Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Ninten is just boring Ness.

I agree from an outsider’s perspective. He doesn’t really look much different visually and I have no idea if his powers differ enough to justify another Smash character. It’s just a bit odd that they skipped over the first protagonist. It would be like if we got Roy in Melee but never got Marth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I agree from an outsider’s perspective. He doesn’t really look much different visually and I have no idea if his powers differ enough to justify another Smash character. It’s just a bit odd that they skipped over the first protagonist. It would be like if we got Roy in Melee but never got Marth.

Just using his powers in the first place would make him unique from Ness and Lucas, who don't even do that outside of Ness having PK Flash

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just using his powers in the first place would make him unique from Ness and Lucas, who don't even do that outside of Ness having PK Flash

While that's true we all know how he's gonna end up anyway right ?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Canonically, Ness' and Lucas' PSI is less offensive and more supportive, with healing being a focus. So I see why they had to borrow. But, I would've rather had Paula and Kumatora added in their place to fix the problem.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

While that's true we all know how he's gonna end up anyway right ?

Unfortunately so since he learns a grand total of ZERO offensive PSI. Even Ness and Lucas had least had something for dealing damage with PSI attacks while Ninten is entirely support-oriented.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Alright, that's understandable.

That said another question I have regarding the shelving of a Nintendo project: Bamco set up two teams for Nintendo stuff, and we think one is allegedly for Smash and the other non-Smash Nintendo games. Isn't it possible the shelved project couldn't be Smash?

If there's any project I expect would never just be cancelled by a dev studio it'd be Smash lol

Ultimate alone sold 34 million units and was the third highest selling game on the Switch, while Namco announced last year that Naruto video games AS A WHOLE (as in like all of them from 2009 to March of last year) have sold about 32 million units globally.

I don't think any self-respecting dev studio would want to take a hit that bad, and I'm assuming this was a little side venture lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ultimate alone sold 34 million units and was the third highest selling game on the Switch

Not to mention the only fighting game in existence to have outsold Street Fighter II.

Yeah, Bandai Namco would NEVER drop out of Smash if they can help it.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'd rather see someone like Porky over Ninten.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have a feeling that Ninten would end up as an Echo Fighter of Ness with the following changes (if any):

• Neutral Special is Paralysis: It's like PK Flash and PK Freeze, but paralyzes opponents instead of K.O.ing or freezing them.
• Up Special is 4th-D Slip: A teleport, probably copied from Mewtwo.
• Down Special is PowerShield: A counter.

With just the up special change I could see him being advertised as "beginner friendly Ness". As far as their designs holding up, it's hard to say. You would definitely be able to tell them apart in still images because they have a few fairly notable differences:

• Ninten's shirt is half tucked.
• The brim of Ninten's hat rests on the other side of his head.
• Ninten has Pac-Man eyes, while Ness and Lucas have circle eyes.
• Ninten lacks a backpack.
• Ninten's socks are red, and shoes are blue.

Dunno if they'd actually keep the Pac-Man eyes for visual consistancy reasons, but the lack of a backpack does alter his silouette and color pallet a teeny bit, and with Super Smash Bros.'s more realistic renderings of characters, the fact that his shirt is half tucked would probably cause it to be noticeabley baggier, and make the pattern on it look somewhat different with the stripes getting wavey at the bottom. It's not super solid, especially when the two are running around and flipping all over the place, but if they really wanted to do it, they could just say "tell these characters apart with 1 simple trick!"

I think Ninten might be an alright option if Lucas was absent, but there are more interesting characters from the Earthbound series if we were to specifically try to add one, and if you could get away with homogonizing their proportions, you would get more variety out of making Paula or Poo echo fighters of Ness.

EDIT: Having Ness, Ninten, and Lucas in the bass roster would be a terrible idea, and would probably have people pretty miffed at Ninten for the rest of his Smash carreer.

EDIT EDIT: It's also worth noting that Earthbound Beginnings doesn't have the signature PSI effects that the other two games do, at best having solid colors for the attacks or flickering the sprites for debuffs. This would mean that all of his attacks would either copy ness, or have a more plain design. Perhaps he'd have squares as a motif, or maybe he'd have more generic monochrome PSI effects? Either two options would make him more distinct from Ness while attacking, so that is something.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ninten is just boring Ness.

Ah! Don't you think you're kind of too negative with your descriptions?

I agree from an outsider’s perspective. He doesn’t really look much different visually and I have no idea if his powers differ enough to justify another Smash character. It’s just a bit odd that they skipped over the first protagonist. It would be like if we got Roy in Melee but never got Marth.

It may seem odd but that's just the history of the series. When the first Smash Bros game came out, Earthbound was the only game in the series that was localized, so Ness made more sense. Even today, with the third game still not being localized and the first game very much surpassed by its sequels, Earthbound is like THE game of the series.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah, and we usually get the protagonist of the first game in a series before anyone else so it’s extra weird to not have Ninten. I’m not really a big fan of Earthbound/Mother so Ninten isn’t really at the top of my most wanted list but I can understand how fans of the series might see his omission as odd.

It's not really all that weird when you realize that those "protagonists of the first game in a series" are generally still part of said series down the line as protagonist or at least a major character (i.e. being ironically in the "damsel in distress" role in the original DKC trilogy after the first title prior to the first Smash).

With series of rotating casts (which is pretty much the RPGs), it's more inconsistent as to who is picked first.

Marth is the protagonist of the first Fire Emblem (and third) and was picked. Now, he was the most requested one for Melee, but Sakurai was already considering him for the first Smash.

Ninten is the protagonist of the first Mother, but Ness got in instead, the latest of the two protagonists (and was planned to be replaced in Melee with the following protagonist, but we know how that went).

Cloud didn't come from the first Final Fantasy. He's just the most popular character in the entire franchise and was the most requested addition from it on the Ballot. And even then, other characters Sakurai mentioned from the franchise (Terra, Bartz, etc.) didn't come from the first game either.

Joker didn't come from the first Persona, he came from the latest. Hell, anything before Persona 3 isn't acknowledged, which is more notable than Smash strictly featuring Final Fantasy VII.

None of the playable Heroes come from the first Dragon Quest, with the default being from the latest one, and the earliest among the alts being from III.

Shulk does come from the first Xenoblade.....but at the time it was the ONLY Xenoblade so it's not like we could have had another protagonist over him instead. Can't really say one way or the other for sure if he'd have been picked first if for example, Rex and the Aegis were direct competition.

And even an example from a Mii Costume, Tales of Symphonia was neither the first nor latest in the Tales of franchise and yet Sakurai made it a point that Lloyd was a priority for the Mii Costume role out of all protagonists.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's not really all that weird when you realize that those "protagonists of the first game in a series" are generally still part of said series down the line as protagonist or at least a major character (i.e. being ironically in the "damsel in distress" role in the original DKC trilogy after the first title prior to the first Smash).

With series of rotating casts (which is pretty much the RPGs), it's more inconsistent as to who is picked first.

Marth is the protagonist of the first Fire Emblem (and third) and was picked. Now, he was the most requested one for Melee, but Sakurai was already considering him for the first Smash.

Ninten is the protagonist of the first Mother, but Ness got in instead, the latest of the two protagonists (and was planned to be replaced in Melee with the following protagonist, but we know how that went).

Cloud didn't come from the first Final Fantasy. He's just the most popular character in the entire franchise and was the most requested addition from it on the Ballot. And even then, other characters Sakurai mentioned from the franchise (Terra, Bartz, etc.) didn't come from the first game either.

Joker didn't come from the first Persona, he came from the latest. Hell, anything before Persona 3 isn't acknowledged, which is more notable than Smash strictly featuring Final Fantasy VII.

None of the playable Heroes come from the first Dragon Quest, with the default being from the latest one, and the earliest among the alts being from III.

Shulk does come from the first Xenoblade.....but at the time it was the ONLY Xenoblade so it's not like we could have had another protagonist over him instead. Can't really say one way or the other for sure if he'd have been picked first if for example, Rex and the Aegis were direct competition.

And even an example from a Mii Costume, Tales of Symphonia was neither the first nor latest in the Tales of franchise and yet Sakurai made it a point that Lloyd was a priority for the Mii Costume role out of all protagonists.

And while not the same kind of situation as JRPG protagonists, it should be noted that it took until Brawl for Pokémon to add starters into the roster.

Nowadays, they're the ONLY inclusion, but 64 and Melee did not feature any unless you're being pedantic and counting Yellow but let's be honest, Pikachu being a starter in a single game is in no way the reason he got in Smash

We got a Legendary before we got a starter, the latter being the closest thing to a protagonist Pokémon has outside of the playable trainer since they're the one you start your journey with.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

And while not the same kind of situation as JRPG protagonists, it should be noted that it took until Brawl for Pokémon to add starters into the roster.

Nowadays, they're the ONLY inclusion, but 64 and Melee did not feature any unless you're being pedantic and counting Yellow but let's be honest, Pikachu being a starter in a single game is in no way the reason he got in Smash

Not just starters, but the actual player character.


But I left Pokémon off my list specifically because Pikachu is a hodgepodge of "does it count or doesn't it?" for a number of reasons. Namely the fact it was a mascot rather than a player character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Not just starters, but the actual player character.


But I left Pokémon off my list specifically because Pikachu is a hodgepodge of "does it count or doesn't it?" for a number of reasons. Namely the fact it was a mascot rather than a player character.

Either way, RPGs are weird.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Besides Ninten, I have a better pick for a rep from not only Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings, but also the franchise as a whole. Giegue/Giygas, an echo fighter of Mewtwo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Besides Ninten, I have a better pick for a rep from not only Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings, but also the franchise as a whole. Giegue/Giygas, an echo fighter of Mewtwo.

I always think that's a weird take because yeah, they look alike but like...

You really want him to leave his little aquarium?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I always think that's a weird take because yeah, they look alike but like...

You really want him to leave his little aquarium?

I also think Porky would serve the function of representing across the franchise anyway because he has an inherent connection to Giygas through Earthbound, which connects back to Giegue, and then becomes the main antagonist of the third game, so like...

If we're talking Echoes he doesn't really work, but if we're talking generally then I think Porky works fine for that lol

 

[fogbadge]

i think the next earthbound character should be Boney

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

i think the next earthbound character should be Boney

That would mean having to beat up the dog and that's cruel

 

[fogbadge]

That would mean having to beat up the dog and that's cruel

I mean several people on here are advocating for a character who beat up said dog

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

That would mean having to beat up the dog and that's cruel

Nobody seems to mind doing that to the Duck Hunt dog.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nobody seems to mind doing that to the Duck Hunt dog.

He spent decades laughing at the player for missing. Beating him up is cathartic.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Giegue/Giygas, an echo fighter of Mewtwo.

No cross-franchise Echoes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

I really don't think there is, personally.

Ryo Sakazaki for Smash

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I really don't think there is, personally.

Ryo Sakazaki for Smash

Ooh then we could add Dan as his Echo Fighter!

 

[Gorgonzales]

Giygas is one of the very few characters I'm adamantly against becoming a fighter. Making him a tangible, playable character would be like giving Cthulhu a health bar.

He's meant to be an incomprehensible monstrosity; that kind of thing would be a lot easier to represent if he was an "assist" trophy or stage hazard, with his gaseous nightmare form covering the entire background as everyone (including the summoner) receives damage, knockback, and status effects at frequent or seemingly random intervals.

You cannot grasp the true form of his attacks.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ooh then we could add Dan as his Echo Fighter!

Yeah, you get it LMAO

 

[ninjahmos]

View attachment 395255

Giygas is one of the very few characters I'm adamantly against becoming a fighter. Making him a tangible, playable character would be like giving Cthulhu a health bar.

He's meant to be an incomprehensible monstrosity; that kind of thing would be a lot easier to represent if he was an "assist" trophy or stage hazard, with his gaseous nightmare form covering the entire background as everyone (including the summoner) receives damage, knockback, and status effects at frequent or seemingly random intervals.

You cannot grasp the true form of his attacks.

Imagine if they made him a boss…

 

[cashregister9]

Mother characters are a weird situation, where so many proposals and requests feel forced to fill a quota and not much else.

Like yeah Ninten could be a full character, but considering how every time I see Ninten requested 99% of the time they only use the Smash fan design for him, I feel there is not much there that could be done without some heavy lifting.

Yeah, Mother 1 Giygas does kinda look like Mewtwo, literally anything else outside of that is either the antithesis to the character or entirely made up

The Antithesis thing also applies to Masked Man

But that is not me saying that there are no good picks, Porky or any of the other party members from the series are fine picks.

It's just the select few most popular that feel off to me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters.

Because reasons!

if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

There is!

Imagine if they made him a boss…

Basically the same.

 

[ScrubReborn]

But if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

I guess in theory there wouldn't, but there are very, very few cross-series clone ideas like that that would actually work. And most of the more common cross-series suggestions I've seen... aren't amongst those few. A lot of them make Falcondorf seem like Steve

 

[Laniv]

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

Outside of Mewtwo/Giygas and maybe Piranha Plant/Deku Baba, who could even work as a cross series Echo? I mean, we could probably do Ice Climbers/Hammer Bros, but that's a massive stretch.

Hold on...

Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but

Well...I suppose Gannondorf

Gannondorf

Mildly relevant

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just want to see, as we talk about the Earthbound series, I've been looking at a playthrough of Earthbound for a few days now...by DSP. lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

I genuinely think Blaziken should be added as Captain Falcon echo.

You could easily build off of that by using the basic moves Blaziken is associated with. Plus Blaziken is goated.