Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

personally I'd go with Blanca or Wisp from animal crossing

When has Wisp ever done something like that?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When has Wisp ever done something like that?

When has Blanca?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It’d also be like not giving young link time powers, toon link wind powers or joker his wild card ability

A moveset where Joker would use multiple Personas would not only be messy but also a LOT of work for the smaller DLC team. Like, if you fully commited to the Wild Card gimmick, Joker's moveset would be enough work to cover at least one of the two Fighters Passes all on its own.

"But Kazuya-"

Kazuya didn't need dozens of different entities accompanying him which means significantly less work for the modeling team.

When has Blanca?

New Leaf on April Fools' Day.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

In order to utilize Joker's full range of abilities he would have needed to be like Hero with his massive list of random abilities.

And well the devs were already busy with Hero.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Joker exclusively using Arsene gives me the vibes of "yeah he has the ability to use all Personas, but Arsene is his Persona" and so that's what they focused on. They did the same for Yu in Persona 4 Arena.

I could see Wildcard appearing at some point, but it'd probably be a Monado Art type thing. Or that one idea someone (I think Duke of Dorks) had where the character has a command grab that gives him a Persona from the fighter he hit.

 

[Laniv]

When has Wisp ever done something like that?

New Leaf Welcome Amiibo update let Wisp briefly transform into a character scanned via amiibo

 

[fogbadge]

I don't think The Song of Time or Winds Requiem's effects would be any good in a fighting game. Wild Card you've probably got a point on, but I've never played Persona 5 so I wouldn't know. Could be like the other avatars who use their basic abilities even though they've got a whole bunch of versatile options.

again you'd have to lean into the whole creative liberties thing we were talking about earlier

A moveset where Joker would use multiple Personas would not only be messy but also a LOT of work for the smaller DLC team. Like, if you fully commited to the Wild Card gimmick, Joker's moveset would be enough work to cover at least one of the two Fighters Passes all on its own.

"But Kazuya-"

Kazuya didn't need dozens of different entities accompanying him which means significantly less work for the modeling team.

why would I say but kazuya? I know nothing about his games

Joker exclusively using Arsene gives me the vibes of "yeah he has the ability to use all Personas, but Arsene is his Persona" and so that's what they focused on. They did the same for Yu in Persona 4 Arena.

I could see Wildcard appearing at some point, but it'd probably be a Monado Art type thing. Or that one idea someone (I think Duke of Dorks) had where the character has a command grab that gives him a Persona from the fighter he hit.

point being characters don't need their signature abilities to be in the game

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

New Leaf Welcome Amiibo update let Wisp briefly transform into a character scanned via amiibo

I never bothered to get a reader (or entirely new 3DS) for that so that's good to know.

Both characters feel very much like deep cuts for that archetype though, especially since in New Horizons, Wisp is back to his usual role and the April Fools event is gone entirely

 

[Gengar84]

I was originally pretty disappointed that Joker doesn’t use any Personas in Smash besides Arsene but the more I think about it, it was probably the right choice. First, I think Yu was limited to just one Persona in Persona 4 Arena if memory serves so it’s not unprecedented. More importantly, it saves the summoner concept for a character like Yuna who has the more recognizeable summons. Kerrigan’s another cool option but I envision her summons to work a bit differently than Yuna’s.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

First, I think Yu was limited to just one Persona in Persona 4 Arena if memory serves so it’s not unprecedented.

Not just any Persona but the very one he will always start with, much like Arsene with Joker.

Like SMASH Puppy put it, Joker can use any Persona but Arsene is his Persona.

 

[Gengar84]

Not just any Persona but the very one he will always start with, much like Arsene with Joker.

Like SMASH Puppy put it, Joker can use any Persona but Arsene is his Persona.

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say but I couldn’t remember the name of Yu’s main Persona. Joker just sticking with Arsene makes a lot more sense than Yuna just sticking with Valefor so if they’re going to use the multiple summons idea on something, I’m happy it wasn’t Joker in hindsight.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, IS probably wouldn't go for it and the Pokemon Company may or may assassinate Sakurai if he were to pitch this idea,

IntSys were okay with him suggesting Chrom as Ultimate's new base game FE fighter despite Awakening no longer being the latest FE, and the Pokemon that TPC likes to market aren't restricted to the latest generation.

 

[Gengar84]

I do like Meowscarada but I’m hoping we don’t get another current gen starter as the sole Pokemon character. It just makes future speculation kind of boring and predictable. There are so many awesome Pokemon out there that I’d hate to abandon all hope of ever seeing anything but the latest starter again. I feel similarly to the default Fire Emblem slot always going to the lord of the most recent game.

 

[fogbadge]

I never bothered to get a reader (or entirely new 3DS) for that so that's good to know.

Both characters feel very much like deep cuts for that archetype though, especially since in New Horizons, Wisp is back to his usual role and the April Fools event is gone entirely

so? does a character have to be well known?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

so? does a character have to be well known?

No but it probably helps if an ability as major as "can transform into any character they want" is more than just a one-game trick.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone bring up this potential Smash character here but I’d be really excited for it. I don’t want to spoil the game for anyone that hasn’t played it but the final boss of the main story of Kirby and the Forgotten Land would actually be really cool. They probably don’t have as much a chance as Bandana Dee but I’d personally like it more. Maybe we can get two Kirby characters and Dee and the final boss can both make it in. I just beat the main story yesterday and I’m working on the post game.

 

[RileyXY1]

I do like Meowscarada but I’m hoping we don’t get another current gen starter as the sole Pokemon character. It just makes future speculation kind of boring and predictable. There are so many awesome Pokemon out there that I’d hate to abandon all hope of ever seeing anything but the latest starter again. I feel similarly to the default Fire Emblem slot always going to the lord of the most recent game.

That's why I think Pokémon should get its own platform fighter.

 

[fogbadge]

No but it probably helps if an ability as major as "can transform into any character they want" is more than just a one-game trick.

thats chrade out then

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's how I think it goes down when adding stuff in Smash that may be spoilery:

Sakurai: "Hey, let's use this!"

Nintendo: "You wanna use this? Really? But…that might spoil the game it's from."

Sakurai: "Since when did Smash care about spoilers?"

Nintendo: "Fair enough. Add it in."

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

thats chrade out then

Charade? From Soulcalibur?

First off, that would mean Bandai Namco giving a **** about the IP again which doesn't seem likely since the one director who managed to convince them that SC6 was a good idea no longer works for them.

Second, there is no way they would pick Charade over either a massively iconic character (Nightmare) or a more prominent mimic (Inferno).

 

[fogbadge]

Charade? From Soulcalibur?

First off, that would mean Bandai Namco giving a **** about the IP again which doesn't seem likely since the one director who managed to convince them that SC6 was a good idea no longer works for them.

Second, there is no way they would pick Charade over either a massively iconic character (Nightmare) or a more prominent mimic (Inferno).

yes you’d almost think I’d have to be kidding

 

[Stratos]

However, maybe Nintendo will release a brand new game on Switch 2 that will become a new series, but Switch 2 hasn't even been mentioned and we can't be sure about that. However, if a new video game series is created, I don't think the main character (whoever it is) will appear in Super Smash Bros. for Switch 2 but only in the next Super Smash Bros. of Nintendo's next console, that is, the console that will be released after the Switch 2. I know this is too early to talk about this, but I'm just saying and writing in the event that a new Nintendo video game series is released what will be the possibility that the protagonist of that new series will come as a newcomer to Super Smash Bros for the Switch 2.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I think Fighting Polygon from Smash 64 is an underrated pick as a mimic character. It’d be relatively practical, given its simplistic design that‘d be easier to make for all characters. Plus it’d just look super weird and unique.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

what will be the possibility that the protagonist of that new series will come as a newcomer to Super Smash Bros for the Switch 2.

Zero. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

They picked Corrin over Inkling even though they had their games out at relatively the same time (in Japan), so it definitely feels like Sakurai is not really on board with any franchise that's "too new"

And for anyone who wants to bring up the Mii Outfits... who's to say Corrin and those Splatoon outfits weren't considered around the same time? Making a whole fighter takes time so it's definitely possible.

 

[SharkLord]

Zero. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

They picked Corrin over Inkling even though they had their games out at relatively the same time (in Japan), so it definitely feels like Sakurai is not really on board with any franchise that's "too new"

And for anyone who wants to bring up the Mii Outfits... who's to say Corrin and those Splatoon outfits weren't considered around the same time? Making a whole fighter takes time so it's definitely possible.

To be fair, that was also specifically for DLC, where you had to sell the character alone and not as part of a whole game. It seems to me like Stratos is suggesting that a new IP will get a fighter in general, which is fairly reasonable for most Smash games (Though, most new series that get represented in Smash tend to be from the previous generation, like Olimar in Brawl or Shulk and Wii Fit in 4). That said, it depends on when the roster is finalized; ARMS and XC2 missed out on base Ult because they hadn't released when it was set, after all

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

IntSys were okay with him suggesting Chrom as Ultimate's new base game FE fighter despite Awakening no longer being the latest FE, and the Pokemon that TPC likes to market aren't restricted to the latest generation.

I'd rather not have another Gen 1 Pokemon because we already have more than half of the Pokemon roster consisting of Gen 1 Pokemon (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo, compared to the others being Pichu, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar).

We already have a 6-4 split, and we're almost certainly losing Pichu in the transition to next game, which makes the disparity even bigger.

If we get two Pokemon newcomers then maybe since Trainer and Mewtwo have shown that that's possible in the past, but if it's only one Pokemon newcomer, it's much more likely to be a new face like Incineroar was, and tbh that's what I'd prefer anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'd rather not have another Gen 1 Pokemon because we already have more than half of the Pokemon roster consisting of Gen 1 Pokemon (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo, compared to the others being Pichu, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar).

We already have a 6-4 split, and we're almost certainly losing Pichu in the transition to next game, which makes the disparity even bigger.

If we get two Pokemon newcomers then maybe since Trainer and Mewtwo have shown that that's possible in the past, but if it's only one Pokemon newcomer, it's much more likely to be a new face like Incineroar was, and tbh that's what I'd prefer anyway.

And I'd rather not have a new face if it's...the new face that's the most likely.

 

[Perkilator]

If we get two Pokémon newcomers in the base game of the next Smash, I'd prefer it be from an older gen, even Gen 8.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

And I'd rather not have a new face if it's...the new face that's the most likely.

I mean if we're talking Meowscarada here, we're on the same page lmao

Especially since Incineroar was the last Pokemon newcomer and was also a Dark-type cat, but it depends on if Sakurai wants to do something with the magician angle/archetype I guess. Me personally, I'd rather get Ogerpon for a Gen 9 newcomer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean if we're talking Meowscarada here

Correct

Although for me it has nothing to do with being a dark-type cat and more to do with it being too humanoid (inb4 someone says bipedal as if I automatically hate all birds and didn't suggest pawmot as a possibility)

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone bring up this potential Smash character here but I’d be really excited for it. I don’t want to spoil the game for anyone that hasn’t played it but the final boss of the main story of Kirby and the Forgotten Land would actually be really cool.

Leongar, Elfilis, or Morpho Knight?

 

[Gengar84]

Leongar, Elfilis, or Morpho Knight?

Spoiler

The ultimate life form (which is basically a completed Elfilis fused with its other half)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To be fair, that was also specifically for DLC, where you had to sell the character alone and not as part of a whole game. It seems to me like Stratos is suggesting that a new IP will get a fighter in general, which is fairly reasonable for most Smash games (Though, most new series that get represented in Smash tend to be from the previous generation, like Olimar in Brawl or Shulk and Wii Fit in 4). That said, it depends on when the roster is finalized; ARMS and XC2 missed out on base Ult because they hadn't released when it was set, after all

So the only way a Switch 2 IP would stand a chance is if the next Smash isn't part of the early console lineup, something that historically only happened with the very first game simply because the idea of Smash came late into the N64 era. And with how much Smash sells, Nintendo will likely keep making Smash an early juggernaut.

So again, chances are downright nonexistent for a Switch 2 IP to make it, at least for the base game. DLC is another story entirely.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean if we're talking Meowscarada here, we're on the same page lmao

Especially since Incineroar was the last Pokemon newcomer and was also a Dark-type cat, but it depends on if Sakurai wants to do something with the magician angle/archetype I guess. Me personally, I'd rather get Ogerpon for a Gen 9 newcomer.

Let's be frank, if the design document (aka the roster) was drafted before Gen 9 released, then there's no reason to assume Meowscarada is the "most likely" in the first place as it's only one of many potential options that could get Sakurai's attention based on their concept. People only cling to Meowscarada because they have this notion that because it's "popular" and "a Starter" it has to be the one picked, yet that's not how we got Greninja and Incineroar in spite of what conspiracy theorists say.

That isn't to say it couldn't be Meowscarada anyway since its tricky street magician theme can still stick out to Sakurai. Just that it isn't the de facto "most likely" any more than Decidueye was.


And if it's after Gen 9 released then it's **** out of luck anyway since the token "new Pokémon" slot is pretty much going to be tied to an upcoming release after the design document instead, whether it's Gen 10 or Z-A.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I dunno which Pokemon is the most likely, but Meowscarada and Eevee get my votes.

Luxray is a pipe dream pick

 

[Arcanir]

And if it's after Gen 9 released then it's **** out of luck anyway since the token "new Pokémon" slot is pretty much going to be tied to an upcoming release after the design document instead, whether it's Gen 10 or Z-A.

I'm honestly not as certain on ZA getting a new Pokemon if it's the newest game. PLA was still considered Gen 8 and much of the marketing and advertising for those games was shared with SwSh (ex. the anime having a PLA arc, but still featuring Galarian Pokemon like Cinderace or Inteleon). PZA seems to be following that example as upcoming merchandise and media have content clearly referring to PZA and Kalos like Zygarde, but the Pokemon prominently featured still contain Paldean Pokemon like Floragato and Ceruledge and a certain leak does imply further crossover of that content. So even if PZA is the most recent game it's not like SV and Paldea is suddenly going to be irrelevant, they can still add a newcomer from those games and they'd still likely be popping up in Pokemon media at the time and remain in the public eye.

It could still happen, PLA was highly successful and ZA's existence shows they clearly want to keep it as a major pillar of the franchise and could be represented for those reasons. I'm just not as bullish on the idea that PZA's release will suddenly make SV too irrelevant for additin since there's still going to be content from those games that likely will still be present in advertising that will keep it relevant, similar to how we still saw Cinderace past PLA's release or Greninja past ORAS' release.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

It'd be cool if we got a playable Pokémon from every generation. Currently it's 3, 5, 8 and 9 that are unrepresented. If we get two Pokémon newcomers at the same time, it'd be nice if we got one from the most recent Gen and then a popular one from an unrepresented older Gen.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Let's be frank, if the design document (aka the roster) was drafted before Gen 9 released, then there's no reason to assume Meowscarada is the "most likely" in the first place as it's only one of many potential options that could get Sakurai's attention based on their concept. People only cling to Meowscarada because they have this notion that because it's "popular" and "a Starter" it has to be the one picked, yet that's not how we got Greninja and Incineroar in spite of what conspiracy theorists say.

That isn't to say it couldn't be Meowscarada anyway since its tricky street magician theme can still stick out to Sakurai. Just that it isn't the de facto "most likely" any more than Decidueye was.

I mean I can sort of understand the reasoning because currently, it's a popular starter owned by the main character of the current iteration of the anime (though Liko only has a Floragato at the moment), though I suppose the same could apply to Skeledirge because of Roy having Crocalor right now.

I'm just kinda tired of Pokemon talk mostly just boiling down to starters, I guess lol

 

[Ivander]

I tell ya, we wouldn't be having these questions about who gets in if we got 20 reps per series per game. But noooo, there can only be one rep per series per game, there can only be one Rep per Gen per game, there can only be one who takes the cookies from the cookie jar. C'mon, we're not stuck to the Rule of One, otherwise, problems would not be coming in threes.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean I can sort of understand the reasoning because currently, it's a popular starter owned by the main character of the current iteration of the anime (though Liko only has a Floragato at the moment), though I suppose the same could apply to Skeledirge because of Roy having Crocalor right now.

I'm just kinda tired of Pokemon talk mostly just boiling down to starters, I guess lol

Blame the fandom for always trying to connect specifically to the previous addition(s).

Zoroark was "the most likely" because of being a promotional movie star.
Sceptile was "the most likely" because and happened and we needed a Grass Starter to complete the set to coincide with upcoming Gen 3 remakes.
Decidueye was "the most likely" for a similar reason; we needed a Grass Starter and the Rowlet line was "the popular pick" like .
Rillaboom started to be "the most likely" for the same reason back when it was an unknown "Grookey Final Evo", but then Cinderace drowned that out and became "the most likely" because and were "shilled Starters" just like Cinderace was.

So naturally we have that same exact trap being fallen into with Meowscarada. Because Greninja and Incineroar happened, it's "the most likely" because it's a "popular and shilled Starter" that happens to be the Grass one.


EDIT: And again, I'm not trying to say Meowscarada doesn't have a chance. The point is that it's not the only one that does, and people being laser focused on it for superfluous reasons has a very high chance to backfire like it had done before several times over.