Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Amornal1]

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Yeah, i doubt it

 

[Oracle Link]

Btw i dont think this character makes it into smash period but she could be fun:

Edna from well Edna bricht aus! (or Edna and harvey the breakout for you filthy non germans)
I think her being mentally ill and the game having some messed up stuff could mean shes even more imposssible!
(than again Masked Man is in Smash)
But her outfit is also an issue considering cero! (i mean shes wearing regular underwear but still) Her outfit is a hospital robe BTW!
Also obscure!

But anyways why would she be fun?
1. The Moveset she picks up a lot of fun stuff and uses it to cause property damage (or just solve Puzzles)
2. She has a fun Bunny called harvey that talks (but really quiet so thats why no one else hears him)
3. The Stage Dr. Marcels Clinic is a pretty place especially the Orange sky!
4. The Music Poki did a banger job with the soundtrack especially the vocal Tracks! For example NAdel und faden (needle and stitches) from edna 2
5. Her Final Smash could be really unique (i have two cool ideas)
6. Also The Voices of edna and harvey are amazing (well in german atleast)

Yeah but still the developers are now bankrott because they made the gollum game which was to big for them Well sad!

But this game is really good i would check it out! (personal suggestion play with english subtitles and german voices i think theyre better)

 

[dream1ng]

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Nope.

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[ScrubReborn]

The five most likely games to get a newcomer in the next Smash.

1. Five Nights at Freddy’s
2. Five Nights at Freddy’s
3. Five Nights at Freddy’s
4. Five Nights at Freddy’s
5. Five Nights at Freddy’s

I know you're memeing but tbh I can unironically see like a Freddy Fazbear Mii happening. (Even tho Purple Guy would be better).

There's 100% gonna be a roster cutdown from Ultimate, but it does beg the question here, is there going to be a hard reboot or a soft one / some continuation?

IDK what you're thinking of when you say "hard reboot" but given what most people seem to treat a "hard reboot" as, I doubt it, we're not going back to a Melee sized roster lol.

I predict Sakurai and the Smash Team are gonna try to bring back as many characters as they can in Smash 6, but also with the full expectation that they won't get a EIH2 and whatever veterans they aren't able to include/finish by the time development's done just... aren't in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know you're memeing but tbh I can unironically see like a Freddy Fazbear Mii happening. (Even tho Purple Guy would be better).

The mental image of a Mii wearing a blocky purple mask with a derpy face on it and a blocky purple bodysuit while wielding a blocky purple object that looks like a phone but is probably supposed to be a hand crank is absolutely hilarious and now I really want this to happen, even knowing all of the unfunny "Man Behind the Slaughter" meme spam it would attract.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

Why are those four most likely?

Bomberman and Monster Hunter being given representation as assist trophies as the very few 3rd parties without playable characters plus Bomberman’s mii costumes and Monster Hunter’s Boss stage as well. Eggman just because I think Sonic is going to get a 2nd character and I think he gets in over Tails. Chun-Li just being the face of women in fighting games.

So guys, three questions. Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

I think Bomberman, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid, Zero, and Knuckles/Shadow all have a really good shot at being upgraded to playable.

 

[BritishGuy54]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

 

[Perkilator]

I’ve been thinking about how MK8D’s Ninja Hideaway would make for a banger Smash stage, what with all of the platforms and the propellers that blow gusts of wind that serve as that course’s obstacles.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Pyoro's back

 

[fogbadge]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

i dunno. B&K are supposedly easier to licence than steve and nintendo keep throwing money at bayo so i wouldn't count them out

 

[AreJay25]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

I struggle to see a world where Bayo gets cut. If Sonic comes back then I don't know why she wouldn't either, she's the closest you can get to a Nintendo character that they don't actually own and I can't imagine it's too difficult to get the rights to her.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Pyoro's back

Nindai doko…

Nindai seems to translate to Nintendo from Japanese to English. And doko seems to mean ‘where’. So perhaps an announcement was slated for today, but didn’t end up happening.

 

[Louie G.]

I’ve never really heard a convincing reason why Konami wouldn’t be involved next game, I particularly can’t see Simon getting cut. They allowed them to grab so much content for base game and have been spoken with as recently as earlier this year for the Power Pros spirit.

I’ve kinda given up trying to crack the code for third parties next (base) game, so my exercise has been moreso snipping down to the bare minimum and seeing what I’m comfortable with. Lately I’ve been satisfied with - mind you, minimally - these six.



I think we could probably see more than this, and I’m not certain if Hero or Cloud take precedent in the end, but this way several of the bare essentials are accounted for and a couple significant newcomers from Ultimate are maintained. As well as each “major” Japanese partner.

For what it’s worth, I’m not convinced Microsoft won’t just be playing ball out the gate or that SNK wouldn’t be one of the easiest guys to hit up again. Or that Bayonetta won’t come back, in general. This is just an exercise to prepare me for how far we could go before I start to get upset or it no longer makes sense… I think I‘m more lenient with this than most.

 

[Opossum]

Nindai doko…

Nindai seems to translate to Nintendo from Japanese to English. And doko seems to mean ‘where’. So perhaps an announcement was slated for today, but didn’t end up happening.

Nindai is specifically Nintendo Direct.

So pyoro is just asking where the Direct is lol.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

3rd parties I assume will be back as base game are:

 

[Will]

Why would you cut Ken, the echo fighter, if you bring back Ryu?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why would you cut Ken, the echo fighter, if you bring back Ryu?

Devs don't have unlimited resources, and he's the echo that requires the most work.

 

[Louie G.]

Why would you cut Ken, the echo fighter, if you bring back Ryu?

I'd rather not cut Ken, but I can think of a couple reasons.

Ken is decidedly not a traditional echo fighter. He has plenty of new animations and some fundamentally different attacks, he sits somewhere underneath semiclone status but is referred to as an echo fighter for legacy reasons. Even if this wasn't the case, I think people maybe take for granted the amount of time it probably still takes to implement even a straight up clone. But nonetheless, Ken is presumably more resource heavy than any of them.

The other reason is perhaps if they wanted to add Chun-Li... just for example, resources would be set aside more for the unique character and Ken might sit somewhere on the bubble if they don't want to fully commit to giving Street Fighter a whole three characters. Personally I think it would be justified, but just spitballing here. I could see Ken taking a lesser priority under this premise.

...That said, I think cutting Richter while keeping Simon is less justifiable. That's a character who is barely any different than their counterpart, and was explicitly developed to borrow from one another. So I'm sure if Castlevania returns, we'll probably still see both in some capacity.

 

[Will]

Devs don't have unlimited resources, and he's the echo that requires the most work.

So? He’s still an echo fighter and needs much less work than a regular fighter.

 

[Opossum]

So? He’s still an echo fighter and needs much less work than a regular fighter.

Right, but if you prioritize being able to bring back 55 veterans and Ken is sitting pretty in the mid-seventies in priority, at that point it doesn't really matter how much less work he takes. Cuts will happen regardless.

 

[Will]

Right, but if you prioritize being able to bring back 55 veterans and Ken is sitting pretty in the mid-seventies in priority, at that point it doesn't really matter how much less work he takes. Cuts will happen regardless.

That sounds more like Ryu’s problem than it is Ken’s. You take out only Ken, you’re just telling me him and a new rep are in DLC Pass 1.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Let's talk about the chances of Moorhunn/Crazy Chicken in Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Let's talk about the chances of Moorhunn/Crazy Chicken in Smash.

He'd be better than Alfred Chicken at least:

https://soundcloud.com/aro4teen%2Falfred-chicken-nes-phoneline-message

 

[HyperSomari64]

He'd be better than Afred Chicken at least:

https://soundcloud.com/aro4teen%2Falfred-chicken-nes-phoneline-message

But Moorhunn is not a Gaming Icon (at least outside of Europe), unlike the true avian: Mort the Chicken.

 

[Louie G.]

That sounds more like Ryu’s problem than it is Ken’s. You take out only Ken, you’re just telling me him and a new rep are in DLC Pass 1.

How is it Ryu's problem? Was is Fox and Ness' problem when Wolf and Lucas didn't come back in Smash 4? Or Roy and Dr. Mario in Brawl? All of those source characters were high priority returnees, and their derivatives were lower priority and missed the boat. This is a pretty common practice in Smash that will likely repeat itself.

I think echo fighters have given people this very strange idea of these characters being effective copy-paste jobs. Some of them kinda are... like Richter. Others like Daisy or Dark Samus are identical in practice, but have brand new animations and expressions. And then you have Ken, who truly shouldn't count as an echo fighter in the first place. There's a fairly vast range here that I don't think we give enough attention. It's very plausible that we lose a handful of echo fighters, as we've lost clones and low priority characters in the past despite their relative ease of development.

So I think this is a flawed mindset. Ryu has been in Smash without Ken before, after all. I don't see why it can't happen again without some promise of more content later (especially since, in my opinion, we absolutely will get new Street Fighter content but it will be in base game).

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

I feel like Konami pretty evidently freely hands out its IPs for pretty much anything these days. There have been like 10 indie game Castlevania crossovers in the past year and Metal Gear has been tossed around a bunch as well, alongside some Contra crossovers. Given that and that Snake and Simon both got into Ultimate on the basis of being high in the ballot, especially Snake, I can't see both getting cut. I would assume that if one were to stick around, it would be Snake.

 

[Garteam]

The big thing that I think will save Ken is the fact that a lot of the heavy lifting regarding his inclusion is done. Unless Ryu gets major reworks, all of the additional animations that are needed to convert Ryu's Smash moveset to represent Ken are complete. All that's necessary is actually putting it together in a functional and balanced moveset and to create a new model. It's not no work by any means, but I don't know why people are acting like it's effectively having to create a new character.

There's also the matter of him being one of the largest and most recognizable faces in a genre that Sakurai is a massive fan of, which may incentivize Sakurai to put in whatever resources are necessary to make Ken relative to the other echoes.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but I don't know why people are acting like it's effectively having to create a new character.

I know it isn't, Ken's workload is more comparable to Dr. Mario. But at the same time, we've had a Smash where Dr. Mario was cut.

 

[Opossum]

I know it isn't, Ken's workload is more comparable to Dr. Mario. But at the same time, we've had a Smash where Dr. Mario was cut.

And on a significantly smaller roster, no less.

 

[Garteam]

I know it isn't, Ken's workload is more comparable to Dr. Mario. But at the same time, we've had a Smash where Dr. Mario was cut.

I don't know how analogous this is, though. Dr. Mario was during the jump from Melee to Brawl, where the clones that return effectively received new movesets from the ground up. Ken is also a lot more of an important and relevant character to both his series and the industry as a whole than Doc, who is just a character already on the roster in a costume.

Dr. Mario being the first Melee veteran to return based solely on how easy he was to implement in Smash for 3DS/Wii U after the model was made actually shows how little labour bringing Ken back would take, assuming their workloads are actually equal.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

I have a hard time seeing Bayo getting cut considering Nintendo literally funded Bayonetta 2 and 3 and Banjo being easier to license than Steve (plus I doubt Microsoft is THAT allergic to money) as others have said. SEGA also owns Atlus, and SEGA is presumably pretty easy to play ball with considering Sonic.

Not to mention Sora is literally the most requested character ever in Smash's history according to the Ballot and Disney was pretty on board with it, and I could easily see Square doing an FF7 pack thing where you get Cloud and Sephiroth so they can get a little more out of it.

Basically what I'm saying is speculation this time around is really dang hard because cuts are very likely (pretty much inevitable since Sakurai said we weren't doing Everyone is Here again for a while I think) and every character has something going for them except for like Pichu and Young Link (and this is from someone who loves that Pichu came back lol).

 

[ninjahmos]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

Koei Tecmo and/or Taito

 

[Opossum]

Basically what I'm saying is speculation this time around is really dang hard because cuts are very likely (pretty much inevitable since Sakurai said we weren't doing Everyone is Here again for a while I think) and every character has something going for them except for like Pichu and Young Link (and this is from someone who loves that Pichu came back lol).

This is basically what it all comes back to lol. Most people agree there will be a significant amount of cuts (Ultimate base game included 69 numbered fighters [only six of which were newcomers] plus seven echo fighters for a total of 76 characters, and the game was nowhere near feature complete at launch...now there are 89 veterans to bring back without newcomers), but also don't want to say that any characters beyond Pichu and Young Link are at significant risk. It's paradoxical.

For better or for worse, people need to be prepared to lose quite a few characters. Characters you think are safe aren't as safe as you think they are. Characters you think are lower priority may indeed edge out those who you think should be higher priority. Some clones will stay because they're easier. Others will also be cut because they're derivative. Both can, and probably will, be true. Some unique and important characters will leave. Some that people think are grandfathered in will leave. Some third parties will stay, and some will be cut, even if they're from the same company or seemingly have everything in the world going for them.

People can hope for the best, but it's also good to not build too strong of a shield around the potential reality of the situation: that there will be significant cuts. Like, 20+, potentially. And some characters need to fill out that 20+, and some will be characters you like. Because if people pretend that that won't happen, it's only going to hurt more down the line when it does, indeed, happen, misconstrued "precedent" be damned.

The best advice is to be prepared to lose the characters you love, while maintaining hope that you won't need to. Because repeating that Everyone is Here Forever doesn't make it any less outlandish.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

In terms of third parties, I’m playing it safe. This is what I’m expecting.

Base roster:
DLC (re)additions:

Cuts:

Swap Terry for Banjo, Swap Kazuya for Bayo, and maybe leave Simon and yeah, a solid lineup for Third-Party Vets

So? He’s still an echo fighter and needs much less work than a regular fighter.

less work is still work. Why not dedicate the extra time for new echos or to fine-tune another fighter? Chun-li

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is basically what it all comes back to lol. Most people agree there will be a significant amount of cuts (Ultimate base game included 69 numbered fighters [only six of which were newcomers] plus seven echo fighters for a total of 76 characters, and the game was nowhere near feature complete at launch...now there are 89 veterans to bring back without newcomers), but also don't want to say that any characters beyond Pichu and Young Link are at significant risk. It's paradoxical.

Quite frankly, when people want to act like the next game will be Everyone But Pichu and Young Link Is Here, and not pay attention to the fact that base game newcomer selections leave more room for first-parties, especially ones that aren't super recent...it kind of feels like Schrödinger's FP3 Discussion.

 

[Garteam]

Chun-Li and Ken will not affect each other's inclusion in the same way that Robin and Lucina didn't effect each other's inclusion. One is a unique newcomer that would require completely animations and a significant period of development time, the other is an echo veteran who has had his animations and coding already completed and he can be added on at the last minute. Beyond both being Street Fighter characters, they're swimming in completely different lanes and have two different entry points to the roster.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

the other is an echo veteran who has had his animations and coding already completed and he can be added on at the last minute.

Which could be Dark Samus, Chrom or Daisy etc. Echo Fighters presently take less time to implement than Ken or even dedicated to a new echo like Octolings or Shadow. That reasoning could apply any echo fighter, not necessarily Ken.

Dr. Mario, Wolf, Roy and Mewtwo were also clone veterans that relatively easy to implement but still got the chopping board. In fact, Historically, The characters usually cut from Smash are the leftover clones to make new characters in the same series. Mewtwo for Lucario, Dr.Mario for Wario, Roy for Ike etc

Cutting Ken for Chun-Li whilst using spare time and resources that could be for Ken for another fighter is definitely plausible and has happened before.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Some of this is a bit misleading;

Daisy is not a copy-paste job. She was given multiple new animations and work. Her bare difference is some hurtbox differences(which are barely there, so no, you won't deal with it in almost any battle). Richter and Dark Samus outright have different elements, which means they don't play identically, but it does apply to Spirits/Items moreso. It's just another case where the differences are useless in most situations. A lot of this is forgetting how Richter and Dark Samus are pretty much going to play the same due to competitive play not having certain stuff. That makes sense.

But that doesn't change they are actually different, despite being barely there.

Anyway, Ken is as safe as Ryu is. His work is mostly done. It's just a matter of balancing.

Frankly, we're very unlikely to see any Echo cut if the original is still there. If the original isn't there, the Echo is extremely unlikely to stay.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You know, this talk of Echoes has me wondering...

Since they were given a specific label in Ultimate, do you guys think there's a chance for Echoes to become their own thing over time like traditional clones/semi-clones we've seen in the past? I know Ken has some differences from Ryu obviously, but giving them a specific official label instead of fan terms to refer to Melee's clones (who were obviously not labeled as Echoes in Ultimate) or semi-clones like Falco makes me wonder.

 

[Greenhorne Ethan]

Going back to Shovel Knight, while I would still really like him to be playable, I think it's possible that Undertale/Deltarune is the new obvious choice for an indie series to go all out with, not just for the staying power it has had in general but with how much the Sans costume blew up.