Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Arcanir]

Characters are never the focus of a Zelda game, the focus is usually the vast amount of weapons that allow you to get crafty with your puzzle-solving, and the big, sprawling kingdom of Hyrule and its dungeons that you can explore.

I couldn't disagree more.

As already touched on, a number of the games have the characters introduced as very central to the narrative, with their involvement and story arcs all becoming memorable and beloved. Fans love the story and/or characters like Skull Kid, Midna, and Ghirahim, and to this day you'll still see people remember them fondly and wish we could see more of them. Hell, that's part of the reason for Hyrule Warriors' success, people were ecstatic when Midna was first revealed and many latched on to the game for a chance to see long held favorites make it into the game and become playable for the first time.

The characters are a major part of Zelda, without their stories many games would be worst off for it and their presence is part of the reason why they're as beloved as they are.

 

[superprincess]

Majora's Mask

Twilight Princess

Skyward Sword

wat

these are literally the titles of the games

and some of these characters have remained very popular fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years later

yeah gameplay wise they're not the focus (though some kinda are, like Midna)... but neither are Zelda or Ganondorf, for the most part. Narrative/presence is what makes basically everyone other than Link notable.

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

They were all in Hyrule Warriors. Majora's Mask is literally a boss fight.

 

[Noipoi]

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

Hyrule Warriors for the Nintendo Wii U (2014)

 

[SPEN18]

Maybe it's not fair to throw Toon Zelda/Sheik in the faces of the other Zelda characters. Those would have very likely been late-development clone characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gonna be real. The "Zelda doesn't need more characters it's about exploring," is giving me the same vibes as "Metroid is about isolation, Samus should be alone on the roster."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

Basically, everything that Noi and Swamp said above regarding Majora's Mask and the others.

Fi also has more of a fanbase than you might think. It's not as big as Midna's, but she's still well-liked by many for her character development and her abilities that help Link throughout his journey, as well as for being part of the Master Sword's origin. I doubt she would've gotten referenceds in BotW and TotK if she wasn't remembered or if she didn't have a considerable amount of ans.

 

[Slime Scholar]

TBH while more Zelda characters would be cool, I would be more interested in seeing new movesets for the existing fighters. And I’m not just talking about Ganondorf.

But I feel this way about a lot of the older cast (the Mario Bros. come to mind). Link’s moveset has received only minor and gradual changes since 1999, and while there’s nothing wrong with that on its face, I want to be as excited and interested to play as him the way I would a newcomer.

Another thing that makes older fighters feel dated is that the design ethos has shifted over time. Newcomers have all these exclusive mechanics to make them stand out as much as possible. K.O meters, personas, RPG menus, desperation moves, building blocks, the list goes on. I want to see what the original 12 would look like if they were created today.

 

[Laniv]

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

Everyone seems to be talking about one-offs from Zelda games. Me…?

I want to see one-offs from Kirby become playable in Smash Bros.

Question, does Susie count as a one-off?

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?



Question, does Susie count as a one-off?

I think so, honestly. I actually would not mind her playable in Smash.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

Depends entirely on what Zelda gets up to and whenever the new Smash comes out

If a new big Zelda releases before the next Smash, conversation will probably shift to that game's new scrunkly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

TBH while more Zelda characters would be cool, I would be more interested in seeing new movesets for the existing fighters. And I’m not just talking about Ganondorf.

But I feel this way about a lot of the older cast (the Mario Bros. come to mind). Link’s moveset has received only minor and gradual changes since 1999, and while there’s nothing wrong with that on its face, I want to be as excited and interested to play as him the way I would a newcomer.

Another thing that makes older fighters feel dated is that the design ethos has shifted over time. Newcomers have all these exclusive mechanics to make them stand out as much as possible. K.O meters, personas, RPG menus, desperation moves, building blocks, the list goes on. I want to see what the original 12 would look like if they were created today.

I'm reminded a bit of how fairly straightforward the original X-Men (Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Marvel Girl) were with their powers vs the more elaborate and detailed mutants the series introduced down the line. The first five were all solid and enjoyed continued popularity, but it became tricky to make them as cool and exciting as later introductions.

I think this somewhat points out the possible inevitable disappointment to come regardless of what direction Smash goes to. There are many fans longing to make the initial fighters exciting/different again with unique concepts and those that prefer the design philosophy of them and generally find the gimmicks of more contemporary characters a bit exhausting. Smash Ultimate has maintained an admirable balance to both, but I wonder if the next entry is bound to give way to one path over the other.

 

[fogbadge]

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

that's where you're wrong they never stop talking about it. usually either that they hate it or that they love it but they clearly remember it

Gonna be real. The "Zelda doesn't need more characters it's about exploring," is giving me the same vibes as "Metroid is about isolation, Samus should be alone on the roster."

yeah it's like when people said we didn't need k.rool. well i'm not sure if they did say it but you get the idea

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

I wouldn't have thought so but it is possible.

Question, does Susie count as a one-off?

nah. she was in star allies

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

Is Rauru that popular in the Zelda fandom? Like, I think Fi is more popular than he is and she can be controversial.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Is she? In a franchise with, like, 7 entries, she's only been in 2 of them. And she doesn't really have anything to do with the main plot.

I will argue this till I die, on every single metric, in person online recognizably , she is number one and it’s not even close.

go to a con and show pictures of sol and Bridget, she will more than double whatever results sol gets.

bridget fans don’t play guilty gear, generally though, and she’s rather hated in game.

Either way I just don’t think sol is a good representative of the franchises, it’s character much more balanced across its character, you can make an argument for like 10 different characters easily, but bridget created a surge in the games popularity , if you were in the community at e time you would proabaly know that, a lot of people started playing for her.

her popularity isn’t newfound either,

she was alwasy the Japanese fan fave from accent core onwards, however that was largely due to her , past identity, as she was one of the first of the , stereotype to be in a modern ish game with x, and again her newfound popularity is due to her identity again, if yo I want to pretend that part of her doesn’t exist then yeah there’d probably be better characters, and she is as side character as she gets.

that’s why I said 90% Bridget 10% sin, though may, sol and ram all got a nonzero chance I guess.

ky is unlikely purple cause he’s sol’a number 2, if they want to put a main character in, it’s sol or sin, if they want to go with the large fan favoruite and overall most popular Bridgett and may would win.

Ky is also generic shot guy like ryu and Ken, so he would be very boring, like wow he has a fireball, a a tatsu , a reversal incredible never seen that in smash before.

 

[Pupp135]

In terms of Legend of Zelda‘s fighter representation, I think the current cast covers the essentials, and I find Sheik and Zelda fun to play as, and Ganondorf seems to be a popular character overall, but expanding the cast would also be cool to see with another fighter or two.

In terms of veterans, I think that the Brawl/For line-up is a good starting point as Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are the main trio, Toon Link
has been the more recurring Child Link in SSB, and a Child Link is important to Sakurai, and Sheik has been around since Melee.

Here are my ideas that I’m thinking of in terms of newcomers at the moment:

If we use something to promote Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom, Rauru, Sidon, and the Champions would be interesting choices that could highlight the series’s diverse cast and new levels of success with the Switch era.

Probably not the most ideal choice for some, but I’m open to having a second Ganon(dorf) with a completely new moveset kind of like Zero Suit Samus or Paper Mario if he joined. I’m confident that we’ll still have something close to the current Ganondorf iteration next game as movesets tend to not change drastically between games, but having a second Ganon(dorf) would give him a more unique feel that some fans want.

In terms of recurring non-triforce characters, Impa feels like the most probable one. Worst case scenario, she’d be a Sheik echo, but I think there‘s enough material to make her a distinct fighter.

Finally, we have the older popular one-offs in the forms of Midna and Skull Kid, and I assume that a large number of requests would be the primary driving factor for their inclusion.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I mean if current zelda is well represented then mario only needs:
Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser

Quick correction
Mario, Dr Mario, peach, tennis peach who is 100% unique and bowser who is a marth clone

Why would you even want more it’s just like Mario.

declone bowser? Nah, sword is bowser is a smash classic we can’t get rid of bowser with a sword despite the fact he’s never actually used a sword.

but we can give him one smash attack where he punches

 

[SPEN18]

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

yes, when he is revealed as a Smash newcomer in 2026

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So if we're getting a new game, do you think the theme will be team focused? I mean free for all will be in it, but like the new content? Like Duel Final Smashes for certain characters and fighters with cinematic FS will be replaced for something else if it's on team battle.

 

[dream1ng]

Aside from Midna there's really no indication as to how these characters would fight.

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

That's a completely different argument that concerns moveset potential.

Well, pre-Melee, there wasn't a whole lot that would indicate how Zelda or Sheik would fight.

Also, it hasn't stopped Skull Kid from being one of the most requested Zelda characters. And that started even before HW gave them all movesets. Regardless, unless you're suggesting these characters are infeasible, it's not really an issue. Sakurai and his team constantly create movesets for characters in unexpected ways or for fighters that people couldn't envision.

Between Rosalina and Bowser Jr, neither was implemented in the way people thought they'd be. Waluigi is the most popular first-party and people don't know how exactly he's going to be implemented.

These Zelda characters have other things which hold them back, but they can all certainly work as fighters.

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

I would imagine so, TotK is still going to be the most recent "big" Zelda, and presumably will dictate the majority of the new Zelda content in base.

 

[Louie G.]

Another thing that makes older fighters feel dated is that the design ethos has shifted over time. Newcomers have all these exclusive mechanics to make them stand out as much as possible. K.O meters, personas, RPG menus, desperation moves, building blocks, the list goes on. I want to see what the original 12 would look like if they were created today.

Honestly the most refreshing thing to me right now is a straightforward and effective character, without a big crazy gimmick. Someone who can just be organically distinct. There are many ways to innovate in more natural feeling ways and I really am not looking for Samus with limited missile quantity or full on TOTK Link or something.

You look at someone like K Rool or Incineroar and they were able to stand out without something overbearing like a meter, instead they unique passive traits or fulfilled lesser explored archetypes. Blunderbuss, Crown Boomerang, Alolan Whip, Revenge all take familiar concepts and do something we haven’t seen with them. That’s enough for me to feel like a new character is pulling their weight creatively. After the tenth meter and comeback mechanic it stops being unique, to be honest.

I agree that we could use some freshening up toward some of the old guard, the aforementioned characters still feel fresh and new, but I raise an eyebrow at the examples given here. Just not my preference and got a little exhausting toward the end.

 

[Borskaboska]

I've always thought that the characters introduced in 64 and melee were more supposed to represent character archetypes instead of the characters themselves. Like Mario's moveset mimicking the typical shoto tool kit or sheik representing the stereotypical ninja that all fighting game rosters need to have.

Something I've noticed that I've never seen anyone point out, Zelda's Din's Fire doesn't look anything at all like how that move works in OoT, but it does function a lot like how the Fireball spell does in D&D (creating an explosion within a certain radius around the caster). Zelda was designed around the idea of being the platonic magic user, so sakurai ended up pulling from other portrayals of wizards from rpg's and stuff.

Modern smash characters aren't really meant to represent archetypes like that anymore (mostly because they have all the major archetypes covered), so you don't get those types of weird design decisions for better or worse. Newer characters put a lot more effort into faithfully representing their actual games. That's why new characters have so many crazy gimmicks and meters.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I don't want Fi playable.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't want Fi playable.

Every 30 seconds she stops the match to remind the player of the controls.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fi playable? Oooh. That means we have 3 unique Master Swords on the field possible. :D

But yeah, she sounds like she could be actually pretty cool too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Every 30 seconds she stops the match to remind the player of the controls.

Thank you Fi, for telling me I forgot to turn tap jump off.

 

[Kirbeh]

I will argue this till I die, on every single metric, in person online recognizably , she is number one and it’s not even close.

go to a con and show pictures of sol and Bridget, she will more than double whatever results sol gets.

bridget fans don’t play guilty gear, generally though, and she’s rather hated in game.

How does this help her case exactly?

Either way I just don’t think sol is a good representative of the franchises, it’s character much more balanced across its character, you can make an argument for like 10 different characters easily, but bridget created a surge in the games popularity , if you were in the community at e time you would proabaly know that, a lot of people started playing for her.

Sure, the main character across 25+ years of the franchise is poor representation of said franchise...

And according to your own statement, Bridget fans are there for Bridget not for Guilty Gear. You're not really helping your own case here.

That said, yes, her inclusion brought some new blood into the scene, but like with any new* (as in DLC) character there's going to be a brief period where you see an influx of people playing the new character.

her popularity isn’t newfound either,

she was alwasy the Japanese fan fave from accent core onwards, however that was largely due to her , past identity, as she was one of the first of the , stereotype to be in a modern ish game with x, and again her newfound popularity is due to her identity again, if yo I want to pretend that part of her doesn’t exist then yeah there’d probably be better characters, and she is as side character as she gets.

She did always have a lot of fans JP side, but that doesn't equate to being the most popular character, nor is popularity the only factor that goes into selecting characters for Smash. Baiken has also always been quite popular, both in JP and the west. JP also love the Valentines, especially Elphelt. And even then, claiming that Sol/Ky aren't popular enough themselves is honestly dumbfounding. It seems a lot more like you are so laser focused on pushing Bridget that you're the one ignoring or trying to discredit all other factors. (While also confusingly fumbling your own support?)

that’s why I said 90% Bridget 10% sin, though may, sol and ram all got a nonzero chance I guess.

ky is unlikely purple cause he’s sol’a number 2, if they want to put a main character in, it’s sol or sin, if they want to go with the large fan favoruite and overall most popular Bridgett and may would win.

Ky is also generic shot guy like ryu and Ken, so he would be very boring, like wow he has a fireball, a a tatsu , a reversal incredible never seen that in smash before.

You might personally find Ky boring, but most GG fans would be pretty happy if we got a Sol/Ky combo. And if Bridget is your preference for a rep that's fine, but trying to claim definitively that she's the only choice that's worthwhile or makes sense is questionable at best and completely tone deaf at worst.

I don't want Fi playable.

But I do.

If Aeglisash works in Pokken, we can have Fi in Smash (also, Aegislash for Smash.)

Every 30 seconds she stops the match to remind the player of the controls.

They should give her a really long taunt like Thor in MvC3 where she just gives an actual gameplay tutorial for a whole minute.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just personally don't want a Guilty Gear character in general.

It would whelm me.

 

[Kirbeh]

I just personally don't want a Guilty Gear character in general.

It would whelm me.

under (whelmed) text

 

[Ivander]

Every 30 seconds she stops the match to remind the player of the controls.

I think my copy of Hyrule Warriors has a bug. Despite being playable, whenever she's on the field, she doesn't and hasn't done that for me a single time.

 

[Noipoi]

I think my copy of Hyrule Warriors has a bug. Despite being playable, whenever she's on the field, she doesn't and hasn't done that for me a single time.

Yeah that’s a glitch, man. Everyone knows the infamous “Fi interrupting” mechanic.

There are speedruns based around it.

 

[Speed Weed]

I just personally don't want a Guilty Gear character in general.

It would whelm me.

Okay, counterpoint: what if it's Robo-Ky

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay, counterpoint: what if it's Robo-Ky

I'd make an exception for Robo-Ky.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm not really sure how they'd make a Sol/Ky combo work in Smash, but that does sound pretty cool. I'm kind of hoping they use their original GG designs, as well as their designs from Xrd and Strive.

 

[Louie G.]

I think whoever said Bridget is the most popular Guilty Gear character is probably right, but I don’t think she would be made playable in Smash. Sensibly it would just be Sol, who is irrefutably the series protagonist.

Mind you I would love any number of Guilty Gear fighters, and I think it’s ripe for the picking if they wanted to go for an oddball choice instead. But like… Sol is already really popular in his own right, so why wouldn’t they? The precedent is well established in Smash and this would be an odd one to break that pattern with. Even if ArcSys is making gangbusters off the several dozen Bridget figures on the market.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think whoever said Bridget is the most popular Guilty Gear character is probably right, but I don’t think she would be made playable in Smash. Sensibly it would just be Sol, who is irrefutably the series protagonist.

Mind you I would love any number of Guilty Gear fighters, and I think it’s ripe for the picking if they wanted to go for an oddball choice instead. But like… Sol is already really popular in his own right, so why wouldn’t they? The precedent is well established in Smash and this would be an odd one to break that pattern with. Even if ArcSys is making gangbusters off the several dozen Bridget figures on the market.

I said it yesterday, but a strong case can be made for Baiken and is probably the strongest case for someone who isn't Sol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And I don't think many people remember Skyward Sword for Fi.

Wat? Aside from being "the motion control game", Skyward Sword is most known for Fi and her constant interruptions.

I'm curious, do you think Rauru is still going to be talked about in, say, two or three years?

My guess would be "no" but I still haven't gotten far enough in the game for him to really make an impact for me. Aside from his itty bitty legs. That will never not be funny.

bowser who is a marth clone

OK the alternate universe where there's 5 Marths and one of them is Bowser is absolutely hilarious.

Zelda was designed around the idea of being the platonic magic user

As opposed to Bayonetta, who is the romantic magic user.

I'm sorry I had to.