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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SPEN18

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Nov 1, 2018
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MI, USA
Honesty instead of doing same discussion over and over, I think we do something more on the lines for character support. Every time in this season, Character pushing dies down which always chances for characters to get and support seems more of a fad than everything else.

Especially now as Sakurai is on his next project.
There has actually been a fair bit of tossing around different characters and debating their merits, likelihoods, etc.

But yeah, it's funny how the majority of the community only gets rowdy when a new game is already revealed, at which point the base roster has been decided...right now would actually be the time to keep pushing for characters but, alas, that's not how human minds work, I guess.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
288
Speaking of Konami here's something I haven't ever brought up in the thread...

Frogger? What about Frogger? A classic arcade rep and probably dirt cheap as far as licensing goes.

The only thing I'd personally prefer is to not use the cloth-wearing talking adventurer Frogger they tried in the aughts and instead opt to go for a faithful interpretation of the classic Frogger. I know people would say it's impossible because it's just a frog at that point but I think that's where the charm would lie and really does anybody actually like talking clothed Frogger? I think he sucks.

I feel like this Frogger (Frogger 3DS cover) has enough personality to carry the character into Smash. You'd have to get really creative with his moveset. Up-Special could have him jumping off a lily pad. Neutral-Special could be like spitting poison darts very similar to Ivysaur's Neutral-Special except Frogger would shoot his in from of himself and maybe he could have store the charge like Samus' Neutral-Special. Side-Special could have him summon a truck to run over opponents while he rides on top kind of like Wario's motorbike. Down-Special would be him burping some random animal out of his mouth that acts as an AI assist. A swarm of flies would quickly follow the nearest opponent around and do small damage with no knockback similar to how standing in Pirana Plant's poison works, second one would be a snail shell that acts as a heavily projectile similar to K. Rool's blunderbuss bullet and the final one would be a snake that scurries around the stage until near an enemy player to bite at!

Tilts could be tongue attacks. Smash attacks would have him summon his briefcase (https://twitter.com/7even_seas/status/1272952745910140928) and swing it in the appropriate direction and his grab/pummel/throws would be ripped from Yoshi and he could use his grab (tongue) to grab ledge. Aerials would have use his stretchy limbs in some odd fashion to spin kick and flip around wildly. Give him a float (holding jump button) where he fills up his mouth with air like a balloon (the thing he did in his meme game) and him croak the air out as the float runs out.

You could even put the tie on him and have his alts be real-world frog recolors coupled with an accompanying wacky tie to match.

For the stage I don't know. I'm thinking some really chaotic... Like having the stage platform be constantly be moving from truck to truck requiring the players to constantly jump towards the middle as the trucks on either of the far sides drive into the blast zone. That'd be really cool I think.

frogger.jpg
 
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Sucumbio

Smash Enforcer
Moderator
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Messages
6,519
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CP - GOSHAY MS
Speaking of Konami here's something I haven't ever brought up in the thread...

Frogger? What about Frogger? A classic arcade rep and probably dirt cheap as far as licensing goes.

The only thing I'd personally prefer is to not use the cloth-wearing talking adventurer Frogger they tried in the aughts and instead opt to go for a faithful interpretation of the classic Frogger. I know people would say it's impossible because it's just a frog at that point but I think that's where the charm would lie and really does anybody actually like talking clothed Frogger? I think he sucks.

I feel like this Frogger (Frogger 3DS cover) has enough personality to carry the character into Smash. You'd have to get really creative with his moveset. Up-Special could have him jumping off a lily pad. Neutral-Special could be like spitting poison darts. Side-Special could have him summon a truck to run over opponents while he rides on top kind of like Wario's motorbike. Down-Special would be him burping some random animal out of his mouth that acts as an AI assist. A swarm of flies would quickly follow the nearest opponent around and do small damage with no knockback similar to how standing in Pirana Plant's poison works, second one would be a snail shell that acts as a heavily projectile similar to K. Rool's blunderbuss bullet and the final one would be a snake that scurries around the stage until near an enemy player to bite at!

Tilts could be tongue attacks. Smash attacks would have him summon his briefcase (https://twitter.com/7even_seas/status/1272952745910140928) and swing it in the appropriate direction and his grab/pummel/throws would be ripped from Yoshi and he could use his grab (tongue) to grab ledge. Aerials would have use his stretchy limbs in some odd fashion to spin kick and flip around wildly. Give him a float (holding jump button) where he fills up his mouth with air like a ballon (the thing he did in his meme game) and him croak the air out as the float runs out.

You could even put the tie on him and have his alts be real-world frog recolors coupled with an accompanying wacky tie to match.

For the stage I don't know. I'm thinking some really chaotic... Like having the stage platform be constantly be moving from truck to truck requiring the players to constantly jump towards the middle as the trucks on either of the far sides drive into the blast zone. That'd be really cool I think.

View attachment 352369
Frogger and I would like to asd Pitfall Harry both seem to be classics that are missing. Both were hugely popular on the 2600 and are icons of video games. Though I suppose Frogger has had more games than Pitfall. And Pitfall is Activision so not related to the Konami bit unless Konami got bought by Microsoft :O
 
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Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
288
Frogger and I would like to asd Pitfall Harry both seem to be classics that are missing. Both were hugely popular on the 2600 and are icons of video games. Though I suppose Frogger has had more games than Pitfall. And Pitfall is Activision so not related to the Konami bit unless Konami got bought by Microsoft :O
I agree with Pitfall Harry not being shown enough support! I got the Gamecube adventure game waaaaaaay back when for my birthday and it was such an amazing game. His design for that game is practically made for Smash. You'd also have to pull almost his entire moveset from that game BUT the stage could be a hodgepodge of elements from the classic Pitfall games with ladders and alligators/scorpions/spiders and pitfalls into spikes and rolling logs to jump over!

I would love to see what Toys for Bob would do with a modern Pitfall game! Like a cartoony Uncharted.
 

Perkilator

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Messages
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San Clemente, CA
On the topic of Frogger, here's a Spirit Battle I made up for him:
Frogger.png Frogger
Class: ★
Type: Support (Shield)
Cost: ⬡
Effect: Landing Lag ↓

  • Puppet Fighter: :ultgreninja: (Color 6)
  • Stage: Onett
  • Music: Libble Rabble Retro Medley
  • Match: Stock (1)
  • Item: Food
  • Conditions:
    • The enemy loves to jump
    • Items are pulled towards the enemy
    • Hostile Assist Trophies (Flies & Hand)
 

Ivander

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
9,059
I don't know... the main(?) character having "I hate myself" written on her forehead is giving me Jared Leto Joker flashbacks.

Before you ask, no, that's not a good thing.
I mean, looking at the image, her "skin" is ripping/flipping off like paper to reveal those messages, so she may not actually have those messages on her. But I'll see what happens when we're actually shown the game and whatnot.
 
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dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
678
I don't know... the main(?) character having "I hate myself" written on her forehead is giving me Jared Leto Joker flashbacks.

Before you ask, no, that's not a good thing.
Yeah it looks more like stylized key art than the actual in-game character design to me.
 

Final Smash Gamer

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What are some custom moves you wished made the transition from Smash 4 to Ultimate as default special moves and why it's Upper Cutter and Wizard's Dropkick?
 

Diddy Kong

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What are some custom moves you wished made the transition from Smash 4 to Ultimate as default special moves and why it's Upper Cutter and Wizard's Dropkick?
Why my make them all accessable in some way or form by doing special inputs for the Special Attacks ?
 

Final Smash Gamer

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Why my make them all accessable in some way or form by doing special inputs for the Special Attacks ?
Among the feasible ones I have in mind:

  • :ultkirby:'s default up special being Upper Cutter which changes back to Final Cutter if close enough to an opponent.
  • :ultpikachu:'s neutral special being Thunder Shock because seriously it needs to get nerfed hard.
  • :ultbowser:'s neutral special being Fire Shot if the button is tapped, and turns to Fire Breath if held.
  • :ultzelda:'s Din's Fire becoming Din's Blaze if the stick is tapped instead of tilted.
  • :ultganondorf:'s neutral special being a reworked version of Warlock Blade involving the trident he uses as Ganon instead of the Sword of the Six Sages that reverts back to Warlock Punch if reversed.
  • :ultcharizard:'s side special being Dragon Rush which becomes Flare Blitz if the stick is tapped.
  • :ultlittlemac: performing his Dash Counter instead of his Slip Counter if the stick is tilted forward during the counter window.
  • :ultrobin:'s default down special acting like Distant Nosferatu which becomes regular Nosferatu if the opponent is close enough.
 
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Perkilator

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Messages
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Location
San Clemente, CA

What are some custom moves you wished made the transition from Smash 4 to Ultimate as default special moves?
  • Link
    • Ripping Boomerang (using the Lizal Tri-Boomerang)
  • Pikachu
    • Thunder Wave
  • Luigi
    • Iceball
    • Mach Cyclone
  • Ness
    • PK Fire Burst
  • Jigglypuff
    • Pound Blitz
  • Daisy
    • Grumpy Toad
    • Flower Bomber
  • Bowser
    • Fire Shot
  • Dr. Mario
    • Clothesline Tornado
  • Pichu
    • Thunder Shock
    • Shocking Skull Bash (renamed Nuzzle)
  • Lucina
    • Dashing Assault
    • Effortless Blade (now does all finisher types; forward, down and up in that order)
    • Dolphin Jump
    • Iai Counter
  • Young Link
    • Giant Bomb (renamed Bomb Flower)
  • Ganondorf
    • Warlock Blade
    • Wizard’s Dropkick
  • Chrom
    • Paralyzing Counter
  • Dark Pit
    • Striking Flight
  • Wario
    • Inhaling Chomp
    • Rose-Scented Waft
  • Charizard
    • Fire Roar (renamed Dragon Breath; paralyzes opponents)
    • Fire Fang (side Smash)
  • Sonic
    • Stomp (down air)
  • Wolf
    • Charge Blaster
  • Little Mac
    • Tornado Uppercut
    • Dash Counter
  • Greninja
    • Exploding Attack
  • Palutena
    • Super Speed (now a straightforward dashing special)
  • Shulk
    • Advancing Air Slash
 

Diddy Kong

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Among the feasible ones I have in mind:

  • :ultkirby:'s default up special being Upper Cutter which changes back to Final Cutter if close enough to an opponent.
  • :ultpikachu:'s neutral special being Thunder Shock because seriously it needs to gets nerfed hard.
  • :ultbowser:'s neutral special being Fire Shot if the button is tapped, and turns to Fire Breath if hold.
  • :ultzelda:'s Din's Fire becoming Din's Blaze if the stick is tapped instead of tilted.
  • :ultganondorf:'s neutral special being a reworked version of Warlock Blade involving the trident he uses as Ganon instead of the Sword of the Six Sages that changes back to Warlock Punch if reversed.
  • :ultcharizard:'s side special being Dragon Rush which becomes Flare Blitz if the stick is tapped.
  • :ultlittlemac: performing his Dash Counter instead of his Slip Counter if the stick is tilted forward during the counter window.
  • :ultrobin:'s default down special acting like Distant Nosferatu which becomes regular Nosferatu if the opponent is close enough.
In general, having light, medium and heavy inputs for Special Attacks would add a lot of debt to Smash. And I'm here for it.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 15, 2020
Messages
185
There has actually been a fair bit of tossing around different characters and debating their merits, likelihoods, etc.

But yeah, it's funny how the majority of the community only gets rowdy when a new game is already revealed, at which point the base roster has been decided...right now would actually be the time to keep pushing for characters but, alas, that's not how human minds work, I guess.
Yeah, it's really weird. People and communities push their favorite characters when the roster already picked makes entire campaigns pointless honesty.

I was thinking For Smash communities should come around to make an event that will help popularity and movement going forward especially Sakurai could literally picking the roster as we speak. I was speaking who had a great one in mind and it would be cool to try it
 

Gengar84

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Yeah, it's really weird. People and communities push their favorite characters when the roster already picked makes entire campaigns pointless honesty.

I was thinking For Smash communities should come around to make an event that will help popularity and movement going forward especially Sakurai could literally picking the roster as we speak. I was speaking who had a great one in mind and it would be cool to try it
I’m in. There are a lot of characters I think would be really fun to see in Smash that I enjoy talking about. It would be nice to have some kind of dedicated place to do that for people that are tired of hearing about mine in this thread.
 

Diddy Kong

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With all that said and done, Impa, Dixie Kong and Isaac from Golden Sun are my most wanted characters. And I do believe they're at least in consideration by Sakurai, so yeah I'd love to see them in.
 

Diddy Kong

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After Kirby and the Forgotten Land, I will honestly be massively disappointed if BWD gets passed up again.
I'm quite sure it won't happen again. Bandana Dee just missed the mark in Ultimate because "Everyone Is Here", and he couldn't hold up to the first party newcomers as K.Rool and Ridley. Incineroar had this special Pokemon slot that decided it's entry, and Isabelle is a clone.

If Ultimate followed protocol of Smash 4 by selecting newcomers, I think we would have had Bandana Dee, and probably a Zelda newcomer in the form of one of the Champions too. I'd also expect either Dixie or Cranky over King K.Rool, possibly Pauline as a Mario newcomer too. Anything else I wouldn't really know.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Messages
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I’m in. There are a lot of characters I think would be really fun to see in Smash that I enjoy talking about. It would be nice to have some kind of dedicated place to do that for people that are tired of hearing about mine in this thread.
That's great because this project involves modding
 
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JustPlainDan

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Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
76
In terms of deluxe Mii costumes I’d love to see for Smash 6, all I can think of is Brawler outfits of Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth with the Steel Samurai theme, along with Scorpion & Sub-Zero with the classic MK song.

I’m interested to see what you all have in mind, because that’s all I’ve got.
 

Perkilator

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I'm quite sure it won't happen again. Bandana Dee just missed the mark in Ultimate because "Everyone Is Here", and he couldn't hold up to the first party newcomers as K.Rool and Ridley. Incineroar had this special Pokemon slot that decided it's entry, and Isabelle is a clone.
Tbh, I would’ve gotten rid of the Plant for BWD’s sake
 

DarthEnderX

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Messages
6,135
Yeah, it's really weird. People and communities push their favorite characters when the roster already picked makes entire campaigns pointless honesty.
Completely agree. It sucks that character request threads are only open on SmashBoards whem they don't matter.

In terms of deluxe Mii costumes I’d love to see for Smash 6

I’m interested to see what you all have in mind, because that’s all I’ve got.
Deluxe or not, my Mii wishlist:

Swordfighter:
Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden] (if not getting as Fighter)
Crono [Chrono Trigger] (if not getting as Fighter)
Frog [Chrono Trigger]
Randi [Secret of Mana]
FF1 Fighter [Final Fantasy]
FF1 Ninja [Final Fantasy]
Majima [Yakuza]
Vergil [Devil May Cry]
Kuros [Wizards & Warriors]
The Knight [Hollow Knight]

Brawler:
Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom] (if not getting as Fighters)
Kiryu [Yakuza] (if not getting as Fighter)
King Hippo [Punch-Out]
Billy Lee/Jimmy Lee [Double Dragon]
Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
Robo [Chrono Trigger]
FF1 Monk [Final Fantasy]

Gunner:
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra] (if not getting as Fighters)
Quote [Cave Story]
Jason [Blaster Master]

Mage:
Ashley [WarioWare] (converted from Swordfighter)
Viridi [Kid Icarus] (converted from Swordfighter)
Lip [Panel de Pon] (converted from Swordfighter)
Veronica [Dragon Quest] (converted from Swordfighter)
Aerith [Final Fantasy] (converted from Swordfighter)
Eggplant Wizard [Kid Icarus]
Kamek [Super Mario Bros.]
Reimu [Touhou]
FF1 Black Mage [Final Fantasy]
FF1 White Mage [Final Fantasy]
Magus [Chrono Trigger]
 
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Diddy Kong

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Character speculation is essentially a catch-22. Before the next Smash game is announced makes the most sense, but the interest, user numbers, and overall base points to work off of in theorizing fighters only effectively happens after such an announcement.
Which is probably why they held the ballot, and results would be used for future Smash games. Of course this directly lead to Ultimate, but we didn't even know. But we see it's effects still, and probably in the future too.

Which makes me all the more curious... What where the actual results? Yeah Sora had the most votes, King K.Rool, Ridley, Isabelle, the veterans, the Belmonts must've placed well too, but there got to be a few characters among them we haven't seen yet.
 

dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
678
After Kirby and the Forgotten Land, I will honestly be massively disappointed if BWD gets passed up again.
I'm quite sure it won't happen again. Bandana Dee just missed the mark in Ultimate because "Everyone Is Here", and he couldn't hold up to the first party newcomers as K.Rool and Ridley. Incineroar had this special Pokemon slot that decided it's entry, and Isabelle is a clone.

If Ultimate followed protocol of Smash 4 by selecting newcomers, I think we would have had Bandana Dee, and probably a Zelda newcomer in the form of one of the Champions too. I'd also expect either Dixie or Cranky over King K.Rool, possibly Pauline as a Mario newcomer too. Anything else I wouldn't really know.
That's not factoring in the chance that Sakurai may still show preferential treatment of his own contributions of the series to the continued exclusion of BWD.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
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That's not factoring in the chance that Sakurai may still show preferential treatment of his own contributions of the series to the continued exclusion of BWD.
Dude. Even if that was the case Bandanna Dee is currently the most popular character request in Japan so that probably counters potential Sakurai Bias like what happened with Ridley being too big.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Kirby 64 will reach the Nintendo Switch Online on the 20th of this month, Adeleine was featured in several illustrated books of the series "Itsudemo Kirby" which are being translated in every language and slowly uploaded on Youtube by Nintendo's official channels as read-along stories under the name of "It's Kirby Time" (Adeleine even has one of those stories dedicated specifically to her, and they recently made a new book with Ribbon as well), and now these exist:



In the meanwhile, those two characters didn't even get a .png in Smash Bros.
 

dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
678
Dude. Even if that was the case Bandanna Dee is currently the most popular character request in Japan so that probably counters potential Sakurai Bias like what happened with Ridley being too big.
He is one of the most popular requests in Japan, I don't know what your source is that he is the most popular request in Japan.

Not that popularity at the current moment is particularly useful anyway for anyone. I doubt they're surveilling during this period of pronounced inactivity. Though I don't doubt his will continue to when it could matter again.

And it's not apples and apples here anyway. Those two characters were excluded for different reasons, and the ballot is allegedly what got Sakurai to finally come around on Ridley, despite demand spanning back to Melee. Popularity is not a trump card that dissolves all barriers, it just gives the character a better chance to overcome them.
 

JOJONumber691

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Messages
1,360
He is one of the most popular requests in Japan, I don't know what your source is that he is the most popular request in Japan.

Not that popularity at the current moment is particularly useful anyway for anyone. I doubt they're surveilling during this period of pronounced inactivity. Though I don't doubt his will continue to when it could matter again.

And it's not apples and apples here anyway. Those two characters were excluded for different reasons, and the ballot is allegedly what got Sakurai to finally come around on Ridley, despite demand spanning back to Melee. Popularity is not a trump card that dissolves all barriers, it just gives the character a better chance to overcome them.
This article. It did a poll and Bandanna Dee was second… after Sora who got in. So Bandanna Dee is now the most popular request in Japan. https://s.inside-games.jp/article/2021/07/26/133601.html
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,971
While there's no real way to know for sure, but it could be that Sakurai simply hasn't thought of moveset/style for BWD he's satisfied with. Given he once believed Ridley was too big, it could be that something similar is going on with Bandana Dee; perhaps with the use of spear simply not standing out enough to him and the fan demand just not being enough and/or in the ideal circumstance to change his mind quite yet.
 

chocolatejr9

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Sep 30, 2018
Messages
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Kirby 64 will reach the Nintendo Switch Online on the 20th of this month, Adeleine was featured in several illustrated books of the series "Itsudemo Kirby" which are being translated in every language and slowly uploaded on Youtube by Nintendo's official channels as read-along stories under the name of "It's Kirby Time" (Adeleine even has one of those stories dedicated specifically to her, and they recently made a new book with Ribbon as well), and now these exist:



In the meanwhile, those two characters didn't even get a .png in Smash Bros.
TBF, they only recently became prominent again. I didn't see interest for them kick off until Star Allies... just like Marx, weirdly enough.
 

Gengar84

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
2,946
I personally think that Bandana Dee, Waluigi, and Octoling all have very good chances of appearing in the next Smash game, to the point that I’d be a bit shocked if they’re still missing. None of them are among my most wanted characters but I’d be happy to see them all and I know they all have a ton of support.
 

dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
678
This article. It did a poll and Bandanna Dee was second… after Sora who got in. So Bandanna Dee is now the most popular request in Japan. https://s.inside-games.jp/article/2021/07/26/133601.html
Yes...... a poll just shy of 3k is helpful to gauge trends, but to declare a uniform most popular character in the whole country, it falls a bit short. BWD only has 147 votes, and he's in second. It's quite the fraction of the total picture. Reddit has conducted polls of over 50k before, and that placed Sora, the most popular character on the ballot, at fifth. Isaac got ten thousand more votes than the next character, and he didn't even make it as playable.

So really, polls, again, are only useful in broad strokes. Even when they have tens of thousands of votes. Let alone the first place character only getting 377 votes, like the one you linked to.

This is all a bit neither here nor there though, since... even if demand was important currently, BWD is undoubtably popular, but no so singularly popular that I would be able to confidently dismiss the Sakurai factor. There hasn't really been a situation comparable to this before, which justifies not taking the possibility of personal interference off the table. Ridley was a question of feasibility. This is a question of bias. BWD has always been able to work, and has been popular for a while now too.
 

Sid-cada

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Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,706
That's not factoring in the chance that Sakurai may still show preferential treatment of his own contributions of the series to the continued exclusion of BWD.
I think Forgotten Land will be too big to ignore, though?

Forgotten Land is already the 4th best selling Kirby game of all time, despite being only out for about over a month. At 2.65 million sales at the end of March, Forgotten Land has sold more than Kirby's previous outing also on the Switch, Star Allies, got in an entire year, at 2.56 million, despite being out for only 6 days at the time this number was reported.

Assuming that current series sales are on track, it's well within the possibility of being the best selling game of all time. At the very least, I feel comfortable saying it will beat Star Allies, which would place it at 2nd best selling, with Star Allies current sales of 3.42 million, only beaten by the original Kirby's Dreamland at 5.13 million.

Considering that this is also a sort-of Breath of the Wild-esque reimagining of the series, with radical changes to the main series formula, it's hard to imagine ignoring the game and not getting major backlash due to how obvious it would be at that point. Sakurai has already felt the need to defend himself for the backlash Great Cave Offensive got with him revealing plans for an Epic Yarn stage, back in the Smash For days; imagine how bad the backlash would be if you ignore the first mainline 3D entry in the series.

Now, admittedly, this is just justification for new Kirby content in general, not specifically for BWD. However, he appears to be a key marketing tool for the game. I'm sure you remembered when he got spotlighted in the second commercial for the game, given the discussion that caused. but there was a 3D walkthrough even at Universal Studios to promote Forgotten Land, and BWD was placed next to Kirby right at the entrance.

While Sakurai Bias does exist at least to some extent, ignoring Forgotten Land would be a huge misstep that cannot be interpreted in any way other than bias when Sakurai could at least hide under excuses in the past. Bandana Waddle Dee would be the best choice for a new character for this game, at the very least.
 

JOJONumber691

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Messages
1,360
Yes...... a poll just shy of 3k is helpful to gauge trends, but to declare a uniform most popular character in the whole country, it falls a bit short. BWD only has 147 votes, and he's in second. It's quite the fraction of the total picture. Reddit has conducted polls of over 50k before, and that placed Sora, the most popular character on the ballot, at fifth. Isaac got ten thousand more votes than the next character, and he didn't even make it as playable.

So really, polls, again, are only useful in broad strokes. Even when they have tens of thousands of votes. Let alone the first place character only getting 377 votes, like the one you linked to.

This is all a bit neither here nor there though, since... even if demand was important currently, BWD is undoubtably popular, but no so singularly popular that I would be able to confidently dismiss the Sakurai factor. There hasn't really been a situation comparable to this before, which justifies not taking the possibility of personal interference off the table. Ridley was a question of feasibility. This is a question of bias. BWD has always been able to work, and has been popular for a while now too.
Well, it’s a better statistic than anything else I could find. Also Sora got in so obviously things are a bit skewed. You never know, but if you really think that bias is in effect, then why isn’t Ayumi Tachibana or Meteos in the game as fighters?
 

dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
678
I think Forgotten Land will be too big to ignore, though?

Forgotten Land is already the 4th best selling Kirby game of all time, despite being only out for about over a month. At 2.65 million sales at the end of March, Forgotten Land has sold more than Kirby's previous outing also on the Switch, Star Allies, got in an entire year, at 2.56 million, despite being out for only 6 days at the time this number was reported.

Assuming that current series sales are on track, it's well within the possibility of being the best selling game of all time. At the very least, I feel comfortable saying it will beat Star Allies, which would place it at 2nd best selling, with Star Allies current sales of 3.42 million, only beaten by the original Kirby's Dreamland at 5.13 million.

Considering that this is also a sort-of Breath of the Wild-esque reimagining of the series, with radical changes to the main series formula, it's hard to imagine ignoring the game and not getting major backlash due to how obvious it would be at that point. Sakurai has already felt the need to defend himself for the backlash Great Cave Offensive got with him revealing plans for an Epic Yarn stage, back in the Smash For days; imagine how bad the backlash would be if you ignore the first mainline 3D entry in the series.

Now, admittedly, this is just justification for new Kirby content in general, not specifically for BWD. However, he appears to be a key marketing tool for the game. I'm sure you remembered when he got spotlighted in the second commercial for the game, given the discussion that caused. but there was a 3D walkthrough even at Universal Studios to promote Forgotten Land, and BWD was placed next to Kirby right at the entrance.

While Sakurai Bias does exist at least to some extent, ignoring Forgotten Land would be a huge misstep that cannot be interpreted in any way other than bias when Sakurai could at least hide under excuses in the past. Bandana Waddle Dee would be the best choice for a new character for this game, at the very least.
Well, you use BotW itself as an example, a title more successful than Forgotten Land many times over, and all that game got was a stage. Same with Odyssey. I'm sure Forgotten Land will get content. Hopefully more than the fairly scant amount non-Sakurai Kirby titles usually get. And there have been plenty of successful Kirby games since Sakurai's tenure but we keep getting stuff from Super Star. That game didn't even sell that much.

But we shouldn't pretend like Forgotten Land is BWD's game and there aren't already three Forgotten Land characters already on the roster. It's not like FE, where they require a newcomer because Marth probably won't cut it for representing the newest title. Series with static casts are perpetually represented, even if the entire cast isn't there. If you think about it, it's not like BWD represents that game better than Kirby.

A stage would actually function best to represent that exact game, since the main cast recurs.

But it's not a matter of success that's giving BWD a hard time anyway. Kirby games have always been successful enough to keep the series going. It's not a matter of success or prevalence or moveset potential or popularity. It's just a matter of Sakurai. And that can't be assumed, we'll just have to see how he reconciles what has been, so far, a very undeniable preference for his own work against a character that otherwise has all the merits for inclusion.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
288
I don't understand how Sakurai could be biased against BWD for supposedly not being his creation when he debuted in Super Star. So not only is Sakurai the creator of the Waddle Dee but also the one responsible for throwing a bandana on one. Sure I guess the moveset would be pulled from games that Sakurai didn't have anything to do with but the character itself is his creation through and through.

The Kirby series has just been neglected like many other first-party series in the game including Star Fox, formerly Metroid (though I think more Metroid is justifiable like Sylux and Ravenbeak) and most notoriously Zelda. Kirby's not special in that regard and I doubt Sakurai has some deeply unconscious bias against Kirby games he didn't have any involvement in. On slightly different note I would love a Dyna Blade Assist Trophy.
 
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Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,378
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Ah yeah the Sakurai bias vs Bandana Dee discussion again, I honestly just think the character was unlucky with Smash 4 and Ultimate, not unlike say, Dixie and Impa.

And I have to agree that Zelda needs a newcomer harder than Kirby, but Kirby is up there too. I honestly see Dixie, Impa and Bandana Dee in a similar situation, Bandana Dee is just more the obvious choice of his franchise. I could see Dixie being overlooked for Cranky especially, and Impa being set aside for a Champion or whoever else from BotW2.

This is why I wouldn't mind a Smash Ultimate Deluxe with newcomers that are build up from existent characters on the roster, that would increase the chances of Dixie and Impa more. I could live with them being semi clones, or Ken styled Echoes.
 
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