Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Master_Scorpion]

Lol. "Switch 2's other games won't sell if everyone is thinkin' about Smash!"

Complete nonsense.

I didn't.

Just wondering who you would want for unique 1st party characters since most of your favorites are 3rd party?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just wondering who you would want for unique 1st party characters since most of your favorites are 3rd party?

Captain Toad/Toadette
King Hippo
Mii Mage

Obviously, that's an unrealistically small number. But it's really the only ones I'm interested in.

...maybe Garchomp.

 

[BuckleyTim]

It's sucks that Fortnite will probably be in the next smash. That game hits a new low every time I look at it.

 

[Gengar84]

It's sucks that Fortnite will probably be in the next smash. That game hits a new low every time I look at it.

Any game that gave me this can’t be all bad

 

[SneakyLink]

It's sucks that Fortnite will probably be in the next smash. That game hits a new low every time I look at it.

I assume this is in reference to the upcoming Skidibi Toilet collab? (before anyone asks, yes, it is real)

If so, I wouldn't worry. Smash generally tries to focus on what makes something fun and in Fortnite's case, it would be building and maybe some of the wacky items the game has.

Also, collabs wouldn't be referenced in Smash (minus Gaming but that's another license).

 

[Perkilator]

What do you guys think of this Sonic overhaul mod?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Alright, I made a new Smash 6 roster. Like the last one, I tried to balance popular characters the general public really wanted and my own personal choices just to keep things interesting. I tried to make the choices at least semi realistic. For the base roster, I kept it to Ultimate's 84 characters but made a good deal of cuts and additions to keep it fresh even if the total roster isn't larger. I also made three Fighter's Passes to get the roster up to 100 characters by the end of the DLC. I think a slightly more realistic approach is to cut six newcomers from the base game to fill out a fourth fighter's pass so the starting roster is only 78 instead of 84.

So for the base roster, here's what I was thinking:

Base Roster:

Cuts:

Dr. Mario
Toon Link
Young Link
Jigglypuff
Pichu
Incineroar
Roy
Corrin
Chrom
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Duck Hunt
Wii Fit Trainer
Mii
Bayonetta
Steve
Snake

Newcomers:

Waluigi (Super Mario)
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
Impa (Legend of Zelda)
Zoroark/Hisuian Zoraork (Pokemon)
Team Rocket (Pokemon)
Bandana Dee (Kirby)
Elfilis (Kirby)
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
E.M.M.I. (Metroid)
Octoling (Splatoon)
DJ Octavio (Splatoon)
Elma (Xenoblade)
Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western)
Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic)
Zero (Mega Man)
Alphen and Shionne (Tales of)
Ryu Hyabusa (Ninja Gaiden)

View attachment 396976

For the Fighter's passes, I leaned a bit more towards my personal preferences but wanted to keep the choices at least somewhat realistic and be able to make a solid argument for each inclusion.

So here's the breakdown for the first pass:

Fighter's Pass 1:

Jinx (League of Legends)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
Rash (Battletoads) with Zitz and Pimple as alts
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors)
Midna (Legend of Zelda)
Bill Rizer (Contra) with Lance Bean as an alt

View attachment 396977

For Fighter's Pass 2, I wanted to lead with a first party character, so I went with an iconic Pokemon and one of my most wanted characters:

Fighter's Pass 2:

Gengar (Pokemon)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Etna (Disgaea)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)

View attachment 396978

I wanted to start off the last Fighter's Pass with a popular character and end with a big surprise that's both very popular and one that not many expect like Sora:

Fighter's Pass 3:

Yuna (Final Fantasy)
Tails (Sonic)
Kunio (River City) with Riki as an alt
Illidan (WarCraft)
Bomberman (Bomberman)
Scorpion (Mortal Kombat) with Sub-Zero as a semiclone with unique specials, taunts, and final smash

View attachment 396979

I like to mix in a good amount of unexpected choices because I feel like it would be boring to only include the most speculated characters with no surprises. I think this final roster does a good job at bringing in a lot of expected fan favorites with characters that no one really saw coming. The final roster size of just over 100 characters post DLC might be a bit too ambitious but I don't think it's impossible, especially if you cut some characters from the base roster for one or two more fighter's passes. Ideally, we'd get cut veterans back periodically separate from the Fighter's Passes at a reduced price.

Other ideas:

I had a few ideas for game modes and other content as well. First, every character will be playable from the start without the need to unlock them but using each character in various modes will unlock alternate outfits, trophies, and other things for them. Each character will have at least one unique model alternate outfit unlocked through completing their classic mode. There will also be a color editor for outfits with limitations for third party characters that don't want certain colors edited.

New side mode: Playable bosses and assist trophies

This mode will allow players to control the game's bosses and assist trophies but they aren't balanced for competitive play. The bosses and trophies don't have any additional moves but the players can control what they do have. I loved being able to play as Master Hand in World of Light so this would be a cool expansion to that. For those wondering why Eggman wasn't on the roster, I think a new playable boss is the perfect spot for him since he wouldn't have to sacrifice the size of his huge mechs to be a normal character.

New side mode: Boss rush mode

Upgrade to Stage Builder:

In addition to adding many more parts and backgrounds for normal stages, you'll also have the option from the start to select whether you want the stage to be a normal stage, Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, or Race to the Finish. This way players can create their own character specific mini game stages and upload them online without Sakurai having to spend too much development time on it. You'll also be able to select spawn points for each option.

New co-op adventure platforming mode similar to Sub-Space Emissary

Final Thoughts:

I admit that this is probably all a little ambitious and possibly not completely realistic but this would be what I'd consider to be my dream Smash game. It will be interesting to see how much if any of this actually becomes a reality in the next Smash. So what do you think? Would you be happy with this roster and the modes, even if they might be slightly too ambitious? I don't expect everyone to agree with my choices and I admit that a good part of this is personal bias, but that's just part of the fun for me. It would be boring if we didn't each bring our own ideas and flare to the game.

I already lost interest in the roster after seeing the majority of the cuts, honestly.

Most of the DLC picks are cool, though. I just think a few like Rash and maybe Bill Rizer might not be well-known enough to modern audiences draw more players or purchases. Same goes for a few others who are from older and/or more dormant IPs.

 

[Louie G.]

Fortnite and Smash just have different perspectives on crossover. I don’t consider Fortnite’s wide, sometimes comedically offputting reach of collaborations to be a knock against it because that’s simply what it is. It kinda transcends being a singular game and is transforming into more of a platform / playground.

Nintendo would be in on the fun too, if Fortnite agreed to console exclusive skins. Which they didn’t, so they’re not. So you’re spared the trauma of Samus wearing a Skibidi Toilet back bling for now.

Fortnite in Smash is a prospect I don’t mind thinking about but I’m still not certain what to make of. Its scale almost supersedes Smash to me but Nintendo’s own stake in the game and recognition of its value convinces me it’s at least on the table. Frankly even if it doesn’t excite me a whole lot I think it’s a waste to continue to be sour about it… it’s clearly here to stay, so make of that what you will.

I have a similar dissociation with people who treated Steve like such an alien concept. I don’t have much attachment to Minecraft myself, but at that point it had been around for a decade. At some point these things graduate from being the trendy craze for kids and just settle into being a consistent cultural presence. Fortnite has made it there, Minecraft did years ago. Once upon a time that was Pac-Man or Sonic.

All in all though I think the odds of Fortnite in Smash are more questionable than some people treat it to be. I see us getting some themed Mii Costumes at some point but a playable character and full slew of content is something I flip flop more on. Just because something is big and popular doesn’t entitle it to a character, anyway.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sure, like I said, I'd much rather not cut anything at all but I was trying to be realistic. For Steve and Mii, they are both extremely resource intensive so cutting them saves up development resources for a larger number of characters. Steve is also disliked in the competitive scene on top of being a ton of work to include so his cut made more sense. Miis did provide the opportunity for various crossovers but I think we might be able to find other ways of doing that like stages, assist trophies, and other things. I was definitely on the fence of keeping them for that reason but the fact that they take the resources of over three characters for one concept made me okay with cutting them. Plus, Miis aren't really used much anymore.

Bayonetta and Snake were partially due to the status of their series. The last Bayonetta game didn't do too well and the spinoff wasn't well received either. Plus, Hideki Kamiya left Platinum Games so that might put Bayonetta in a questionable spot for the future. Snake was already cut in Smash 4 and I feel like he only came back due to "Everyone is Here" in Ultimate. It's a shame because I do like Snake in Smash but Metal Gear's future is also questionable without Hideo Kojima at Konami. Again, I'd rather keep everyone but if I'm forced to make cuts, these made sense to me. It's fine if you feel otherwise.

I understand what you mean. Still, when was the last time a character was cut because of their series’s status being questionable without someone, someone leaving a company the character is from or their last game not selling well? Just curious.

 

[Louie G.]

My stance on Bayonetta is that she’s safe for next game but unsafe for anything after that, as it stands. The state of Platinum, Kamiya and her series are in flux where I wouldn't expect much activity for a while.

This isn’t me trying to make predictions about a game after a game that doesn’t exist yet though. My point is that this questionable future won’t be judged too heavily until it actually manifests. If Bayonetta disappears for a decade then there would be reason to be skeptical. For the game immediately following a sequel release and spinoff though, even if those games underperformed, I wouldn’t be too worried about her.

Snake’s future straight up doesn’t matter IMO. I’m uncertain whether he’ll be back or not but MGS3 is getting a remake and even if it wasn’t, Metal Gear’s legacy is strong enough to justify his guest appearance off the success of those games alone. Bayonetta is a smaller series and character where that kind of investment kind of does matter, Nintendo has stock in this series as well. For Snake it was never a factor to begin with.

 

[Gengar84]

My stance on Bayonetta is that she’s safe for next game but unsafe for anything after that, as it stands. The state of Platinum, Kamiya and her series are in flux where I wouldn't expect much activity for a while.

This isn’t me trying to make predictions about a game after a game that doesn’t exist yet though. My point is that this questionable future won’t be judged too heavily until it actually manifests. If Bayonetta disappears for a decade then there would be reason to be skeptical. For the game immediately following a sequel release and spinoff though, even if those games underperformed, I wouldn’t be too worried about her.

Snake’s future straight up doesn’t matter IMO. I’m uncertain whether he’ll be back or not but MGS3 is getting a remake and even if it wasn’t, Metal Gear’s legacy is strong enough to justify his guest appearance off the success of those games alone. Bayonetta is a smaller series and character where that kind of investment kind of does matter, Nintendo has stock in this series as well. For Snake it was never a factor to begin with.

Yeah, my main reasoning for Snake is that he’s the only third party character that was ever cut. That alone makes me less confident in his return but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. I’ll gladly take as many veterans as we can get and Snake’s always been fun in Smash. That’s one reason I hate making roster cuts is you’ll always upset fans of those cut characters. Sometimes the discussion on these rosters ends up being more about the cuts than the newcomer choices.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, my main reasoning for Snake is that he’s the only third party character that was ever cut. That alone makes me less confident in his return but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. I’ll gladly take as many veterans as we can get and Snake’s always been fun in Smash. That’s one reason I hate making roster cuts is you’ll always upset fans of those cut characters. Sometimes the discussion on these rosters ends up being more about the cuts than the newcomer choices.

I’m not upset by Snake being cut, it’s kind of something I’m anticipating too. I just don’t think the future of MGS is anything to hold over his head, because as is they are still utilizing the brand and it’s not something I see Smash having much concern about regardless.

If Snake gets cut or returns it will be with mind to his existing legacy and popularity. For most of the third parties in the game this is the case, Bayo is the only one where I do see the future of her series as a sticking point because of Nintendo’s own involvement.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Interesting change on the music app, dunno if it got brought up already, but they added Mario Kart 8 (Wii U), Breath of the Wild (Wii U), Metroid Prime Remastered, and Skyward Sword HD all with unique artwork to the search menu with all the games on it, with each taking you to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Breath of the Wild (Switch), Metroid Prime (Gamecube), and Skyward Sword (Wii) respectively.

Means we technically have a Wii U section now even if it has nothing new in it, so the only system missing now is the 3DS pretty much lol

 

[Stratos]

I've seen a bit of Fortnite and to be honest I can't say I liked it, but I also don't understand what the plot is. So as I watched it on Youtube and read in sources like Wikipedia, it didn't seem to me that there was a protagonist or maybe there is and I didn't notice and read something correctly. It's true that I don't like Fortnite as I saw it, but out of curiosity, could someone who knows it better describe the plot to me and if there is a protagonist?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't know if I'm in the minority but I wouldn't mind Fortnite content, simply because it's a massively popular video game playable on the Switch. I wouldn't even complain if Jonesy was made playable.....though imagine if he had building in his moveset.

 

[SneakyLink]

I've seen a bit of Fortnite and to be honest I can't say I liked it, but I also don't understand what the plot is. So as I watched it on Youtube and read in sources like Wikipedia, it didn't seem to me that there was a protagonist or maybe there is and I didn't notice and read something correctly. It's true that I don't like Fortnite as I saw it, but out of curiosity, could someone who knows it better describe the plot to me and if there is a protagonist?

There’s multiple modes to the game. For this summary I’ll only describe Battle Royale as the other mode with a plot (Save the World) is not on Nintendo Switch.

Spoiler

Basically there’s this point that serves as the source of everything in reality. One group uses it to force others to fight to the death every 22 minutes (the Battle Royale). This is the loop. When in the loop you are immortal but you cannot speak and lose all basic abilities (this is a looper).


Another group wants to stop the loop. Some villain who wants to destroy everything also appears and by 2022, 90% of these plot threads are irrelevant since a new reality was formed erasing the timeline.

Oh and it is canon to Marvel since there were two major crossovers with it.

 

[Oracle Link]

Cuts: ( i think thats all of them?)

Dr. Mario
Rosalina
Pirahna Plant
Toon Link
Young Link
Jigglypuff
Incineroar
Grenninja
Pichu
Incineroar
Roy
Corrin
Chrom
Ike
Lucina
Zero Suit Samus
Ice Climbers
Duck Hunt
Mii
Cloud
Sephiroth
Sora
Simon
Richter
Banjo
Terry
Kazuya

Newcomers:
Toad
King Boo
Lil Link and Zelda (Sorta)
Screamtail (my mom loved jigglypuff so i need to include that archetype somehow)
Bandana Waddle Dee
Alear
Tom Nook
Metroid Larva
Octoling
Isaac
Shadow
Spyro (i liked spyro one on Psone)
Shovelknight
Impa (Echo of a slightly reworked Sheik Moveset)
Morphoknight (Meta Knight Echo)
Black Shadow (Replacment for falcondorf)

This makes a grand total of 77 Characters (Counting transformations/ Alt versions) i think thats a bit more mangaeble!

So Just like Gengar84 who inspired this post im gonna list a couple of fighters passes:

Pass 1: Pass of Memorys
This Bad Boy Brings back all the one Franchise Nintendo rep as thats Important fortheir preservation and also adds one new retro rep:

Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt and Exicite Biker


Pass 2: Pass of Indies
In here are some iconic Indie Characters Include and a super secret Bonus Character (thats literally just a joke)

Sans, Shantae, Team Snake Mouth, Madeline
and???

Spoiler: Hes Forbidden

Spoiler: Please Don't Ban me

Spoiler: Its Just a Prank Bro!

I mean Come on i hid him behind 3 spoilers if You are Angry you only have to blame yourself!

Ah yeah its Videospiel-Man my Shudder (i hate that word) OC If you have any issue just close the spoilers and ignore this i just wanted to have some fun!
Also yeah Admins Tell me if this is too much VSM in that case i remove this section! (next time im on here of course)

Anyways Now that the forbidden one is out of the way! We Can Focus on the 3rd Pass!

Pass 3: Nintendo All star Pass
This Pass includes a bunch of iconic Nintendo Characters

Geno, Dixie, Magolor, Skull Kid and Midna

Pass 4: Return of The Third Parties
This Pass Includes ALL of the Cut third Parties! With only updated Models and maybe dubbed voiceline options

Pass 5: The Top 5!
This Pass Includes 5 of the most wanted back to back!

Phoenix Wright, Master Chief, Rayman, Crash and Waluigi!

So how did you like it!? I might change some stuff up but its 8 o clock and im tired BYe BYe!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know if I'm in the minority but I wouldn't mind Fortnite content, simply because it's a massively popular video game playable on the Switch. I wouldn't even complain if Jonesy was made playable.....though imagine if he had building in his moveset.

I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it. Just like with Steve.

I'd rather they just turn Smash Run into a Battle Royale.

 

[Stratos]

There’s multiple modes to the game. For this summary I’ll only describe Battle Royale as the other mode with a plot (Save the World) is not on Nintendo Switch.

Spoiler

Basically there’s this point that serves as the source of everything in reality. One group uses it to force others to fight to the death every 22 minutes (the Battle Royale). This is the loop. When in the loop you are immortal but you cannot speak and lose all basic abilities (this is a looper).


Another group wants to stop the loop. Some villain who wants to destroy everything also appears and by 2022, 90% of these plot threads are irrelevant since a new reality was formed erasing the timeline.

Oh and it is canon to Marvel since there were two major crossovers with it.

I understand.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

. The console needs a huge launch to succeed, and nothing sells consoles like Smash does.

Um...

3D Mario
Mario Kart
Pokemon
Zelda
Animal Crossing

A few IPs that sells consoles like Smash does if not better

What what Smash speculation would look like if the first thing revealed for the next game was was that every single Third Party character was cut for the next game

Oh boy......

What do you guys think of this Sonic overhaul mod?

Really want to like it but looks very janks like most fan-moveset. Un-cohesive

 

[Guynamednelson]

What do you guys think of this Sonic overhaul mod?

Some of those animations are nice, but Sonic doesn't need to be a stance character. I assume that's what the "Battle" and "Modern" styles are supposed to be?

 

[RodNutTakin]

Reposting my predictions.

=Base Game=

=End of Post-Launch Content=

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Some of those animations are nice, but Sonic doesn't need to be a stance character. I assume that's what the "Battle" and "Modern" styles are supposed to be?

Battle and Modern are actually two distinct movesets of the same mod, not a result of a stance change.

Just pick whichever you like best and it'll be the one moveset Sonic will have in the mod.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Battle and Modern are actually two distinct movesets of the same mod, not a result of a stance change.

Just pick whichever you like best and it'll be the one moveset Sonic will have in the mod.

Well in that case I think I prefer the modern style which is funny since I've barely touched modern sonic

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well in that case I think I prefer the modern style which is funny since I've barely touched modern sonic

I don't really prefer either because I think some moves are better on Battle (dash attack, down air, up throw) but some are better on Modern (everything else)

And to be honest, I prefer the jab from the actual moveset we got from Sakurai

But overall, either version of the mod is a big improvement in concept with how much more distinct Sonic looks.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

What do you guys think of this Sonic overhaul mod?

Goated . This moveset with maybe one attack from Frontiers and is literally perfection for Sonic.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I will accept absolutely no rosters that cut Jigglypuff.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I will accept absolutely no rosters that cut Jigglypuff.

Note to self: cut Jigglypuff if I ever make a cut roster in order to get reactions and discussions

 

[Gengar84]

I will accept absolutely no rosters that cut Jigglypuff.

What if I add her back and cut Team Rocket? I’m pretty flexible with a lot of the cuts, I care more about who’s added. I’d rather not cut anyone if I could.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if I add her back and cut Team Rocket? I’m pretty flexible with a lot of the cuts, I care more about who’s added. I’d rather not cut anyone if I could.

Forgot to say it but Jesse and James (assuming it's your intention with Team Rocket) would probably never gonna happen anyway due to Sakurai having a strict video game only rule.

If you aim for realism, you can't really have an anime-only character in your roster.

 

[Gengar84]

Forgot to say it but Jesse and James (assuming it's your intention with Team Rocket) would probably never gonna happen anyway due to Sakurai having a strict video game only rule.

If you aim for realism, you can't really have an anime-only character in your roster.

I think they might be an exception because they originate from a video game property. I’m not entirely sure how strict Sakurai’s definition is. Lu Bu is another edge case. I could easily remove both if neither are allowed but they’d both be cool. We did get Advent Children content in Smash so that already kind of breaks the game only rule.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Note to self: cut Jigglypuff if I ever make a cut roster in order to get reactions and discussions

To be fair, Jigglypuff is one of the few characters from the first game that anyone ever seems to be okay with cutting.

I forget if she was actually a lower priority character in the last few games barring Ultimate or not, but there's definitely still people who issue with her moveset.

What if I add her back and cut Team Rocket?

Roster status: acceptable.

Still want Toon Link to stay among the cast, too, though

 

[Guynamednelson]

but there's definitely still people who issue with her moveset.

I don't think it's the moveset they have issues with. And I don't want to go into any further details.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I forget if she was actually a lower priority character in the last few games barring Ultimate or not,

She was.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

To be fair, Jigglypuff is one of the few characters from the first game that anyone ever seems to be okay with cutting.

I forget if she was actually a lower priority character in the last few games barring Ultimate or not, but there's definitely still people who issue with her moveset.

I mean she usually is lower priority, but she's also relatively easy to make, which is why she outprioritized Mewtwo twice lol

I still feel like Jigglypuff probably always gets put near the end of the list but when time gets short she gets bumped up over most others because of her perfect attendee status. She's like the biggest beneficiary of that status I think there is, because otherwise I feel like she would've been cut at least once, especially when her Pokemon veteran competition that comes up just short is MEWTWO.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think they might be an exception because they originate from a video game property. I’m not entirely sure how strict Sakurai’s definition is. Lu Bu is another edge case. I could easily remove both if neither are allowed but they’d both be cool. We did get Advent Children content in Smash so that already kind of breaks the game only rule.

There aren't a lot of cases so it's hard to say, but I'm pretty sure AC gets a pass because it's a canonical continuation of the FF7 story. It's considered part of the games despite not being one itself.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

She was.

I'm not terribly surprised. I think what confused me was recalling a debate where people were questioning whether or not Jigglypuff being low priority actually meant she was at risk of being cut or if the developers just waiting to work on her until most other characters were finished.

I don't remember whether or not either i was conclusively proven.

I mean she usually is lower priority, but she's also relatively easy to make, which is why she outprioritized Mewtwo twice lol

I still feel like Jigglypuff probably always gets put near the end of the list but when time gets short she gets bumped up over most others because of her perfect attendee status. She's like the biggest beneficiary of that status I think there is, because otherwise I feel like she would've been cut at least once, especially when her Pokemon veteran competition that comes up just short is MEWTWO.

This is the idea I personally get. Regardless of the time it takes to develop the game, she was always still added in favor of at least one other veteran and several possible newcomers (albeit, likely Semi-clones and Echo Fighters before they were named and classed as such).

Still, I guess the only way to know for absolutely sure is if Sakurai or any of the other developers ever comment on it, assuming they haven't already. And who knows if they ever will.

 

[Gengar84]

I have no issues with Jigglypuff whatsoever. She’s actually been my brother’s main since Smash 64. It’s just that we were kind of over saturated with Gen 1 Pokémon (especially if I wanted to add Gengar), and she isn’t really promoted much within the series anymore.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think they might be an exception because they originate from a video game property. I’m not entirely sure how strict Sakurai’s definition is. Lu Bu is another edge case. I could easily remove both if neither are allowed but they’d both be cool.

Nah, I don't think being from a video game property makes them an exception.

Non-video game content can be referenced (how Pokemon speak, Ash-Greninja, Advent Children stuff, Blood Vengeance in the case of Nina Williams' spirit artwork) but if Sakurai managed to spend this much time without adding any first-party character not from a video game, I think it's fair to say the "video game only" rule isn't just for guest characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

and she isn’t really promoted much within the series anymore.

Well the TRio is worse off at this point, at least Pokemon Horizons doesn't mean Jigglypuff is abolished from the anime.