Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Borskaboska]

Even ignoring my pfp, I'm going to provide counterpoints in Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and Isabelle.

Also, Tom Nook feels like he's in his late 40s at the oldest

You look at duck hunt and tell me he hasn't been waiting years for the opportunity to crush his enemies.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even ignoring my pfp, I'm going to provide counterpoints in Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and Isabelle.

Also, Tom Nook feels like he's in his late 40s at the oldest

Eh, Duck Hunt had outright shooting gameplay. Not the best example.

But yeah, Tom Nook can easily work. He has tons of potential~

 

[Borskaboska]

I think it'd be funny if they added a generic animal character from AC before Nook or KK. Because they all share personality types, individual animal villagers barely get a chance to stand out. Kinda like how they did Piranha Plant.
I'd choose Bob. Imagine getting beat by a guy with that face.

 

[fogbadge]

I think it'd be funny if they added a generic animal character from AC before Nook or KK. Because they all share personality types, individual animal villagers barely get a chance to stand out. Kinda like how they did Piranha Plant.
I'd choose Bob. Imagine getting beat by a guy with that face.

the correct answer is Simon or Stitches. However also acceptable are Vesta, Roscoe and Aurora. Maybe Chief

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

#BizkitMainForLife.

 

[Noipoi]

#BizkitMainForLife.

I prefer my Bizkit’s limp

 

[Sucumbio]

Also, Tom Nook feels like he's in his late 40s at the oldest

Not me digging out my sweater...

What, Halloween is never too far away!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not me digging out my sweater...

What, Halloween is never too far away!

I’ll be 41 this Halloween. Maybe I need a sweater-based costume…

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What, Halloween is never too far away!

And that means Christmas is just around the corner!

 

[superprincess]

1. Someone asks what people want/expect from the next Smash. Reasonable given that it's the thread topic.
2. I say I want/expect EiH2, because it is what I want/expect.
3. Someone feels the needs to write an essay about why that can't/won't/shouldn't happen. And says that fans/casuals/some other demographic they don't speak for wouldn't want that. Rather than just saying what they want/expect instead.
4. Me and other EiH2/Ulimate Deluxe supporters get annoyed at being condescended to and argues back.
5. Someone comments about how they're tired of us repeating our dissenting opinions, and should take them elsewhere, even as they continuously repeat their own, no more valid opinion.
6. Time passes. Then back to step one.

The self-importance?

Ultimate Deluxe wouldn't definitely sell worse than Smash 6.

Ultimate will probably be playable on Switch 2 (backwards compatibility is basically confirmed) so yes, a port would definitely sell worse than a new game.

Honestly I think a new Smash game is preferable. We need to move on from Ultimate. I've come to accept that the roster will be massively trimmed down. That's just reality.

I'm not an Ultimate Deluxe supporter but "massively trimmed down" is a huge overstatement. Nintendo would be shooting themself in the foot.

if only we talked about toad as much as we talk about ports

He's back in Mario Party. Smash is next, surely!

Sure. But by that same token, if you go "Smash Ultimate, now with Master Chief and Waluigi!" they'd be just as down. They're not going to turn their noses up at a better running version of Smash with more characters because its a rerelease.

Money doesn't come easy! Most people couldn't justify spending 70 bucks on a product they basically already own, especially if they can play the one they own on the new console. Ultimate Deluxe would automatically turn away the buyers of the original game... which is a lot of people.

The only thing that makes a company indie is it's size.

Untrue. Indie stands for "independent", not "small in size" or "not rich enough".

 

[Noipoi]

I'm not an Ultimate Deluxe supporter but "massively trimmed down" is a huge overstatement. Nintendo would be shooting themself in the foot.

We are a fandom of extremes. Either the next game has every single character again + 50 more, or Nintendo is currently in the process of finding the infinity stones because they’re snapping half the roster away.

There’s no way the next Smash could just get rid of a few characters here and there, that’d be ridiculous.

 

[RileyXY1]

Untrue. Indie stands for "independent", not "small in size" or "not rich enough".

You're right. The term "indie" refers to self-published games, where there is no separate publisher and instead the developer publishes their own game.

 

[superprincess]

We are a fandom of extremes. Either the next game has every single character again + 50 more, or Nintendo is currently in the process of finding the infinity stones because they’re snapping half the roster away.

There’s no way the next Smash could just get rid of a few characters here and there, that’d be ridiculous.

I still remember during my first month or so on this site, I said that I wouldn't want a port of Ultimate and someone wrote a full on essay saying I was "in the reboot camp" and literally going on about how a port would be more appealing than "what you guys" want. Does it ever strike people that port and reboot aren't the only options there are, and that being anti-port and pro-reboot isn't mutually exclusive?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How is WayForward not also a video game publisher?

According to Wikipedia, it literally is one.

Untrue. Indie stands for "independent", not "small in size" or "not rich enough".

You're right. The term "indie" refers to self-published games, where there is no separate publisher and instead the developer publishes their own game.

Eh, under this definition, all in-house Nintendo games are indie games, which is probably not what people mean when using the term. There doesn't seem to be a formal definition, but given trends in the definitions for other forms of media, I'd say its something like "a game that is either created and published by a team without any affiliation with a major game publisher (I.E. Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft)."

Though under this definition Ori and the Blind Forest is not an indie game so I dunno.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still remember during my first month or so on this site, I said that I wouldn't want a port of Ultimate and someone wrote a full on essay saying I was "in the reboot camp" and literally going on about how a port would be more appealing than "what you guys" want. Does it ever strike people that port and reboot aren't the only options there are, and that being anti-port and pro-reboot isn't mutually exclusive?

This. They're not even remotely the same thing.

Albeit, I'm one who doesn't like either case, but still. One difference though is a port(especially of Ultimate, not so bad for Brawl or 4) is actually a problem with licensing, whereas a full-out reboot is actually workable because it's simply just a new game in the series. At worst it could be treated like a more side game(due to the alienating factor of movesets severely being different), unless it's more of a smaller roster, but not changing the moves that much(like generally the games go for).

But anyway, for some reason, people try to correlate stuff as some kind of... automatic thing despite them neither making the argument nor is it clearly their current stance. Things change.

I used to be an anti-Isabelle(but part of it was I really loved her interpretation as an AT since it fit her super well), but once I learned how she was in Amiibo Festival, my mind changed. Only thing I never thought was that she was a hard shoe-in, just extremely likely. And that's just one example of how people change their mind. But you get the idea.

And yes, I love how she is portrayed in Smash. It just sucks she's also not a very good character competitive-wise. She's a tad higher than Villager, though having her own Command Grab that they don't may help. I haven't read much into the exact reasoning. I do find it hilarious despite all this her Fishing Rod broke the game at one point. XD It gets more funny when you realize her character number is 68, but her rank is 69. You ain't going to see this very often. (I like Math, so the jokes easily amuse me).

-------------------

But off of that tangent anyway, I would also find an Animal Villager interesting. Especially with them being identical regardless, so you could get something of a Bowser Jr. situation~

 

[dream1ng]

One of the problems is that there are many variations semantically which aren't as similar as they seem. Sometimes people appeal to extremes for the opposing side, choosing the worst interpretation.

There's a reboot, and then there's rebuilding. The former, to me, implies taking Smash in a new direction, presumably with a much smaller or very different roster - which I think if it happens, will happen concurrently as a spin-off to Smash, not replacing it.

The term I like to use is rebuilding, though it too is imperfect. Because starting over/from square one or something can lead people to infer a complete discarding of the existing data. But Smash games don't do that either, they just don't basically keep going like Ultimate did with Smash 4. I think they will use the data for reference and other initial placeholder-type functions, but will essentially rebuild things, like they did prior to Ultimate. There will be some new hook(s), but taking Smash in a totally new direction is too drastic for a sequel.

But even on the other side, I think Ultimate Deluxe is generally envisioned as a port like MK8D. Where it's clearly the same game, just with more stuff, and maybe some tweaks here and there. But in theory, they could do what they did with Smash 4 and Ultimate again.

They could change the aesthetic, alter the mechanics, and rebuild around the roster, but keep all that same data. Change enough that it can be a new game. That would solve the problem of ports not selling as well as new titles. That would also enable them to hold content to bring back as DLC. Shady as that would be, their hands might be tied regarding third-parties adamant on getting back-end cut on their character. Given with a port, the expectation would be no cuts, and everyone, including third-party DLC, in base. But that is easier said than done, from a negotiation perspective. Which is another reason I don't think an Ultimate Deluxe to be in the cards. With this, they don't have to aim for EiH, but can ultimately still retain most, if not all characters, eventually.

However, that doesn't address the technical side, where directly using Smash 4's data will become more inefficient and more costly as time goes on, and eventually it won't make financial sense to not start over. These games are now created with a multi-year roadmap of content rollout, so the fact that they may end up approaching 2030 while still using framework from 2012 would be a red flag. It also assumes that Smash will have the budget to license both all the existing third-parties, and all the new ones a full sequel would entail; of which, presumably, there will be many. Smash has a big budget, but that's still quite a pricetag.

I don't think that's what people are suggesting with an Ultimate Deluxe. I think they're suggesting a more straightforward deluxe port with no cuts. However, I think it's likelier than an Ultimate Deluxe. Though less likely than rebuilding the roster, because that's inevitable. It's just a question of now or later.

 

[TheQuester]

Jesus Christ can we stop with the deluxe vs smash 6 talk for a bit, it's been going on for pages on circles, lets put it on a rest.

 

[dream1ng]

Jesus Christ can we stop with the deluxe vs smash 6 talk for a bit, it's been going on for pages on circles, lets put it on a rest.

Ok, what would you like to talk about?

 

[Super Devon]

Okay so about "Smash Ultimate Deluxe"
While I wouldn't be against the idea of something like that happening, I'd vastly prefer a new entry in the series, we've been playing this game for 5 and a half years, and I, as well as I think many others, have gotten tired of Smash Ultimate and crave for something new and fresh.

Also, I'm not fond of the idea of a reboot, because reboot entails something more than simply cutting the roster in half and revamping the characters, a reboot also imply that the estabilished lore of the game that's been going on since the series started would also be reset, which I really wouldn't like.

Point is, I'd rather have Smash 6.

 

[TheQuester]

Ok, what would you like to talk about?

Anything else that doesnt involve Smash 6 vs Deluxe drama, it just getting tiring and all it does it's cause bad vives , let's move on.

 

[Noipoi]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

I want Falinks marching across the stage as a slow but powerful hazard. Partway through, they buff themselves with No Retreat and become a fast and powerful hazard.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

Smash Battles on Motorcycles!

...Or at least a funny mini-game added. Really, Smash could use some that aren't just "normal gameplay". Other fighting games do find a way to really make it stand out. Puzzle Fighters, general Kart racing, etc.

 

[superprincess]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

Didn't play any of these games but I did look at some Gen 9 Pokémon and a creature named Tinkaton stuck out to me the most. I like things that are creepy and cute at the same time.

Its proportions wouldn't lend themselves to a very fun fighter in my opinion (small size with a huge disjoint, probably bad frame data and unclear animation readability due to the huge hammer) buuut I could see it being a fun summon! Its attacks are self explanatory.

 

[Shinuto]

Didn't play any of these games but I did look at some Gen 9 Pokémon and a creature named Tinkaton stuck out to me the most. I like things that are creepy and cute at the same time.

Its proportions wouldn't lend themselves to a very fun fighter in my opinion (small size with a huge disjoint, probably bad frame data and unclear animation readability due to the huge hammer) buuut I could see it being a fun summon! Its attacks are self explanatory.

What? Big hammer swings equal "Unclear animation readability"? If anything it'd make for much greater readability.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tinkaton would be a fun "regular" version of Arceus, using Smack Down on any fighters that jump within its range.

 

[Noipoi]

Tinkaton would be a fun "regular" version of Arceus, using Smack Down on any fighters that jump within its range.

And specifically targeting Falco whenever he’s present

 

[TheQuester]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

My guess:
Gen 8:
Dragapult
Falinks
Sir Fetche'd

Gen 9:
No idea tbh, maybe Glimmora?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And specifically targeting Falco whenever he’s present

Falcon also runs away.

He knows when to fold 'em. But so does Paper Mario, but to be fair, he is shown to be very brave. It's just the player that runs away.

 

[Noipoi]

Gen 9:
No idea tbh, maybe Glimmora?

Any of the Paradox Pokemon would be a good bet

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But so does Paper Mario, but to be fair, he is shown to be very brave.

I heard he plays the banjo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I heard he plays the banjo.

As well as a Hero on the side.

 

[osby]

Pokémon Sword and Shield, Legends Arceus, and Scarlet and Violet have all released in the time since the last Smash game. Bringing with them over 200 new Pokemon.

Which ones would make cool Pokeball summons in the next game?

I want Alcremie to take over Isabelle's old AT role and just fling around healing desserts.

Also, Cramorant summon that gulps and spits your fighter but only if you're playing as Pikachu.

 

[Wonder Smash]

And we're back to Pokemon again. lol

Personally, I'd love to see Castlevania, Dragon Quest, and Fire Emblem have some NES/Famicom retro tracks. Fire Emblem is long overdue and I'm surprised Castlevania didn't have any from the first game. Not even the main theme.

 

[Noipoi]

And we're back to Pokemon again. lol

It's my mission in life to constantly bring things back to Pokemon

 

[osby]

And we're back to Pokemon again. lol

At least, it's not something we usually talk about rather than the 80 millionth "cuts vs Ultimate Deluxe" debate.

 

[Wonder Smash]

At least, it's not something we usually talk about rather than the 80 millionth "cuts vs Ultimate Deluxe" debate.

Actually...Pokemon probably gets talked about more than that. lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ultimate Deluxe would automatically turn away the buyers of the original game... which is a lot of people.

Pure speculation based on you attributing your personal option to a group of people you don't represent.

Untrue. Indie stands for "independent", not "small in size" or "not rich enough".

"Independent" of what though? Of publishers? WayForward IS a publisher.

If you don't go by size, then the so-called "definition" of indie could be applied to companies like Capcom or SquareEnix just as easily as it could Toby Fox. Which would make the term completely useless.

According to Wikipedia, it literally is one.

According to Wikipedia, "An indie game, short for independent video game, is a video game created by individuals or smaller development teams without the financial and technical support of a large game publisher".

But how do you define a "large" game publisher? By size and money obviously. But where is the cutoff? Is 10 people still indie? Is 50? 100? 500?

It doesn't say. So how big does WayForward have to get before people stop calling it indie? They employ over 100 people at this point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I want Alcremie to take over Isabelle's old AT role and just fling around healing desserts.

Also, Cramorant summon that gulps and spits your fighter but only if you're playing as Pikachu.

I miss that role too.

Then again, unless there's a good one to fill the AT role specifically, I actually would prefer having the AT/Pokeball summon there along with the playable character. It can also depend if models/sprites are available too. Like the Sprite version of Charizard would be hilarious as a Pokeball, but Isabelle doesn't have some kind of low-res sprite or model to actually use for that kind of purpose. Though I imagine she'll still have quite a nice new model when she returns(but her old model is not that outdated, heh).

I just like the fact that the game doesn't take itself seriously this way. Just like we have two separated Toon Links(albeit, only technically. The trophies do state that Toon Link's games are WW, PH, and ST respectively, so).

 

[Borskaboska]

I'm personally a fan of eldagoss. I like babushka type characters. Honestly my pick for if a Sw/Sh pokemon had to get in as a playable character (im not really a fan of any of them).
Wooloo would be funny if it just rolled around the stage and could be knocked around by attacks.
Appleton would walk around dropping food items.
Stonjerner is like Alolan Egsecutor but you can stand on it.
Zacian needs to be given yet another opportunity to outshine Zamazenta.
Nacli as a throwable item.
Clodsire.
Wigglet burrows into the stage and attacks nearby opponents.
I feel like you should have at least one paradox mon, I'd go with Brute Bonnet. It'd give people who get too close the mushroom affect.
Goldhengo seems important as pokemon 1000. They could bring back the gold effect from the NSMB2 stage.
Ogerpon is cute.