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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Opossum

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
I think said roster would be this:
:ultmario::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultkirby::ultpikachu:
:ultmarth::ultolimar::ultisabelle::ultpyra::ultinkling::ultminmin

One could make the argument that Pikachu might not be there if the roster were first made today since Pokémon got grandfathered into the series before the franchise got super rights-protective, but as to not open that can of worms I decided to ignore it lol. Aegis over Shulk is mostly just there to help aid the gender balance a bit more, which helps since Xenoblade is one of those "different casts each time" series.
 

KingofPhantoms

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
Going with a similar concept to Opo's in his post above.

:ultmario::ultlink::ultkirby::ultpikachu::ultsamus::ultdk:
:ultshulk::ultisabelle::ultinkling::ultsonic::ultolimar::ultmarth:

Would be my best guess. If Marth wouldn't be the FE character to make it in, then it'd probably be Alear or the protagonist of the next FE game, depending on when this hypothetical reboot would be released.

I could actually potentially see a reboot similar to this happening with this as a default roster, but with more characters being unlockable and or made as DLC over time. I could still see Captain Falcon and some Starfox characters making it in this case, maybe in addition to the first 12, but that's still a maybe. Both of their respective franchises have gotten a lot less in recent years than any of the characters from other franchises here have, even Donkey Kong.
 

superprincess

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I don't think the first Smash Bros. game would launch with 12 characters if it was made today. That said, if we were limited to that number, I'd go for this roster:

:ultmario::ultbowser::ultdk:
:ultlink::ultsamus::ultmarth:
:ultkirby::ultpikachu::ultmewtwo:
:ultvillager::ultolimar::ultinkling:

Of course, I wanted to represent the most important Nintendo series while also covering the necessary gameplay archetypes, which most of these rosters seem to forget about.

Distribution between franchises was also taken into consideration. There wasn't a lot of space, but of course Mario and Pokémon had to have more representation.
 

Louie G.

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what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
I think everyone is sleeping on Peach here. Samus and Inkling, and maybe Isabelle (if not Villager or Tom Nook, your call) would be there, sure. But Peach is without a doubt Nintendo’s most high profile female character, and as of late they’ve been using her in more prominent roles. As well as showing her to be a more capable force on her own, through the movie, Wonder and her own game.

And like it or not, I think Luigi makes it too. Luigi’s Mansion has grown into quite a big series during the Switch era and Smash should probably have some kind of “Ken” to Mario’s “Ryu”. Three Mario characters, at least. I’d consider adding Bowser too but it might take them til the sequel to do any big villain characters.

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultlink::ultisabelle::ultinkling:
:ultdk::ultsamus::ultkirby::ultolimar::ultmarth::ultminmin

Was between Min-Min and Shulk / Pythra for the last spot here but I think she provides the most variety. Provided Min-Min is even the choice for ARMS at all, but I digress - a Dhalsim-esque distance demon is offering a bit more here to me and I think stance change stuff is better left for future titles.

I do think this roster would probably be at least 15 characters if it were real though, so you could rest easy believing Bowser or Shulk are next in line. Was unsure how Pokemon would play out in this universe so I decided to be the asshole that excludes them entirely. Sorry.

I think if there’s anything this roster is missing its probably a speedy character like Pikachu or Fox though. But at least Kirby is an obvious lightweight glass cannon. Maybe Inkling can be made a little faster here.
 
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ninjahmos

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
Alright, I'll give it a shot:

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultlink::ultsamus::ultkirby::ultpikachu:
:ultfalcon::ultmarth::ultolimar::ultvillager::ultshulk::ultinkling:
 

LiveStudioAudience

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It is interesting how much Yoshi's placement in that original 12 fighter roster was reflective of the status and consistency of his games at that point. The character was getting spin-offs immediately after their SMW debut, and after Yoshi's Island? He was major enough that it could be said he, Mario, & the Kongs were the central figures of mid-90s Western Nintendo, with Yoshi specifically being chosen as the setting for the US/European localization of Panel de Pon with Tetris Attack.

Zelda coming back with Ocarina of Time and Pokemon releasing in the West in 1998 changed everything and in a lot of ways Yoshi as a series never reached the height of marketing focus again (and the Kongs really getting their last hurrah with DK64 the year after).

In that respect his spot in Smash 64 is kind of an illustrative time capsule of both of various Nintendo series still years away from becoming more high profile (or even existing in the case of stuff like Pikmin) and just how significant the Yoshi sub-brand was at that point.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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It is interesting how much Yoshi's placement in that original 12 fighter roster was reflective of the status and consistency of his games at that point. The character was getting spin-offs immediately after their SMW debut, and after Yoshi's Island? The character was major enough that it could be said he, Mario, & the Kongs were the central figures of mid-90s Western Nintendo, with Yoshi specifically being chosen as the setting for the US/European localization of Panel de Pon with Tetris Attack.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I feel like Luigi would have been listed as a separate series in Smash for the same reason as Yoshi if the Luigi’s Mansion games were released long before Smash 64 rather then after.
 
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superprincess

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Maybe unpopular opinion but I feel like Luigi would have been listed as a separate series in Smash for the same reason as Yoshi if the Luigi’s Mansion games were released long before Smash 64 rather then after.
Don't think so. Luigi's relationship to Mario is too strong for them to be considered different universes in Smash. Not to mention multiple Mario characters—including, you know, Mario himself—regularly feature in the Luigi's Mansion games, which doesn't happen in Yoshi, Wario or DK games.
I think everyone is sleeping on Peach here
She's (obviously) my favorite so I'm inclined to agree, but I feel like many people, myself included, give Bowser the edge due to the lack of big bodies/heavyweights on such small rosters. And villains of course.
 

toonito

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
Re: If Smash Debuted Today

IMO this would be the 12 character roster
:ultmario::ultluigi::ultlink::ultkirby::ultdk::ultsamus::ultpikachu::ultolimar::ultshulk::ultvillager::ultinkling::ultmarth:
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Not to mention multiple Mario characters—including, you know, Mario himself—regularly feature in the Luigi's Mansion games, which doesn't happen in Yoshi, Wario or DK games.
Uh, Baby Mario and Luigi? Baby Peach in DS? Baby Bowser being the antagonist in most games?

I get what you mean in regards to Luigi's Mansion and for Wario and DK, but that's just not true for Yoshi at all lmao
 

LiveStudioAudience

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With Yoshi's its half and half, after SMW2 some titles went big on the Mario characters (Touch and Go, Island DS, New Island) while others seemed content with focusing on Yoshi specific elements (Yoshi's Story, Woolly World, Crafted World), with Kamek plus a variation Bowser seemingly just accepted as givens as the main antagonists.

Granted that is a higher ratio than Wario or DK do, but it is worth noting.
 

ScrubReborn

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She's (obviously) my favorite so I'm inclined to agree, but I feel like many people, myself included, give Bowser the edge due to the lack of big bodies/heavyweights on such small rosters. And villains of course.
Also even though this was forever ago, Bowser was the one chosen as Smash 64's second Mario character over Peach even though he didn't get in. Most likely he was even chosen over Luigi since he was a last minute clone i doubt was planned from the start.
 
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KingofPhantoms

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It is interesting how much Yoshi's placement in that original 12 fighter roster was reflective of the status and consistency of his games at that point. The character was getting spin-offs immediately after their SMW debut, and after Yoshi's Island? The character was major enough that it could be said he, Mario, & the Kongs were the central figures of mid-90s Western Nintendo, with Yoshi specifically being chosen as the setting for the US/European localization of Panel de Pon with Tetris Attack.

Zelda coming back with Ocarina of Time and Pokemon releasing in the West in 1998 changed everything and in a lot of ways Yoshi as a series never reached the height of marketing focus again (and the Kongs really getting their last hurrah with DK64 the year after).

In that respect his spot in Smash 64 is kind of an illustrative time capsule of both of various Nintendo series still years away from becoming more high profile (or even existing in the case of stuff like Pikmin) and just how significant the Yoshi sub-brand was at that point.
I'm gonna be honest, the only reason I didn't include Yoshi on my hypothetical reboot roster was because I forgot to consider him lmao.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Most likely he was even chosen over Luigi since he was a last minute clone that i doubt was planned from the start.
I find it hard to believe that a game whose name is derived from Super Mario Bros. wouldn't have had both namesake Bros.
Especially with how an open secret Luigi was (appears in the How to Play with Mario and in the 1-P mode as an opponent also alongside Mario, the ONLY unlockable to do so).
 

Louie G.

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Also even though this was forever ago, Bowser was the one chosen as Smash 64's second Mario character over Peach even though he didn't get in. Most likely he was even chosen over Luigi since he was a last minute clone that probably wasn't planned from the start.
It being forever ago is kind of why I disregarded this when making my roster, because Nintendo has made more effort since then to diversify their gendered representation and I think that would be a priority here. It’s itching me a little bit when rosters are being posted here with only Samus and Inkling (who can also be a boy). I don’t think that’s realistically how it plays out nowadays.

It’s hard to quantify who gets more attention these days, between Peach and Bowser, because they both obviously get a lot. But it’s worth noting that Peach’s damsel role has been lifted up to more of a consistent heroic and independent role since 1999. And with several playable roles on Switch and a game of her own this is just an overall good period for her.

As for Luigi, the ease of development definitely helped. But I’m gonna believe Sakurai also might have seen the value in having both Mario Bros playable in his competitive platforming game, mirroring the original Mario Bros.

I think all four members of the Mario crew end up playable if the roster is expanded out by a couple more slots, but I do think Bowser is number four.
 
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Pupp135

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
I’ll do this in two versions, one where it’s a reboot of what we currently have vs. SSB had never existed beforehand.

Reboot in 2025
:ultmario::ultbowser::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultmarth:
:ultkirby::ultfox::ultpikachu::ultvillager::ultolimar::ultinkling:
Based on marketing, Nintendo views their most prominent franchises as Super Mario, Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon. I have Villager here as he has senority over Isabelle in this timeline. I think that a few secondary franchises like Fire Emblem, Metroid, and Donkey Kong can join the roster here. While Star Fox is dormant, I’m seeing this as a reboot after Ultimate, and I think Fox is a valuable addition in this scenario; otherwise, I would have dropped him. To finalize the roster, I assume that another Super Mario character would be here, and Bowser receives the most usage in SSB marketing material. If I need to provide a list of secret characters, I’ll go with Bowser, Donkey Kong, Marth, and Fox.

Series starts in 2025
:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus:
:ultkirby::ultbyleth::ultisabelle::ultolimar::ultshulk::ultinkling:
Pokemon is excluded in this scenario as I’m unsure if getting the rights to Pokemon would be harder in this scenario. I also replaced Villager with Isabelle here as Isabelle is the most used character to market Animal Crossing. For Fire Emblem, Marth still works as an honorary mascot and his role in Engage, but I went with Byleth to highlight Three Houses’ success. In this scenario, I think that Luigi and Peach are considered important enough to priortize in this scenario. Finally, I‘ll bring in Xenoblade here, and I’ll pick Shulk here, given that a transforming Aegis might not be the first thing that I come up with. Secret characters would be Luigi, Donkey Kong, Byleth, and Shulk.
 

Watuna4343

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Adding onto the Mario ranking here, I do think Luigi's 'Number 2 Mario rep' has been usurped by Bowser. Villain rep is a thing and there's no villain more iconic than Bowser. Peach is also probably the most iconic and high-profile female but in a 12-character roster Isabelle, Samus and the Inkling are potential options that help not oversaturate the roster with Mario characters. Luigi is fighting with Peach for 3rd behind Bowser imo, but I do think that nowadays if the Mario franchise had only 2 reps in a 12-character roster, Luigi wouldn't be in and Mario and Bowser would.
 

RileyXY1

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Adding onto the Mario ranking here, I do think Luigi's 'Number 2 Mario rep' has been usurped by Bowser. Villain rep is a thing and there's no villain more iconic than Bowser. Peach is also probably the most iconic and high-profile female but in a 12-character roster Isabelle, Samus and the Inkling are potential options that help not oversaturate the roster with Mario characters. Luigi is fighting with Peach for 3rd behind Bowser imo, but I do think that nowadays if the Mario franchise had only 2 reps in a 12-character roster, Luigi wouldn't be in and Mario and Bowser would.
Luigi only got into Smash 64 in the first place because he could reuse a lot of Mario's assets. In fact that was how most of the unlockable characters were picked. Captain Falcon reused some of Samus's assets along with assets from the old Dragon King prototype while Jigglypuff used some of Kirby's assets. Ness also reused some of Mario's assets, but a lot of Ness's kit is fully original.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I'm gonna be honest, the only reason I didn't include Yoshi on my hypothetical reboot roster was because I forgot to consider him lmao.
It's an understandable omission all things considered. Yoshi never ever disappeared and it's impossible to imagine any multiplayer Mario spin-off not including him, but the Yoshi subseries itself simply lacks the same kind of presence it once did. In a context where Kirby, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Splatoon have all gotten bigger, it would be much tougher to really argue the IP has the same kind of contemporary pop now. Doubly so given that the last 20 years have been the elevation of a diverse range of formerly modest genres into consistent sellers, making a kid friendly slower 2D platformer such as Yoshi almost feel like a throwback series at this point when even Kirby as gone 3D.
 
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ScrubReborn

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I think all four members of the Mario crew end up playable if the roster is expanded out by a couple more slots, but I do think Bowser is number four.
IDK I feel like he provides the best and most natural contrast to Mario if we must go down to two. Mario VS Bowser is eternal after all. Hell even having a villain is a timeless x factor and I feel the void would be felt more than any void that would be there with Peach's absence.

Even outside of Peach, there's still options for girls outside Samus/Inkling Kid (Isabelle would probably be AC's rep if Smash started today, and Pyra could pull a Ness for Xenoblade with her popularity). But a roster without Bowser is probably villanless. As for Luigi, yeah Sakurai sees value in him being Player 2, but how do we know he sees more value in that than anything Bowser has?

And yes, 64 was forever ago, but I don't think time means much on its own. What matters is if Sakurai's opinion has changed. And I doubt it has. If anything it feels like Bowser gets more special attention in Smash to this day. They constantly use him for trailers, unlike the other two, hell, Sakurai even gave him his own super form in Melee, not a lot of characters can say that, I think there's other examples of favoritism too which aren't coming to mind rn.

I think he just really likes the guy. Long as he's still calling the shots for this theoretical first game, I don't think his mind's changed. Bias goes far when the choice is otherwise equal. I see where you're coming from but I would be surprised if Bowser isn't 2.

Luigi is fighting with Peach for 3rd behind Bowser imo
I think Peach is 3. Luigi's similarity to Mario means little on its own, but if we're going down to the wire, I think it'll cost him against Peach and Bowser, both provide contrast Luigi doesn't. For any of Luigi, Peach or Bowser to be at risk, I think the roster would have to be under 15 characters and at that point, yeah variety matters.

Of course clone-age science means he could still get in over either with time, it already happened once, but ignoring time, Peach and Bowser seem like much more natural characters to prioritize.

..And yeah I don't think Luigi was ever #2. Even if he was planned from the start in 64 (edit: apparently I was right, he wasn't), Bowser was too, and one was a clone and the other wasn't so Luigi making it doesn't automatically mean he favored him over Bowser.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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We do know that Luigi and the other 3 were at least added in development later. "When deciding the characters for the first game, Sakurai decided to focus on Nintendo’s 8 biggest all-star series for the starting roster, with the other 4 being chosen later on for a few different reasons." But this also makes it clear they were also decided upon later on. So Luigi was not planned from the start, at least. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have gotten in, etc, either. Even if others still made it in, we don't know if any last minute-style additions could've happened. There's all kinds of variables. It'd be unlikely, since other characters would've required more work, meaning less time, but we don't know if Sakurai could've had the game release slightly later either, etc.

 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It'll probably never happen, but I think Butter Building would make a neat stage.

SSF2 has a Butter Building stage. It's nothing special, but it's alright. Probably something more appreciated by those who actually played that stage in the Kirby series.

I also feel like an official version would have more bells and whistles, or at least would have fine tuned the feel of the stage just a tad better. All in all, I'm not opposed to an official Butter Building stage.
 

Perkilator

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SSF2 has a Butter Building stage. It's nothing special, but it's alright. Probably something more appreciated by those who actually played that stage in the Kirby series.

I also feel like an official version would have more bells and whistles, or at least would have fine tuned the feel of the stage just a tad better. All in all, I'm not opposed to an official Butter Building stage.
I personally kinda like the Butter Building stage in Kirby Fighters, and would’ve preferred that interpretation as a stage in Smash 3DS instead of Dream Land GB.
 

KneeOfJustice99

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Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
Here's my take on things. It might be a bit odd at a glance, but I think there's some logic behind it; though I'll freely admit, it's a bit controversial.

:ultmario::ultpeach::ultdk:
:ultpikachu::ultlink::ultisabelle:
:ultinkling::ultkirby::ultchrom:
:ultsamus::ultolimar::ultpyra:
:ultgreninja::ultzelda::ultwario:

As a general rule, my thought process was to focus on a mix of a variety of both movesets and characters, and currently-prominent franchises. There's a couple of possibly odd picks at a glance; a solo Pokemon rep, Peach over Luigi or Bowser, Chrom as the FE rep and so forth - but I think they do a decent job at feeling at least partially like they take a good swathe of Nintendo's library while also being pretty much entirely made up of promo-picks.

(Note that the bottom three are characters I would have chosen given the opportunity that I think maintain a similar sort of philosophy.)
 
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MBRedboy31

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It’d be so easy to convert Kirby Fighters DX and Kirby Fighters 2’s version of Butter Building into a Smash stage, all they need to do is make it so you can fall off the sides (since all stages in Kirby Fighters are fully walled in.)

If you haven’t seen this stage in action, sometimes it rotates, which causes all players and items to be pushed to the left or right based on the rotation direction. Various pixelated Kirby enemies spawn from time to time, and sometimes a pixelated UFO Kirby appears that drops a food item (although he’ll drop a Bomber on you instead if you attack him.)



It’d be kinda cool just because of the fact that we’d finally have a stage layout taken from another platform fighter.
 

NintenRob

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So Schrafrillas is doing another popularity poll like he did with Mario, except this time it's Zelda

The results from this will be interesting to see. Especially if Smash popularity = general popularity

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So what I'm really saying, get your Skull Kid votes in now while you can. His Mario one was super fun and interesting
 
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KneeOfJustice99

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It’d be so easy to convert Kirby Fighters DX and Kirby Fighters 2’s version of Butter Building into a Smash stage, all they need to do is make it so you can fall off the sides (since all stages in Kirby Fighters are fully walled in.)

If you haven’t seen this stage in action, sometimes it rotates, which causes all players and items to be pushed to the left or right based on the rotation direction. Various pixelated Kirby enemies spawn from time to time, and sometimes a pixelated UFO Kirby appears that drops a food item (although he’ll drop a Bomber on you instead if you attack him.)



It’d be kinda cool just because of the fact that we’d finally have a stage layout taken from another platform fighter.
As awesome as this particular variant of Butter Building was (and honestly, Butter Building feels like a cool concept for a stage anyway), there is actually an issue I have with it in a 2D platfighter context; and to explain it, I'll throw together a diagram real quick.

1736072569964.png


The problem that occurs to me is mostly with animation; what with the stage's base being circular, it means that you kind of run into issues with how exactly you handle ledge-grabs. See, from a purely 2D perspective, you could make the argument that you could go all the way to the apparent "edge" of the platform; but doing that would have a few issues.

In this case, presume the red line is the actual "field of play" - that is, the 2D plane within 3D space where all the fighters are. The "edge" of the platform (given it's circular) would be represented with the orange point; but the "apparent edge" I referred to earlier would actually be all the way up where that green point is, pretty far back in the stage's background.

This works fine enough in a purely 2D context like a sprite-based game (such as SSF2 for example), and works just fine in Kirby Fighters 2 because - as you mentioned - the stages are all walled-in. The problem in this particular scenario is that you'd have to work out a way to make it so that character's ledge-grab animations keep to the red line, but as a result, make it so they don't clip into the stage when they're holding onto the side.

This wouldn't be an impossible fix; there's four ways that spring to my mind;
  • A visual gimmick/element loosely akin to the Mario Galaxy stage, whereby characters visibly move into the background a little due to the line of play being physically altered (akin to the green line), but this would run into a ton of issues of visibility (not to mention issues when being launched.)
  • Featuring two additional, entirely unique ledge-grab animations (and possibly animations for things like ledge-hops, ledge attacks, etc) for characters to exclusively use on Butter Building. Seems like a ton of work for just one stage.
  • Redesigning the stage itself to make the ledges more appropriate for the general-purpose animations. Plausible, but you wouldn't want to lose too much of the stage's visual identity in the process.
  • Having Butter Building, which is specifically well-suited to inclusion because it's high above the ground, as a run-off stage that doesn't have lower blast zones. (This kind of defeats the object of including Butter Building in the first place.)
Idk. I've always been a fan of Butter Building but it seems like it'd be a lot of work.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
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Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
As awesome as this particular variant of Butter Building was (and honestly, Butter Building feels like a cool concept for a stage anyway), there is actually an issue I have with it in a 2D platfighter context; and to explain it, I'll throw together a diagram real quick.

The problem that occurs to me is mostly with animation; what with the stage's base being circular, it means that you kind of run into issues with how exactly you handle ledge-grabs. See, from a purely 2D perspective, you could make the argument that you could go all the way to the apparent "edge" of the platform; but doing that would have a few issues.

In this case, presume the red line is the actual "field of play" - that is, the 2D plane within 3D space where all the fighters are. The "edge" of the platform (given it's circular) would be represented with the orange point; but the "apparent edge" I referred to earlier would actually be all the way up where that green point is, pretty far back in the stage's background.

This works fine enough in a purely 2D context like a sprite-based game (such as SSF2 for example), and works just fine in Kirby Fighters 2 because - as you mentioned - the stages are all walled-in. The problem in this particular scenario is that you'd have to work out a way to make it so that character's ledge-grab animations keep to the red line, but as a result, make it so they don't clip into the stage when they're holding onto the side.

This wouldn't be an impossible fix; there's four ways that spring to my mind;
  • A visual gimmick/element loosely akin to the Mario Galaxy stage, whereby characters visibly move into the background a little due to the line of play being physically altered (akin to the green line), but this would run into a ton of issues of visibility.
  • Featuring two additional, entirely unique ledge-grab animations (and possibly animations for things like ledge-hops, ledge attacks, etc) for characters to exclusively use on Butter Building. Seems like a ton of work for just one stage.
  • Redesigning the stage itself to make the ledges more appropriate for the general-purpose animations. Plausible, but you wouldn't want to lose too much of the stage's visual identity in the process.
  • Having Butter Building, which is specifically well-suited to inclusion because it's high above the ground, as a run-off stage that doesn't have lower blast zones. (This kind of defeats the object of including Butter Building in the first place.)
Idk. I've always been a fan of Butter Building but it seems like it'd be a lot of work.
I think the simplest solution is to go to Butter Building's original 2D perspective where the camera is straight on from the platforms. Most stages don't do this, but retro stages are often exceptions, and despite being based off of an iteration that is 3D, I think Butter Building could still be one of them.

Interestingly, Butter Building would be the second 3D retro stage, with the other being 75m.

Also, looking at this stage's gimmick both in Kirby Fighters Deluxe 2, and in Kirby's Adventure, it's so weird that instead of spinning, SSF2's Butter Building is a vertical scrolling stage. Like, I know it's a tower, but the whole gimmick is the spin. Why does it not spin?
 

Folezicle Lives!

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
38
Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
With 12 I would hope for one rep oer series


:ultfalcon::ultinkling::ultlink::ultmario::ultolimar::ultkirby::ultsamus::ultisabelle::ultdk::ultbyleth::ultduckhunt::ultpikachu:

Maybe replace DuckHunt with Shulk just think there would be a retro character. I also think Captain Falcon is to much to do with Smash Lore
 
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Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
26,416
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Here's a hypothetical scenario that will never happen but sounds like fun nonetheless if y'all are OK. What if the next Smash Bros goes full on reboot and restarts the roster to 12 fighters as the original 64 game did? (again, this is not going to happen, but just for fun speculation's sake), basically what if a 12-character-roster Smash would look like today vs in 1999? What 12 characters would get in?
I have made a hypothetical version of said scenario: https://imgur.com/a01TNtc
but realistically speaking, what characters would probably make it in such a small roster because I imagine whoever made it in such a roster could very safely be considered untouchable, like bulletproof from any cut whatsoever.
My attempt :

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultbowser::ultdk:(+:ultdiddy:)
:ultpikachu::ultpokemontrainer::ultlink::ultchrom:
:ultkirby::ultsamus::ultinkling::ultshulk:

Now hear me out, Mario and Pokémon will have more representatives regardless. Luigi won't be excluded neither will Bowser, ever. I opted for Mewtwo instead of Pokémon Trainer but with modern technology, Trainer is easily feasible. Puts in more Pokémon as well.

I also added Diddy Kong as a tag team option of DK because they're inseparable and the modern DKC games work this way anyway. This gives DKC a more fair representation, and a more unique heavy weight character alongside Bowser.

I also choose series that have more combat in it as priority over more peaceful series as Animal Crossing and Pikmin. They're secondary to me if it comes to fighting game inclusions. With Fire Emblem I choose Chrom, but Marth and Byleth are equally good choices. However if Marth wasn't included in Melee like he was, I doubt he'd still be the face of the series as he is today and not Chrom for reviving the series, similar to how Cloud is moreso the face of Final Fantasy than whoever even is the first protagonist.
 
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