Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheLamerGamer]

A Samurai, eh?

 

[Ivander]

I think trying to give Chrono Trigger super high-quality graphics while keeping the gameplay and camera intact would look super awkward and not even look good. As overused as it is, HD-2D is probably the best way to handle a remake if the graphics need an update, which they don't imo.

...to tie this to speculation, uhhhhh, Robo for Smash!

Finally...the greatest meme in Smash Bros.

 

[DKing]

A Samuai, eh?

View attachment 392486
I really feel like if Persona 5 was made a bit later. We would have had a SMT rep. Even before the announcement of ultimate people advocate for that. Like for example in some forum they talk about Jack frost and the protagonist of SMT III or II.( for the last part I don't remember correctly.)

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I really feel like if Persona 5 was made a bit later. We would have had a SMT rep. Even before the announcement of ultimate people advocate for that. Like for example in some forum they talk about Jack frost and the protagonist of SMT III or II.( for the last part I don't remember correctly.)

It'll be III or IV, that picture was the IV protag. After SMTVV was so successful I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we got a rep, even if ultimate was its best shot with smtv releasing... (yes I am biased but like, I really do think it has a good shot)

And tbh after the fire emblem x smt thing I'd be a bit surprised if it wasn't considered, even if tms wasn't... what people wanted (to say the least), the eshop deal did pretty well iirc

 

[DKing]

It'll be III or IV, that picture was the IV protag. After SMTVV was so successful I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we got a rep, even if ultimate was its best shot with smtv releasing... (yes I am biased but like, I really do think it has a good shot)

And tbh after the fire emblem x smt thing I'd be a bit surprised if it wasn't considered, even if tms wasn't... what people wanted (to say the least), the eshop deal did pretty well iirc

I still don't understand why sega didn't let us have a Jack Frost hat or mii costume to represent the megami tensei series. Like for slime,choco-bo, the cat from monster hunter, the cat from inklings, mr Saturn.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I still don't understand why sega didn't let us have a Jack Frost hat or mii costume to represent the megami tensei series. Like for slime,choco-bo, the cat from monster hunter, the cat from inklings, mr Saturn.

No clue, I'm equally surprised we never got an SMTV spirit event honestly, but it is what it is I guess. But there's only so much content they'll ever be able to put in the game, there'll always be something missing that you feel should be there (and as biased as I am, there are far more glaring omissions than SMT)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

SMT is quite separated from Persona to begin with to Atlus(they are not the same franchise in itself, though they are connected). So it's not even a franchise with any content in Smash at all. Also, it may have never been requested by Sakurai to begin with. Possibly because he only was going for Persona stuff, not parts it's partially connected to.

At least with the examples given, they already were grouped with their franchise or had content in Smash to begin with. Or in other cases, are returning Mii Costumes. There's bound to be some odd examples beyond what was given, though. But yeah, it's kind of hard to compare it to franchises already in Smash getting a Hat, since SMT never was in Smash to begin with. It'd have been nice, don't get me wrong. But Persona =/= SMT. It doesn't help the connection was only emphasized in the West via the titles on the game. Something that was never in the Japanese releases, so it gives the illusion they're more connected than they really are. Basically? It's not really surprising given they're different franchises.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I'd consider them both branches of the Megami Tensei brand, like Persona is literally in the same universe as SMT if...

But yeah persona and SMT are officially considered separate, and Sakurai 100% prefers modern persona to the other games, so I'm absolutely not surprised P5 was what they wanted to represent (especially considering its popularity).

 

[fogbadge]

Is it not possible the two are separate licenses?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is it not possible the two are separate licenses?

Oh, they absolutely are. I should've mentioned that too. Thanks for noting it~

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m kind of surprised they haven’t remade any of the NES or SNES Final Fantasy games in the HD-2D style. Final Fantasy VI would be awesome in the Octopath style in my opinion.

Well, yeah, Octopath's style is basically just "FF6 with extra effects". Conversely, I don't think HD2D really suits Toryama's art style at all.

I feel like they WOULD have made HD2D FF remakes...if they hadn't JUST done the Pixel Remasters.

Most of them aren't even Samurai. Lyn's not a Samurai. Vergil's not a Samurai. Not even Sephiroth is a Samurai. A character using a katana is no basis for being termed a class of the system.

Odd of you to assume I was referring to just...any character with a katana. Instead of characters like Haohmaru, Mitsurugi, Samanosuke, any version of Nobunaga, etc.

But even if I was:

Being a member of the Japanese warrior caste derives from a following towards the ruling executive of that caste, not because of a git being decent at wielding a one-edge chopping knife.

That's a ridiculously restrictive interpretation of the samurai archetype. Because it means no character from a fictional setting can ever be counted as a samurai, because they aren't from Japan. Even if they are literally called a samurai in game.

So according to you: Cyan from FF6, not a samurai.

Yeah, I feel like a drastic change like that is probably better saved for a sequel. I think it could still work for a remake if they adjusted the camera and animations while keeping the general gameplay in tact.

Disagree. If any SE game deserves to have the same kind of effort poured into it that FF7R is getting, it's Chrono Trigger.

Any game that was made using Toriyama's art should LOOK like Toriyama's art.

 

[Ivander]

Odd of you to assume I was referring to just...any character with a katana. Instead of characters like Haohmaru, Mitsurugi, Samanosuke, any version of Nobunaga, etc.

But even if I was:That's a ridiculously restrictive interpretation of the samurai archetype. Because it means no character from a fictional setting can ever be counted as a samurai, because they aren't from Japan. Even if they are literally called a samurai in game.

So according to you: Cyan from FF6, not a samurai.

Hence nobody voted for you and why you're not their king.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Hence nobody voted for you and why you're not their king.

Be quiet or he'll repress you.

 

[ninjahmos]

View attachment 392477
You name the role/class/etc, Nintendo more than likely has a character for that role/class/etc.

Honestly, Takamaru is still long overdue to this day.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A Chrono Trigger remake feels like it has three potential paths:

HD-2D (Logical though some might claim not quite grand enough for a game with CT's status)

Final Fantasy VII esque reimagining (Incredible potential, but possibly risky given Chrono Trigger lacks the same safe numbers as FFVII & too many changes could alienate some fans)

Straight up 3D version of the 2D game ala Trials of Mana (Still a bit of untested concept outside the ToM remake but might be the best chance to stay true to the original game while giving a bigger shine for a modern audience)

I to think Square Enix is cooking something with it though; it being the most famous pre-2008 SE RPG not on Switch given the market there feels like a deliberate choice while they work on a significant port/remake.

 

[SPEN18]

I decided to look at the franchise included in Smash. I wanted to compare the number of first party franchises with characters and the number of third party franchises with characters. There are 40 franchises with playable characters. There are 25 first party franchises and 15 third party franchises. As a bonus there are 9 first party franchises with stages but no playable characters.

First Party

1. Super Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. The Legend of Zelda
4. Metroid
5. Yoshi
6. Kirby
7. Star Fox
8. Pokemon
9. Earthbound
10. F-Zero
11. Ice Climber
12. Fire Emblem
13. Game & Watch
14. Kid Icarus
15. Wario
16. Pikmin
17. R.O.B.
18. Animal Crossing
19. Wii Fit
20. Punch Out!!
21. Mii
22. Xenoblade Chronicles
23. Duck Hunt
24. Splatoon
25. ARMS

Third Party

1. Metal Gear
2. Sonic the Hedgehog
3. Mega Man
4. Pac-Man
5. Street Fighter
6. Final Fantasy
7. Bayonetta
8. Castlevania
9. Persona
10. Dragon Quest
11. Banjo Kazooie
12. Fatal Fury
13. Minecraft
14. Tekken
15. Kingdom Hearts

First Party Franchises with No Playable Characters

1. Electroplankton
2. Pictochat
3. Balloon Fight
4. Nintendogs
5. Find Mii
6. Tomodacchi Life
7. Wrecking Crew
8. Pilotwings
9. Wii Sports

As I'm sure you know, just looking at the number of franchises doesn't tell the whole story since there are no third party franchises with over 2 characters (and only one with 2 uniques), while on the other hand there are several first party franchises with 3+ characters and even then some with way more than that. The fact that the third party list looks longer than you might think relative to the first party one is reflective of the difference in the way third parties are handled.

But one thing that stands out about this list is the relationship between third parties and DLC. Already 7/15 third party franchises were added in Ult's DLC alone, and a whopping 10/15 got their first character via DLC. Again this isn't a new observation, just something that immediately comes to mind when I see this.

As for the franchises with a stage but no PC, it's certainly an odd list. Much of the list is literally stages associated to the Miis: Find Mii, Tomodachi Life, Wii Sports, even the Pilotwings stage in part.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd consider them both branches of the Megami Tensei brand, like Persona is literally in the same universe as SMT if...

But yeah persona and SMT are officially considered separate, and Sakurai 100% prefers modern persona to the other games, so I'm absolutely not surprised P5 was what they wanted to represent (especially considering its popularity).

That's why I didn't say Universe, but Franchise. They are treated as separate franchises. It's no different from the Marvel Universe, which has multiple franchises under the same branch overall.

It makes sense. We just got a misleading localization. They will always be connected.

Licensing being different could've been the entire reason why, really. Since they're different franchises, Atlus and Sega may not have been willing to bundle them together. Especially with how much emphasis is on the fact they are separate. But who knows.

Maybe next game. That'd be a sweet DLC costume(3rd party costumes have been so far DLC, so that's unlikely to change).

 

[Megadoomer]

And the Scarlet and Violet Spirits.

My mistake; I thought it went various Switch releases --> Scarlet and Violet --> various third parties --> new Mario games.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

That's why I didn't say Universe, but Franchise. They are treated as separate franchises. It's no different from the Marvel Universe, which has multiple franchises under the same branch overall.

It makes sense. We just got a misleading localization. They will always be connected.

Licensing being different could've been the entire reason why, really. Since they're different franchises, Atlus and Sega may not have been willing to bundle them together. Especially with how much emphasis is on the fact they are separate. But who knows.

Maybe next game. That'd be a sweet DLC costume(3rd party costumes have been so far DLC, so that's unlikely to change).

I mean, Persona 1 was known as Megami Ibunroku Persona in Japan, explicitly stating it was a Megami Tensei spinoff (Devil Survivor 1 had the same, Devil Summoner 1 was explicitly called Shin Megami Tensei). So definitely part of the same series originally, although of course they're considered separate now though.

And for Jack Frost specifically, SMT demons seem to be part of the package with persona looking at P5X, P4AU, BlazBlue Crosstag, etc., so not having him was 100% a choice.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, Persona 1 was known as Megami Ibunroku Persona in Japan, explicitly stating it was a Megami Tensei spinoff (Devil Survivor 1 had the same, Devil Summoner 1 was explicitly called Shin Megami Tensei). So definitely part of the same series originally, although of course they're considered separate now though.

And for Jack Frost specifically, SMT demons seem to be part of the package with persona looking at P5X, P4AU, BlazBlue Crosstag, etc., so not having him was 100% a choice.

To clarify, Shin Megami Tensei is separate from Persona. That's what I mean. It's only the US that tried to combine them. I'm aware that they both are MegaTen proper~

MegaTen is the name of the universe itself(hence why I say Franchise and Universe separately in this context. I guess no matter how you go about it, it's a bit confusing).

Do you mean a choice by Atlus in the context of Smash, or Sakurai, or both? That said, do keep in mind that Nintendo chose Joker, not Sakurai, in the first place. Not that it means much, but it's not really Sakurai specifically acknowledging the franchise when it came to a reason it's chosen in the first place. That said, the fact Smash doesn't have any SMT content isn't necessarily on Nintendo, Sakurai, or Atlus. There's variables. Atlus keeps them separate, but they may not have anything to do with the choice from the start. Nintendo probably didn't choose the extra content, though. It was likely Sakurai, but we don't know anything behind the Mii Costumes much at all when it came to the passes. Returning ones aside, anyway.

 

[smashkirby]

So this came out of nowhere!

A day after showing that teaser for "Emio", all of the sudden, Starfy 1, 2 and 3 are coming over to the West on the GBA NSO! Sadly untranslated, but still(hopefully this means Custom Robo V1 and V2 for the West N64 NSO). And the NES NSO Update with the 7 NES games was just around 8 days ago, near the start of the month.

When did Nintendo start cooking and why are they cooking so quickly?

Still amazed at Starfy feasting the way he is this month. By the way, I'd like to point out that Sin & Punishment WAS one of the N64 NSO's FIRST games, so between that and now Starfy? I don't know, perhaps Custom Robo DOES have a legitimate shot.

Still though, I'm also a bit thrown by Starfy's games not getting translated. Does anyone think they might ever consider patching this, given Starfy being a fair bit more 'story-driven' than games like Puyo Puyo and Panel de Pon?

R.O.B.'s stage shouldn't be Gyromite or Stack-Up, it should just be a big desk with an NES and a big real-life R.O.B. in the background.
(I'm joking. Mostly.)

View attachment 392374

Also... looking at the real thing makes me realize just how much we take R.O.B. as a Smash character for granted. Possibly one of the most creative interpretations & implementations of a character into the series, and he's a peripheral. It's seriously cool how Smash breathed new life into this character with the laser eyes and spinny arms and all that. It's just easy to forget because he's been a playable character for forever.

R.O.B. in particular is just another reason why I always give props to Sakurai and the Smash Bros. dev team. Specifically in terms of characters being having little-to-no moveset potential. If characters like R.O.B. and Duck Hunt are any indication, you just have to be creative enough, I guess.

Like, given R.O.B.'s rep as a rather annoying NES peripheral (even if he did save Nintendo and gaming as a whole), I can't say I would have EVER expected the 'little' guy to gain the ability to fire laser beams from his eyes AND have a built-in rocket pack.

On the subject of R.O.B. getting a stage of his own... well, I need to re-watch some gameplay of Gyromite, but from what I can vaguely remember of the game, I've been of the belief that 75m could be 'reskinned' to be a Gyromite stage...

That's a good point. There are very few stages from series with no characters. Counting the Mii Related stages as apart of a larger "Mii" series, there's:

• PictoChat
• Hannenbow
• Balloon Fight
• Living Room
• PictoChat 2
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Miiverse

SSB4 added almost every single one of these, with only two coming from Brawl. I'd imagine Ultimate is an outlier since it was focused on adding returning stages, and making sure the new fighters had a home stage, so perhaps we could expect to see more stages like this in the next game.

A lot of these stages are pretty random too. We've got DSware twice, a small 3rd party game that Nintendo decided to publish, 2 arcade style NES games, a pretty big virtual pet simulator series, a flight simulator, and a social media stage. Wonder what we'll get next.

And I gotta say, Pilotwings and Nintendogs have definitely earned the right to some kind of major and visible representation.

I mean...

Spoiler

Look... just never let it be said that Pilotwings has NO options for playable character/Assist Trophy character representation, alright?

Heck, this is the ONE game where the characters were probably as big a focus as the vehicles.

Sheik wasn't a bad choice. At that given time. But I just generally feel Melee having 5 Zelda characters and 4 newcomers all added at once withheld a lot of potential other newcomers for Zelda. Ultimate having 6 with the return of Young Link is a good number, but it's quantity over quality I feel. How do we justify 3 Links, 2 Zeldas and 3 cloney characters ?

The fact a Toon Zelda and even a Toon Sheik where seriously requested for Brawl makes matters even worse. Imagine we ended up with that? And they'd be forced back into the roster in Ultimate? Alongside Young Link ? Disastrous.

Zelda is the biggest franchise that needs it's roster reset and done right. I feel this is far more necessary than even Fire Emblem and Pokémon.

I think I made a point about this (Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik/Tetra joining Brawl alongside Toon Link) about a month or so ago, and I won't lie to you all... if that really DID pan out (T. Zelda and T. Sheik/Tetra being playable in Brawl), I honestly can't say with a straight face that I wouldn't laughing my butt off that the Smash Bros. dev team seem to be THAT committed to the Triforce Trio serving as TLoZ's playable representation, while everyone else gets to be an AT or lesser.

For the record, I'd like Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, Fi, Linkle, Lana, and the rest of them in Smash, so it's not like such a thing WOULDN'T still bug me a bit.

Who is your favorite koopaling? Mine is

Larry, probably.

While I'm on the subject of the Koopalings, I'd like to quickly point out that they're (among other things) a BIG part of what convinced me to go out of my way to buy Smash 4. Heck, they're more-or-less what convinced to give a rat's tail about the idea of Jr. joining Smash again after Brawl just didn't add him.

I don't know, my support for Jr. just waned after Brawl's full roster was revealed and I just wasn't that jazzed about him in Smash 4... UNTIL the ESRB leak showed off the gameplay of Jr. AND featured a shot of Larry Koopa's trophy, complete with him driving a Junior Clown Car of his own (something that I had NO memory of him doing in Mario canon up to that point).

View attachment 392477
You name the role/class/etc, Nintendo more than likely has a character for that role/class/etc.

nintendo has hundreds of franchises, it's just everyone's caught up in things like relevance and what have you that no one gives the bucket load of nintendo franchises not used a glance. and even then there's all the people who want to be "big" series so even all the franchises that have had revivals in recent years aren't good enough for them. Advance Wars, Big Brain Academy, Famicom Detective Club, Another Code, Endless Ocean and the like are all in the best position they've been in for years. but barely anyone is going to give them a look in

Any franchise can have a fighter if they put their imagination to it. Although that seems to be where they fall down

as for hype well I don’t think it’s all there is, I’m look at Terry and byleth

As someone on here had mentioned a while back (I think it was you, Ivander ), from RPG protags to cheerleaders to robots to dinosaurs to war veterans to detectives (and everything in-between), Nintendo has no shortage of first-party options that could easily cover nearly any all niches in Smash, before a third-party could do so.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

To clarify, Shin Megami Tensei is separate from Persona. That's what I mean. It's only the US that tried to combine them. I'm aware that they both are MegaTen proper~

Oh yeah that's definitely true, Persona and SMT are different, but they were, at least initially, spinoffs of thr general Megami Tensei brand.

MegaTen is the name of the universe itself(hence why I say Franchise and Universe separately in this context. I guess no matter how you go about it, it's a bit confusing).

Yeah, I'm very aware of this as a huge megaten fan, although as you say it's still confusing (I just prefer to group them together personally, even if it's not 100% accurate).

Do you mean a choice by Atlus in the context of Smash, or Sakurai, or both?

I personally think that either Sakurai or Nintendo wanted to keep it to all persona original content rather than any generic megaten stuff (or even any classic persona stuff beyond aria of the soul and Igor), because ATLUS have never had an issue with Jack frost being in persona crossovers (I mean, he's literally the company mascot).

 

[Garteam]

I’m lucky enough to currently be in Japan on a vacation. Since it’s humid as all get out and I’m a little hung over, here’s some of my observations regarding how various franchises represented in Smash appear to be treated here:

Let me know if there’s anything not on the list that you guys want to look into while I’m still here and/or anything on the list that you want me to elaborate on.

• Kirby is a lot more popular and mainstream here than I thought. I’ve seen Kirby toys, Kirby postcards, and even people walking around with Kirby merch just from travelling the streets of Tokyo and Kyoto. It’s a lot more understandable to me why Bandana Dee is so popular.
• Pokemon is still massive. Little kids wear the shirts, Pokemon decorate the subway stations, and Pikachu-branded items are sold everywhere. Pikachu and the Paldea starters seem to be most common monsters to see. Lily from the anime is also in a lot of the public promotional materials. You can tell TPC is trying to push her as the new Ash.
• Mario is surprisingly less omnipresent than I thought he would be. You occasionally see people in Mario merch, but most of the advertising/goods I see relating to Mario are general Nintendo goods with Mario branding (e.g. bags from the Nintendo Store in Shibuya with the Nintendo logo and Mario’s jumping pose).
• Splatoon seems to be pretty trendy, as I was able to find a lot of little keychains and other assorted items in various shops I went into. It’s definitely behind Kirby and Pokemon in terms of the extent of how merchandised it is.
• I only saw Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing in Nintendo’s Store, but all three of them were promoted pretty heavily in there. The only Star Fox thing I saw was an old statute based on Fox’s NES design in Super Potato. I haven’t seen anything Metroid.
• Capcom’s store primarily sold goods based on Monster Hunter and, surprisingly, Mega Man (Classic and Battle Network exclusively, believe me, I looked for X merch). Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Okami also received a good amount of representation (I had to fight the urge to get Ammy slippers). Only DMC merch I saw was a cylindrical Dante plush.
• The way Smash represents fighting games makes a lot more sense to me after visiting Japanese arcades. Tekken and Street Fighter seem to be the only series that I could consistently find modern cabinets for and, even then, Japanese people only really seemed to take to Tekken (with Street Fighter V/VI mostly being touched by tourists). Most of the fighting games I saw were candy cabinets running classic Capcom and SNK games from the golden age of fighting games (randomly finding Marvel 2 and JoJo HftF in the wild was pretty awesome). You get the sense that fighting games in arcades is mostly a nostalgia thing, with crane and rhythm games being the main draw for local, modern audiences.
• Sonic doesn’t seem to be super popular, but you can tell Sega is attempting to push it a little more. Joel from Vinesauce made a joke about how the only Sonic thing he could find in Japan was a picture of the guy on a trash bin in the then-Sega arcades. Now, the blue rat is plastered everywhere in the GIGO amusement centre in Minato.
• Shockingly, I haven’t seen any Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest beyond classic game shops.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I’m lucky enough to currently be in Japan on a vacation. Since it’s humid as all get out and I’m a little hung over, here’s some of my observations regarding how various franchises represented in Smash appear to be treated here:

Let me know if there’s anything not on the list that you guys want to look into while I’m still here and/or anything on the list that you want me to elaborate on.

• Kirby is a lot more popular and mainstream here than I thought. I’ve seen Kirby toys, Kirby postcards, and even people walking around with Kirby merch just from travelling the streets of Tokyo and Kyoto. It’s a lot more understandable to me why Bandana Dee is
• Pokemon is still massive. Little kids wear the shirts, Pokemon decorate the subway stations, and Pikachu-branded items are sold everywhere. Pikachu and the Paldea starters seem to be most common monsters to see. Lily from the anime is also in a lot of the public promotional materials. You can tell TPC is trying to push her as the new Ash.
• Mario is surprisingly less omnipresent than I thought he would be. You occasionally see people in Mario merch, but most of the advertising/goods I see relating to Mario are general Nintendo goods with Mario branding (e.g. bags from the Nintendo Store in Shibuya with the Nintendo logo and Mario’s jumping pose).
• Splatoon seems to be pretty trendy, as I was able to find a lot of little keychains and other assorted items in various shops I went into. It’s definitely behind Kirby and Pokemon in terms of the extent of how merchandised it is.
• I only saw Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing in Nintendo’s Store, but all three of them were promoted pretty heavily in there. The only Star Fox thing I saw was an old statute based on Fox’s NES design in Super Potato. I haven’t seen anything Metroid.
• Capcom’s store primarily sold goods based on Monster Hunter and, surprisingly, Mega Man (Classic and Battle Network exclusively, believe me, I looked for X merch). Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Okami also received a good amount of representation (I had to fight the urge to get Ammy slippers). Only DMC merch I saw was a cylindrical Dante plush.
• The way Smash represents fighting games makes a lot more sense to me after visiting Japanese arcades. Tekken and Street Fighter seem to be the only series that I could consistently find modern cabinets for and, even then, Japanese people only really seemed to take to Tekken (with Street Fighter V/VI mostly being touched by tourists). Most of the fighting games I saw were candy cabinets running classic Capcom and SNK games from the golden age of fighting games (randomly finding Marvel 2 and JoJo HftF in the wild was pretty awesome). You get the sense that fighting games in arcades is mostly a nostalgia thing, with crane and rhythm games being the main draw for local, modern audiences.
• Sonic doesn’t seem to be super popular, but you can tell Sega is attempting to push it a little more. Joel from Vinesauce made a joke about how the only Sonic thing he could find in Japan was a picture of the guy on a trash bin in the then-Sega arcades. Now, the blue rat is plastered everywhere in the GIGO amusement centre in Minato.
• Shockingly, I haven’t seen any Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest beyond classic game shops.

Weird that there was zero Konami presence in your trip.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

• Capcom’s store primarily sold goods based on Monster Hunter and, surprisingly, Mega Man (Classic and Battle Network exclusively, believe me, I looked for X merch). Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Okami also received a good amount of representation (I had to fight the urge to get Ammy slippers). Only DMC merch I saw was a cylindrical Dante plush.

It's really amazing how despite not being one of Capcom's big sellers, they give Okami a lot of love.

Gives me a little hope for Amaterasu in Smash in spite of her steep competition.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Japanese people only really seemed to take to Tekken

I thought when it came to Tekken having Asian fans, it was more of a Korean/SE Asian thing than being popular in its native Japan. The SE Asian fans are why Tekken 7 added Josie, a Filipino.

 

[fogbadge]

I’m lucky enough to currently be in Japan on a vacation. Since it’s humid as all get out and I’m a little hung over, here’s some of my observations regarding how various franchises represented in Smash appear to be treated here:

Let me know if there’s anything not on the list that you guys want to look into while I’m still here and/or anything on the list that you want me to elaborate on.

• Kirby is a lot more popular and mainstream here than I thought. I’ve seen Kirby toys, Kirby postcards, and even people walking around with Kirby merch just from travelling the streets of Tokyo and Kyoto. It’s a lot more understandable to me why Bandana Dee is so popular.
• Pokemon is still massive. Little kids wear the shirts, Pokemon decorate the subway stations, and Pikachu-branded items are sold everywhere. Pikachu and the Paldea starters seem to be most common monsters to see. Lily from the anime is also in a lot of the public promotional materials. You can tell TPC is trying to push her as the new Ash.
• Mario is surprisingly less omnipresent than I thought he would be. You occasionally see people in Mario merch, but most of the advertising/goods I see relating to Mario are general Nintendo goods with Mario branding (e.g. bags from the Nintendo Store in Shibuya with the Nintendo logo and Mario’s jumping pose).
• Splatoon seems to be pretty trendy, as I was able to find a lot of little keychains and other assorted items in various shops I went into. It’s definitely behind Kirby and Pokemon in terms of the extent of how merchandised it is.
• I only saw Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing in Nintendo’s Store, but all three of them were promoted pretty heavily in there. The only Star Fox thing I saw was an old statute based on Fox’s NES design in Super Potato. I haven’t seen anything Metroid.
• Capcom’s store primarily sold goods based on Monster Hunter and, surprisingly, Mega Man (Classic and Battle Network exclusively, believe me, I looked for X merch). Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Okami also received a good amount of representation (I had to fight the urge to get Ammy slippers). Only DMC merch I saw was a cylindrical Dante plush.
• The way Smash represents fighting games makes a lot more sense to me after visiting Japanese arcades. Tekken and Street Fighter seem to be the only series that I could consistently find modern cabinets for and, even then, Japanese people only really seemed to take to Tekken (with Street Fighter V/VI mostly being touched by tourists). Most of the fighting games I saw were candy cabinets running classic Capcom and SNK games from the golden age of fighting games (randomly finding Marvel 2 and JoJo HftF in the wild was pretty awesome). You get the sense that fighting games in arcades is mostly a nostalgia thing, with crane and rhythm games being the main draw for local, modern audiences.
• Sonic doesn’t seem to be super popular, but you can tell Sega is attempting to push it a little more. Joel from Vinesauce made a joke about how the only Sonic thing he could find in Japan was a picture of the guy on a trash bin in the then-Sega arcades. Now, the blue rat is plastered everywhere in the GIGO amusement centre in Minato.
• Shockingly, I haven’t seen any Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest beyond classic game shops.

I would have guessed it’d be like that

 

[Sucumbio]

Who is your favorite koopaling? Mine is

It's the hair lol

 

[Garteam]

Weird that there was zero Konami presence in your trip.

I actually forgot about Konami lol. The only thing I’ve seen frequently from them is Bomberman, with both the classic candy cabinets and the new Bombergirl cabinets being staples of arcades. Beyond that, I did see the old shooters in arcades and retro game stores and Super Potato has a cool Snake statute.

I haven’t gone in any Pachinko parlours, so I haven’t seen anything like the elusive MGS machine.

It's really amazing how despite not being one of Capcom's big sellers, they give Okami a lot of love.

Gives me a little hope for Amaterasu in Smash in spite of her steep competition.

Between Okami doing so well on the Japanese side of the Capcom poll from a month ago and how much merchandise I saw, I have a good feeling about some Okami representation in the next Smash, even if it’s just an assist trophy.

If there’s one game that deserves all the love in the world, it’s Okami. It’s a genuine masterpiece.

I thought when it came to Tekken having Asian fans, it was more of a Korean/SE Asian thing than being popular in its native Japan. The SE Asian fans are why Tekken 7 added Josie, a Filipino.

I can’t comment on Korea and South East Asia generally, but Tekken is moreso the most popular offering in what appears to be a more niche genre among the general public. It’s still pretty visibly liked, though. One of the Taito arcades I went to in Akihabara had four Tekken 7 cabinets that were each occupied.

I think the smaller arcades actually structure their fighting games around tourism and Western tastes. Super Potato had Street Fighter Alpha, Marvel 2, and (bizarrely) SvC Chaos. The Taito arcade that had the Tekken 7 cabinets had JoJo HtfF as its only candy cabinet fighter. It’s my understanding that these titles (barring Alpha) are more popular internationally than in Japan, but my sample size might be off. I’m going to HEY Taito later this week, which has a larger offering of fighters, so maybe I’ll see something there.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I could see an Okami sequel as a Switch 2 timed exclusive in the next couple of years. Beyond the touch screen controls feeling perfect for the gameplay, the install base a Switch successor will likely have in both Japan and the West on top of Nintendo marketing in a better position to get the word out via Directs?

It's a hypothetical title that could do some very solid sales if done right.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Who is your favorite koopaling? Mine is

This household is an Iggy household.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

It's just occurred to me that assuming smash 6 releases in 2026, depending on when it's revealed I will have gone through almost all of high school and all of university between the reveal of ultimate and the next game's reveal (and all of uni between Sora and the next game's reveal). How do I feel old when I'm only turning in 20 in a month and a bit. Ew...

Genuinely excited for a smash game to release while I'm not actually a kid, playing ultimate day 1 is one of my most vivid memories, I still get vaguely excited thinking of it, so being an actual part of the community in the lead up to the next game will be really fun! (Hopefully...)

 

[jamesster445]

It's just occurred to me that assuming smash 6 releases in 2026, depending on when it's revealed I will have gone through almost all of high school and all of university between the reveal of ultimate and the next game's reveal (and all of uni between Sora and the next game's reveal). How do I feel old when I'm only turning in 20 in a month and a bit. Ew...

Haha you get used to it.

64 came out when I was elementary
Melee came out in middle
Brawl came out in High school
4 came out when I was getting a bachelor's
And Ultimate ended the year I got married.
By the time 6 comes out, I might have a kid.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Haha you get used to it.

64 came out when I was elementary
Melee came out in middle
Brawl came out in High school
4 came out when I was getting a bachelor's
And Ultimate ended the year I got married.
By the time 6 comes out, I might have a kid.

Yeah for me Brawl was when I was a small kid (never owned it but my cousin did), 4 was in primary (uk version of elementary), ultimate in high school.

I guess time does indeed pass (far more quickly than I'd like). Although after reading that I don't feel like university is quite as big a thing, certainly not compared to getting married and having a kid - slightly terrified by the fact my life might change that much between 6 and the next game, because 8 years really isn't long in the grand scheme of things...

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I always hear people talking about Cuts so…
Every character in Smash Bros. who has an actual specific reason to be cut and why:

Reasons:

1. Cut In The Past: Self explanatory, This doesn’t apply to characters who were cut due to console limitations. (I'm not counting Lucas.)
2. Redundant: A character whose inclusion has been made unnecessary by another character added later.
3. Most Recent Entry: A Character who was added specifically to promote an at the time recent game. Certain (FIRST PARTY) characters are left exempt from this reason due to either their Popularity, Ease of Implementation, or Importance to Smash series.
4. Weird License Situation: Self explanatory.
5. Gimmick Specific: This is hard to explain but it applies to characters that were added specifically for a feature included in a specific Smash entry.

Characters:

1. Dr. Mario, Cut In The Past
2. Pichu, Cut In The Past/Most Recent Entry
3. Young Link, Cut In The Past/Redundant
4. Mewtwo, Cut In The Past/Redundant
5. Roy, Cut In The Past
6. Zero Suit Samus, Redundant (Maybe, Now that Dark Samus has been added)
7. Snake, Cut In The Past
8. Wolf, Cut In The Past
9. Palutena, Gimmick Specific
10. Robin, Most Recent Entry
11. Ken, Gimmick Specific (Cause he is meant to represent Echo Fighters as a concept)
12. Corrin, Most Recent Entry
13. Incineroar, Most Recent Entry
14. Joker, Most Recent Entry
15. Terry, Weird License Situation
16. Sephiroth, Most Recent Entry (FF7 Remake)
17. Sora, Weird License Situation

 

[smashkirby]

I’m lucky enough to currently be in Japan on a vacation. Since it’s humid as all get out and I’m a little hung over, here’s some of my observations regarding how various franchises represented in Smash appear to be treated here:

Let me know if there’s anything not on the list that you guys want to look into while I’m still here and/or anything on the list that you want me to elaborate on.

• Kirby is a lot more popular and mainstream here than I thought. I’ve seen Kirby toys, Kirby postcards, and even people walking around with Kirby merch just from travelling the streets of Tokyo and Kyoto. It’s a lot more understandable to me why Bandana Dee is so popular.
• Pokémon is still massive. Little kids wear the shirts, Pokémon decorate the subway stations, and Pikachu-branded items are sold everywhere. Pikachu and the Paldea starters seem to be most common monsters to see. Lily from the anime is also in a lot of the public promotional materials. You can tell TPC is trying to push her as the new Ash.
• Mario is surprisingly less omnipresent than I thought he would be. You occasionally see people in Mario merch, but most of the advertising/goods I see relating to Mario are general Nintendo goods with Mario branding (e.g. bags from the Nintendo Store in Shibuya with the Nintendo logo and Mario’s jumping pose).
• Splatoon seems to be pretty trendy, as I was able to find a lot of little keychains and other assorted items in various shops I went into. It’s definitely behind Kirby and Pokémon in terms of the extent of how merchandised it is.
• I only saw Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing in Nintendo’s Store, but all three of them were promoted pretty heavily in there. The only Star Fox thing I saw was an old statute based on Fox’s NES design in Super Potato. I haven’t seen anything Metroid.
• Capcom’s store primarily sold goods based on Monster Hunter and, surprisingly, Mega Man (Classic and Battle Network exclusively, believe me, I looked for X merch). Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Okami also received a good amount of representation (I had to fight the urge to get Ammy slippers). Only DMC merch I saw was a cylindrical Dante plush.
• The way Smash represents fighting games makes a lot more sense to me after visiting Japanese arcades. Tekken and Street Fighter seem to be the only series that I could consistently find modern cabinets for and, even then, Japanese people only really seemed to take to Tekken (with Street Fighter V/VI mostly being touched by tourists). Most of the fighting games I saw were candy cabinets running classic Capcom and SNK games from the golden age of fighting games (randomly finding Marvel 2 and JoJo HftF in the wild was pretty awesome). You get the sense that fighting games in arcades is mostly a nostalgia thing, with crane and rhythm games being the main draw for local, modern audiences.
• Sonic doesn’t seem to be super popular, but you can tell Sega is attempting to push it a little more. Joel from Vinesauce made a joke about how the only Sonic thing he could find in Japan was a picture of the guy on a trash bin in the then-Sega arcades. Now, the blue rat is plastered everywhere in the GIGO amusement centre in Minato.
• Shockingly, I haven’t seen any Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest beyond classic game shops.

Yeah, I'd say this all sounds about right. ESPECIALLY Kirby. I imagine most of the Kirby merch involved Kirby and the Waddle Dees (B.W.D. included), right? If nothing else, it makes sense why B.W.D. is probably Japan's #1 first-party request.

If you don't mind me asking, is there more of a Namco presence outside of Tekken?

Spoiler

Also, non-gaming question... any idea how Japan looks at Warner Bros.' animated stuff (Looney Tunes, Cartoon Network, etc.)? I know Disney is near-massive over there, but what about Warner Bros.' stuff?

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve got a question for anybody that’s played Hades. Is the game the same basic genre as something like X-Men Legends, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Gauntlet Legends, and Diablo 3? I enjoyed all those games so I might give Hades a try. Zagreus is a pretty cool looking character and some people seem to think he’s got a shot for Smash.

Part of the reason why I ask is that I’m really interested in the new TMNT: Splintered Fate game coming out this week. I’ve watched a few reviews and they all say that the game appears heavily inspired by Hades. That’s why I’m partly curious if there’s something different about Hades that sets it apart from the games above. The first game I thought of when looking at Splintered Fate was X-Men Legends.

 

[Pupp135]

I decided to look at the franchise included in Smash. I wanted to compare the number of first party franchises with characters and the number of third party franchises with characters. There are 40 franchises with playable characters. There are 25 first party franchises and 15 third party franchises. As a bonus there are 9 first party franchises with stages but no playable characters.

First Party

1. Super Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. The Legend of Zelda
4. Metroid
5. Yoshi
6. Kirby
7. Star Fox
8. Pokemon
9. Earthbound
10. F-Zero
11. Ice Climber
12. Fire Emblem
13. Game & Watch
14. Kid Icarus
15. Wario
16. Pikmin
17. R.O.B.
18. Animal Crossing
19. Wii Fit
20. Punch Out!!
21. Mii
22. Xenoblade Chronicles
23. Duck Hunt
24. Splatoon
25. ARMS

Third Party

1. Metal Gear
2. Sonic the Hedgehog
3. Mega Man
4. Pac-Man
5. Street Fighter
6. Final Fantasy
7. Bayonetta
8. Castlevania
9. Persona
10. Dragon Quest
11. Banjo Kazooie
12. Fatal Fury
13. Minecraft
14. Tekken
15. Kingdom Hearts

First Party Franchises with No Playable Characters

1. Electroplankton
2. Pictochat
3. Balloon Fight
4. Nintendogs
5. Find Mii
6. Tomodacchi Life
7. Wrecking Crew
8. Pilotwings
9. Wii Sports

What do you think of this ratio of first party to third party content? I know there are more franchises included, but characters and stages are the ones with the most billing.

I think this a good ratio between Nintendo and third party franchises. In terms of what I expect next game, I think the base roster will favor Nintendo a little more because of third party negotiations, but it will go back to something close to Ultimate post DLC.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Final Fantasy VII esque reimagining (Incredible potential, but possibly risky given Chrono Trigger lacks the same safe numbers as FFVII & too many changes could alienate some fans)

I don't think it needs to be changed to the same extent as FF7R. But it deserves the same level of care and attention...and budget, as FF7R.

I mean, Persona 1 was known as Megami Ibunroku Persona in Japan, explicitly stating it was a Megami Tensei spinoff (Devil Survivor 1 had the same, Devil Summoner 1 was explicitly called Shin Megami Tensei). So definitely part of the same series originally, although of course they're considered separate now though.

Persona is part of the MegaTen franchise in the same way Final Fantasy Tactics if part of the Final Fantasy franchise. Or Trails in the Sky is part of the Dragon Slayer franchise.

Spinoff series, but all still the same franchise.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I’ve got a question for anybody that’s played Hades. Is the game the same basic genre as something like X-Men Legends, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Gauntlet Legends, and Diablo 3? I enjoyed all those games so I might give Hades a try. Zagreus is a pretty cool looking character and some people seem to think he’s got a shot for Smash.

Part of the reason why I ask is that I’m really interested in the new TMNT: Splintered Fate game coming out this week. I’ve watched a few reviews and they all say that the game appears heavily inspired by Hades. That’s why I’m partly curious if there’s something different about Hades that sets it apart from the games above. The first game I thought of when looking at Splintered Fate was X-Men Legends.

it’s like those games in the sense that it’s got an isometric camera and combat. I don’t have much experience with your examples so I can’t say how it compares, but I wholly recommend it. It’s fun and flashy and addictive in the “just one more run” way good roguelikes are.

Even if roguelikes aren’t your thing, Hades has won a lot of people over by having character progression and a narrative that both carry over between runs.