Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As far as must-haves go, I agree that it's way too easy for people to view the entire roster as such. Competition is so fierce that just being ridiculously important in general or to the series as a whole isn't good enough: you have to be inseparable. As far as who fits this criteria, this is what I came up with previously:

1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus
5. Kirby
6. Fox
7. Marth
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ganondorf
10. Peach
11. Zelda

That's not to say that there aren't characters not on this list that I think are guaranteed (Shulk, Inkling, and Yoshi for example), but I think a more conservative list of must-haves is going to be a bit healthier for speculation.

I would personally add Bowser, Pikachu, Inkling and Villager/Isabelle (either of the two) but otherwise, I agree with that list.

You can argue they may not be "inseperable" but these characters are likely going to be very high priority to the point where any of them getting cut means 40 to 50 more people get cut for sure (assuming time constraints is what gets them cut).

 

[Pupp135]

I’d like to start off with Happy Holidays!

What wtf character do you think we'll get in the mext smash?

If Sakurai has a better idea of how this character would work since Melee’s development cycle, I’m leaning towards the Excitebike Rider as he seems like a weird choice on paper, but he’s a historically significant character in the same vein as Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, and R.O.B. (I guess he’d also round out the major ’80s Nintendo characters).

This fan base will never agree on anything lol

What characters ARE we cutting then? The original 12 are untouchable, but people wanna make exceptions for Jigglypuff sometimes. Weird but... yeah. Then Melee, outside of characters previously cut as Roy, Pichu, Dr.Mario and Young Link? Who else? Ice Climbers and Sheik stand out to me but to someone else they're legendary legacy picks similar to Captain Falcon and Ness...

This is murky. I suspect the biggest names in overall Nintendo popularity are the most safe. Outside of that, its anyone's guess. But its getting ridiculous.

Let's just argue which characters we feel are 100% guaranteed then.

For the question of who’s getting removed, I think this will probably be approached similar to how the rosters were approached in prior games where the developers list the fighters in terms of priority. Higher priority fighters like Mario and Kirby would be worked on first while fighters who are lower priority (let’s say Piranha Plant and Pichu here) would be finished later in development or dropped completely.
Admittedly, the way to prioritize fighters becomes nuanced and complex after we remove the small number of fighters who are typically considered low hanging fruit cuts like Young Link, Pichu, and Piranha Plant. Someone may argue that a character like Bowser Jr. is a higher priority because he is Super Mario’s secondary antagonist, but some people may argue that he is a lower priority when we consider Rosalina’s position in the roster, fighters outside from series outside of Super Mario like Pokemon and Fire Emblem, contemporary picks like the Nintendo Fighter Pass characters, or the multiple single fighter franchises like Ice Climber, Wii Fit, and the surprise franchises.

If I had to provide a list of veterans that with chances higher than 90% (nothing’s guaranteed, but I’d be very shocked if they got cut), I’d pick these ones. I can also provide a list where it’s what I consider 100% too below:

Spoiler: Veterans

(with or without )

​

Spoiler: “Guaranteed Veterans”

(With or without )
​

​

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would personally add Bowser, Pikachu, Inkling and Villager/Isabelle (either of the two) but otherwise, I agree with that list.

You can argue they may not be "inseperable" but these characters are likely going to be very high priority to the point where any of them getting cut means 40 to 50 more people get cut for sure.

Bowser is a pretty reasonable addition, and Pikachu not being on the list is definitely an oversight on my part. Inkling, Villager, and Isabelle I don't think should be on the list (yet) because they haven't been around long enough to become so iconic to the series they're almost synonymous with it like the others have. I mean, it's telling that a lot of people find Villager and Isabelle interchangeable, and often even want one to take over for the other, which is something I don't think anyone would ever argue for any of the other clone sets.

EDIT: I should also mention that I agree that Inkling and Villager/Isabelle are going to and should be super high priority, but I was more coming from the lens of "Purely within the context of itself, who are Smash's most iconic fighters?".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Bowser is a pretty reasonable addition, and Pikachu not being on the list is definitely an oversight on my part. Inkling, Villager, and Isabelle I don't think should be on the list (yet) because they haven't been around long enough to become so iconic to the series they're almost synonymous with it like the others have. I mean, it's telling that a lot of people find Villager and Isabelle interchangeable, and often even want one to take over for the other, which is something I don't think anyone would ever argue for any of the other clone sets.

As long as we both agree that while not "musts", Animal Crossing and Splatoon are still pretty damn high priority, I can't disagree with that line of logic.

EDIT: DAMMIT, you edited in exactly that lmao

 

[CannonStreak]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Since we're talking about this anyway, shouldn't we try to make a sort of collection of data on whom we feel is the most safe ? And get a ranking system somehow?

Swamp Sensei : would you be able to create something like you did with the most popular newcomers ?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

ARE YOU OKAY? BUSTER WOLF! Because I wouldn't be okay if Terry got cut.

 

[Pupp135]

Since we're talking about this anyway, shouldn't we try to make a sort of collection of data on whom we feel is the most safe ? And get a ranking system somehow?

Swamp Sensei : would you be able to create something like you did with the most popular newcomers ?

I think this would be a cool idea. When assessing cuts, I like using priority lists, and I think a rate their chances thing would be cool to have like what Gamefaqs did during the summer/fall (please note that troll votes appear for characters like Mario, and these results I included only provide mean values).

 

[Garteam]

What wtf character do you think we'll get in the mext smash?

I've got a good feeling on Excitebiker, but these characters are chosen because people can't predict them. So, I have no idea, really.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Since we're talking about this anyway, shouldn't we try to make a sort of collection of data on whom we feel is the most safe ? And get a ranking system somehow?

Swamp Sensei : would you be able to create something like you did with the most popular newcomers ?

After I finish the Third Party Newcomer poll I was thinking of making a poll for veterans.

I've been brainstorming what would go on the poll for a while.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

Pretty much every third party character except Steve

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What wtf character do you think we'll get in the mext smash?

A disgruntled middle-aged golfer that's just trying to play the hole but keeps getting bothered by the other fighters.

 

[Arcanir]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

With how competitive it is within Pokemon he's not in a good spot to return, but he's my favorite to play out of that entire cast and just in general so I'd be sad to see him go. He also has some of my favorite animations in the game.

 

[Gengar84]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

Sephiroth is my favorite Smash character and I love playing as him but he’s probably one of the more likely cuts. My other favorite is Ganondorf but he’s relatively safe. Terry’s actually one of my favorites to play so I’ll miss him if he’s cut.

 

[Noipoi]

Incineroar is such a cool character. So much effort was put into his lives and animations and he’s just really fun.

His biggest disadvantage is being a Pokemon. There are nine other characters to consider, and some of them are definitely getting cut. If he was the mascot for “Zoo Wrestling ‘94” or something I’d feel better about him coming back.

 

[Gengar84]

Incineroar is such a cool character. So much effort was put into his lives and animations and he’s just really fun.

His biggest disadvantage is being a Pokemon. There are nine other characters to consider, and some of them are definitely getting cut. If he was the mascot for “Zoo Wrestling ‘94” or something I’d feel better about him coming back.

If they need to swap out some of the Pokemon and still want to keep the wrestling archetype, I’d love to see Bugzzy from Kirby.

 

[CannonStreak]

If they need to swap out some of the Pokemon and still want to keep the wrestling archetype, I’d love to see Bugzzy from Kirby.

View attachment 397187

Oh yeah! Bugzzy is very cool!

Anyways, a character I would miss if cut would be Wolf. He was cut once, and though I do think he will appear again, others have thought that he will be cut again. That kind of does have me worried, actually.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If they need to swap out some of the Pokemon and still want to keep the wrestling archetype, I’d love to see Bugzzy from Kirby.

View attachment 397187

While that would be cool, I am not a fan of the idea of "oh, if we're cutting this character, we can always just add someone similar"

It gives me the same vibes as MvC Infinite's infamously bad PR. Specifically the "functions" argument.

If they cut Incineroar, it means they don't see much value in a wrestler because if they did, they wouldn't have cut Incineroar in the first place.

 

[Laniv]

Happy Holidays! Enjoy this Christmas art I made over the season:

Spoiler: oh wow these are big images

 

[Guynamednelson]

While that would be cool, I am not a fan of the idea of "oh, if we're cutting this character, we can always just add someone similar"

It gives me the same vibes as MvC Infinite's infamously bad PR. Specifically the "functions" argument.

Ironically MvC3 was already guilty of that, Capcom confirmed that Crimson Viper was supposed to be the replacement Captain Commando function for example.

 

[Ivander]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

While I think they are more safe than most people believe, Corrin. Has some pretty cool animations, has one of my favorite win poses(the dragon form one), represents the Manaketes from Fire Emblem and I enjoy playing them alot.

Incineroar is another one I would miss alot if they cut, but I think they are decently safe thanks to being pretty unique.

 

[fogbadge]

A disgruntled middle-aged golfer that's just trying to play the hole but keeps getting bothered by the other fighters.

Sounds like someone I know

 

[Noipoi]

If they need to swap out some of the Pokemon and still want to keep the wrestling archetype, I’d love to see Bugzzy from Kirby.

View attachment 397187

But would he do funny poses?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ironically MvC3 was already guilty of that, Capcom confirmed that Crimson Viper was supposed to be the replacement Captain Commando function for example.

Got a source for that, buddy?

Like, I know Viper's got plenty of Cap. Commando allusions in her moveset even in SF4 but that doesn't automatically mean she's a replacement.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Got a source for that, buddy?

Like, I know Viper's got plenty of Cap. Commando allusions in her moveset even in SF4 but that doesn't automatically mean she's a replacement.

Well the MvC wiki says that Capcom confirmed C. Viper was based off of Captain Commando's moveset in MvC3, but they didn't cite a source and translating the development blog didn't help. So I'm just going to assume that even her SF4 moveset featuring Captain Commando nods is the proof.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Got a source for that, buddy?

Like, I know Viper's got plenty of Cap. Commando allusions in her moveset even in SF4 but that doesn't automatically mean she's a replacement.

IIRC C. Viper was supposed to be the finger breaker/high execution character and I don't remember that being the case for Captain Commando.

To be fair though, that's more in the context of Street Fighter. MvC3 also had Dante and Zero so it's definitely not exclusive to her there. lol

 

[Perkilator]

Pretty much every third party character except Steve

I definitely don’t see the likes of Sonic, Mega Man or PAC-MAN getting cut in favor of Steve, regardless of whether or not he comes back.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well the MvC wiki says that Capcom confirmed C. Viper was based off of Captain Commando's moveset in MvC3, but they didn't cite a source and translating the development blog didn't help. So I'm just going to assume that even her SF4 moveset featuring Captain Commando nods is the proof.

Didn't she come to Street Fighter IV first? I don't see how she could be a replacement for a Vs character if she was made for an entirely different series...

It'd kinda be like if Zeku was in the new Marvel Vs. Capcom, but not Strider. I don't think Zeku being a Strider reference makes him a replacement, they just didn't add Strider.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't remember that being the case for Captain Commando

It's hard to tell in MvC2 how much execution he really takes, because most people who use CapCom just spam his Corridor assist and give up if he's their last teammate standing.

Didn't she come to Street Fighter IV first? I don't see how she could be a replacement for a Vs character if she was made for an entirely different series...

I wasn't trying to say she was the CapCom function in that game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wasn't trying to say she was the CapCom function in that game.

You literally did though

Ironically MvC3 was already guilty of that, Capcom confirmed that Crimson Viper was supposed to be the replacement Captain Commando function for example.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You literally did though

"That game" being Street Fighter IV.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"That game" being Street Fighter IV.

Fair enough but still, being a reference and being an outright replacement are two different things. And Viper always felt like the former.

Because if being a reference equaled being a replacement, Seth's redesign in SFV would be the Darkstalkers and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure combined function when really, the new moves he's gotten is more Capcom being cheeky and giving moves from other fighting games they've worked on to the character known for copying moves.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"That game" being Street Fighter IV.

To clarify, I was still talking about MvC 3 in terms of her replacing Captain Commando, but with the context that C. Viper as a character being created for a different series that he's never been in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The only character in MvC3 you can make a legitimate case for being an outright replacement is Haggar being the Zangief function since copying each other's moves was a bit Capcom did during the 90s (Zangief took Haggar's Double Lariat and Haggar took Zangief's Spinning Piledriver).

And even then, Haggar has a LOT of stuff Zangief would never do due to Haggar's origins as a beat-em-up protagonist (lead pipe is a PERFECT example) so he's still very much his own thing; he just happens to also have Zangief's staple moves too.

Plus, it meant Final Fight got something in the Vs. series for once so it's ultimately a net positive.

 

[CannonStreak]

I have a very crazy question, and unfortunately, it is about AI, which I am sure we have talked about before.

Now, I remember hearing on the news that there was this Chess player who played against AI, and lost more times than they beat it. Thing is, this was one of the best players in the world competing against the AI.

With that, my question is this: What would happen if CPU players in Smash Bros. were literally controlled by AI that was so smart? It doesn't have to be as smart as the one who kept beating that Chess player, but anywhere closer to it. I mean, it would be a nightmare to play against such CPU controlled fighters, wouldn't it?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I have a very crazy question, and unfortunately, it is about AI, which I am sure we have talked about before.

Now, I remember hearing on the news that there was this Chess player who played against AI, and lost more times than they beat it. Thing is, this was one of the best players in the world competing against the AI.

With that, my question is this: What would happen if CPU players in Smash Bros. were literally controlled by AI that was so smart? It doesn't have to be as smart as the one who kept beating that Chess player, but anywhere closer to it. I mean, it would be a nightmare to play against such CPU controlled fighters, wouldn't it?

I'd rather see that than see the hellspawn monstrosity that is Slap City's reallyjoel's dad difficulty, tbh.

 

[SPEN18]

Gotta say, really not vibing with these notions that ROB, GW, and ICs are somehow way safe but Duck Hunt and Wii Fit are not.

Like, you can't gush about the legacy and moveset niches of the former three without also acknowledging the same merits of the other two. Let me remind that Duck Hunt and Wii Fit were both near the very tip-tops of the NES and Wii sales charts, respectively, and had more pull among casual gamers than, well, actually most Nintendo series generally. They're unique genres that bring in unique audiences, which come to life in Smash in pretty novel ways considering that source material.

Just sayin, out of the non-relevant series these two are pretty much the most prolific and widely recognized, so don't brush them aside so quickly.

Sometimes it seems as though the likes of ICs and whatnot get given a bunch of bonus points just for being in Smash longer. When it's easily possible Sakurai couldn't come up with a moveset for DH until 4 (just like Villager), and Wii Fit didn't exist until later. Don't unfairly penalize them for being newer additions, nor for having perceivedly more niche playstyles when comparing them to others whose playstyles are likely just as niche in the grand scheme.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'd rather see that than see the hellspawn monstrosity that is Slap City's reallyjoel's dad difficulty, tbh.

Just make that setting exclusive to Fishbunjin when he gets added. :V

 

[DarthEnderX]

Let's just argue which characters we feel are 100% guaranteed then.

Didn't she come to Street Fighter IV first? I don't see how she could be a replacement for a Vs character if she was made for an entirely different series...

Well, it's about having a similar moveset and serving the same function.

For example, if I were making Capcom vs. Capcom, and wanted to make a replacement for MODOK, I might use, say, Dr. Wily in Wily Capsule 7. Floating around in a little hoverpod, shooting lots of energy projectiles.

Now obviously, Wily wasn't created for CvC. But if his moveset is similar, I can call him a replacement for MODOK.

Or if I wanted to make a replacement for Captain America, I might go with Protoman, or Trojan.

Gotta say, really not vibing with these notions that ROB, GW, and ICs are somehow way safe but Duck Hunt and Wii Fit are not.

None of them should be safe.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

What wtf character do you think we'll get in the mext smash?

Nintendonald.

A robot made of every single Nintendo console, with the Switch 2 as the head.