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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

CannonStreak

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You know, Mewtwo was added in Melee after the time of Generation I, which Smash 64 would have Gen I Pokemon by the time. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, not counting Pokemon Trainer, were added in Brawl. There have not been any new Gen I Pokemon since then, I believe, but...

My point is, while this might not have to do with the topic; I just want to say that as big as Gen I was, and still is for Pokemon, I believe they could add more than one Pokemon from different generations if they can add Pokemon from Gen I in later games in the Smash Bros. series over time.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Incineroar got in a movie.

Lycanroc and Mimikyu got in zero movies.

Are you sure you want to argue they were promoted more?

Like they were promoted a lot, but.... More?
Actually, Midnight Lycanroc was in the same movie as Incineroar; owned by the same Trainer, no less.

But it's not the version people hyped up.
 
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SPEN18

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Deoxys was pretty popular. Had a movie around when Brawl might've been being chosen had it happened a little earlier. But who knows.

Though there's the possibility we might've gotten Plusle and Minun. Unless that's been conclusively debunked.
I somewhat hesitate to think of them going for someone exclusive to Mystery Gift, especially back then when Mystery Gift was much harder to get access to. Forgot Plusle & Minun were in that movie, too. Of course picking based off the movies would be very timing-dependent as well, so if we're talking about shifting the timing then that could be beneficial or detrimental to the likes of Deoxys or P&M. But yeah it's all hypothetical, anyway.

What I can say about Plusle & Minun, though, is that if they really were planned at one point, then man, Sakurai was really, really bent on pushing the duo/transformation gimmick stuff.
 

ninjahmos

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If Phantasy Star Online ever got into Smash, they’d not only have to include music from the PSO series, especially The Whole New World, but also music from the original Phantasy Star series. And maybe the songs from Burning Rangers.
They'd also have to include music from Phantasy Star Universe, especially Save This World.

 

dream1ng

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You know, Mewtwo was added in Melee after the time of Generation I, which Smash 64 would have Gen I Pokemon by the time. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, not counting Pokemon Trainer, were added in Brawl. There have not been any new Gen I Pokemon since then, I believe, but...

My point is, while this might not have to do with the topic; I just want to say that as big as Gen I was, and still is for Pokemon, I believe they could add more than one Pokemon from different generations if they can add Pokemon from Gen I in later games in the Smash Bros. series over time.
I don't think anyone disagrees that they can, it's just with most of the staples already present, and with the first of the two spots designated for promotion, it seems less likely they'd go back for some other Pokemon character (imo especially from Gens 2, 4, 6 and 7). Especially since conditioning the fanbase to only really anticipate promotional additions has resulted in no older Pokemon accruing longstanding, significant Smash demand.

I somewhat hesitate to think of them going for someone exclusive to Mystery Gift, especially back then when Mystery Gift was much harder to get access to. Forgot Plusle & Minun were in that movie, too. Of course picking based off the movies would be very timing-dependent as well, so if we're talking about shifting the timing then that could be beneficial or detrimental to the likes of Deoxys or P&M. But yeah it's all hypothetical, anyway.
That's a fair point. But also, I mean, they make whole-ass movies based on Pokemon not available through normal means in-game. Kids see the movie and then... can't get the Pokemon. I don't think being mythical and therefore difficult to actually legitimately obtain has ever really caused TPC to shy away from promoting said Pokemon, at least after they're "officially" revealed. Often it happens more than most of the gen.

TPC's priority is more about selling you **** than pushing Pokemon that are easiest to obtain. I mean one of the most marketed Pokemon, at least at one point, was Mew.

Also had they gone for a Mystery Gift Pokemon that would've enabled even stronger possible cross-promotion between Pokemon and Smash, whereby the purchase of the latter could've helped obtain the Pokemon in the former. Though of course this is all just spitballing, and, like you said, hypothetical.
 

CannonStreak

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I don't think anyone disagrees that they can, it's just with most of the staples already present, and with the first of the two spots designated for promotion, it seems less likely they'd go back for some other Pokemon character (imo especially from Gens 2, 4, 6 and 7). Especially since conditioning the fanbase to only really anticipate promotional additions has resulted in no older Pokemon accruing longstanding, significant Smash demand.
I am sure there would have been no disagreement with what I said, but I just felt the need to point something out here. I can see that a Pokemon from past generations aside from Gen I could get into Smash if there was enough fan demand and possibly more factors, too.

In terms of the fan demand, I do think that there is NOT enough fan demand for such Pokemon, especially since some of such Pokemon have fans that have, as another said, have given up on them? Maybe it is because of the promotional picks thing plus other possible reasons?

I should note that if accurate, Mewtwo was going to be in Smash 64, but did not make it, so he got into Melee instead. Also, in my eyes, Pokemon Trainer was getting in Brawl, but since they decided not to make him a full-on fighter for whatever reason and just use Pokemon, I think the three Pokemon he uses became necessary in this case. I do think that maybe if Pokemon Trainer was not playable in Brawl, Charizard would remain a Pokeball character like in the previous two Smash Bros. games.

So, as you may know, dream1ng, AND as I should have said in my last post...

I do think Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon and Mewtwo had special cases.
 

Guynamednelson

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plus other possible reasons
When it comes to Smash, Pokemon fans are too submissive to fight for their preferred reps, except for Gen 2 somewhat

And/or acting like if you want a Pokemon that isn't whatever new starter's the most human, you want something on the level of Piranha Plant. If Smash fans actually paid attention to Pokemon they'd think Eevee is just as missing of an omission from the playable roster as Waluigi, not Meowscarada or some random Pokemon from an unrepped (not that they don't have ultra-popular mons)
 

CannonStreak

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When it comes to Smash, Pokemon fans are too submissive to fight for their preferred reps, except for Gen 2 somewhat

And/or acting like if you want a Pokemon that isn't whatever new starter's the most human, you want something on the level of Piranha Plant. If Smash fans actually paid attention to Pokemon they'd think Eevee is just as missing of an omission from the playable roster as Waluigi, not Meowscarada or some random Pokemon from an unrepped (not that they don't have ultra-popular mons)
Really? They are too submissive? That is interesting.

It is kind of sad, too, as those fans should not stop themselves from wanting their favorite Pokemon in a Smash Bros. game. I wonder what is stopping them from trying to get their wanted Pokemon into a Smash Bros. game, anyway?

I mean, I know there are so many Pokemon if that means anything, but I don't think ceasing in terms of wanting a character is something that should happen easily.

And I am not making fun of the Pokemon fans, either.
 

Guynamednelson

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They are too submissive?
Well, just look here. The same people who went "fan rules get broken all time time!" when someone brought up reasons why Master Chief may not make it to Smash a few weeks ago are conveniently forgetting they said that when it comes to getting an older Pokemon.
 

SPEN18

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Also had they gone for a Mystery Gift Pokemon that would've enabled even stronger possible cross-promotion between Pokemon and Smash, whereby the purchase of the latter could've helped obtain the Pokemon in the former. Though of course this is all just spitballing, and, like you said, hypothetical.
I suppose, though there's no reason they couldn't do this with any other Pokemon. Give out a special "Smash-themed" version of the Pokemon with an exclusive move or ability or something referencing its Smash kit.

And yeah, appearing in the movies definitely helps promotion-wise. Though when you get a Pokemon like Lucario who is promoted in the movie and then also is readily obtainable in-game, then that's even more advantageous. I don't think MG-exclusivity is a disqualifier, just a point against them that a lot of players may never encounter them (on the other side of it, the fact that all players are guaranteed to come across the starters right at the beginning is an advantage).
 

Guynamednelson

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Ultimate speculation really mindbroke the Pokémon section of the Smash fandom, huh?
Can confirm

Am mindbroken

And will remain that way until we get a Pokemon newcomer that is really, really unlike Incineroar

Which I think there is only one plausible option for
 

DarthEnderX

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The conversation about "nobodies" and "literal whos" is so pointless considering Smash's playerbase is so huge that the average consumer has never heard of like 80% of the roster.
I haven't had a "literal who" moment that wasn't a FE character since Melee.

All my "Who?"s:

Marth
Roy
Ice Climbers
G&W
Ike
Lucina
Robin
Shulk

yeah but everyone also thinks sakurai plays favourites when it comes to FE
He doesn't play "favorites" with FE, he plays "the FE devs have dirt on me and are blackmailing me" with FE.
 
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Noipoi

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The last time I went “Who?” was Richter. If it weren’t for the SNK leak I would’ve done the same for Terry.

Not to disparage those guys, I just didn’t know them at the time :drshrug:
 

DarthEnderX

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I imagine Dynasty/Samurai Warriors has to be somewhere up there as well. Not including spin-offs, there’s been 9 Dynasty Warriors games, 5 Samurai Warriors games, and 4 Warriors Orochi games (basically a crossover between Dynasty and Samurai Warriors).
And that's if you don't count the fact that the Dynasty/Samurai Warriors games were originally spinoffs of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms/Nobunaga's Ambition strategy games that have been around since the NES days.

Why do you think, out of all the smaller franchises out there, were Persona and Fatal Fury chosen? Why not say... Ace Attorney or Bravely Default? Why those two in particular?
FF was probably chosen because it's hugely popular in South America and because Sakurai loves KoF.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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There's quite a few I didn't know; Samus was the funniest one in Smash 64. Melee was only a case of Marth, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch. Roy doesn't count as he didn't exist yet. Brawl I oddly knew everyone(R.O.B. I only knew through Mario Kart DS, though). As for 4, I didn't know about Shulk, and once again, Corrin didn't release yet(especially where I was moreso). The other Fire Emblem characters I knew a little of at the time up until Ultimate, where Byleth was pretty new too(but out for a bit, unlike Corrin and Roy). As for Ultimate, Joker was the only one I didn't know about.
 

DarthEnderX

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Have ya’ll seen this, it’s certainly… something
Lol, some fanbases clearly gaming that poll.

Sackboy, Shadowheart and Arthur Morgan don't belong on that list. Agent 47 nowhere near that high if at all.

The real question is do the characters from BG3 count as video game or D&D characters?
D&D is 4th Party. Full stop.

They're a bunch of Android 21s.

I just want Gengar as far as Pokemon go. Keep the set we got now, add Gengar, it's peak.
Gengar and Garchomp. That's 4 new Types for Smash.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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I didn’t know
Smash 64: Link, Samus, Ness, Captain Falcon
Melee: Ice Climbers, Shiek, Zelda, Marth, Young Link, Ganondorf, Roy, Mr. Game & Watch
Brawl: Lucas and I didn’t know Pit outside of the trophy in Melee

That was it, sad that it took me so long to learn about Zelda.
 
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Capybara Gaming

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Lol, some fanbases clearly gaming that poll.

Sackboy, Shadowheart and Arthur Morgan don't belong on that list. Agent 47 nowhere near that high if at all.

D&D is 4th Party. Full stop.

They're a bunch of Android 21s.

Gengar and Garchomp. That's 4 new Types for Smash.
Ghost Ground and Dragon are new but Ivysaur is technically a Poison type
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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My "Who??"s:
64: Samus, Fox, Captain Falcon, Ness. Maybe Kirby as well? I'm not sure.
Melee: Ice Climbers, Falco, Marth, Roy, Mr. Game & Watch
Brawl: Lucario. Been 100% disinterested in Pokémon after Gen 2, and kinda Lucas, only knew him through speculation
Smash 4: Wii Fit Trainer, then Robin and Shulk I knew but only through speculation
Ultimate: Richter and Joker
 

Schnee117

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The thing with Eevee is that no one has come up with a good moveset idea for it, it's certainly possible but we have yet to land on a winning formula that highlights Eevee itself. Get a good moveset out there and you'll be able to sell it better because honestly? The reasoning for why Eevee should make it is more cynical than Sakurai being given a selection of Hot New Things and being able to pick the Hot New Thing That Actually Appeals To Him. Meowscarada can appeal by being a Trickster "Magician" Cat. Quaquaval can appeal because Carnival Dancer Duck. Gholdengo can appeal by being a Surfer Dude Made Up Entirely By Coins. Tinkaton can appeal because Unga Bunga Hammer. Iron Valiant can appeal because Killer Robot With Energy Dual Blade. Annihilape appeals because Local Ape Literally Too Angry To Die + Gohan Beast. Ogerpon can appeal because Unga Bunga Club And Masks. Baxcalibur appeals because Ice Godzilla. There's inherent gameplay hooks and base concepts here that you can start building from really easily if one so desires.

Moveset Ideas are the key for Pokémon. What can Eevee bring to the table that few other viable candidates can? Provide a satisfactory enough answer to that and you'll start to win people over or at least get people to give it slightly more consideration. At the very least you'll fair much better than lashing out over it for the umpteenth time.

Sell us on Eevee without taking a dig at anything else or shut up is effectively the long and short of what I'm saying.
 

Gengar84

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I knew most characters but there were a few that I hadn’t heard of before they joined Smash. Heres the ones I can think of off the top of my head:

Marth
Roy
The Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
Lucas
Alph
Alex

Others I was vaguely familiar with but only at a very surface level:

Ness
Richter
Isabelle

The thing with Eevee is that no one has come up with a good moveset idea for it, it's certainly possible but we have yet to land on a winning formula that highlights Eevee itself. Get a good moveset out there and you'll be able to sell it better because honestly? The reasoning for why Eevee should make it is more cynical than Sakurai being given a selection of Hot New Things and being able to pick the Hot New Thing That Actually Appeals To Him. Meowscarada can appeal by being a Trickster "Magician" Cat. Quaquaval can appeal because Carnival Dancer Duck. Gholdengo can appeal by being a Surfer Dude Made Up Entirely By Coins. Tinkaton can appeal because Unga Bunga Hammer. Iron Valiant can appeal because Killer Robot With Energy Dual Blade. Annihilape appeals because Local Ape Literally Too Angry To Die + Gohan Beast. Ogerpon can appeal because Unga Bunga Club And Masks. Baxcalibur appeals because Ice Godzilla. There's inherent gameplay hooks and base concepts here that you can start building from really easily if one so desires.

Moveset Ideas are the key for Pokémon. What can Eevee bring to the table that few other viable candidates can? Provide a satisfactory enough answer to that and you'll start to win people over or at least get people to give it slightly more consideration. At the very least you'll fair much better than lashing out over it for the umpteenth time.

Sell us on Eevee without taking a dig at anything else or shut up is effectively the long and short of what I'm saying.
I think the best way to do Eevee is to base it off its Let’s Go Eevee moveset. That Eevee had a ton of exclusive moves representing the different elements it could evolve into. You could even add a bit of visual flare by creating a spectral version of that evolution behind Eevee when it uses the corresponding attack. It would mostly just be a visual thing and wouldn’t affect the move itself. This could call back to Eevee’s Z move from Sun and Moon (Extreme Eevoboost). That Z move could also work great as a Final Smash. This way, Eevee could still reference its evolutions without having to actually evolve mid battle.

Here’s a basic description I found online for each of your partner Eevee’s exclusive attacks. There’s more than enough to work with here for a really unique and interesting moveset (the attack names are really dumb, I know lol):


MovePowerTypeEffect
Bouncy Bubble90water IconHeal for 50% of the damage dealt
Buzzy Buzz90electric IconAlways cause Paralyze on hit
Sizzly Slide90fire IconAlways cause Burn on hit
Glitzy Glow90Psychic IconCreates Reflector that halves Special damage dealt
Baddy Bad90dark IconCreates Reflector that halves Physical damage dealt
Sappy Seed90Grass IconPlant a HP leeching seed on target
Freezy Frost90Ice IconResets all Stat Bonus for all Pokemon on field
Sparkly Swirl90Fairy IconHeals ally's Status Effect
Veevee VolleyVariesNormal IconPower changes depending on Friendliness, never misses

That said, I’d still rather have Gengar if we get another Gen 1 rep but I do think Eevee has potential to be interesting. Since we’re on the topic of people not sharing their favorite Pokemon often enough, here’s my top three favorites from each generation again (with a couple bonuses). Lucario would be in the Gen 4 section but I’ll leave him off because it already made it into Smash:

Gen 1: Gengar, Electabuzz, Kabutops
Gen 2: Houndoom, Gligar, Sneasel
Gen 3: Zangoose, Seviper, Deoxys A
Gen 4: Toxicroak, Gliscor, Garchomp
Gen 5: Cofagrigus, Zoroark, Kyurem
Gen 6: Clawitzer, Noivern, Malamar
Gen 7: Golisopod, Lycanroc MN, Salazzle
Gen 8: Orbeetle, Toxtricity, Corviknight
Gen 9: Great Tusk, Ceruledge, Lokix
Other: Sneasler, Hisuian Zoroark
 
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Garteam

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I wouldn't mind if Pokemon sat out getting a newcomer in this game. The series is already pretty well-represented with its veterans and I'd much rather Sakurai take the effort to bring back characters like :ultmewtwo: and :ultgreninja: than going out of his way to include another Pokemon for the sake of having a new Pokemon. I feel pretty similarly about Fire Emblem and Xenoblade.

Maybe if there was a really good and unique idea behind the newcomer like :ultpokemontrainer:, I could be open to them on their merits alone. I like Meowscarda, but I will also admit that it doesn't reach this standard. I'd also like to see a moveset that is more overtly beastly after :ultlucario:, :ultgreninja:, and especially :ultincineroar: provided more humanoid takes on Pokemon movesets, but that has a lot to do with who the TPC wants to promote rather than just Sakurai's direction.
 

Gengar84

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I wouldn't mind if Pokemon sat out getting a newcomer in this game. The series is already pretty well-represented with its veterans and I'd much rather Sakurai take the effort to bring back characters like :ultmewtwo: and :ultgreninja: than going out of his way to include another Pokemon for the sake of having a new Pokemon. I feel pretty similarly about Fire Emblem and Xenoblade.

Maybe if there was a really good and unique idea behind the newcomer like :ultpokemontrainer:, I could be open to them on their merits alone. I like Meowscarda, but I will also admit that it doesn't reach this standard. I'd also like to see a moveset that is more overtly beastly after :ultlucario:, :ultgreninja:, and especially :ultincineroar: provided more humanoid takes on Pokemon movesets, but that has a lot to do with who the TPC wants to promote rather than just Sakurai's direction.
Some of my favorites I listed above would be among my most hype Smash newcomers overall but I don’t really need a new Pokemon just for the sake of having a new Pokemon. There are a ton of other series and characters I’d be just as excited for if not more so in some cases. I would be surprised if we didn’t get any Pokemon newcomer at all but I’d be fine as long as I got some other characters from other series that interest me.

(I think that chart I posted earlier screwed up the formatting on this post but I think it will go back to normal on the next one)
 
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Gengar84

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I just hope it's not another starter, I wanna see a more unique type covered, like Ghost.
Yeah, I do like Meowscarada and the rest of its line but we just had a Dark type bipedal cat starter and I don’t care for the other starter lines from this gen. Ghost and Bug probably have the highest number of my absolute favorite Pokemon (listed above) so I’d love to see one from either of those types. Neither type has had a Smash character yet.
 
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Oracle Link

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If there are two franchises that deserve cuts the most its pokemon/ fire emblem!
If you guys argue they should get more characters because they are (rotating franchises) than they should well...
rotatate cut out Lucina nad chrome or someone else if you want to see more characters in smash 6!
 
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