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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SPEN18

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Yeah, PKMN is a series where it's not just that the individual selections are not always good but even more that the actual process that's been set up is suboptimal at best, or broken and unsustainable at worst.

They sorta got lucky with Lucario and Greninja, less lucky with Incineroar (even if you like Incineroar you gotta admit it's less of a hit than the former two). Maybe it's relatively "safe" to just pick starters but I think it's equally "safe" to pick mons that are always relevant and always popular, as proven over their years of existence.

Also, is there any hard evidence that a newgen mon specifically is going to help sell their game better than any other mon that appears in it?

And sometimes oldgen mons can even be used to specifically market the new games, like how Gardevoir could have been used to represent the new Fairy-types and Megas in gen 6, or how Gengar could potentially be given a Gigantamax Final Smash for Sw/Sh (come to think of it I would actually kinda like to see that).
 
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fogbadge

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But more types is not necessarily more variety: there are plenty of mons with the same types as those with PCs Smash that would still bring very unique movesets.
Plus it would just be a straight quota, and not even one that has to do with historical importance or iconicness of the series/games themselves.
well we've only got one ice based fighter on the roster and anyone who thinks any of the ice type pokemon would fight similarly to them is imagining things. cant think of any fighter the vast majority of ghost types would play similar too. same for bug and rock and ground

historical importance and iconicness arent always what gets a pokemon into smash. jigglypuff cause she was cloned from kirby, greninja cause sakurai liked his design, inceneroar cause he wanted to make a wrestler. pikachu cause he was among those sak consider to be the main nintendo characters at the time, which would be because of popularity. the rest i dont think he ever said why he included them and weve only ever inferred the reasons why without actually knowing. so we can assume mewtwo, lucario and the trainer were added cause of popularity and pichu cause hes a clone but we dont actually know.
 

osby

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Also, is there any hard evidence that a newgen mon specifically is going to help sell their game better than any other mon that appears in it?
No, just like there's no hard evidence that Pokemon from the latest gens are added solely for increasing the sales of their games.
 

PeridotGX

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I've probably said this before, but I probably would've preferred if the Incineroar/Piranha Plant situation was swapped. Add a popular Mario character (probably Waluigi, but maybe Paper Mario or Toad), and then follow it up with the most random Pokémon ever. Incineroar or Decidueye or Mimikyu or whatever will be popular with or without Smash, but other Pokemon would really benefit from the boost, and also have moveset potential unlikely to be seen anywhere else. Imagine the universe where Dhelmise, Pallosand, Stakataka, Dewpider, or Oricorio got into Smash - and were really good. And that's only if we're looking at Gen 7 Pokemon, we could get far more chaotic if we go older. I think it would be fun, and I don't think anyone would have been mad.
 

Stratos

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If a new Pokémon is to come in the next Super Smash Bros. game as a newcomer, it will be from the 9th generation, in other words from the Pokémon Scarlet and Pokémon Violet versions or from the 10th generation versions.
 
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Gengar84

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I've probably said this before, but I probably would've preferred if the Incineroar/Piranha Plant situation was swapped. Add a popular Mario character (probably Waluigi, but maybe Paper Mario or Toad), and then follow it up with the most random Pokémon ever. Incineroar or Decidueye or Mimikyu or whatever will be popular with or without Smash, but other Pokemon would really benefit from the boost, and also have moveset potential unlikely to be seen anywhere else. Imagine the universe where Dhelmise, Pallosand, Stakataka, Dewpider, or Oricorio got into Smash - and were really good. And that's only if we're looking at Gen 7 Pokemon, we could get far more chaotic if we go older. I think it would be fun, and I don't think anyone would have been mad.
I’d love to see more random characters in general. I’m probably one of the few people who have Plant as one of their favorite newcomers in Ultimate. I would have preferred Goomba but I love a lot of the Mario enemies. Boo would be cool too. I’d love to see some of my favorite random Pokémon make it into Smash like Electabuzz, Golisopod, Gligar, Cofagrigus, Orbeetle, Sneasel, or tons of others as well. There are so many Pokémon I love that I’d be here all day if I tried to name them all lol. Hopefully we get something a little less obvious next time for Pokémon.
 
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Stratos

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Some people want Meowth as a newcomer to the next Super Smash Bros. game because it has become famous thanks to the anime. I wanted it too, but now I do not know if I really want it. I'm no exception, but I must not forget that Wobbuffet has become famous in the same way so I do not expect it to happen.
 

Perkilator

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Some people want Meowth as a newcomer to the next Super Smash Bros. game because it has become famous thanks to the anime.
If anything, I think it should’ve been one of the original 12 instead of Jigglypuff. I just wish I knew whose body shape could be used as a base for the first game.
 
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fogbadge

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Some people want Meowth as a newcomer to the next Super Smash Bros. game because it has become famous thanks to the anime. I wanted it too, but now I do not know if I really want it. I'm no exception, but I must not forget that Wobbuffet has become famous in the same way so I do not expect it to happen.
What you have to remember is that meowth is easier to turn into a fighter than wobuffet, assuming you want to be loyal to the characters

also wobuffuet has had long periods of absence from the anime during which time meowth was still present
 

Stratos

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What you have to remember is that meowth is easier to turn into a fighter than wobuffet, assuming you want to be loyal to the characters

also wobuffuet has had long periods of absence from the anime during which time meowth was still present
You're right.
 

SPEN18

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well we've only got one ice based fighter on the roster and anyone who thinks any of the ice type pokemon would fight similarly to them is imagining things. cant think of any fighter the vast majority of ghost types would play similar too. same for bug and rock and ground
I wasn't saying that mons of unrepresented types wouldn't be unique, but rather that there are some mons of existing types that would be equally unique.

historical importance and iconicness arent always what gets a pokemon into smash
If it wasn't too clear I was talking about what I think should happen there, not what does.

--

No, just like there's no hard evidence that Pokemon from the latest gens are added solely for increasing the sales of their games.
I probably should have phrased the question differently.

But what other reason is there for adding a character completely unrevealed to the public over other options from the same series that are (1) equally unique, (2) known to be popular for a long time, and (3) appear regularly in mainline and spinoff games from the series, alongside being featured prominently in marketing?

Point is, almost any reason given for adding a new mon, other than advertising their games, could also be applied to any other mon (even moveset uniqueness).

The only other reasons I can think of right now are (1) making the relatively safe assumption that the new starters will end up popular, (2) trying to keep the roster from looking "dated" so quickly by adding recent characters, and (3) just blatant personal favoritism from Sakurai because he likes the design.
I think all of those should be secondary considerations at best, especially when the stated alternatives are also constantly relevant and popular characters with their own specially unique qualities. We have DLC now to keep the roster looking "recent" if (2) is such a big deal, and with (1) you're running an unnecessary risk when you have another character you know people already like.
 

Gengar84

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If the next game, by some miracle, is an Ultimate Deluxe, besides characters, what other new content would y’all like to see?
I want to see a lot of characters get actual alternate outfits instead of just palate swaps. Possibly a custom color editor so we could make our own alts. I’d also love to see the options in Stage Builder greatly expanded, including choosing spawn points and being able to select any background, choosing the color of each material among many other things. Finally, some kind of co-op adventure style mode similar to Subspace Emissary would be my number one most wanted mode.
 
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JOJONumber691

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I really want Smash Run, as well as some equivalent to either Team Kirby Clash or Guest Star. Also the Rocket Cracker and Every Stage would be cool too.
 

SPEN18

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fairly is the one thing it is not
I mean, it's not going to be perfect nor 100% objective but I'd like some solid standard for inclusion rather than just total chaos.

--

In the event that a full-fledged adventure/story mode would still be detrimentally resource-intensive, Smash Run could be a fine substitute with some tweaks. I didn't really like the final battles at the end determining everything; they didn't really feel like a worthy climax and detracted from the importance of performing well in the main part of the mode, IMO. Maybe instead of being strictly PVP it could be shifted more towards single-player or co-op exploration, with the goal to run around and obtain collectibles.
 

Ivander

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If the next game, by some miracle, is an Ultimate Deluxe, besides characters, what other new content would y’all like to see?
Smash Run with additional Options, like changing the amount of time you play, which event you do at the end of Smash Run, etc. Or at the very least, enemies that appeared in Smash Run, as well as a couple new ones, appearing in Spirit Battles. Like say Koopa Troopas in Koopa-related Spirit Battles or being used to represent similar enemies from the game the Spirit is from. Or Bonkers from Kirby in the Bonkers Spirit Battle.

I just really enjoyed fighting the enemies in Smash Run and would like it to return in some fashion or idea.
 

fogbadge

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Lol yeah. I’m a bit behind the times myself with all the modern slang but I’ve seen “based” used before as a synonym for “really cool”.
i dont think i ever knew them

I really want Smash Run, as well as some equivalent to either Team Kirby Clash or Guest Star. Also the Rocket Cracker and Every Stage would be cool too.
there was something immensely fun tearing through horde of enemies from different franchises, wouldnt mind seeing some FF, BK and KH ones in the mix. whats rocket cracker?
 

Gengar84

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One small quality of life thing I’d like to see changed is that giant “Ready to Fight!” banner. It makes it really annoying to change characters if you’re playing multiple battles because it takes up most of the screen and covers most of the characters. I always have to move around the cursor randomly and guess where the character was that I want to change.
 

YeppersPeppers

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If the next game, by some miracle, is an Ultimate Deluxe, besides characters, what other new content would y’all like to see?
While I do enjoy the character-specific Classic Mode routes, I would like to see a standard, randomized or semi-randomized Classic Mode option for when I want to just do a quick run with any character and not do the same predetermined set of fights.
 
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Stratos

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There is a question, if there is Adventure Mode in the next Super Smash Bros., after Galeem and Dharkon who will be the final boss? None of us can know that.
 

JOJONumber691

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There is a question, if there is Adventure Mode in the next Super Smash Bros., after Galeem and Dharkon who will be the final boss? None of us can know that.
If this were a fan fiction chat I would start getting into my perfect Smash Story, but this isn’t so I won’t.
 

Stratos

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There are so many other video game characters that have not appeared in the Super Smash Bros. series, but for new ones to come, unfortunately some of the veterans have to leave, because the number of characters that has Super Smash Bros Ultimate is large and I do not think it can become bigger. But I wish it got bigger.
 

Gengar84

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There are so many other video game characters that have not appeared in the Super Smash Bros. series, but for new ones to come, unfortunately some of the veterans have to leave, because the number of characters that has Super Smash Bros Ultimate is large and I do not think it can become bigger. But I wish it got bigger.
That’s true. I don’t really like to think about cuts if I’m being honest. I’ll probably always buy the newest Smash game but something will always feel missing from here on if there are too many cuts. At least we’ll always have Ultimate and there are ways to extend Ultimate’s life almost indefinitely.

1652816248260.jpeg

 
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Stratos

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Some people are hoping for a Super Smash Bros. Cinematic Universe or a Nintendo Cinematic Universe, but I do not see it happening. Too bad, I would like that.
 
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3DSNinja

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Oct 30, 2018
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I do have a question.

How likely do you think a Genshin character is, and how would you feel about one hypothetically getting in?
Again, purely hypothetical. I'd personally think it's not super likely, but definently possible, and I'd be cool with it, though that's just me, heh.
 

HyperSomari64

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This "Only videogame characters" rule imposed by Sakurai made me think about a spin-off for the series with the opposite, the anti-thesis of that: "only characters that weren't originally from a video game".
That would make Nintendo go bankrupcty for all the licensing fees for the external companies. So let's stop dreaming that.
After all, MultiVersus or Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl can potentially be tainted if they include Third-Party characters.
 
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Yamat08

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Oct 11, 2021
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i would have preferred any of the ultra beats over inceneroar

actually id preferred any other gen 7 pokemon but an ultra beast would still have been cool
Agreed. Given that Mimikyu was already Trophied, I was honestly hoping for an Ultra Beast like Buzzwole (who could also represent Incineroar's grappling style), or even Nihilego (now THERE's an idea for an unconventional Fighter). Really, given how story-relevent they are to gen7, it just seems like a waste to pass them over just to pick one of the starters again.

I really wanted Golisopod for a Gen 7 rep. Golisopod is in in my top three favorite Pokémon ever with Gengar and Cofagrigus and would have made an awesome Smash fighter. We don’t have any Bug types yet and very few Water elemental characters. Lycanroc would have been another cool choice. I’m not mad at Incineroar though. Starters are kind of boring in general but I’m a big pro wrestling fan and Smash did a lot to showcase its personality.
Yeah, as much as I was desperately hoping the Kencineroar leak wouldn't be true, the little gag at the end of Incineroar's trailer really helped me warm up a bit towards it. I REALLY hope that picking one of the three generational starters won't be a continued trend going forward, though (especially if they go with yet another Fire-type starter, which is why I absolutely despised the fan pick of Cinderace).

Sadly, with Pokemon, there's just too many characters in that franchise for any representation in Smash to be particularly satisfying (not unless they did something absolutely bonkers like a 1,000 character roster), but I think they could do better than blatant promotional picks that didn't even have a chance for proper fan reaction. Hell, even the current anime series has barely bothered with promoting gen8 content, instead putting more of a focus on appealing to audiences who've only recently been getting into the franchise through Pokemon GO (Ash's current team is an especially good indication of this, to say nothing of the character literally named Go).

If the next game, by some miracle, is an Ultimate Deluxe, besides characters, what other new content would y’all like to see?
I'd love it if Ultimate just went all-in on being one big series-wide compilation. Restore all the remaining stages, remaining music tracks, the few missing items, old modes, a proper Boss Rush (and also an option to play against all the bosses individually, including both solo and pair options for Master Hand & Crazy Hand and Galeem & Dharkon, maybe an option for each individual form of Master Core as well), and an updated port of Subspace Emissary (mostly the same game upgraded to HD, just that half the roster has to be unlocked like Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link, and the FMVs are untouched under the pretense of being legacy content).

Also, like Smash for WiiU, have all the character trailers be available in-game (the Brawl, Smash4, and Ultimate reveals, maybe the N64 and Melee trailers, and the veteran trailers from the Ultimate website). Give us a studio mode, allowing us to take pictures (and maybe movies) similar to the modded version of Ultimate that Sakurai uses for his Twitter account. The character select screen and stage select screens are completely customizeable (you can go into options to order them however you want, and even hide undesirable options if you please, which should really help with the people overwhelmed by the insane amount of options while also resolving complaints about release-order being the only ordering that's available). Hazards Off stages are just an option alongside Omega and Battlefield. Separate languages can be selected for text and voices. Stage Creator can have options for making Break The Target, Board The Platforms, and Race To The Finish stages, and maybe some arenas for bosses and mob enemies (and like Brawl, creations can be saved to the SD card).

And give us more Mii Fighter slots. It saddens me that this never got increased despite continually adding more and more costumes through DLC. At the very least, have the 99 limit be separated between Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner. Alternatively, they could give us some pre-built sets that are separate from the custom ones (with some examples being the default Miis unlocked in World of Light, and several character-based sets that come with their respective costumes, the latter of which has the benefit of sparing people who just wanna play as Sans or whoever from going through the creation process). Or again, SD card.

Save data from the first Ultimate is transferrable to this version, and Ultimate's DLC is compatible with this release. However, they'd also release a premium pack. More expensive, but allowing all the DLC to be available on a physical cart.
 

fogbadge

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Agreed. Given that Mimikyu was already Trophied, I was honestly hoping for an Ultra Beast like Buzzwole (who could also represent Incineroar's grappling style), or even Nihilego (now THERE's an idea for an unconventional Fighter). Really, given how story-relevent they are to gen7, it just seems like a waste to pass them over just to pick one of the starters again.
yeah a big space jellyfish would have stood out on the roster. its a shame they did get a bit more in the game, even just the battle theme would have been nice
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
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I'd love it if Ultimate just went all-in on being one big series-wide compilation. Restore all the remaining stages, remaining music tracks, the few missing items, old modes, a proper Boss Rush (and also an option to play against all the bosses individually, including both solo and pair options for Master Hand & Crazy Hand and Galeem & Dharkon, maybe an option for each individual form of Master Core as well), and an updated port of Subspace Emissary (mostly the same game upgraded to HD, just that half the roster has to be unlocked like Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link, and the FMVs are untouched under the pretense of being legacy content).

Also, like Smash for WiiU, have all the character trailers be available in-game (the Brawl, Smash4, and Ultimate reveals, maybe the N64 and Melee trailers, and the veteran trailers from the Ultimate website). Give us a studio mode, allowing us to take pictures (and maybe movies) similar to the modded version of Ultimate that Sakurai uses for his Twitter account. The character select screen and stage select screens are completely customizeable (you can go into options to order them however you want, and even hide undesirable options if you please, which should really help with the people overwhelmed by the insane amount of options while also resolving complaints about release-order being the only ordering that's available). Hazards Off stages are just an option alongside Omega and Battlefield. Separate languages can be selected for text and voices. Stage Creator can have options for making Break The Target, Board The Platforms, and Race To The Finish stages, and maybe some arenas for bosses and mob enemies (and like Brawl, creations can be saved to the SD card).

And give us more Mii Fighter slots. It saddens me that this never got increased despite continually adding more and more costumes through DLC. At the very least, have the 99 limit be separated between Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner. Alternatively, they could give us some pre-built sets that are separate from the custom ones (with some examples being the default Miis unlocked in World of Light, and several character-based sets that come with their respective costumes, the latter of which has the benefit of sparing people who just wanna play as Sans or whoever from going through the creation process). Or again, SD card.

Save data from the first Ultimate is transferrable to this version, and Ultimate's DLC is compatible with this release. However, they'd also release a premium pack. More expensive, but allowing all the DLC to be available on a physical cart.
Honestly yeah. Upscale everything to HD and just make it one massive Smash Collection. Maybe to go alongside this it could also have optional physics of the previous games being brought over as well, which could apply themselves to the event matches and maybe even Subspace. Overall I love your idea.
 
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