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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Laniv

Smash Champion
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Apr 20, 2014
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Let’s do the opposite. Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

:ultjigglypuff::ultfalco::ultlittlemac::ultpalutena::ultkrool:
I feel like a lot of these are gonna boil down to either "time restraints" or "got out prioritized", but here we go


:ultjigglypuff: Low priority???

:ultfalco: Presumably would leave to give Wolf "his turn to come back"

:ultlittlemac: They really didn't want to compromise on his design so they just threw out the baby with the bathwater

:ultpalutena: ...I dunno, they're downsizing really hard and her number came up?? they just really want to reclass Pit as a retro for some reason??? I got nothing

:ultkrool: Because they want me to suffer I have even less for K. Rool, probably the same reasons as Palutena
 

PersonAngelo53

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Jigglypuff - Uhm, someone in the dev team hates her guts probably
Falco - part of a dead franchise, other semi-clones took priority
Little Mac - See Jigglypuff.
Palutena - Because she's part of a dormant franchise and has a pretty standard moveset, so doesn't offer that much to the roster and it wouldn't make sense to keep her over someone else
King K. Rool - Cue 3rd character in line of 'someone hates their guts'.

As an edit: Except for Palutena, I have a very hard time seeing any of the other 4 getting cut imo, they are locks in the game and each have a special place in Smash (even King K. Rool, who's only been in 1 game).
Palutena has a standard moveset? Dude she is literally our only magic staff user lol.
 

Gorgonzales

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I wonder what that could be. Like what concept would be good enough for Nintendo to greenlight a new Punch Out?
The way I see it, the phrase "this series hasn't returned yet because it needs a good hook" is just Nintendo's code for "we don't care about it" (or "we haven't found a way to ruin this series with hardware gimmicks yet" like Star Fox).

Palutena has a standard moveset? Dude she is literally our only magic staff user lol.
They still picked the most boring Smash 4 specials for her.
 
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Kirbeh

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Yes, I’ve played other platfighters. However, they aren’t really as interesting to speculate about. Rivals 2 and NASB have rather limited-feeling scopes as to what characters could be in them (plus NASB has no confirmed upcoming content,) and MVS characters are pretty much guaranteed to be leaked way in advance so there’s little to talk about.

Plus, this thread is way, way, way more active than any threads for any other platfighters.
Okay...but, what's that got to do with playing something fresh? It sounds a lot more like the primary interest here is shifting the discussion topics in this thread. Is this about playing something fresh or making speculation more interesting for yourself?

And don't get me wrong, I get it. This thread always goes in circles and a lot of topics simply aren't entertained but if you want a more open thread, you might be better off making your own.

That said, if you do want to discuss an all-newcomer Smash, I suppose now might be the time to throw it out there again. A lot of "what if x set" of characters staying/being cut thought experiments are being thrown around rn. If you try framing it like that you might get some takes, though you should probably add some more criteria beyond just "all-newcomers." Give them some more rules to work with like a set number of characters, etc.

the only reason a new Punch-Out hasn’t been made since is the lack of a good hook.
That's odd. Punch-Out!! is all about throwing good hooks. :4pacman:

EDIT: Dang it, my joke got :4greninja:'d by PoppyBro
1737656077644.png

It would be kind of cool to see Sakurai and the Smash team work on a platform fighter for a different property though I don’t expect that to ever happen. I do remember TMNT Smash Up being advertised as “from the dudes that brought you Smash Brawl” but I’m not sure how many of the same people actually worked on it. Sadly, it wasn’t really anywhere close to as good as Smash but I’d love to see someone give a TMNT Smash game another go. There’s a ton of potential for a really fun and unique roster if they pull from across the series’ history.
Honestly, I'd be super down to see the Shredder's Revenge guys recycle and expand the sprite sheets from that game to make a 2D platfighter.

As for Sakurai himself working on another platfighter, I know it's the easy answer, but it'd be nice if he got Sony to give PSAS another chance. Sony made very little effort to help the original team and did more sabotage than anything. At least with Sakurai at the helm, they might actually back off and let him cook, given how respected he is in the industry.

Answer number 2 though is Square Enix. Bring back Ehrgeiz as a platfighter.
 
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Ivander

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New Ninja Gaiden game announced.

Maybe someday Ryu Hayabusa joins Smash?
At first I was like, "Didn't they announce that at the Game Awards?" Only to find out and remember that the Xbox Direct is happening and that you're actually talking about a new entry to the 3D games(which, thinking about it, I don't know why are named the exact same aside from the subtitles on the 2nd and 3rd games on the NES).
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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New Ninja Gaiden game announced.

Maybe someday Ryu Hayabusa joins Smash?
On a totally unrelated note that has absolutely nothing to do with all the upcoming "Ryu Hayabusa is a lock for Smash" posts whatsoever no siree Bob, I'm taking a hiatus from this thread.
 
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PersonAngelo53

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The way I see it, the phrase "this series hasn't returned yet because it needs a good hook" is just Nintendo's code for "we don't care about it" (or "we haven't found a way to ruin this series with hardware gimmicks yet" like Star Fox).



They still picked the most boring Smash 4 specials for her.
I suppose so. But they could always update her a bit on the next smash game.
 

Opossum

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They still picked the most boring Smash 4 specials for her.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the ones that they picked were good choices over all. Warp was easily the best choice out of her up special options (Jump Glide was fairly finicky and Rocket Jump was the "not a good recovery but a strong attack" custom option). Some of the other options felt at odds with the rest of her moveset (Super Speed and Lightweight just made her weirdly polarizing because she's already among the faster and lighter characters in the game) or general character (I'm sorry but Angelic Missile is so stupid lol).

Keeping Autoreticle the neutral special makes total sense and moving Explosive Flame from custom neutral option to side special was a great move. Warp is, again, the obvious choice. The only gripe I have is down special...but not the fact that it's a Counter/Reflect. I'm just sad that Reflect Barrier isn't the default one out of the two if no move is being used on Palutena. I think Reflect Barrier should have been the "default" one while Counter is the situational one. Though ideally how I'd like to see it in the next game is for Reflect Barrier to actually make a physical barrier to mess up opponent recoveries, in addition to being reflectable, and the "Counter" option comes in when an opponent hits it with a melee attack, shattering it and getting blasted by the shrapnel.
 
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pitchfulprocessing

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It's also developed by Platinum Games.

Which, uhh.... VERY interesting timing for that to be announced.
More specifically it's co-developed with Platinum alongside the core Koei Tecmo team, which makes a lot more sense I'd say. Platinum still has plenty of talent, having it be co-developed means you get that plus the traditional Koei management who have directed a lot of acclaimed and solidly-selling action games over the past two generations.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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On a totally unrelated note that has absolutely nothing to do with all the upcoming "Ryu Hayabusa is a lock for Smash" posts whatsoever no siree Bob, I'm taking a hiatus from this thread.
As soon as someone mentioned a new Ninja Gaiden, I had war flashbacks.

Same thing happened with Ragebound or whatever the one that got announced a while ago was, but damn, what is that, three or four new ones?
 

Schnee117

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pitchfulprocessing

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Also I have to point out that Ryu now apparently has his own Nero/Raiden lol, I was getting heavy DMC4 and Revengeance vibes from that trailer. Hopefully Ninja Gaiden 2 Black is multi-platform.
 

Gengar84

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I know a couple people here are going to be pretty hyped that Ninja Gaiden is getting so much love lately. Although, it does hurt my defense of Lu Bu for Smash in that Dynasty Warriors has been more prevalent than Ninja Gaiden in recent years. At least Dynasty Warriors is getting a cool looking new game too, so that’s something. I just wish it was multiplayer.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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2 brand new Ninja Gaiden games and a remaster this year is crazy. I was always surprised Ninja Gaiden wasn’t represented in Smash in anyway what so ever, let alone a playable fighter, hopefully that changes.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Jump Glide was fairly finicky...
Apparently Jump Glide had an absolutely broken application as an approach tool, and if she kept it in Ultimate those nair loops would have been way more of a problem than they were. It would also mean that Palutena would never be able to recover (unless it was a side special and she kept Warp for some ungodly reason) so uh...yeah getting rid of it was a good choice.

I'm sorry but Angelic Missile is so stupid lol
I thought Angelic Missile was fine mechanically. Bit of an odd thing for Palutena to turn herself into a missile, but I don't remember it being a terrible move.

Heavenly Light on the other hand easily cracks the top 10 most useless special moves, being right up there with Egg Roll and Rollout.
EDIT: Celestial Firework was also kinda pointless IIRC.

The only grip I have is down special...but not the fact that it's a Counter/Reflect. I'm just sad that Reflect Barrier isn't the default one out of the two if no move is being used on Palutena. I think Reflect Barrier should have been the "default" one while Counter is the situational one. Though ideally how I'd like to see it in the next game is for Reflect Barrier to actually make a physical barrier to mess up opponent recoveries, in addition to being reflectable, and the "Counter" option comes in when an opponent hits it with a melee attack, shattering it and getting blasted by the shrapnel.
I'm picturing Scintilla meets Place Block and the thought terrifies me.

...

Maybe you were thinking more along the lines of Scintilla + Guardian Orbitars. That's seems more reasonable.

Also today I learned scintilla is an actual word. It also seems to have nothing to do with the spell's effect.
 
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Gengar84

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Heavenly Light was a really cool move in concept though. It felt so unique. I wonder if they could have made it useful without being overpowered with proper balancing.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Heavenly Light was a really cool move in concept though. It felt so unique. I wonder if they could have made it useful without being overpowered with proper balancing.
I think the idea behind it was to take advantage of custom moves to allow something extremely casual focused: Something that did a bunch of damage to players fighting above Palutena or trying to grab an item near her. In practice, she just makes herself vulnerable.

I don't really see there being a version of this move that's competitively viable, and casually I think it would at best be a noob stomper, which isn't really something you want either.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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It might be too much given the new 2D game, NG4, and the remastered version of 2 Black, but it'd be nice to get a full blown collection of the older games on modern platforms, especially given the interesting contrasts between stuff like the Master System, Arcade, NES, Game Boy, Game Gear, and Lynx versions.
 

Gengar84

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My friend is a big fan of the Ninja Gaiden games so he’ll be excited to see this. Now Microsoft just needs to get working on a new Killer Instinct game or another Battletoads game with the classic art direction. I’d be interested in seeing single player or local co-op games based off WarCraft and StarCraft.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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It might be too much given the new 2D game, NG4, and the remastered version of 2 Black, but it'd be nice to get a full blown collection of the older games on modern platforms, especially given the interesting contrasts between stuff like the Master System, Arcade, NES, Game Boy, Game Gear, and Lynx versions.
It's always been annoying to me that there's no legal way to play Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 on the NES, NSO only has the first game. Likewise Ninja Gaiden Black, the best version of NG1, isn't available on modern platforms aside from Xbox backwards compatibility, which made the 3D collection from a few years ago feel pretty lackluster. Now is the perfect time to do a proper collection.
 

MBRedboy31

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Heavenly Light has 2 main uses, both of which are outside competitive play:
  • In time matches, since it deals no knockback and has a ginormous active hitbox, you can use it to steal kills. You can do a similar thing with Fox lasers or non-sweetspot Luigi up-B, but Heavenly Light is probably the easiest move to do it with.
  • It is very good in Trophy Rush (which isn't present in Ultimate,) where it destroys the falling boxes very quickly in a large area.
 
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