Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[BuckleyTim]

So, what are your opinion on the 3 piece item of the legendary Dragoon (added since brawl) and/or Daybreak (added in Smash 4 after Kid Icarus Uprising) weapon? Both are made by Sakurai.

To me, They're kinda in the same boat as ATs and such where i feel like they spawn way too frequently under normal conditions. They probably were that way in brawl and 4 but with my Keen Gamer Adult Awareness it feels like one or the other spawns once per match in Ultimate. Takes away a lot of the specialness since they almost always in play.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

For Ganondorf, I do prefer his Flame Choke and his Brawl/4 Smash Attacks, and his attacks felt more satisfying to land in Brawl/4. However, he was definitely better when he wasn't hyper slow. I prefer his Melee and Ultimate speed, but his Brawl/4 attacks. The Swords just didn't really do it for me. Not that I don't appreciate the idea either. Funnily enough, I'm much better at using him in 4 than in Ultimate. To the point I can give a lot of "good" characters still some trouble(albeit, the tourneys are pretty low end).

I preferred Bowser as a kaiju too. I would be good with Giga Bowser or Dry Bowser being a clone that is more based around the Melee moveset, though(notably, this is the case in Smash 4. Giga Bowser, when you play as him, retains his Melee/Brawl moves and animations, a really cool thing). Incidentally, Giga Bowser has so many changes that he'd work only as a semi-clone(especially if using the Melee/Brawl animations and moves), while Dry Bowser could actually work as a clone or echo.

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Project m Ex remix has the best of both worlds for this.

Normal bowser is mostly how he was in Melee while dry bowser is closer to bowser in Ultimate except for a few animations.

And you can play as Giga bowser as his own full character too lol.

 

[Gengar84]

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Project m Ex remix has the best of both worlds for this.

Normal bowser is mostly how he was in Melee while dry bowser is closer to bowser in Ultimate except for a few animations.

And you can play as Giga bowser as his own full character too lol.

I feel like it should be the opposite just based on appearances. Dry Bowser looks like the one that would want the more brutal looking attacks where normal Bowser makes more sense with the goofier approach from Ultimate.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like it should be the opposite just based on appearances. Dry Bowser looks like the one that would want the more brutal looking attacks where normal Bowser makes more sense with the goofier approach from Ultimate.

This.

The undead one should be the metal-as-**** one.

 

[Perkilator]

My idea for Dry Bowser as an Echo was always this:

• Based on Bowser's Melee appearance
• Stronger, faster, and lighter

 

[Lukingordex]

I'm guessing if Crash became a fighter they'd probably go for something more basic for his victory theme like a remix of his warped theme. But man, it would be soooo nice if they went for the rustlanders trophy presentation theme from CTR nitro fueled starting at 0:06 from this video.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I feel like it should be the opposite just based on appearances. Dry Bowser looks like the one that would want the more brutal looking attacks where normal Bowser makes more sense with the goofier approach from Ultimate.

That’s true I agree. But still this is the best balance between both movesets we have in a smash game/mod at the moment.

 

[Oracle Link]

I wonder if smash 6 is going to continue being unfair with its newcomers?
Like honestly neither mario, pokemon nor fire emblem should get one tbh! (Atleast not many)
Like all of them have 8+ meanwhile kirby +zelda have 9 if youre genourous!

And heck there are mario and pokemon characters i wanna see (cyndaquil my beloved) but like kirby and zelda should get 2+ newcomers first!
Heck throw in a new ac, pikmin, earthbound etc. Rep first before doing too much of the big 3!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wonder if smash 6 is going to continue being unfair with its newcomers?
Like honestly neither mario, pokemon nor fire emblem should get one tbh! (Atleast not many)
Like all of them have 8+ meanwhile kirby +zelda have 9 if youre genourous!

That's correct, but do keep in mind that Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem will not be keeping all 8 characters, so in reality you're looking at something like 4-6 + a newcomer assuming they get one.

 

[Dukefire]

If Sakurai would build Crash Bandicoot's look, he could either take his recent outing from It's about Time or somewhat create a composite appearance from his titles over the years. Though, titles like Wrath of Cortex is........more like rewritten since Crash Bandicoot It's about Time gave a nod to the other titles.

Of course, they cannot have Crash without the Crash Dance.

 

[NotGenerico]

That's related to what i was trying to say earlier, for plenty of people smash bros is about the roster and the gameplay is a bonus, thus cuts can break the game for them doesn't matter what improvements there is, there's a reason why Ultimate Deluxe is a popular request, a lot of people don't care about the gameplay, stages, modes, items, new mechanics, reworks, new artstyle....they just want to see the roster grow with no cuts, whatsoever.
I'm on the Smash 6 side as i'm more of a gameplay guy, but people on the Smash 6 side needs to understand that not everyone cares about the series a fresh coat of paint every 6-7 years and just want to see the roster grow, people have diferent mindsets.
Same thing happened with Mario Kart, some people wanteed to stick with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and wanted to see the game expand, while others wanted to move on and have a coat of fresh paint with MK9.

I feel like Smash Bros has become something similar to the DBZ Sparking games, where the ridiculously huge roster has become one of the biggest draws to many people.

 

[Gengar84]

If Crash makes it in, I’m just hoping his intro trailer is a play off the old PS1 commercial where he called out Mario at Nintendo HQ. I’d love for them to do that again with live actors in mascot suits and for Mario to actually come out this time and brawl. Kind of like a transition between the Crash Bandicoot commercial and the Smash 64 commercial. Crash would be perfect for a Mii costume too since that commercial was just a guy in a costume.

 

[Oracle Link]

That's correct, but do keep in mind that Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem will not be keeping all 8 characters, so in reality you're looking at something like 4-6 + a newcomer assuming they get one.

I dont think it'll be under 6 across the board but yeah pokemon and fire emblem will probably recieve atleast 1 cut!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Crash makes it in, I’m just hoping his intro trailer is a play off the old PS1 commercial where he called out Mario at Nintendo HQ. I’d love for them to do that again with live actors in mascot suits and for Mario to actually come out this time and brawl. He’d be perfect for a Mii costume too since that commercial was just a guy in a costume.

It would be so funny if they melded it with the ad for Super Smash Bros. where the mascots beat each other up. Mario wins the brawl, and Crash steps up to challenge him.

 

[Gengar84]

It would be so funny if they melded it with the ad for Super Smash Bros. where the mascots beat each other up. Mario wins the brawl, and Crash steps up to challenge him.

Yeah that would be perfect since they were both live action commercials with people in mascot costumes. It would be a fun callback to both commercials that introduced each franchise.

 

[Dukefire]

Yeah that would be perfect since they were both live action commercials with people in mascot costumes. It would be a fun callback to both commercials that introduced each franchise.

It would fit Crash Bandicoot as his commercials and the series itself is like a wild ride of Wumpa Island.

 

[Gengar84]

It would fit Crash Bandicoot as his commercials and the series itself is like a wild ride of Wumpa Island.

Oh I didn’t realize they were still using that mascot suit for the commercials. That’s pretty funny.

 

[RileyXY1]

If Crash makes it in, I’m just hoping his intro trailer is a play off the old PS1 commercial where he called out Mario at Nintendo HQ. I’d love for them to do that again with live actors in mascot suits and for Mario to actually come out this time and brawl. Kind of like a transition between the Crash Bandicoot commercial and the Smash 64 commercial. Crash would be perfect for a Mii costume too since that commercial was just a guy in a costume.

Yeah. I can see that. I also had the idea of the reveal trailer featuring a bunch of actors dressed in giant mascot suits of various playable characters in the game fighting each other before Crash comes out with the iconic megaphone and challenges Mario. Besides Mario, I also think that Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Pikachu, Luigi, Ness, Lucario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man, Greninja, Inkling, and Isabelle should appear.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Crash makes it in, I’m just hoping his intro trailer is a play off the old PS1 commercial where he called out Mario at Nintendo HQ. I’d love for them to do that again with live actors in mascot suits and for Mario to actually come out this time and brawl. Kind of like a transition between the Crash Bandicoot commercial and the Smash 64 commercial. Crash would be perfect for a Mii costume too since that commercial was just a guy in a costume.

While this would be amazing, it entirely depends on whether or not that commercial is well-known in Japan.

If it's not, chances are we might just get a standard trailer but that would still be fine because we'd get the Crash Dance out of it.

 

[Dukefire]

So, I know themes for each smash iteration is something most don't usually focus on. If the next smash title is announced, what potential theme could be present?

Smash 64: Child's imagination soars with life on toys fighting.
Melee: Same as 64, now moved on with trophies
Brawl: battle against Taboo while growing up. Save the world from utter darkness of the void in Subspace Emissary.
Smash 4: Inner turmoil within the mental world of one's self. Master Core and Master Fortress (ONLY for Wii U version at Intensity 9.0).
Ultimate: Battle of Light and Dark. Ended with both sides balanced and life to move on. Like us still growing as time passes.
???: ???

 

[Watuna4343]

That's related to what i was trying to say earlier, for plenty of people smash bros is about the roster and the gameplay is a bonus, thus cuts can break the game for them doesn't matter what improvements there is, there's a reason why Ultimate Deluxe is a popular request, a lot of people don't care about the gameplay, stages, modes, items, new mechanics, reworks, new artstyle....they just want to see the roster grow with no cuts, whatsoever.
I'm on the Smash 6 side as i'm more of a gameplay guy, but people on the Smash 6 side needs to understand that not everyone cares about the series a fresh coat of paint every 6-7 years and just want to see the roster grow, people have diferent mindsets.
Same thing happened with Mario Kart, some people wanteed to stick with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and wanted to see the game expand, while others wanted to move on and have a coat of fresh paint with MK9.

The big, and I mean HUGE difference with Ultimate Deluxe is that... Smash Bros isn't Mario Kart. People have a tendency to conflate these 2 when they've never been one and the same. An Ultimate Deluxe is not the same to an 8 Deluxe situation with the biggest reason by far being that Mario Kart 8 was in the Wii U and was a flop sales wise just by virtue of being in that console. The vast majority of people who played 8 Deluxe on the Switch didn't play/didn't have the original 8 on the Wii U so to them it was a brand new game. And I'd argue to this day, many people have no idea that 8 Deluxe was originally a different game on the Wii U. Ultimate is not the same. Ultimate was one of the best selling games on the Switch point blank. Everyone who wanted to play Smash Ultimate has already gotten one (or at least the vast majority). It was anything but a flop. So by going through the effort of doing an Ultimate Deluxe, one is basically charging the same game for 60-70 bucks. And contrary to what the people online cry about because they somehow got attachment issues and can't handle a Smash game with cuts (as if it was the first time), the overwhelming majority of people aren't gonna pay that price for a game they already own and then pay some more for some extra DLC. And that's on top of the Switch 2 being backwards compatible, meaning that the people who want the large roster can still play it. An Ultimate Deluxe is basically asking to be a flop any way you slice it. (And also, whether people like it or not, even if the next Smash doesn't cut characters, a future Smash will have to. They can't just keep adding forever. The more they delay the inevitable, the more it's gonna come with backlash. Switch 2 is literally the perfect opportunity to make a new Smash with a smaller roster given that it's just 1 game away from Ultimate instead of 2-3 and the alternative option is there for those who want it)

 

[RileyXY1]

The big, and I mean HUGE difference with Ultimate Deluxe is that... Smash Bros isn't Mario Kart. People have a tendency to conflate these 2 when they've never been one and the same. An Ultimate Deluxe is not the same to an 8 Deluxe situation with the biggest reason by far being that Mario Kart 8 was in the Wii U and was a flop sales wise just by virtue of being in that console. The vast majority of people who played 8 Deluxe on the Switch didn't play/didn't have the original 8 on the Wii U so to them it was a brand new game. And I'd argue to this day, many people have no idea that 8 Deluxe was originally a different game on the Wii U. Ultimate is not the same. Ultimate was one of the best selling games on the Switch point blank. Everyone who wanted to play Smash Ultimate has already gotten one (or at least the vast majority). It was anything but a flop. So by going through the effort of doing an Ultimate Deluxe, one is basically charging the same game for 60-70 bucks. And contrary to what the people online cry about because they somehow got attachment issues and can't handle a Smash game with cuts (as if it was the first time), the overwhelming majority of people isn't gonna pay that price for a game they already own and then pay some more for some extra DLC. And that's on top of the Switch 2 being backwards compatible, meaning that the people who want the large roster can still play it. An Ultimate Deluxe is basically asking to be a flop any way you slice it. (And also, whether people like it or not, even if the next Smash doesn't cut characters, a future Smash will have to. They can't just keep adding forever. The more they delay the inevitable, the more it's gonna come with backlash. Switch 2 is literally the perfect opportunity to make a new Smash with a smaller roster given that it's just 1 game away from Ultimate instead of 2-3 and the alternative option is there for those who want it)

Yep. I agree, full stop. I believe that an Ultimate Deluxe is not the way forward for pretty much the same reasons you say. The cons far outweigh the pros here. Porting Switch games to the Switch 2 is not the same as porting Wii U games to the Switch. Unlike the Wii U, the Switch was actually a massive success, and Smash Ultimate was one of the best selling games on that system. You would essentially be telling people to pay more for a game they already have. It would also lead to even bigger sacrifices when it comes to new content. Because they focused so much on bring back every character and nearly every stage there wasn't enough time to add new characters and stages. At launch Ultimate only had 11 newcomers, 6 of which were clones, and only 4 new stages. Ultimate Deluxe might have to sacrifice even more new content simply due to how many more characters they have to add into the game thanks to Ultimate's DLC. I also agree that a massive roster cut is inevitable. Smash's roster simply can't grow indefinitely because the bigger the roster the harder it is to balance. It's much easier for overpowered characters to slip through the cracks in larger rosters like Meta Knight in Brawl, Bayonetta in Smash 4, and Steve in Ultimate. Sakurai himself also said that Everyone is Here is something that's unlikely to ever happen again, and I believe it because it happening now was a miracle.

 

[fogbadge]

So, I know themes for each smash iteration is something most don't usually focus on. If the next smash title is announced, what potential theme could be present?

Smash 64: Child's imagination soars with life on toys fighting.
Melee: Same as 64, now moved on with trophies
Brawl: battle against Taboo while growing up. Save the world from utter darkness of the void in Subspace Emissary.
Smash 4: Inner turmoil within the mental world of one's self. Master Core and Master Fortress (ONLY for Wii U version at Intensity 9.0).
Ultimate: Battle of Light and Dark. Ended with both sides balanced and life to move on. Like us still growing as time passes.
???: ???

Perhaps they should lean into the creativity and destruction dynamic of the master and crazy hands

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ultimate Deluxe might have to sacrifice even more new content simply due to how many more characters they have to add into the game thanks to Ultimate's DLC.

I'm also against an Ultimate Deluxe but that is incredibly bad logic.

How would this affect the number of newcomers when the Ultimate DLC is already made and already exists?

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm also against an Ultimate Deluxe but that is incredibly bad logic.

How would this affect the number of newcomers when the Ultimate DLC is already made and already exists?

It's simply down to dev time. The more time is spent on retooling veterans the less time that can be spent on newcomers, and this is shown with Ultimate's base roster and how little newcomers there were compared to past games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's simply down to dev time. The more time is spent on retooling veterans the less time that can be spent on newcomers, and this is shown with Ultimate's base roster and how little newcomers there were compared to past games.

There is a vast difference between reworking Melee and Brawl assets to work in Ultimate's engine and... using the files they already have for Ultimate for a port of Ultimate.

Heck, Ultimate reused Smash 4's assets to save on time and make EIH possible in the first place. And what's a more flagrant example of asset reuse than literally porting a game?

It wouldn't take three years to port Ultimate to Switch 2. I'm not saying it's just a copy-paste either but when Sakurai explicitly says asset reuse save time, you'd think a game that is 100% asset reuse would be the biggest time saver of all, right?

 

[Dukefire]

Perhaps they should lean into the creativity and destruction dynamic of the master and crazy hands

They could, Master and Crazy Hand's abilities were only seen in Classic mode and World of Light with us controlling Master Hand before the final battle.

 

[fogbadge]

They could, Master and Crazy Hand's abilities were only seen in Classic mode and World of Light with us controlling Master Hand before the final battle.

whatever that video was I’m afraid it’s not working

edit: nvm it’s working now

 

[Gengar84]

I think the way forward I’d like to see is to try to keep the focus of having a large an exciting roster while not feeling obligated to keep doing EiH every game. Some cuts are fine as long as the replacements are at least as exciting. I can understand cutting some of the less popular or prominent characters for more exciting options. Hopefully we’ll keep roughly the same roster size as Ultimate’s base game for this one with an extended DLC cycle lasting for the life of the Switch 2 so we can end up with something even bigger and better than Ultimate once everything is said and done.

I know sales aren’t everything and there’s more to the story than just roster vs modes but from what I’ve seen, Smash Ultimate is far and away the best selling Smash game ever despite lacking great single player. This was partially due to the Switch selling so well but I think it at least suggests that the roster is a big part of the appeal of the series now. Melee and Brawl had the best single player content in my opinion but sold less than half of Ultimate.

Melee - Roughly 7 million copies sold
Brawl - Roughly 13 million copies sold
Ultimate - Roughly 35 million copies sold

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know they probably won't add it because Yoshi's stages are all sunshine and happy daisies, but I really want to see the next game have a remix of Bowser, or even just the original. Even if they cutsiefied it, fighting to this song would go so hard.

EDIT: I'd love that boss arena as a stage as well, though it would be difficult to find music that fit there. lol

 

[AreJay25]

I know they probably won't add it because Yoshi's stages are all sunshine and happy daisies, but I really want to see the next game have a remix of Bowser, or even just the original. Even if they cutsiefied it, fighting to this song would go so hard.

Honestly I'm surprised this song HASN'T gotten a remix yet outside of, like, one small section in the Obstacle Course remix. Feels like it would have been a perfect choice for Ultimate considering the higher emphasis on rock arrangements.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Smash Ultimate is far and away the best selling Smash game ever despite lacking great single player.

Well I liked it... I though spirits and WoL was cool and I think Classic mode was in its best version in Ult, being like an Arcade mode with specific routes. Although if you're talking about more side modes like Home-Run Contest or Break the Targets, I'll concede on that.

 

[Gengar84]

Well I liked it... I though spirits and WoL was cool and I think Classic mode was in its best version in Ult, being like an Arcade mode with specific routes. Although if you're talking about more side modes like Home-Run Contest or Break the Targets, I'll concede on that.

It was certainly a step up from Smash 4 Wii U but I personally didn’t care for WoL as much as Melee’s Adventure mode or Brawl’s SSE. Those games also had better side modes as you mentioned. Ultimate did have a great Stage Builder at least though Brawl’s was still better in ways. Either way, I don’t think the single player was really the selling point of Ultimate in the same way exciting roster reveals for the Fighter’s Passes were and bringing every character back.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It should be noted that while single-player was never a reason people bought Smash (it's a crossover game, it was always about the roster since day 1), it would not exactly be a good showing if Smash didn't try to do something for it either, given that all of the biggest hitters in the fighting game genre have at least tried to give decent single-player offerings for people in recent years.

If all we get at the next Smash's launch is Classic Mode, it wouldn't really hurt sales but it would certainly hurt people's thoughts about the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My idea for Dry Bowser as an Echo was always this:

• Based on Bowser's Melee appearance
• Stronger, faster, and lighter

I'd want him exactly the same actually. Echo wouldn't also even be necessary, an alternative costume would be fine. After all, this is still Bowser. Right? I mean last time I seen this version in an actual platformer or mainline Mario game was a version of New Super Mario Bros.

 

[The Prankster 16]

It should be noted that while single-player was never a reason people bought Smash (it's a crossover game, it was always about the roster since day 1), it would not exactly be a good showing if Smash didn't try to do something for it either, given that all of the biggest hitters in the fighting game genre have at least tried to give decent single-player offerings for people in recent years.

If all we get at the next Smash's launch is Classic Mode, it wouldn't really hurt sales but it would certainly hurt people's thoughts about the game.

Yeah, especially if Nintendo wants to get a larger audience for the Switch 2. So many streamers will get a fighting game, play through the story mode and maybe play it online for a bit, but then forget about it in a month. Adding a robust Campaign, keeping the Ultimate formula for Classic, and having a variety of side modes would do wonders for player retention and exposure. A better online experience would do wonders as well.

 

[Gengar84]

It should be noted that while single-player was never a reason people bought Smash (it's a crossover game, it was always about the roster since day 1), it would not exactly be a good showing if Smash didn't try to do something for it either, given that all of the biggest hitters in the fighting game genre have at least tried to give decent single-player offerings for people in recent years.

If all we get at the next Smash's launch is Classic Mode, it wouldn't really hurt sales but it would certainly hurt people's thoughts about the game.

Agreed. The tricky part is that no one seems to be able to agree on what a good single player means. With all its flaws, SSE is still by far my favorite mode Smash has ever had. A lot of people were pretty negative on it and wished that dev time had gone to the roster and stages instead. WoL was kind of fun for a while but it got old pretty fast for me and I have no desire to ever replay it. It’s hard to find the right balance that makes the most people happy.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Agreed. The tricky part is that no one seems to be able to agree on what a good single player means. With all its flaws, SSE is still by far my favorite mode Smash has ever had. A lot of people were pretty negative on it and wished that dev time had gone to the roster and stages instead. It’s hard to find the right balance that makes the most people happy.

SSE 2 would be impossible anyway because Sakurai's still salty about Brawl cutscenes being leaked. It would be the ideal timeline but it's also unfortunately one that likely won't happen for as long as the man breathes.

But even something like a more complete version of Melee's Adventure Mode would be a good idea.

 

[Gengar84]

SSE 2 would be impossible anyway because Sakurai's still salty about Brawl cutscenes being leaked. It would be the ideal timeline but it's also unfortunately one that likely won't happen for as long as the man breathes.

But even something like a more complete version of Melee's Adventure Mode would be a good idea.

I suppose I could live with that. Though the fact that SSE 2 probably isn’t happening either way makes me want to focus on the stages and roster even more. I don’t think anything they could offer could possibly ever match it. It’s hard to imagine what modes could make up for a drastically smaller roster. I loved Adventure mode but I’m not sure that’s enough to justify so many cuts.

 

[BrawlX10]

So, I know themes for each smash iteration is something most don't usually focus on. If the next smash title is announced, what potential theme could be present?

Smash 64: Child's imagination soars with life on toys fighting.
Melee: Same as 64, now moved on with trophies
Brawl: battle against Taboo while growing up. Save the world from utter darkness of the void in Subspace Emissary.
Smash 4: Inner turmoil within the mental world of one's self. Master Core and Master Fortress (ONLY for Wii U version at Intensity 9.0).
Ultimate: Battle of Light and Dark. Ended with both sides balanced and life to move on. Like us still growing as time passes.
???: ???

I know it's not directly related to what you said, but the themes for me are:

64: Beginning
Melee: Competitiveness
Brawl: Edginess
Smash 4: Quirkiness
Ultimate: Preservation

64 was just the humble beginnings, not much noteworthy nowdays, i guess "simplicity" could also be apropiate.
Melee is the competitive darling, even if it was mostly because of glitches and wasn't intended by developers.
Brawl was the game that tried to be edgy and dark, giving it a interesting art style, very late 2000s.
Smash 4 was the one that tried to make everything as quirky and unique as possible (weird target blast, weird classic mode, lots of gimmcky stages, custom specials....etc)
Ultimate was the one that cared about preserving the legacy of the series the most by bringing every fighter and almost every stage back.