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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gorgonzales

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You can add any Mario game from the NES, SNES, N64, GB, or GBA (that isn't already on NSO) to this list to add to Nintendo Switch Online for Mar10 Day, what would you pick?

I pick Mario Paint.
Super Mario Land, because... come on, why is the first Super Mario Land game not on NSO, but Super Mario Land 2 is? That's really weird.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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We don't have Wario Land 2 either. Just Land 3 and 1, essentially. Hell, the only other Handheld one is a WarioWare game.

It's clear they're kind of inconsistent in what they add. There's no clear order whatsoever. And yes, it's weird it's not there yet, agreed. Just that it's a pretty inconsistent service, so I wouldn't put much stock into its absence. It's not at least a case like how Donkey Kong 64 has licensing agreements to make first.
 

Will

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We don't have Wario Land 2 either. Just Land 3 and 1, essentially. Hell, the only other Handheld one is a WarioWare game.
Tbf if you played WL3 you just played a better, nonlinear version of WL2. Wario Land 3 is still one of my favorite games of all time, and it’s sad the Gameboy games don’t get much recognition from the Smash side.

Wario Land 3’s Credits is still one of the best GB music tracks I’ve ever heard.

 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Tbf if you played WL3 you just played a better, nonlinear version of WL2. Wario Land 3 is still one of my favorite games of all time, and it’s sad the Gameboy games don’t get much recognition from the Smash side.
...Aren't they still functionally different games, not something like a port in disguise? Like, this isn't ignoring the old LA for DX here(which is more fair). It's a different game. I mean, 3 is better, absolutely. But the point is they're inconsistent anyway.

And they do need more love, agreed. It doesn't even have to be a moveset reference even. We got Spirits. I also wish we had a Wario Land-inspired stage too. Not that the other two are bad stages. They're pretty cool(albeit, having the one labeled WarioWare in Single Player is not actually fun due to easily killing you with RNG, ruining a lot of runs. Not all stages work well in that regard).
 

Will

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...Aren't they still functionally different games, not something like a port in disguise?
I remember a lot of bosses from 2 getting revamped in 3, but it’s truly been 10 years since I beat the game, I could be tripping 100%.

Different lore as well, but I think 3 vastly improved what 2 started with the immortal Wario gameplay. I wish that would come back some day.

And they do need more love, agreed. It doesn't even have to be a moveset reference even. We got Spirits. I also wish we had a Wario Land-inspired stage too. Not that the other two are bad stages. They're pretty cool(albeit, having the one labeled WarioWare in Single Player is not actually fun due to easily killing you with RNG, ruining a lot of runs. Not all stages work well in that regard).
I’d take anything from a non-WarioWare game. It seems that Nintendo simply wants to deny the existence of treasure-hunting Wario instead of the ”entrepreneur” Wario.

Another banger from Wario in the early 2000’s:


I should’ve kept the copy of this game I got from GameStop at $3 in 2010
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I remember a lot of bosses from 2 getting revamped in 3, but it’s truly been 10 years since I beat the game, I could be tripping 100%.

Different lore as well, but I think 3 vastly improved what 2 started with the immortal Wario gameplay. I wish that would come back some day.


I’d take anything from a non-WarioWare game. It seems that Nintendo simply wants to deny the existence of treasure-hunting Wario instead of the ”entrepreneur” Wario.

Another banger from Wario in the early 2000’s:

I should’ve kept the copy of this game I got from GameStop at $3 in 2010
I rarely ever get rid of a game. Unless it's an extra copy, I shouldn't have gotten rid of the original FF1. If only cause it's vastly different from the Playstation one.

It's a cool game. I got it too~
 

RileyXY1

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We don't have Wario Land 2 either. Just Land 3 and 1, essentially. Hell, the only other Handheld one is a WarioWare game.

It's clear they're kind of inconsistent in what they add. There's no clear order whatsoever. And yes, it's weird it's not there yet, agreed. Just that it's a pretty inconsistent service, so I wouldn't put much stock into its absence. It's not at least a case like how Donkey Kong 64 has licensing agreements to make first.
You forgot about Wario Land 4 on the GBA.
 

Wonder Smash

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I remember some pages back, there was a discussion which company people would like for SEGA to do a crossover with, with it mostly coming down to Nintendo or Capcom

With the kind of characters SEGA own, I feel they can crossover with almost any company. Nintendo (my personal pick) and Capcom both make sense for them but you can also make a case for Namco, Tecmo, Square-Enix, SNK, Arc System Works, and maybe even NetherRealm Studios.

Yes, before making Mario sports game (and even before Golden sun) they were working on Shining force with Sega.
And they also made Beyond the Beyond with Sony.

Super Mario Land, because... come on, why is the first Super Mario Land game not on NSO, but Super Mario Land 2 is? That's really weird.
I've seen a lot of people say this. They're really disappointed that Nintendo still hasn't added the first one yet.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Wario Land 3 is the best game I've played in 2023 (Link's Awakening and F-Zero 99 come close though), so I've been waiting for Wario Land 2 for a while.
Wario Land 4 isn't on the service either, iirc. Would love to play more Wario games. Ware is also good but of course it is a different experience.

As for Mario himself, I'm pretty sure I've already played every mainline 2d and 3d platformers, only missing Land 1 and 3d Land I think. Those would be nice...
Speaking of Mario, Wonder has been a bit of a disappointment to me. It's a gorgeous and incredibly inventive game of course, and I've certainly enjoyed my time with it, but it's such a non-challenge (except for the final final badge level) it goes by very quickly and it kinda all blends together. There's a couple of worlds, including the Bowser one, where I straight up never died. A bit of challenge does a lot to make a game memorable, you don't realize it until it's gone though. Wish they'd dial it back up a little in future games.
 

Louie G.

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It seems that Nintendo simply wants to deny the existence of treasure-hunting Wario instead of the ”entrepreneur” Wario.
It's understandable to want more content from the other Wario games, but this character detail isn't true. Wario still loves hunting for treasure and that is evident as recent as his last two starring roles.

1710176326169.png
1710176414033.png


Get It Together even has Wario use his Shoulder Bash as his signature move, and Move It features a boss from Wario Land 4. Maybe I'm splitting hairs a bit here but the point is this issue seems to be a bit alleviated lately. It's not a new Wario Land game but it's the characterization people want from Wario bleeding further into the WarioWare titles... I guess we'll see what comes of that in Smash, if anything. Probably not much.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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That's the one that's on Gameboy Online right? Cause, wow. I played a bunch of that, and I did not care for it AT ALL.
I struggled a lot with the game at the beginning too, didn't enjoy the first couple hours all that much as your moveset is very limited and the way the progression works is unclear. In fact I was about to drop it.
Once I got some power-ups and started to click with the game's structure though, I got into platforming/puzzle heaven and I ended up 100% completing the game. It's kinda like a more segmented Metroid, really suits my tastes. I was also surprised by how well Wario handles, by the quality of the sprite work and by the amount of content. It's almost a SNES game, much like Link's Awakening.
I definitely recommend it, though yeah the first times with the game can be pretty rough.
 

DarthEnderX

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I struggled a lot with the game at the beginning too, didn't enjoy the first couple hours all that much as your moveset is very limited and the way the progression works is unclear. In fact I was about to drop it.
That is what I did.

I got as far as the 2nd world. And couldn't figure out how to progress. And went "I can either look this up...or I can play something else..."



Dealing with the day/night cycle was particularly annoying.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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That is what I did.

I got as far as the 2nd world. And couldn't figure out how to progress. And went "I can either look this up...or I can play something else..."



Dealing with the day/night cycle was particularly annoying.
Heh, I have a feeling it's the same exact spot I got stuck in when I was about to drop it. The Pool of Rain?

Yeah the day/night cycle honestly doesn't add all that much.
 

Will

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It's understandable to want more content from the other Wario games, but this character detail isn't true. Wario still loves hunting for treasure and that is evident as recent as his last two starring roles.

View attachment 386293View attachment 386294

Get It Together even has Wario use his Shoulder Bash as his signature move, and Move It features a boss from Wario Land 4. Maybe I'm splitting hairs a bit here but the point is this issue seems to be a bit alleviated lately. It's not a new Wario Land game but it's the characterization people want from Wario bleeding further into the WarioWare titles... I guess we'll see what comes of that in Smash, if anything. Probably not much.
But is the plot and gameplay surrounding Wario treasure-hunting?

No?

Then you’re playing the “entrepreneur” fraud. Simple as. :iwatadirect:

I don’t dislike WarioWare (the characters are cool), and I don’t really think Wario is washed up, a shell of his older games, or anything petty like that. I just want Wario Land 6, and the series has barely gotten recognition from the company outside of the GB Online additions, which is a great start.
 
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Wunderwaft

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Is this a bad time to ask everyone what Mario characters they want in smash cause it’s Mario day?
Waluigi, just put him in man. I have been waiting for a four player smash battle between the bros for a long time now. :chrono:

If we're including the extended universe as well then bring me Ashley too.
 

Kirbeh

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I know it's incredibly unlikely but I'd love to see a new Wario Land that actually bridges the two series by the bringing in the Ware crew as supporting characters or maybe even playable characters for a few of them.

I think it'd be pretty neat to see what they could come up with for characters like Mona and Ashley to try and navigate a Wario Land level. And of course, I'd like to see Syrup return again. Maybe she could be working together with Wario like the others or star in her own separate game mode. Kinda like the extra modes in Shantae where you play as characters like Rottytops and Risky Boots.
 

Louie G.

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I know it's incredibly unlikely but I'd love to see a new Wario Land that actually bridges the two series by the bringing in the Ware crew as supporting characters or maybe even playable characters for a few of them.

I think it'd be pretty neat to see what they could come up with for characters like Mona and Ashley to try and navigate a Wario Land level. And of course, I'd like to see Syrup return again. Maybe she could be working together with Wario like the others or star in her own separate game mode. Kinda like the extra modes in Shantae where you play as characters like Rottytops and Risky Boots.
I know it's kind of the reverse, but I always thought the perfect way to bring back Captain Syrup in a prominent way would be as a business rival for Wario who opens up shop right across the street and effectively sells bootlegs (or 'pirated' games... someone here may have said that once). That would allow WW to explore elements of the series that haven't been touched in years while also remaining true to that series' identity, and somewhat bridging that gap to all the worlds to combine.

I'm also compelled by the idea of using the Warioware cast as supporting crew in a Wario Land game, or using Diamond City as a central location. I really think there's a lot of untapped, unexplored potential there and it's a shame everyone treats it like such an either-or affair. The Smash community and sometimes greater Nintendo sphere makes you feel like Warioware is some maligned series that steered Wario off course instead of a really fun little series of games with quirky characters. If there are other ways to let those characters in on new experiences I would love to see them.

Another angle on a new Wario Land that keeps it contemporary and adds fresh new characters is letting Waluigi be Player 2, but having the game be sort of a "competitive co-op" affair where you could just as easily thwart one another and compete for the treasure as you can decided to work together. I think this kind of anti-teamwork angle keeps the spirit of Wario Land alive as the anti-Mario, where Wonder streamlines co-op play so you don't have to worry about bumping into one another Wario has that intrusiveness be his selling point. We really ought to have that Captain Syrup Doronjo dynamic fulfilled in proper.
 
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Ivander

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It's certainly not impossible to try to connect a new Wario Land to WarioWare. I think one of the WarioWare games even said at one point that Wario once took Mona with him on a treasure expedition or something. You could utilise Mona as a Shopkeeper/Gear Maker(that she gets Wario to pay for to make sure he doesn't skimp out of paying her after the adventure ends) and even give her some of her own playable sections that play somewhat differently from Wario's levels, like levels where she uses her scooter and other gadgets like boomerangs and whatnot.

But yeah, I'd like to see a new Wario Land too.
 

HyperSomari64

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All I can say is that if the Pikmin species can appear in Mario Golf and Super Nintendo World, even if it's just an Easter Egg, does that means Rhythm Heaven is (indirectly) part of the Mario franchise.
 
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BuckleyTim

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Honestly my desire for a new Wario Land has really waned now that we've entered the Wario-like renaissance. Pizza Tower, Antonblast, even smaller stuff like Treasure Tech or Susan Taxpayer has really whet my whistle when it comes to that kind of gameplay. Not that I'd be against a revival of the Wah, but I kinda am afraid it just won't stack up to what I've seen that evolves the formula, y'know?
 

Will

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Honestly my desire for a new Wario Land has really waned now that we've entered the Wario-like renaissance. Pizza Tower, Antonblast, even smaller stuff like Treasure Tech or Susan Taxpayer has really whet my whistle when it comes to that kind of gameplay. Not that I'd be against a revival of the Wah, but I kinda am afraid it just won't stack up to what I've seen that evolves the formula, y'know?
People said the same thing about 2D Metroid, and then Dread was nominated for GOTY 2021.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It is odd how Waluigi barely shows up beyond a simple mini-game cameo(if I remember right) in WarioWare, but considering he was built for the spin-off sports-type stuff(which includes Kart for this purpose), that makes sense. He really has no relation to the Land series, and only has minor stuff even in the mainline games at best.

He still should appear more, but him not fully appearing in Wario Land or WarioWare isn't really a big deal. He wasn't really meant to. Now, I do wish we got some more obvious characters finally appearing in the Kart/etc. games. Dr. Mario you would think is a super obvious costume or clone character. But nope. He surprisingly never showed up. One thing is not having anyone from WarioWare in(which should change), and they don't take that much from DKC either(though to be fair, some characters did have some odd legalities to deal with during some of the time. Also, Diddy Kong Racing was a thing. So was a plan for Donkey Kong Racing, so they probably had an ideal way to use them at the time. Nowadays it doesn't matter), but barely anything from the other regular Mario spin-offs is odd. Luigi's Mansion really is the only sub-series to properly have a character besides other Sports games.

...I would say Shy Guy, but they didn't debut in a Yoshi game.
 

Chuderz

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Just wanted to say something random.

I hate Snake's new Down-Smash and no I don't think he should have gotten his old one back. I understand completely that it was either the old Down-Smash or C4 Down-Special and obviously Down-Special takes priority and I especially appreciate that decision because useless specials are far too common. I love Snake's entire arsenal EXCEPT Down-Smash! It just ugh I hate it. It being the one move in his kit that I don't like just annoys me to no end because the devs almost got him perfect in the game.

Now Snake's current one is still a serviceable Down-Smash regardless of it being very generic and uninspired but I also just hate that about it.

His current Forward-Smash should be his Down-Smash and for his new Forward-Smash I'd have him bust out a knife for a nice multi hitter Smash attack and maybe even give it a tipper like Kazuya. Even if you the reader don't think my idea is the right fit I still think all his Smash attacks should involve his arsenal of weapons in some fashion. I still think my idea of rotating around his current F-Smash to his Down-Smash and giving him a cool unique knife move in his kit is a winner.
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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Imagine Jimmy T being included next time as a Wario representative instead of Waluigi. (I use "instead of" a bit loosely, I feel like they should be the same character.)
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Imagine Jimmy T being included next time as a Wario representative instead of Waluigi. (I use "instead of" a bit loosely, I feel like they should be the same character.)
...Waluigi isn't a Wario character. He doesn't really properly appear in any Wario games. He barely has a cameo. So it wouldn't matter who it was. This isn't a case where some could be under multiple labels either(I.E. Yoshi being separate is arbitrary at this point).

They're completely different characters and only share some design similarities. Jimmy T. may have been inspired by Waluigi's design, though.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If you're talking about the Crowd Control microgame in Smooth Moves, nope. Wasn't Waluigi. Just a distorted Wario.
You can tell by the mustache.
I wasn't.

"In WarioWare Gold, Waluigi appears as a crude drawing if the player scans his amiibo during Wario's amiibo Sketch, an appearance shared with most Nintendo characters with amiibo. This is Waluigi's only appearance in a Wario title, despite being depicted as his partner in many Super Mario spinoffs."

 

superprincess

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I don't think the Wario series should get another character. Besides the fact that Wario himself not being classified as a Mario character is a bit odd, I don't see what any of his Ware friends could bring to the table in terms of moveset potential. I'd love Captain Syrup to join, but let's be realistic.

And no, Waluigi doesn't count as a Wario character at all. They're paired together in the spinoffs, but that's it. Waluigi never appears in Wario's games. Kinda like how Birdo never appears in Yoshi's, or Daisy in Peach's.

When it comes to Mario subseries that should get another character, it's totally Luigi's Mansion. With just three entries, it's sold more copies than Wario's whole extensive collection of platformers and microgame collections. King Boo is particularly interesting, as he's a character with a unique body type, plus he is a ghost, which Smash doesn't have any of, and has a plethora of distinct abilities. He'd also bring in another villain, and a really famous one at that... the Boo species is one of the most popular and well known Mario enemies, after Goombas, Koopas and Piranha Plants. If not the ghostly king, it could also be Professor E. Gadd using his various gadgets... but I don't see that as very likely.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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I wasn't.

"In WarioWare Gold, Waluigi appears as a crude drawing if the player scans his amiibo during Wario's amiibo Sketch, an appearance shared with most Nintendo characters with amiibo. This is Waluigi's only appearance in a Wario title, despite being depicted as his partner in many Super Mario spinoffs."

You said "there was a mini-game or something".

The amiibo sketch isn't really a mini-game, so I was assuming you were referring to the Crowd Control microgame on top of the sketch since for the longest time people claimed Waluigi was there.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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You said "there was a mini-game or something".

The amiibo sketch isn't really a mini-game, so I was assuming you were referring to the Crowd Control microgame on top of the sketch since for the longest time people claimed Waluigi was there.
Like I said, I really don't know the details. X.X

My bad either way. I get where the confusion is now. Admittedly it does sound like it could've been a mini-game even by name, heh.

Ivander Ivander She, please. :)
 
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