weird that he accepted for his character to tussle women, but Sonic Team didn't accepted Sonic to be at least an NPC like Klonoa.

The game was for anime style characters. Let it go.