Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[smashkirby]

Little Ma- oh wait, Isabe- oh!

Huh, pretty good track record on my end. Jokes aside, Isaac is the one I’ve got my eyes on right now. Once upon a time I’d have said Saki but… dude isn’t even an AT anymore. Deserves a mention anyway but that’s a shame.

Really do wonder why Saki was given the boot. I mean, a quick touch-up on his Smash 4 model, and he'd be good to go, right?

I'm gonna quote an earlier post of mine:

Personally, I'd like the Gyrocopter theme from Pilotwings 64. Well, perhaps a more urgent-sounding remix? Also, the Birdman theme from the same game as a bit of irony over such a relaxing song being used in Smash Bros.

I also don't know if this counts since Ryota Hayami has only appeared as a Trophy, Sticker, and Spirit, but perhaps Port Blue and Marine Fortress from Wave Race 64?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly I just wish we knew why Snake was cut in Smash 4. It would make figuring out the fate of the Konami fighters much easier.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'm gonna quote an earlier post of mine:

Possibly my favorite boss theme.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly I just wish we knew why Snake was cut in Smash 4. It would make figuring out the fate of the Konami fighters much easier.

Time constraints seems like the most likely answer

That and Konami was SO controversial at the time i doubt they wanted the risk of being colateral damage

 

[RileyXY1]

Time constraints seems like the most likely answer

That and Konami was SO controversial at the time i doubt they wanted the risk of being colateral damage

Yeah. That was around the time when the MGS5 controversy happened as well as Kojima's exit from Konami, and Sakurai and Kojima are close friends so I think he would choose to support his friend by not associating his newest game with the company that had just forced him out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Time constraints seems like the most likely answer

That and Konami was SO controversial at the time i doubt they wanted the risk of being colateral damage

I don't think time constraints are even a factor in regards to third party characters. Ya can't just say, well I know we signed a contract, but I ran out of time. Whoopsie!

 

[Hypercat-Z]

OK, so just out of curiosity, which songs from a certain represented franchise would you like to hear for the next Smash game?

The first coming to my mind is this:

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Honestly I just wish we knew why Snake was cut in Smash 4. It would make figuring out the fate of the Konami fighters much easier.

Very likely having to do with keeping to the same "two to three" guests deal that was set for Brawl and he was outpriortized by the trio we got.

As for why not DLC....I guess not worth the hassle of renegotiating at the time.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Daytona USA ever got represented into Smash, I think these are the songs I'd like to hear (Bold means new remixes):

Daytona USA:
Let's Go Away
The King of Speed
Sky High
Pounding Pavement
Sons of Angels
The American Dream
Slingshot
I Can Do It
Skyscraper Sequence
Lakeside Castle
Metro City

Hang-On & Super Hang-On:
Hang-On ~ Theme of Love
Outride a Crisis
Winning Run

OutRun:
Magical Sound Shower
Passing Breeze
Splash Wave
Speed King
Risky Ride
Shiny World
Night Flight
Life Was A Bore

Others:
Space Harrier
After Burner
Rent-A-Hero

 

[SharkLord]

I don't think time constraints are even a factor in regards to third party characters. Ya can't just say, well I know we signed a contract, but I ran out of time. Whoopsie!

I think it factors into the planning stages, but not the actual negotiations. I'd imagine when Sakurai drafts up his rosters, he'd have to take into account how much time and budget they'll be afforded for the game, which would limit all fighters. He'd have to set a rough cap on how big the roster can be before deciding on who they'll add or keep, and only start negotiations after the planning. So even if a character is easy to negotiate for, there might just be limited space on the roster, so they're jostling for room with newcomers and other veterans.

Of course, that's hard to speculate with when we don't know the design philosophy. The Belmonts have some strong points in their favor and I do think they have a good shot at coming back, but maybe next game's going to be more first party-centric, or more focused on series that have recent major releases or something. But regardless, the point is that negotiations won't be directly interrupted by time constraints, but who they'll go and negotiate for might be influenced by the limits set by time and budget

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly I just wish we knew why Snake was cut in Smash 4. It would make figuring out the fate of the Konami fighters much easier.

It probably just landed at a time where Konami was trying to downplay Metal Gear due to Kojima's departure.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Konami, the particularly nasty context of their relationship breakdown with Kojima likely played a factor in the lack of Snake in 4. Whether they simply were uncomfortable with spotlighting him in Smash or Nintendo simply didn't want to get in the middle an increasingly ugly PR situation with Metal Gear is unknown, but both reasons (or even a combination of the two) would entirely make sense.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Bear in mind that the project proposal was drafted in late April of 2012.

Unless someone can confirm **** was going down with Konami back then, it would have no factor in why Snake was left out of the base roster.

 

[SPEN18]

I don't think time constraints are even a factor in regards to third party characters. Ya can't just say, well I know we signed a contract, but I ran out of time. Whoopsie!

At the same time, though, it means that they have to be absolutely certain from the start that they can commit those resources to that character. Obviously they don't have unlimited time and resources, so it's not that time constraints don't apply to third parties, just that they have to be evaluated fully from the get-go, and they can't take the approach of "just fit in as many as we can" with them.

 

[cashregister9]

I... It might have been because of...

Snake wasn't in it, but maybe there was some rights shenanigans with the fact that Metal Gear was in here at all

 

[SPEN18]

AT promos? There are a lot I'd like, but some of the top options for me are Isaac, Lyn, Skull Kid, Krystal, Midna, Waluigi.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I honestly don't think there's any conspiracy as to why Snake didn't return until Ultimate.

Simply that he wasn't planned to return (and only came back in Ultimate because of the Ballot), so there was just....no discussion between the parties about it for Smash For.

 

[SharkLord]

I do wonder how next game will treat the veterans. Generally, Smash has erred more on the side of preserving veterans and movesets, but with Ultimate, Sakurai said he wanted to bring everyone back to make everyone happy - Only to realize that even with all veterans back, not everyone will be pleased. I wonder how his viewpoint might be affected by that. Preserving old characters and movesets is something of a Sakurai-ism that I doubt will just vanish overnight, but Ultimate was meant to be the big once-in-a-generation event that Sakurai didn't expect to be repeated, and even then he couldn't please everyone. Maybe he'll want to go all in on newcomers and maybe some moveset reworks, even if some of the reworks are just attitude adjustments and not real moveset changes

 

[Borskaboska]

watched this video yesterday (love moon channel btw, everyone should watch him. He does deep dives into the legal and cultural backgrounds of japanese games). Without going to into detail of the contents of the video, the lawsuit between Nintendo and Palworld is making me doubt if any IP's significantly tied to Sony have much a chance of coming back. Like considering FF7 is exclusive to playstation they might not bring back Cloud. Would this effect characters like Crash and 2B?

 

[fogbadge]

watched this video yesterday (love moon channel btw, everyone should watch him. He does deep dives into the legal and cultural backgrounds of japanese games). Without going to into detail of the contents of the video, the lawsuit between Nintendo and Palworld is making me doubt if any IP's significantly tied to Sony have much a chance of coming back. Like considering FF7 is exclusive to playstation they might not bring back Cloud. Would this effect characters like Crash and 2B?

no because the remake being sony exclusive doesn't change that fact that SE own cloud. also SE also own 2B and microsoft own crash. sony has gotting nothing to do with it as these strong ties are large are fan perception

 

[AreJay25]

watched this video yesterday (love moon channel btw, everyone should watch him. He does deep dives into the legal and cultural backgrounds of japanese games). Without going to into detail of the contents of the video, the lawsuit between Nintendo and Palworld is making me doubt if any IP's significantly tied to Sony have much a chance of coming back. Like considering FF7 is exclusive to playstation they might not bring back Cloud. Would this effect characters like Crash and 2B?

I... don't see why this would affect other IP's that Sony doesn't own? The FF7 remake trilogy are timed exclusives. Nier and Crash aren't exclusive to them, either.

It'd be weird for the Palworld situation to essentially accumulate collateral damage for games it has no affiliation with.

 

[SharkLord]

watched this video yesterday (love moon channel btw, everyone should watch him. He does deep dives into the legal and cultural backgrounds of japanese games). Without going to into detail of the contents of the video, the lawsuit between Nintendo and Palworld is making me doubt if any IP's significantly tied to Sony have much a chance of coming back. Like considering FF7 is exclusive to playstation they might not bring back Cloud. Would this effect characters like Crash and 2B?

I don't have much time to watch the video, but unless there's something big I'm not aware of, I think Sony's a different beast. PalWorld is most likely being targeted for blatantly plagiarizing Pokemon designs and concepts (Though Nintendo's suing them for patent infringement instead, likely because that's just easier to convict somene for than copyrights), and to my knowledge its devs have little to no dealings with the Big N. Sony's at least chill enough to allow Lego Horizon to get a Switch port, despite Horzion being one of their big exclusice IPs. FF7 got a Switch port a while back, and Squeenix has stated they're aiming for multiplat releases over exclusitivity for Final Fantasy in the future. Crash is owned by Microsoft, who Nintendo's in fairly good relations with, and Nier: Automata also has a Switch port.

Plus, Yoko Taro has said he'll do anything as long as he's paid so I think he should be game

 

[Borskaboska]

I don't have much time to watch the video, but unless there's something big I'm not aware of, I think Sony's a different beast. PalWorld is most likely being targeted for blatantly plagiarizing Pokemon designs and concepts (Though Nintendo's suing them for patent infringement instead, likely because that's just easier to convict somene for than copyrights), and to my knowledge its devs have little to no dealings with the Big N. Sony's at least chill enough to allow Lego Horizon to get a Switch port, despite Horzion being one of their big exclusice IPs. FF7 got a Switch port a while back, and Squeenix has stated they're aiming for multiplat releases over exclusitivity for Final Fantasy in the future. Crash is owned by Microsoft, who Nintendo's in fairly good relations with, and Nier: Automata also has a Switch port.

Plus, Yoko Taro has said he'll do anything as long as he's paid so I think he should be game

the video basically speculates that the nintendo lawsuit is mostly in response to sony buying palworld and thus being seen as a threat. It also implies that nintendo and sony are on bad terms due to the falling out with the original playstation. Either way, suing the palworld devs is an indirect suing of sony so I doubt sony affiliated companies/properties would be willing/able to have their IP's in smash

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sony doesn't own Square Enix nor do they have any enough investment in it to really control whether or not Cloud gets in Smash beyond threatening to hurt their own exclusivity deals ala FFVII remake.

Something that's worth noting with Palworld and gaming patents is that many of the big Japanese gaming companies have applied and own many of them already. There has been speculation though, that most of them are generally not enforced much of the time because the idea is less for the big corporations to own gaming concepts and more prevent such patents from being utilized by those that might abuse them. Basically, patents are swords in various players' sheaths that they all agree not to use against each other or other game companies... unless such companies are seen as acting in bad faith.

The hypothesis I've seen put forward (though obviously this is hard to really prove) is that Pocket Pair is generally seen as being a bad faith actor with Palword by Nintendo and that while any hypothetical copyright violations may be tricky to prove in a Japanese court, patent violation (which they may very well have technically done given the many ones Nintendo already has) is not. Essentially Pocket Pair is viewed as no different than Colplo in their actions and the patent lawsuit is thus being wielded against both; it just so happens that the real root with the former is with designs and Nintendo is utilizing the weapon they can wield best against it.

Again, just speculation but it would make sense and would suggest Palworld is a bit of a special case.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

the lawsuit between Nintendo and Palworld is making me doubt if any IP's significantly tied to Sony have much a chance of coming back. Like considering FF7 is exclusive to playstation they might not bring back Cloud. Would this effect characters like Crash and 2B?

If any guest with any semblance of Playstation association would be cut because Sony is a ****, that would be a massive exodus of guest with many of them no longer having any chance of getting anything.

Just to list off anyone's situation...

- From series that have been majorly associated with PlayStation.
- Not necessarily associated with PlayStation, but their most well-known (Richter) or debut (Eight) game were initially PS-exclusive.
- Street Fighter V wouldn't have happened without Sony. SF6 also notably skipped Xbox.
- While not associated with PlayStation, SNK has had a streak of its major non-port releases being only on PlayStation and Steam.
- Debuted on PS3 and Xbox 360, but having two sequels funded by Nintendo means there is no Sony association whatsoever anymore.
- From games that were in multiple platforms, including Sony's, but isn't really associated with PlayStation.
- Has never touched a Sony platform.



But in truth, I believe this would only affect things that are directly owned by Sony, if anything at all. I don't see them glance at Konami because they want Snake in the next Smash game. And that changes nothing for speculation because we already had the idea that people like Kratos would never happen.

 

[SneakyLink]

Nintendo will release a music app later today, allowing you to stream or download music from Nintendo’s libraries.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nintendo will release a music app later today, allowing you to stream or download music from Nintendo’s libraries.

Funny joke, Link.

 

[SneakyLink]

Funny joke, Link.

Yep, it is.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yep, it is.

WAIT, THAT'S REAL?! WHAT THE ****?!

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Nintendo will release a music app later today, allowing you to stream or download music from Nintendo’s libraries.

I've been saying they should do this for years - if they don't want stuff on other libraries, just have an NSO members only streaming service. Can't believe they actually did it though.

d... twice... Was in too much disbelief to post earlier lmao.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Sony doesn't own Square Enix nor do they have any enough investment in it to really control whether or not Cloud gets in Smash beyond threatening to hurt their own exclusivity deals ala FFVII remake.

Which is actually really funny that Sony might think they could affect Square with that considering Square's bottom line has been shattered (70% profit loss last fiscal year) and they said they wanted to move to more multi-platform as a strategy going forward lmao

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Double post, please ignore.

 

[CannonStreak]

I was honestly wondering if Nintendo would release their own music someday, with all their YouTube music takedowns and all.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yep, it is.

Nintendo is so desperate to not put their music on Spotify that they made their own Spotify.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

It isn't on the UK accounts yet which is concerning... If this is US and Japan only I'll be very upset.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Which is actually really funny that Sony might think they could affect Square with that considering Square's bottom line has been shattered (70% profit loss last fiscal year) and they said they wanted to move to more multi-platform as a strategy going forward lmao

Given that Dragon Quest III remake and especially Dragon Quest XII will be majority carried by Nintendo console sales, yeah SE aren't really in a position to pull anything from Switch or Switch 2 outside impractical AAA games that struggle to function on them.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Given that Dragon Quest III remake and especially Dragon Quest XII will be majority carried by Nintendo console sales, yeah SE aren't really in a position to pull anything from Switch or Switch 2 outside impractical AAA games that struggle to function on them.

And even then, if that one rumored showcase of the Switch 2 was true and there was a port of FF7R that ran really well on it, that could be huge for them lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

NSO members only

Too bad you wished for that part as well.

Well I'll admit it's not all bad at least, I like how it lets you extend a song's length as long as you want and isn't launching exclusively with Switch game soundtracks.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Too bad you wished for that part as well.

Well I'll admit it's not all bad at least, I like how it lets you extend a song's length as long as you want and isn't launching exclusively with Switch game soundtracks.

Oh I wasn't actively wanting that part, just thought it was the only way it could realistically happen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Too bad you wished for that part as well.

Well I'll admit it's not all bad at least, I like how it lets you extend a song's length as long as you want and isn't launching exclusively with Switch game soundtracks.

Look at the bright side.

They didn't lock it behind a new Expansion Expansion Pack.