Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

Pretty much every third party character except Steve

The second reign of Steve in Smash's competitive scene will come some day.

Nintendonald.

A robot made of every single Nintendo console, with the Switch 2 as the head.

One of it's taunts, is the Ran Ran Ru!!!!

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

Joker probably. Tho I would be fine in the end with him getting cut if we at least get another Persona character playable in the roster.

 

[Gengar84]

While that would be cool, I am not a fan of the idea of "oh, if we're cutting this character, we can always just add someone similar"

It gives me the same vibes as MvC Infinite's infamously bad PR. Specifically the "functions" argument.

If they cut Incineroar, it means they don't see much value in a wrestler because if they did, they wouldn't have cut Incineroar in the first place.

Fair enough. I just want Bugzzy anyways and that’s a good excuse to add it. I think cutting Incineroar would be more likely to keep the Pokémon from dominating the rest of the roster. If he gets cut, it’s more likely to make room for other Pokemon without bloating the roster than anything against the wrestler style.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gotta say, really not vibing with these notions that ROB, GW, and ICs are somehow way safe but Duck Hunt and Wii Fit are not.

Like, you can't gush about the legacy and moveset niches of the former three without also acknowledging the same merits of the other two. Let me remind that Duck Hunt and Wii Fit were both near the very tip-tops of the NES and Wii sales charts, respectively, and had more pull among casual gamers than, well, actually most Nintendo series generally. They're unique genres that bring in unique audiences, which come to life in Smash in pretty novel ways considering that source material.

Just sayin, out of the non-relevant series these two are pretty much the most prolific and widely recognized, so don't brush them aside so quickly.

Sometimes it seems as though the likes of ICs and whatnot get given a bunch of bonus points just for being in Smash longer. When it's easily possible Sakurai couldn't come up with a moveset for DH until 4 (just like Villager), and Wii Fit didn't exist until later. Don't unfairly penalize them for being newer additions, nor for having perceivedly more niche playstyles when comparing them to others whose playstyles are likely just as niche in the grand scheme.

Yeah, I don't know why people are arguing that Ice Climbers, a character who was already cut once, is guaranteed to return. I can understand Mr. Game and Watch being guaranteed. I'd argue he's essential to Smash's identity at this point. But I can't say that Ice Climbers are more likely to return than R.O.B. Duck Hunt and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, I don't know why people are arguing that Ice Climbers, a character who was already cut once, is guaranteed to return

They were only cut because the 3DS couldn't handle them, and I doubt the Switch 2 is going to be too weak to handle 8 Popos and Nanas unless Smash 6's models are really detailed, and I don't see why they would do that.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah, I don't know why people are arguing that Ice Climbers, a character who was already cut once, is guaranteed to return. I can understand Mr. Game and Watch being guaranteed. I'd argue he's essential to Smash's identity at this point. But I can't say that Ice Climbers are more likely to return than R.O.B. Duck Hunt and Wii Fit Trainer.

Being fair, the only reason they were cut was because of hardware issues due to the 3DS rather than being "lower priority" like most other cuts and were fully intended to return.

That being said, I do agree it's yet another example of attributing tenure to one character while treating a similar later addition as more "expendable" for the sin of....being added later.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah, I don't know why people are arguing that Ice Climbers, a character who was already cut once, is guaranteed to return. I can understand Mr. Game and Watch being guaranteed. I'd argue he's essential to Smash's identity at this point. But I can't say that Ice Climbers are more likely to return than R.O.B. Duck Hunt and Wii Fit Trainer.

I mean, Icies were only cut due to technical limitations, but aside from that since others have brought it up, I'm of the opinion that all of these characters will return anyway since we've never lost a full first party series ASIDE from the Ice Climbers' specific circumstance in Smash 4 lol

I'm also still of the opinion that we might get a bigger roster count than we think because of Bandai's specific team streamlining the process and still presumably being able to use all of Ultimate's assets at least as a base, but I'm kind of in a weird spot where I think that MIGHT happen, but I'm trying to keep expectations a little neutered just in case lol

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think that elder scrolls could get favoritism due to both being a bigger IP, but also because his mii costume got first, also, i think that it's bigger that doom in Japan and obviously it's a less violent IP.

Their Mii costumes came out just months apart from each other and the violence didn't stop characters like Bayonetta from getting in Smash, so that's irrelevant. Also, DOOM's legacy in video games, as being the pioneer of the FPS genre and other things plays a major factor in Doom Slayer's chances for being in Smash. Elder Scrolls is not going to change that.

I find it strange how you didn't mention Elder Scrolls in your initial post but it's not until I brought up DOOM was when all of a sudden you decided mention it.

 

[Kirbeh]

Anyway, let me ask you all something: Which character who you enjoyed playing as but may be cut next Smash Brothers game would you miss by a lot?

Most of the characters I like to play honestly.

are the ones I see being in the most danger.

I see as more likely to return than not.

I see as being pretty safe, with some guaranteed like DK.

 

[Ivander]

With that, my question is this: What would happen if CPU players in Smash Bros. were literally controlled by AI that was so smart? It doesn't have to be as smart as the one who kept beating that Chess player, but anywhere closer to it. I mean, it would be a nightmare to play against such CPU controlled fighters, wouldn't it?

I mean, to some extent last time I checked, that's what the Amiibo feature for Smash is kinda like. Alot of AI-related stuff regarding AI becoming good at something is often the AI constantly learning from it's past mistakes until it finds what it needs to do and it goes from there and rinse and repeats until it eventually finds what is commonly the best approach and whatnot, which I think is the same for Amiibo in Smash Bros.

That aside, as long as it's optional, I don't see an issue with it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm also still of the opinion that we might get a bigger roster count than we think because of Bandai's specific team streamlining the process and still presumably being able to use all of Ultimate's assets at least as a base, but I'm kind of in a weird spot where I think that MIGHT happen, but I'm trying to keep expectations a little neutered just in case lol

I've argued that one reason we might not get everyone back is that they might want to remodel everyone from the ground up to make full use of the Switch 2's hardware, but with how you don't see characters in Smash up close outside of pausing the game or victory screens, character models more detailed than Pyra's might be a waste of polygons. Not to mention there are techniques like tessellation and displacement mapping that can be employed to make old models look higher-poly than they really are.

That said I don't think that means SSBU's character models are all perfect, IE: Chrom, Shulk. They're going to need more work than either of those two techniques can do.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

That being said, I don't even know why we're dooming all of a sudden.

Even if Duck Hunt (the character) was added for the purpose of a token "surprise character", there's still the fact that Duck Hunt (the game) is significant to Nintendo history as the NES/Famicom's 2nd biggest best seller and was (at the time of inclusion), the most successful shooting game of all time.

Kind of a huge deal to just say "yeah, they're gonna be potentially scrapped" compared to the Ice Climbers, whose only significance for the franchise is....being in Smash.

 

[Ivander]

That being said, I don't even know why we're dooming all of a sudden.

Maybe they don't think so much that Duck Hunt is doomed to be cut as much as they want them doomed to be cut. We all know why some people would want them to be.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Maybe they don't think so much that Duck Hunt is doomed to be cut as much as they want them doomed to be cut. We all know why some people would want them to be.

Mr. Peepers did nothing wrong.

 

[Kirbeh]

Very personal take here, but I think a lot of Smash's models look bad. Well, the faces specifically, with a big part being the limited facial animation.

I don't think they're going to make brand new models just yet, (just more touch ups,) and so long as they target the faces, that can go a long way. The only characters who I can see actually getting new models are probably Samus, to update her armor and finally move away from Other M, and Shulk, to update his look to that of DE and unify the overall look of Xenoblade characters. (And likely some changes in the Inkling and Villager lineups.)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Very personal take here, but I think a lot of Smash's models look bad. Well, the faces specifically, with a big part being the limited facial animation.

I don't think they're going to make brand new models just yet, (just more touch ups,) and so long as they target the faces, that can go a long way. The only characters who I can see actually getting new models are probably Samus, to update her armor and finally move away from Other M, and Shulk, to update his look to that of DE and unify the overall look of Xenoblade characters. (And likely some changes in the Inkling and Villager lineups.)

Me saying "they could just tessellate the old models" wasn't me trying to say they were perfect already. As you said regarding facial animations, the Switch 2 will enforce more touchups than tessellation can provide on its own. Not to mention that I think a lot of characters' hair looks a bit too much like clay.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Switch 2's console power is projected to be PS4/PS4 Pro from the leaked specs. Comparatively, the Switch was about as strong as a theoretical PS3 Pro would be. In relative terms, if the specs are accurate, I think that's a leap in graphical power comparable to the leap from the Wii to Wii U.

And that leap was strong enough to mandate all new models for each returning character from Brawl in Smash Wii U, so if this is right, I expect history to repeat itself.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Switch 2's console power is projected to be PS4/PS4 Pro from the leaked specs. Compartively, the Switch was about as strong as a theoretical PS3 Pro would be. In relative terms, if the specs are accurate, I think that's a leap in graphical power comparable to the leap from the Wii to Wii U.

And that leap was strong enough to mandate all new models for each returning character from Brawl in Smash Wii U, so if this is right, I expect history to repeat itself.

I mean I understand Smash 4 needing new models because the Wii U was Nintendo's first HD console coming up from the Wii running at like 480p/576i/whatever resolution it could use.

That being said, while I do think models will be touched up and some characters will get new models (Samus, hopefully Shulk), at some point there's only so much you can do in a fighting game where the camera is a bit far away in most cases. Pyra and Mythra are the most high-poly models in Ultimate, but it's not like they stand out/contrast with everyone else's models to an egregious level.

So basically, while they could make brand new models for everyone, I feel like it would mostly be things like upping polygon counts and texture work, which I would ASSUME (though I'm obviously no expert, so I could be completely wrong) you could at least use Ultimate's models as a base for reworking.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And that leap was strong enough to mandate all new models for each returning character from Brawl in Smash Wii U, so if this is right, I expect history to repeat itself.

At the same time, there's cases where models meant for the 360/PS3 are still being used to this day, like in racing games, where 7th-gen racers were already featuring laser-scanned car models with hundreds of thousands of polygons. Anything beyond that would've been diminishing returns, so GT and Forza still have plenty of 10+ year old car models.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

At the same time, there's cases where models meant for the 360/PS3 are still being used to this day.

True, they'll def reuse some models where they can. Smash Wii U reused a lot of stage models, and I imagine Smash 6 would do that too since most of what players will be focusing on in a match are the characters.

So basically, while they could make brand new models for everyone, I feel like it would mostly be things like upping polygon counts and texture work, which I would ASSUME (though I'm obviously no expert, so I could be completely wrong) you could at least use Ultimate's models as a base for reworking.

They probably could reuse the old player models, but I don't think Sakurai would. He is not the type to settle for "good enough", every Smash game has pushed its respective console to its graphical limits. So I think he'd insist on doing the same with Smash 6, especially since Switch 2 would be the first major leap in power since the Wii U.

Granted you're right about diminishing returns, so this could be the last time something like this happens unless Nintendo pulls wizard magic on Switch 3 or whatever the ****. But as long as graphical leaps stay noticeable, I think Sakurai'll keep doing as Sakurai does

 

[Kirbeh]

Me saying "they could just tessellate the old models" wasn't me trying to say they were perfect already. As you said regarding facial animations, the Switch 2 will enforce more touchups than tessellation can provide on its own. Not to mention that I think a lot of characters' hair looks a bit too much like clay.

I wasn't saying you were saying that though? My comment wasn't even a direct response to yours.

I was jumping off of you bringing up the models in the first place for the topic change, but I didn't address anything you were saying at all.

That aside, I agree on the "clay" look. Lots of the fur and hair looks off, in addition to very stiff doll-like faces on most of the human characters.

Regarding animation, one that always comes to mind especially is one of Mac's where his jaw is hanging open and almost jump cuts to being closed. It just looks bad. I can understand not adjusting as much during normal gameplay, but I feel like they could've taken more care for the instances where we do see the models from up close.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So… priority lists? Might as well give out my personal attempt.

Spoiler: Priority List of Veterans

The Core 12 (mostly) (1-11)
​

If we’re dealing with an untouchable 12, it’s looks much more like this rather than the ‘original 12’. Like it or not, these are Nintendo’s best and brightest today.

There are few choices you could swap out for other factors, such as popularity, recency, or relevancy, with alternate choices such as being valid examples.

The Extra Mario Character Coin Toss (12-14)
​

This is probably the hardest choice, and is where cuts will come down the absolute hardest. Yoshi has the priority of being in the original 8, Luigi is probably the most successful with Luigi’s Mansion, and Wario could sneak his way in. If the roster is bigger than 64’s all of these guys will make it in.

Key Secondary Veterans (15-26)

​

These guys are mostly unquestionable. Boosting up to Melee’s roster s, it’s important to maintain the legacy of many characters, whilst also paying more dues to post-Millenium series as new series mainstays (at least for a few games).

stands a better chance at being a future mainstay than his fellow villain, is still very popular, hails from FE’s best selling outing, makes a lot of sense to bring back, and seem to be accepted as the best implementation of transforming characters, and again, their series’s most popular game.

Secondary Legacy Series (27-32)
​

These guys are mostly the key ‘legacy’ series to bring back. I think these guys are lower priority due to the position of their series, but as legacy characters, they’re not going anywhere unless things get dire.

Supporting Veterans (33-44)

​

Hailing from major series, these extra supplementary veterans build up series a bunch more. It may seem a bit low at first glance for or , but weighing everything, it made sense for me. We’re also now beyond Brawl’s roster size, and at half of Ultimate’s. The Miis are also here.

Third Parties Join the Brawl! (45-51)
​

These guys are the third parties that make the most sense to return in my eyes. I think we all underestimate Tekken returning. We’ve also reached a point where I feel more comfortable in bringing in third parties.

Likely Veteran Echoes (Around 3)
​

Time to talk about Echo Fighters. They are clones. They are derivative. They are saved until the back end of development. But I believe at least 2 out of 3 of these guys are coming back.

is the real standout pick here, having Mario Wonder to help her chances, as well as being a Mario Princess is a safety net if actually was low priority compared to .

It really does feel a toss up between or coming back. I think the longer we don’t hear about Metroid Prime 2 or 3 getting remasters, the more I’ll start leaning towards making it in over .

DLC? Maybe? Or the tail end of development? (52-57)
​

These six are on the cliff’s edge. I can see them being pulled in any direction, such as the base roster, DLC, or straight up being cut. barely seems to squeak in.

The Unfortunate 29 (in my eyes)
(58-82 + 4 echoes)


​

This is what no one really wants to see. Please, stay calm. But these are the batch of characters I think will be cut first.

Some could come back in the future. I think has a non-zero chance of taking ‘s spot. could get a rework some day and become a whole new fighter. Who knows, maybe popularity will bring back again.

But these are just the batch of faces I am the least confident in. This list is in no way a super accurate measurement of who Sakurai will prioritise, but it’s the measurement of who I would prioritise in Sakurai’s situation with the looming event of cuts, heartbreak, and simply moving on from Ultimate.

This is going to be a tough one.

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

I'm surprised duck hunt is getting thr cut for alot of you. For me it seems to make sense if one retro character nakes it in its Duckhunt. Its iconic compared to iceclimbers, game and watcch and R. O. B. It sold extremely well on the NES and has a following to this day... Will their moveset change... Possibly.
Duck hunt is too much of an icon for retro gaming with Little Mac being the only character on par imo.. Oh and Mac getting the cut is unlikely if Sakurai considered his popularity before he made it in a smash game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just to keep in mind about Clones/Echoes;

-Even if they're worked on at the end of development, they are not always planned to be in that late originally.
-64, Melee, and Smash 4 are the only ones where it's the actual case that they were thought up later.
-Brawl had an entire list planned originally. Some didn't make it in, or was worked on later(Yes, Wolf and Jigglypuff were always meant to be in, same with the Forbidden 7. What it really meant in the development phase is that Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff got almost cut before being worked on, not that they weren't planned from the start).
-Ultimate had the entire base roster planned from the start. Chrom was always going to be in, etc. They weren't "late additions", but we can only really be clear that Richter was designed with Simon together at best as a reasonable guess. The rest have no clear time of when they were worked on. Maybe they were worked on very late, maybe not. We at most know the first DLC had some design pieces(PP) in a demo build, but that was around August/September, a little bit before the game actually released.

Thus, the whole "end of development" isn't identical in each game, which also means that Ultimate broke the entire mold of the design document. This is also the only time where no character was scrapped during the design phase or development phase for the base game. This is a big deal because it shows things aren't simple in how it works. Generally, Echoes may already be intended from the start due to ease of creation, but clones like in Melee may not fall into this category(which Ultimate did not have any new character akin to that. Isabelle was a tad too different from Villager to be a Melee-style clone. She's given way too much unique factors. She's no Wolf, mind you, but does feel a bit closer to the current Jigglypuff or Lucas).

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

I'm surprised duck hunt is getting thr cut for alot of you. For me it seems to make sense if one retro character nakes it in its Duckhunt.

I would agree if not for Game & Watch. He may not be more popular externally but in Smash, he's kinda the retro fan favorite, and I feel he's on par with characters like Ness and Captain Falcon with how Smash associated he is. I'd put Duck Hunt at 2nd for the retros though, mostly for the reasons you said.

...Well since you mentioned him I'd put Little Mac slightly higher than G&W but I don't treat him as a pure retro, he's more like Pit to me.

 

[Ivander]

I think Ultimate was the case where aside from a few characters, most of the characters from Smash 4 to Ultimate simply getting touch-ups and not major changes was because of trying to save up on money and resources for the sake of being able to do the more expensive stuff like the new 3rd Parties, Everybody is Here, the Newcomer Trailers and whatnot.

I think it's likely that every characters' models will get more major changes than just touch-ups for the next game, especially depending on how many characters come back. Pyra and Mythra might just get touched up since their models are the Xenoblade 2 models which were already very detailed and characters from newer games could just have their models ported and touched up, especially if the Switch 2 is as strong as it's rumoured to be.
---
That said, I hope in regards to the Fire Emblem characters that they do not base all the currant characters on their Engage models. Marth, maybe as an Alt(since his Engage look does have a bit of design changes from his original look and they could reference the Emblem Aura and whatnot), but not for all of the FE characters in Smash. I don't think they look bad, but they definitely look a bit too same-y, which Fire Emblem characters get plenty of flack for already. I want all the FE characters to have their models get some major changes, especially facial features, but for each character, I want them to be around the artstyle/design of their respective games(or remakes in Marth's case).

• Daisuke Izuka for Marth.
• Sachiko Wada for Roy. Same for Lyn if Lyn somehow gets in.
• Kita Senri for Ike.
• Yusuke Kozaki for the Awakening cast and Corrin. Same for Veronica from Fire Emblem Heroes if she gets in(or just about any of Heroes' cast from the main cast, Book 3, 5, 6 and 8).
• Chinatsu Kurahana for Byleth. Same for Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude if any of them get in.
• And if Alear gets in, obviously let their designs be based on Mika Pikazo's design and artstyle.
• And for a bonus mention, if Alm or Celica get in, base them around their Hidari designs and art.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's starting to get concerning how many people view Diddy Kong and Meta Knight as expendable.

 

[fogbadge]

It's starting to get concerning how many people view Diddy Kong and Meta Knight as expendable.

I can’t believe anyone would think sakurai would cut meta knight

 

[BritishGuy54]

It's starting to get concerning how many people view Diddy Kong and Meta Knight as expendable.

Diddy… hasn’t been dealt the best hand recently. It took nearly a decade for him to join Mario Kart 8, which already wasn’t too big on exploring Mario spin-offs, plus DKC also taking a hiatus for a new game.

Couple that with not trying to overwhelm the roster with the common complaint ‘too much Mario’, Diddy will likely be seen as lower priority compared to Peach, Zelda, or even Ridley and Isabelle.

Meta Knight is the weird one, but if series balance is a priority, I’m hesitant on Kirby having all three characters in a Melee sized roster.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all!

Re: Ice Climbers

This conversation feels a bit like folks talking past each other. We all know Icies were cut because of 3DS limitations, but that isn’t mutually exclusive to the claim that the series they represent is almost certainly at the very bottom in terms of modern relevance and historical significance to Nintendo. And when brainstorming a new roster, the fact that they are incredibly unique will inevitably be weighed against them being relatively (emphasis on relatively) unpopular, insignificant and a confirmed menace to implement.

And yeah being excluded from Smash 4 shouldn’t be used as evidence that they would be low priority next time, buuut it does show that they, pretty much definitionally, are not a necessity. I think they’ll return. I do get the impression that Sakurai likes them quite a lot and values the unique flair they bring to the roster, but I won’t be blindsided at all if they’re left out again.

Re: Retro and surprise characters

The conversation about which characters go in the “retro” or “surprise” box is fun, but feels a little arbitrary at this point. I know these are both terms Sakurai himself used and post-Brawl we had Ice Climbers and Pit as retro picks, and G&W and R.O.B. as surprise picks and those distinctions made sense and were mostly useful in predicting Smash 4’s roster, but then Ultimate didn’t have a traditional retro character and gave us Plant who was so different from previous surprises.

And for Smash 4, I always thought Wii Fit was our surprise and Duck Hunt was our retro, but then some argue that Duck Hunt was the surprise and that Little Mac was the retro pick? And Wii Fit was just its own thing? It feels like revisionism because it’s just easier to draw a line between G&W / R.O.B. / Duck Hunt, since they are all classic characters and “old obscure hardware” reps, but anyone who was around for Wii Fit or Plant know that literally zero people were predicting them, while Duck Hunt was consistently suggested. I also see some try to mark K. Rool, or Simon as Ultimate’s “retro rep,” but would that qualify Mega Man as a retro rep, too? Did Smash 4 actually have as much as three retro reps?

Not trying to make a grand statement, just poking fun at how silly our obsession with categorizing characters is and how much we bend and twist things to force a pattern to exist when roster selection is always gonna be way more complicated than “New Smash game! We need exactly one retro character, one surprise character, one new Pokemon, one new Marth, etc.”

 

[fogbadge]

Diddy… hasn’t been dealt the best hand recently. It took nearly a decade for him to join Mario Kart 8, which already wasn’t too big on exploring Mario spin-offs, plus DKC also taking a hiatus for a new game.

Couple that with not trying to overwhelm the roster with the common complaint ‘too much Mario’, Diddy will likely be seen as lower priority compared to Peach, Zelda, or even Ridley and Isabelle.

Meta Knight is the weird one, but if series balance is a priority, I’m hesitant on Kirby having all three characters in a Melee sized roster.

well I think we can assume series balance isn’t a priority otherwise no would say too much Mario

but meta knight is part of sakurais holy trinity of Kirby characters and diddy is a major character within the DK series. Both of them were natural choices for smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

characters from newer games could just have their models ported and touched up

They could, but Smash typically prefers to make its own models for playable characters. It's mostly NPCs who reuse models from other games, and even then not all of them, like assists.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Diddy… hasn’t been dealt the best hand recently. It took nearly a decade for him to join Mario Kart 8, which already wasn’t too big on exploring Mario spin-offs, plus DKC also taking a hiatus for a new game.

Couple that with not trying to overwhelm the roster with the common complaint ‘too much Mario’, Diddy will likely be seen as lower priority compared to Peach, Zelda, or even Ridley and Isabelle.

Meta Knight is the weird one, but if series balance is a priority, I’m hesitant on Kirby having all three characters in a Melee sized roster.

I still don't see how that makes him eligible for cutting out of the roster. He is still an important character, AND even King K. Rool, a favorite of mine, is more likely for cut for having more reasons. I mean, I am sure there were good characters in the Smash series who still got cut unexpectedly, and I don't see Diddy as one of them.

 

[Ivander]

How could you cut Meta-Knight? Not only is he probably the most unique Sword-user out of all the sword users in Smash, but he's probably the most famous video game equivalent for the whole "Giving your opponent a sword to fight on equal grounds." trope.

They could, but Smash typically prefers to make its own models for playable characters. It's mostly NPCs who reuse models from other games, and even then not all of them, like assists.

I mean, we know from interviews that Pyra and Mythra are their Xenoblade 2 model that had be touched upon to fit them onto the game. If they were okay with doing that for Pyra and Mythra, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it for other Xenoblade characters like Noah, Mio or Shulk's DE look. And I think the Three Houses characters in the background were also their in-game models, but even then, it wouldn't be hard to imagine Alear's models being used for their Smash Bros. models.

Sure, there's the possibility that those characters might get their own models to fit in more with the Smash Bros. aesthetic they set up, but depending on what they want to do, it's not unlikely for them to do another Pyra/Mythra with another character they want for Smash Bros.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I would agree if not for Game & Watch. He may not be more popular externally but in Smash, he's kinda the retro fan favorite, and I feel he's on par with characters like Ness and Captain Falcon with how Smash associated he is. I'd put Duck Hunt at 2nd for the retros though, mostly for the reasons you said.

...Well since you mentioned him I'd put Little Mac slightly higher than G&W but I don't really treat him like a pure retro, he's more like Pit to me.

I mean G&W is pretty much guaranteed anyway. Even without his popularity within Smash Bros., he's one of the oldest characters on the roster, releasing a year before Donkey Kong hit arcades. There was stuff like EVR-RACE and the Color-TV Games before him, but the Game & Watch units sold a collective 43 million units and was their first ever huge hit in the industry.

G&W has a huuuuge legacy draw, basically.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Couple that with not trying to overwhelm the roster with the common complaint ‘too much Mario’, Diddy will likely be seen as lower priority compared to Peach, Zelda, or even Ridley and Isabelle.

But... Diddy ISN'T a Mario character. He's a Donkey Kong character. He isn't treated like a pseudo Mario character like Yoshi is.

 

[StormC]

I don’t think there’s any world where Diddy Kong is considered lower priority than Ridley. Ridley doesn’t have his own theme park!

 

[Opossum]

On one hand I very much disagree with the characters some people have been bringing up lately as cut candidates.

On the other hand, people also need to realize that if there's a good amount of cuts next time, it's not going to stop at Pichu and Young Link. There will be characters cut who "shouldn't have been" cut, or "couldn't possibly be" cut. You could make strong cases for almost every character on the roster to be kept...but at some point there's going to be a cut-off. If the next game has about fifty veterans and twelve newcomers, what many see as being toward the upper limit based on what happened in Ultimate, that's 39 characters cut right off the bat. At some point you need to make a list of who those 39 are, and odds are they'll include characters seen as untouchable by at least someone.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don’t think there’s any world where Diddy Kong is considered lower priority than Ridley. Ridley doesn’t have his own theme park!

Hey that's not Ridley's fault.

His attempt at a theme park was wildly unpopular. People didn't want a theme park where your parents got eaten.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

You know, I can see why characters that are retro picks would be surprise picks for Smash, I mean, being absent until 4, a character like Duck Hunt would not be expected to join a game like Smash Bros., which makes them more surprising, even if they are retro. I just don't think the retro thing could be ruled out that easily. I am aware of Sakurai's decision and all, and I admit the following is not going to be important because it is not really a good comparison, but Sakurai has made mistakes and has not been accurate to characters that much from different games. That said, while it is official Sakurai picked some retro characters as surprise picks, they are still retro. The surprise pick thing is more important, but Sakurai has had to deal with many characters from different game series as well, and not all of them were done justice, too. It ain't inaccurate to call them surprise picks based on Sakurai's word, and in fact, it can be very accurate, but I do think that because of dealing with many characters from different series, and his overall performance with characters at times, while that may not be a good comparison, a surprise pick can still be retro.

So I would not be surprise if Sakurai let the retro thing slip by him, even if intentionally.

But that is not going to be considered important. I was just saying my peace.

However, the real thing I want to say is...

I mentioned King K. Rool, and how likely he is to be cut before Diddy. One thing I brought up when talking about Geno from Mario RPG is that he and K. Rool have had fan demand on their side. They are different characters as someone else mentioned, but that comparison is not important. The important thing is K. Rool alone having fan demand only. Not actually including Geno here. The thing is, fan demand can only do so much to get a character to stay in Smash in my opinion. Unless K. Rool appears in a new game, fan demand can only do so much to prevent him from being cut, is it not?

I know we were not talking about fan demand in particular, but I just wanted to mention that, if that is okay.