Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Prankster 16]

Oooh, since we are going to the topic of the Legend of Zelda I have to give a hot take of an opinion - I think the new Smash game will see a wholly unique Zelda newcomer (as in a non-variant of the main trio) BUT it won't be Impa, Skull Kid, Midna, Tingle etc. I think it'll be a newer character from BOTW onwards and personally? I bet my money on Sidon. I can see Sidon getting in as a sort of Rosalina kind of situation where both were very popular characters from a highly successful game of the previous generation who got in more unexpectedly over the more evergreen or expected newcomers (I mean I wasn't around during Smash 4's days but I can see that Rosalina wasn't exactly expected). I don't think Sidon has such unique potential as Rosalina but I mean like... Trident. It's there waiting to be exploited. But overall I do think that a character like Sidon is not nearly as speculated as the next Zelda newcomer because I think he has a better chance than most of the speculated characters like Impa, Skull Kid etc. (with both having missed their boat imo and the former especially, since I am doing the Super Mario analogues gives strong Toad vibes in terms of 'would've been in already but Sakurai is probably not interested in putting her')

I definitley want a Wild-era Zelda rep and Sidon would probably be the better pick in terms of moveset diversity and popularity, but I really want Urbosa. I recently replayed through Age of Calamity, and I love how her moveset works with the Lightning Gauge that you charge up and then release on strong attacks, and just how fast and aggressive she plays. Also, not related to gameplay, but it'd be really nice to finally get a character with some melanin (that isn't just an alt costume).

 

[Watuna4343]

The hot take here isn't Sidon, its thinking that were getting a Zelda newcomer.
?

Normally yes, but I'd argue Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom left a big impact to just simply pass up

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There's no real rational basis for this, but it's always been hard for imagine one of the BotW champions getting a Smash nod. I guess in my mind it defaults to a 3 Houses situation of them choosing Byleth over an individual House leader. Apples to oranges comparison I know; it's just that my immediate instinct is a Rauru or maybe even a Rhoam showing up if it has to be someone from the newer games.

Same, it's one of those things were you'd have to do all of them or none of them, while i'm sure Zelda fans would like that it would probably annoy everyone else

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

If only there was a recurring character introduced in the BotW/TotK timeline that stands out in all sorts of ways.

If only....

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If only there was a recurring character introduced in the BotW/TotK timeline that stands out in all sorts of ways.

If only....

Honestly, I would pop off for Master Kohga.

Consider me part of the Banana Hype Train

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I remember the BotW champions being campaigned for a lot for Ultimate, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were never even in consideration.

 

[Dinoman96]

Been said 90560956905690560956 times by now but I legitimately just don't think there's any real interest on Sakurai/Nintendo's part to add non-Triforce characters as full blown fighters, and I don't see that changing.

 

[Watuna4343]

But in regards to the BotW champions... Sidon isn't one, Mipha is. I don't see how that would hold him back

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Been said 90560956905690560956 times by now but I legitimately just don't think there's any real interest on Sakurai/Nintendo's part to add non-Triforce characters as full blown fighters, and I don't see that changing.

You may be right but consider the following;

 

[Louie G.]

There's no real rational basis for this, but it's always been hard for imagine one of the BotW champions getting a Smash nod. I guess in my mind it defaults to a 3 Houses situation of them choosing Byleth over an individual House leader. Apples to oranges comparison I know; it's just that my immediate instinct is a Rauru or maybe even a Rhoam showing up if it has to be someone from the newer games.

Honestly, I feel the same way. It feels wrong to give the spotlight to only one of the four Champions or Sages and leave the other three to eat dust.

Not for nothing, and maybe this will have a couple people rolling their eyes at me, but this was the same mentality that made the community gloss over Greninja back in Smash 4. Pokemon Trainer conditioned fans to think rigidly about the way starter Pokemon should be represented in Smash, until that expectation was challenged. I think it's a natural instinct, one that in the back of my mind I still debate with, but on the other hand if one of these characters is tremendously popular and offers fun, unique potential on their own... will they continue to be judged as part of the herd? I don't think Smash limits itself in this particular way, it's just our community oriented compulsion for order and fairness.

To me the aforementioned Rauru embodies much more of the Smash fan's folly - a desperation for someone we can deem plot-important with no strings attached but being short sighted of other factors including just the general buzz around a character individually, their x-factor etc. Rauru may be more strictly important to the game he's from but hardly carries the weight of his popular contemporaries like Sidon or Urbosa, and struggles to see the same kind of love that other plot-important 'one-shot' characters like Skull Kid or Midna continue to see (who as we know, have failed to join sooner as it stands). So I dunno, I personally am not seeing that. I do understand the premise of him as a vessel for Link's TOTK abilities, but this feels too easy and I'm not convinced that he's a character that too many people care a whole lot about outside of this speculation bubble.

As for Byleth, I want to say it was easier to take this angle when developing a character prior to the game's release / alongside its development. Had it been a few years later, I do believe the House Leaders would have been in the conversation. Obviously all of this hinges on speculation but we didn't have that couple year buffer to tell Sakurai that these three are effectively the most popular characters in the series. And this couldn't have been foreseen at the time. But we do have evidence spanning several years now about how Zelda's audience has taken toward a character like Sidon. Again, I get the hesitation but I think the factors are too different here to compare to someone like Byleth.

Also, I'm all for Kohga, I like that idea a lot. But I also believe the likes of Sidon, Urbosa, and whoever else you can make a serious case for here are worth discussion all the same. I recognize it's a tough sell for some but what's the fun of all this if we aren't challenging our preconceptions anyway.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But in regards to the BotW champions... Sidon isn't one, Mipha is. I don't see how that would hold him back

Sidon, Riju, Yunobo, Teba and Tulin tend to be lumped into the "Champions" group when they're part of talks since they're more or less the second generation of Champions... but it also shows people haven't played TotK since they (sans Teba) are given their own group name in that game; Sages.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Been said 90560956905690560956 times by now but I legitimately just don't think there's any real interest on Sakurai/Nintendo's part to add non-Triforce characters as full blown fighters, and I don't see that changing.

The only one with actual potential is Tingle because he has an entire spin off series to pull from and ya'll hated him.

 

[Watuna4343]

Sidon, Riju, Yunobo, Teba and Tulin tend to be lumped into the "Champions" group when they're part of talks since they're more or less the second generation of Champions... but it also shows people haven't played TotK since they (sans Teba) are given their own group name in that game; Sages.

Yeeaah no, I don't see how a fan rule that lumps characters that aren't even lumped in together (Sidon/Sages with the champions etc.) is on Sakurai's mind or that it's any kind of obstacle to not just Sidon but any of these characters....

Been said 90560956905690560956 times by now but I legitimately just don't think there's any real interest on Sakurai/Nintendo's part to add non-Triforce characters as full blown fighters, and I don't see that changing.

Again, BoTW and ToTK were too big to pass up. If these games aren't enough to bring Legend of Zelda a whole new fighter Idk what will be.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only one with actual potential is Tingle because he has an entire spin off series to pull from and ya'll hated him.

Now, don't lump me in with the haters. Tingle is my favorite newcomer choice from the Zelda franchise. I'm disappointed we didn't get any of his spin-offs in the US. Which made our ability to use him in Hyrule Warriors eventually such a great thing. It was his first playable role in the US. It helps Majora's Mask(tied with Link's Awakening(original, not the DX or the remake) are my number 1 Zelda games~

 

[fogbadge]

Now, don't lump me in with the haters. Tingle is my favorite newcomer choice from the Zelda franchise. I'm disappointed we didn't get any of his spin-offs in the US. Which made our ability to use him in Hyrule Warriors eventually such a great thing. It was his first playable role in the US. It helps Majora's Mask(tied with Link's Awakening(original, not the DX or the remake) are my number 1 Zelda games~

you know I’ve got a copy of rosy rupee land. maybe I can sell it to you

I’ll let you know when I’ve decided if I’m joking or not

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

you know I’ve got a copy of rosy rupee land. maybe I can sell it to you

I’ll let you know when I’ve decided if I’m joking or not

I keep an eye on E-Bay, hehe. But thank you~

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, if the CAC aspect of your CAC character is secondary, are the Miis worth having at all?

Yes. They add a ton more franchises with playable content to Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is that had they kept up with Tingle in regular LoZ releases I think he probably would be more heavily in Smash conversations because younger generations would have had less baggage about him, and he would be more thoroughly embraced. The view on him now is much softer than it was 15/20 years ago, but his prominence within the broader Zelda series has become more distant over time and he lacks the qualities of a Skull to keep him as active in the conversation.

 

[SPEN18]

The main thing seemingly turning people off of Rauru is simply that he isn't as popular a character as some of the others. But I don't think that's the factor to put the most weight on for this particular situation...I feel like among the main goals in choosing a BotW/TotK character are promoting and representing what those games are all about, and choosing someone who, ideally, reflects those goals both in the moveset and in their plot role, i.e. someone sort of, for lack of better description, is most "emblematic" of the source material.
While I don't inherently have a problem with choosing favorites among the Champions if there's a good reasoning for favoring one, be that from popularity or otherwise, the Champions being kind of lumped together as a group does hurt them in that regard. And, on that same point, by design they're more or less confined to one specific element or combat niche, which on its own again isn't a problem, but makes them less of a fit from the angle of the character being there specifically to rep the Wild era, more or less all on their own. If there wasn't a more clear option, I'd probably be more willing to ignore it and just go with the fan favorite here, but Rauru is a much more "centralizing" character in the sense that he stands on his own, is thematically less specialized, and is prominent all throughout the story (including, importantly, the beginning parts that all players are guaranteed to see).
Someone like Kohga also feels very unlikely to be the choice. Despite the moveset potential and not being attached to a group of relatively equal peers, he's far too much in the periphery for me to get on board with him. It's way too easy to dump a ton of hours into BotW/TotK and barely encounter him. More major villains have had a tough enough time getting represented in Smash, let alone one as tangential to the main plot as Kohga. The only remotely comparable case we have to Kohga in terms of minor/side villains getting in is, like, Wolf and Dark Pit, and those are of course are only there because they could be clones. Why would Kohga of all characters be the one to break the trend of less-recurring and non-Triforce Zelda characters not making it?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean also if the project plan from 2022 is Smash, TotK wouldn't even get a character. It came out in May 2023, so it'd get like a stage maybe like BotW did in Ultimate. I know Breath of the Wild got a little more than that but still.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean also if the project plan from 2022 is Smash, TotK wouldn't even get a character. It came out in May 2023, so it'd get like a stage maybe like BotW did in Ultimate. I know Breath of the Wild got a little more than that but still.

Good thing Master Kohga came from BotW and had Age of Calamity by then to flesh him out.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Good thing Master Kohga came from BotW and had Age of Calamity by then to flesh him out.

Yeah I just mean like I always see people throw Rauru around but like if the next Smash did start development in 2022, TotK wasn't out yet, so like to use a previous example: If the timing doesn't work out for Alear, it doesn't work out for Rauru lol

Just another example of why I hope the 2022 project plan is NOT Smash and why it feels like too quick of a turnover. Like Ultimate had a quick turnover too, but it only had 6 unique newcomers and only two of them are from the interim years (Inkling and Incineroar).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Been said 90560956905690560956 times by now but I legitimately just don't think there's any real interest on Sakurai/Nintendo's part to add non-Triforce characters as full blown fighters, and I don't see that changing.

I think a lot of Zelda characters have just been low priority, because they felt it made more sense to focus on characters who were the protagonist of their own game or had recurring roles.

I feel like they have less competition at the moment than in previous games, but who knows how many Nintendo newcomers we’ll even get.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I mean also if the project plan from 2022 is Smash, TotK wouldn't even get a character. It came out in May 2023, so it'd get like a stage maybe like BotW did in Ultimate. I know Breath of the Wild got a little more than that but still.

Although the game was already mostly done by early 2022 but it was delayed so it can be polished so it’s possible that they could have seen an earlier build that was more completed compared to BOTW when Ultimate was planned.

Also stuff like Ganondorf having elements taken from TOTK don’t require it being planned when selecting the characters or anything.

 

[Garteam]

I think the notion that a new Zelda character must be from BotW/TotK misses the point of why Zelda hasn't received a non-Triforce user yet: it's tough to justify a choice that isn't Link, Zelda, or Ganon if you don't want to choice to seem arbitrary and dated in the future.

Zelda cycles through supporting characters so quickly that it's hard to justify one over another beyond "they're the most recent one", which only holds up until the next new kid comes along. So, it's better to play it safe and stick to the three faces who appear in consistent roles with consistent designs.

Skull Kid is, IMO, the one character who really seems to have a good chance of breaking this pattern:

• He's still incredibly popular despite being from a game that is over 20 years old now. He's Zelda's second most popular antagonist after Ganon(dorf).
• Majora's Mask is a key piece of Zelda's iconography, being referenced in games like Animal Crossing.
• He's the only Zelda antagonist (who isn't an OC) who was made playable in Cadence of Hyrule, supporting his own DLC pack.
• He was held back for Hyrule Warriors to sell Legends.
• He's received increasing importance in Smash for over a decade. He initially appeared as an assist trophy in Smash for Wii U/3DS, Majora's Mask appeared as DLC in that same game, and he received a DLC costume and the Moon as an additional assist trophy in Ultimate.

I don't know if he's popular enough as a Smash rep or important enough to break us only having Triforce users on his own. However, I think he's easily the most likely choice if Sakurai treated Zelda like Castlevania, tallying all the requests for characters from the series and adding him as the Zelda character that would satisfy the most fans.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Although the game was already mostly done by early 2022 but it was delayed so it can be polished so it’s possible that they could have seen an earlier build that was more completed compared to BOTW when Ultimate was planned.

Also stuff like Ganondorf having elements taken from TOTK don’t require it being planned when selecting the characters or anything.

That's true, especially about Ganondorf, but that would also apply to Alear since Engage was developed alongside Three Houses and was supposed to release in like 2020/2021 as an anniversary title, hence why the main gameplay mechanic is a callback machine lol

In my mind I'm just like "man, the gap between Brawl's project plan in 2005 and Smash 4's plan in 2011/2012 was 6-7 years. Because of Byleth in the DLC of Ultimate, the turnover on this game is like July 2019 to October 2021, so it's barely over two years."

I also can't help but keep thinking that this kind of feels like a repeat of what happened with Smash 4's development, where they didn't start it until Uprising was done, but before it released as a launch title for the new upcoming system.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In my mind I'm just like "man, the gap between Brawl's project plan in 2005 and Smash 4's plan in 2011/2012 was 6-7 years. Because of Byleth in the DLC of Ultimate, the turnover on this game is like July 2019 to October 2021, so it's barely over two years."

Just so people get an even better idea of how ****ed this turnover is, October 2021 is when Metroid Dread came out, and it's arguably the last possible game* that could possibly get a character since it was likely in its polishing final months by the time Sakurai was cooking a project plan.

*some games released later than it may still be considered if they were in a ready-enough state by then, such as Engage being notably held back as, if leaks are true, it was initially meant to be an anniversary title, or potentially TotK depending on how far along in development it was at the time

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Just so people get an even better idea of how ***ed this turnover is, October 2021 is when Metroid Dread came out, and it's arguably the last possible game that could possibly get a character since it was likely in its polishing final months by the time Sakurai was cooking a project plan.

*some games released later than it may still be considered if they were in a ready-enough state by then, such as Engage being notably held back as, if leaks are true, it was initially meant to be an anniversary title, or potentially TotK depending on how far along in development it was at the time

It's like aside from a Pokemon since Gen 9 would've been the following month and we know how that goes, character-wise you can't include Pikmin 4, Xenoblade 3, Tears of the Kingdom, Engage, Kirby and the Forgotten Land was like a month before full fledged development started so that's a hard MAYBE on like one of the best games to base a Bandana Dee claim on, Splatoon 3 came out after that development started, the Advance Wars remake, the Mario RPG remake...

Plus like I still find it odd that Sakurai would have a full team put together for his project in April 2022, but the Namco/Nintendo studios wouldn't be formally announced until November the year AFTER in 2023, and then start hiring for six months until like June 2024, which also happens to be three months after all those new Spirit events in Ultimate. Like why would those events for Ultimate be made like 2 years into full fledged development of a new Smash when you could just include collectibles of the newer characters and stuff in those (Noah and Mio, Oatchi, Deep Cut, the Mario Wonder and Peach Showtime stuff) into the Smash game you're ALREADY IN FULL DEVELOPMENT ON?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Plus like I still find it odd that Sakurai would have a full team put together for his project in April 2022, but the Namco/Nintendo studios wouldn't be formally announced until November the year AFTER in 2023, and then start hiring for six months until like June 2024, which also happens to be three months after all those new Spirit events in Ultimate.

The fact that Sakurai had to get a different team instead of just moving forward with the squad he had has always been the biggest tip to me that this wasn't Smash because if it IS Smash, Bandai Namco was left out of the equation despite a decade of good partnership developing two (technically three because 3DS) games in the series and I just don't see Nintendo throw such a notable partnership under the bus like that.

And if it IS Smash and Bandai Namco IS involved... why the need for an entirely new team? That makes no sense at all.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The fact that Sakurai had to get a different team instead of just moving forward with the squad he had has always been the biggest tip to me that this wasn't Smash because if it IS Smash, Bandai Namco was left out of the equation despite a decade of good partnership developing two (technically three because 3DS) games in the series and I just don't see Nintendo throw such a notable partnership under the bus like that.

Especially when they make Studio 2 and Studio S a year later and they start hiring for two action games.

Like I could easily see a repeat of Smash 4's dev cycle here where Sakurai made a launch title for the Switch 2 with a smaller team and at some point last year they mostly finished that and he started full scale development of the next Smash. Like it'd probably suck for us because it means longer without any actual info, but it also gives it like a nearly 5-year turnover which is a lot better imo and includes most of the Switch's big hitters, only really missing out on the tail end remakes and stuff before the Switch 2 comes out this year. And if it has the typical dev cycle of pretty much every other Smash game, then 2024-2027 isn't that crazy and isn't even that far off from most of our assumptions anyway lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Especially when they make Studio 2 and Studio S a year later and they start hiring for two action games.

Like I could easily see a repeat of Smash 4's dev cycle here where Sakurai made a launch title for the Switch 2 with a smaller team and at some point last year they mostly finished that and he started full scale development of the next Smash. Like it'd probably suck for us because it means longer without any actual info, but it also gives it like a nearly 5-year turnover which is a lot better imo and includes most of the Switch's big hitters, only really missing out on the tail end remakes and stuff before the Switch 2 comes out this year.

Imagine if it history repeated itself further by being another Star Fox idea again before it became another old IP revival

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

This is what Sakurai said about getting Fire Embelm Awakening characters in Smash.

Xenoblade 3 came out 3 months after development of his new game started.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This is what Sakurai said about getting Fire Embelm Awakening characters in Smash.
Xenoblade 3 came out 3 months after development of his new game started.

While true, FE Awakening was quite literally a month after Uprising, and while Sakurai's mention of six months means Xenoblade 3 may have been considered in the event of a 2022 plan, there's also every chance that 3 months is not in that fortuitous window, and like he said, characters are almost never added after the plan is made.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The fact that Sakurai had to get a different team instead of just moving forward with the squad he had has always been the biggest tip to me that this wasn't Smash because if it IS Smash, Bandai Namco was left out of the equation despite a decade of good partnership developing two (technically three because 3DS) games in the series and I just don't see Nintendo throw such a notable partnership under the bus like that.

And if it IS Smash and Bandai Namco IS involved... why the need for an entirely new team? That makes no sense at all.

I think the DLC team was significantly smaller than the team that made the base game. It’s possible a large chunk of, or key members of the base game team were busy with other projects, just a thought.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I feel like it wouldn’t be that strict outside of stuff that are long after project plan such as stuff that released in 2024-2026.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think the DLC team was significantly smaller than the team that made the base game. It’s possible a large chunk of, or key members of the base game team were busy with other projects, just a thought.

Even so, you'd think that DLC squad would stick around instead of the team getting a full reset.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I feel like it wouldn’t be that strict outside of stuff that are long after project plan such as stuff that released in 2024-2026.

I mean the only time we've ever heard of a project plan changing substantially is Chrom being replaced with Robin in Smash 4, but like, either way there was gonna be an Awakening character, Sakurai just changed which one it was.

And like he said in that FE Awakening related message above, characters are almost never added after he finishes the project plan for a Smash game.

For other things like stages, Assist Trophies, and collectibles, sure, they could be later, but if we're talking characters? Not likely.

 

[NotGenerico]

I personally believe that Sakurai's project is a new Smash Bros. Ultimate getting a couple of updates last year is already fishy to me, but there's something else.

Rumor: Nintendo May Have Future Plans for the GameCube Controller

According to a new online rumor, Nintendo could be bringing back the classic Nintendo GameCube controller from the early 2000s in a new way.

gamerant.com

It was leaked months ago that Nintendo is planning on selling Gamecube controllers again. While this might mean that the Nintendo Switch Online service is getting Gamecube games, I think it's likelier that a new Smash Bros is on the horizon. After all, the last two times the Gamecube controller came back it was because of Smash 4 and Ultimate.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I personally believe that Sakurai's project is a new Smash Bros. Ultimate getting a couple of updates last year is already fishy to me, but there's something else.

Rumor: Nintendo May Have Future Plans for the GameCube Controller

According to a new online rumor, Nintendo could be bringing back the classic Nintendo GameCube controller from the early 2000s in a new way.

gamerant.com

It was leaked months ago that Nintendo is planning on selling Gamecube controllers again. While this might mean that the Nintendo Switch Online service is getting Gamecube games, I think it's likelier that a new Smash Bros is on the horizon. After all, the last two times the Gamecube controller came back it was because of Smash 4 and Ultimate.

I mean we know we're getting a Smash eventually since we always do, so you could easily just make these and wait to unveil them until whenever the Smash game comes out, assuming these aren't just rumors swirling around because rumor mills know that Gamecube NSO is a hot topic and a new Smash will eventually release Gamecube controllers anyway. Doesn't really tell us much about the development process imo.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

While true, FE Awakening was quite literally a month after Uprising, and while Sakurai's mention of six months means Xenoblade 3 may have been considered in the event of a 2022 plan, there's also every chance that 3 months is not in that fortuitous window, and like he said, characters are almost never added after the plan is made.

I really doubt Sakurai would be that strict about it.

Even so, you'd think that DLC squad would stick around instead of the team getting a full reset.

Is there reason to believe they wouldn’t have been brought back with the rest of the team when development was ready to begin?