Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Mamboo07]

Do you guys think that Sakurai would go for a starter for the third time in a row, or do you think he would go for something different this time around in regards to the Pokémon newcomer?

Most likely a starter.

Edit: but could depend on what Gen 9 Pokémon he picks.

 

[Noipoi]

Do you guys think that Sakurai would go for a starter for the third time in a row, or do you think he would go for something different this time around in regards to the Pokémon newcomer?

Probably a starter, it’s like tradition at this point.

I’ll say this though, in the instance where a Paldea Pokemon is chosen instead of someone from Gen 10 (say Gen 10 is held off for a year for the anniversary) I could see them perhaps going with Gholdengo. The 1000th Pokemon is a big deal. And maybe (maybe!!) Scream Tail as an additional echo.

Any other scenario, probably a starter.

 

[fogbadge]

Do you guys think that Sakurai would go for a starter for the third time in a row, or do you think he would go for something different this time around in regards to the Pokémon newcomer?

last couple times it really just came down to whoever took his fancy

 

[Zerp]

Sorry Zerp not sure if administrator has moderator powers(they're usually higher in my experience) but I think we may need you weigh in now

I do. I'll say this, I believe representation has value and people have the right to want it in a game, that's clear at least. Unfortunately though I don't have time to read the thread currently and I feel I'm likely missing vital context here, so I can't comment anymore.

Anyway, I'd recommend everyone stop discussing this for the moment. I'll go get someone with the time to review everything that's taken place but for the meantime how about you all talk about other things? Like the starter Pokémon discussion for example.

 

[NintenRob]

I hope it's not a starter. I love Greninja but I don't want it to become the standard. Pokémon have potential for some of most unique and interesting movements in the series. Sticking to same three elements limits that.

I guess it just depends on the context of the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I hope it's not a starter. I love Greninja but I don't want it to become the standard. Pokémon have potential for some of most unique and interesting movements in the series. Sticking to same three elements limits that.

I guess it just depends on the context of the game.

Part of the reason why I don't want the next Pokemon rep to be from the current generation (whether the current gen is 9, 10, 11, whatever Sakurai will have reference material for when starting the next Smash's development) is because I know it'll be another starter. If Mimikyu or Lycanroc weren't chosen despite the marketing they got, Gholdengo's chances are anything but golden.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It will be a Gen 10 newcomer at the earliest.

Only way we're getting a Gen 9 (non-Echo in the case of Scream Tail since that's an option regardless as long as Jigglypuff returns) newcomer is if the design document for the next Smash had been drafted at some point between Sora's reveal and Scarlet/Violet releasing.

It's how we got Lucario, as Gen 4 was on the way after Brawl's design document.
It's how we got Greninja, as Gen 6 was on the way after For's design document.
It's how we got Incineroar, as Gen 7 was on the way after Ultimate's design document.

The idea that it will somehow be different to give Gen 9 special treatment is frankly absurd.

 

[Noipoi]

It will be a Gen 10 newcomer at the earliest.

Only way we're getting a Gen 9 (non-Echo in the case of Scream Tail since that's an option regardless as long as Jigglypuff returns) newcomer is if the design document for the next Smash had been drafted at some point between Sora's reveal and Scarlet/Violet releasing.

It's how we got Lucario, as Gen 4 was on the way after Brawl's design document.
It's how we got Greninja, as Gen 6 was on the way after For's design document.
It's how we got Incineroar, as Gen 7 was on the way after Ultimate's design document.

The idea that it will somehow be different to give Gen 9 special treatment is frankly absurd.

But what if (and bear with me here I think about this stuff) the next Smash comes out in 2025, and Gen 10 comes out in 2026? In that hypothetical scenario would they really add in a Pokémon from a generation that technically doesn’t exist yet?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think DK64 would not only benefit from a remake, it could also really do with one to be... not a slog to play through.

Maybe don't remake it at all, considering it's not particularly well-liked.

 

[Laniv]

Are people generally for Ogerpon? I fear she might have missed the boat

 

[NintenRob]

It will be a Gen 10 newcomer at the earliest.

Only way we're getting a Gen 9 (non-Echo in the case of Scream Tail since that's an option regardless as long as Jigglypuff returns) newcomer is if the design document for the next Smash had been drafted at some point between Sora's reveal and Scarlet/Violet releasing.

It's how we got Lucario, as Gen 4 was on the way after Brawl's design document.
It's how we got Greninja, as Gen 6 was on the way after For's design document.
It's how we got Incineroar, as Gen 7 was on the way after Ultimate's design document.

The idea that it will somehow be different to give Gen 9 special treatment is frankly absurd.

I understand where you're coming from and normally I would agree. But I do think a certain gen 9 Pokémon could prove the exception.

As others have said Gholdengo being Pokémon 1000 feels like something that could appropriate for Smash, maybe even as fighter 100.

With that said, that would probably be in addition to gen 10 Pokémon. Pokémon often gets more than one character anyway.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Aren't Pokemon newcomers also at least partly decided by popularity and by Gamefreak's own observations of the currently new popular and trending Pokemon?

I'm not sure if that policy's changed since then as I think Incineroar was also chosen primarily for being a wrestler archetype, which is a fighting style that wasn't really utilized by any character in Smash up to that point.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Maybe don't remake it at all, considering it's not particularly well-liked.

It’s had a resurgence as of late. It’s also one of the best examples of a game that todays technology can name infinitely better. Being able to swap Kong’s on the fly or having every Kong able to pick up everything fixed a lot of the issues. Make traversal a little faster and you got a damn good Collect-A-Thon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Aren't Pokemon newcomers also at least partly decided by popularity

They haven't been since Brawl, or maybe Solozard if you consider it a newcomer. Greninja was chosen before the public knew about it, for one thing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I dunno. Meowscarada just isn't very appealing to me.

Like, I even liked Incineroar and his Smash portrayal made him one of my favorites.

 

[NintenRob]

Are people generally for Ogerpon? I fear she might have missed the boat

For some reason, the wording of this post is kinda funny to me.

Technically Ogerpon hasn't missed anything. Right now she's in prime position to catch the boat. But it's seems quite likely the boat is going to be late for her. Boat hasn't arrived yet.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say, Sakurai usually has a fantastic understanding of what the fanbase will like when picking characters before they're released.

We ate up Roy and Greninja and Incineroar is starting to shed it's negative reputation in the Pokemon fanbase. (It's not the cat of the healthy meta.)

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

But what if (and bear with me here I think about this stuff) the next Smash comes out in 2025, and Gen 10 comes out in 2026? In that hypothetical scenario would they really add in a Pokémon from a generation that technically doesn’t exist yet?

An unlikely scenario given the 3 year cycle which there's no evidence of being broken. But assuming that there's somehow a plan to release the next Generation a year after Smash would release (which is also on the assumption the design document had already been drafted and we're already well on the way for a new release next year) then it depends on what is going to be released prior to that since there's no shortage of games released every year.

 

[Ivander]

Aren't Pokemon newcomers also at least partly decided by popularity and by Gamefreak's own observations of the currently new popular and trending Pokemon?

I'm not sure if that policy's changed since then as I think Incineroar was also chosen primarily for being a wrestler archetype, which is a fighting style that wasn't really utilized by any character in Smash up to that point.

Greninja was still in the concept designs when Sakurai picked him and Sakurai chose them because he believed Greninja would be the popular one, which was luck on his part because Greninja did become popular, although part of that was definitely because of his Protean Hidden Ability which made him a menace gameplay-wise.

Incineroar was ultimately chosen for the Wrestling archetype, but Sakurai was looking between them and Decidueye and Decidueye was definitely the most popular out of the Gen 7 Starters, with them getting put in the Switch version of Pokken and Pokemon Legends Arceus as the Grass Starter, so Sakurai almost pulled another Greninja in choosing the most popular starter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Mod Edit: Let’s mot do this when an Admin already warned against it.

I'm Peruvian, and it's bad if I want Annet Myer from Ernest Evans in Smash?

Azuscena from Tekken has a better shot.

 

[superprincess]

These last few pages were a nightmare to scroll through. Jeez.

Anyways, on the topic of new Pokémon. If they include another starter I think I'll explode. Greninja and Incineroar happened to be cool but that was just a lucky coincidence. Also, I know "recency bias hurr durr shill pick" is something Smash fans cry very often but I wish Smash could give some older characters from specific series (Pokémon and FE) a chance instead of always opting for the newest one.

I understand TPC and Intelligent Systems have a say on that, and they'd likely want their most recent projects to be represented, but maybe just maybe they should consider someone like Lyn and Eevee has more merits than Sword Lord #19 and another final evolution starter.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly Eevee would make for a good evergreen pick.

And Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee have been released in the period after Ultimate.

Maybe Eevee has a better chance than I thought?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Meowscarada still seems pretty popular, so I definitely think it could still be a hit with the playerbase as well.

I personally like it's Joker (the Persona one) style design, but I don't know if a moveset of it could translate well into Smash and still be different from any other character that's been in the series so far.

On the other hand, I'm gonna do a hot take and admit that I actually don't like Gholdengo very much. It's just that it's almost entirely gold palette makes it look more dull and plain than interesting, ironically enough.

 

[NintenRob]

Honestly Eevee would make for a good evergreen pick.

And Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee have been released in the period after Ultimate.

Maybe Eevee has a better chance than I thought?

Eevee is certainly a dark horse pick and if the Smash roster was designed without any consideration of past Smash roster, almost certainly would be on the roster instead of Jigglypuff (I say instead of Jigglypuff because I feel Eevee would compliment Pikachu the same way Jigglypuff currently compliments Pikachu)

 

[superprincess]

Honestly Eevee would make for a good evergreen pick.

And Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee have been released in the period after Ultimate.

Maybe Eevee has a better chance than I thought?

Eevee would be amazing. I'll admit I'm not into Pokémon at all, but the cute creatures are the ones that appeal to me the most. Smash leans too much towards the "cool" ones for my taste. Which is why I'm sad Jigglypuff and Pichu are at the highest stakes for being cut.

I also don't see Eevee's chances being too high unfortunately. Recent Starters will almost always be Pokémon's priority.

Pachirisu and Buneary for Smash

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I understand where you're coming from and normally I would agree. But I do think a certain gen 9 Pokémon could prove the exception.

As others have said Gholdengo being Pokémon 1000 feels like something that could appropriate for Smash, maybe even as fighter 100.

With that said, that would probably be in addition to gen 10 Pokémon. Pokémon often gets more than one character anyway.

The only time Pokémon got multiple planned new fighters since 64 was Brawl (Pichu was not part of the original plan and was added as roster filler later on). That's not all that "often".

And while Gholdengo being "Pokémon #1000" is a big milestone for Pokémon....that doesn't really come off as a believable enough reason to expect Sakurai to want to include it. It feels as arbitrary as when people hyped up Victini being given special treatment as "Pokémon 000" in the Unova Pokédex in the brief time Victini was discussed for Smash For instead of Zoroark.

 

[cashregister9]

I am definitely on Team Gholdengo because of the reasons already stated

But I think Ogerpon genuinely has a better chance than people are giving credit for. Not only is she a legendary but she also has a fun and unique gimmick while also being very popular.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It’s had a resurgence as of late. It’s also one of the best examples of a game that todays technology can name infinitely better. Being able to swap Kong’s on the fly or having every Kong able to pick up everything fixed a lot of the issues. Make traversal a little faster and you got a damn good Collect-A-Thon.

I just think, if you're going to remake a DK game, it'd be a more popular DKC game. If you're gonna remake a 3D platformer, it'd be a more popular Mario 64 or Banjo-Kazooie. DK64 would not be anyone's first pick.

Of course, neither would Mario vs. DK...and yet here we are...

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Honestly Eevee would make for a good evergreen pick.

And Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee have been released in the period after Ultimate.

Maybe Eevee has a better chance than I thought?

Can't wait for Pokémon Day to announce Let's Go, Wooper! and people start unironically speculating Wooper. :V

 

[Ivander]

Can't wait for Pokémon Day to announce Let's Go, Wooper! and people start unironically speculating Wooper. :V

We'll see whether that leak is true or not later.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I almost feeling like beating up some Pokemons now.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Just ****ing stop. Subject is on Pokémon now.

 

[NintenRob]

The only time Pokémon got multiple planned new fighters since 64 was Brawl (Pichu was not part of the original plan and was added as roster filler later on). That's not all that "often".

And while Gholdengo being "Pokémon #1000" is a big milestone for Pokémon....that doesn't really come off as a believable enough reason to expect Sakurai to want to include it. It feels as arbitrary as when people hyped up Victini being given special treatment as "Pokémon 000" in the Unova Pokédex in the brief time Victini was discussed for Smash For instead of Zoroark.

Again, for the most part I agree with you. While I do put Gholdengo into consideration, there are other things I think holds him back.

But I will clarify that very purposely didn't say "new" fighters. In this instance I was talking about bringing back Mewtwo in Smash 4 alongside Greninja, and all the other cut Pokémon alongside Incineroar in Smash Ultimate.



And in general, I just don't try to say things in absolutes with Smash. Do I think we're getting a gen 9 Pokémon? Not really. Am I discounting the possibility entirely? Nah, things happen.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah, now who here likes beating up on Pikachu and Pichu?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, now who here likes beating up on Pikachu and Pichu?

Is this bait?

 

[Louie G.]

Well, we got both Pokemon Trainer and Lucario in Brawl. I feel like the situation is a bit different now, but maybe there's a possibility of adding a Pokemon from the previous generation on top of the most current one at the time of release?

I guess it boils down to whatever is inspiring Sakurai - truth be told, if they're onto Gen 10 and they want a Pokemon from there then I don't know why Sakurai would fall back on someone like Meowscarada unless he was really captivated by the idea. Pokemon Trainer was a novel concept so it was probably being driven more by that than anything else. So it'd have to be a pretty significant, inspiring case... As far as Gen 9 goes I've been digging Ogerpon from what I know about them, maybe he'd be into the mask thing.

Or something from Gen 5 if there's a remake, I dunno. FireRed was relevant when Brawl was being decided. Maybe it's finally Zoroark's time to shine...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smash leans too much towards the "cool" ones for my taste

I used to be with the "cool" ones, but then they changed what "cool" was.

No but seriously, despite my taste in non-Pokemon newcomers leaning more towards what is "cool", you'll be more likely to see me hoping for another Pokemon like Pichu than Meowscarada because outside of Lycanroc's push in Gen 7, what they push as "cool" nowadays is a bit too anthromorphic for me. And even then...Lycanroc had that midnight form.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Is this bait?

Yes, it's a mouse bait.

(Get it?)

 

[NintenRob]

I quite like the idea of the next Pokémon newcomer having a body type not seen in Smash. It played a part in why I thought Tapu Koko would be fantastic. Whatever moveset Tapu Koko, nothing else could do what Tapu Koko did.

I just really don't want a human moveset again. While again, I love Greninja. I don't want something like Ninja or Wrestler. If you could have someone like Zangrief or some NES Pro Wrestler come into Smash and have the exact same moveset as you without it being weird, than I consider it to be a waste of a Pokémon spot.

 

[Perkilator]

As far as Pokémon goes, I think the fact that Gholdengo is classified as Pokémon #1000 gives him a pretty big edge in his favor.