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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Guynamednelson

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I just really don't want a human moveset again. While again, I love Greninja. I don't want something like Ninja or Wrestler. If you could have someone like Zangrief or some NES Pro Wrestler come into Smash and have the exact same moveset as you without it being weird, than I consider it to be a waste of a Pokémon spot.
Greninja at least had moves that remind you it's a frog ninja. You couldn't give that moveset to Ryu Hayabusa without dealing with issues like Greninja's tongue smacks.
 

Louie G.

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In defense of Meowscarada, we really don't have many magician type characters. I could see that inspiring Sakurai similarly to Greninja and Incineroar fulfilling ninja and wrestler / grappler archetypes respectively. That is, under the condition that Gen 9 is getting anything.

Even disregarding their role as starter, I feel like this stands out among the pack to an extent. I know they come off a bit like the boring, default pick right now but I've at least put some more thought toward them and how they might offer something distinct than the usual "grass starter" routine.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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Greninja at least had moves that remind you it's a frog ninja. You couldn't give that moveset to Ryu Hayabusa without dealing with issues like Greninja's tongue smacks.
.....and Incineroar had moves to remind you it's a cat with claws. Not to mention the fire belt blatantly being used for Down Special.

Anyone that says you could just give Incineroar's moveset to Zangief or Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven have neither played as Incineroar once in their life out of spite and nor have ever touched Street Fighter or Rhythm Heaven to know their movesets would not at all be the same.
 
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superprincess

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My problem isn't with Meowscarada itself, I just don't understand why people think we'll get a Gen 9 mon. Gen 9 will be old news by the time Smash 6 is out. If the project plan was finished late 2023, chances are the Smash team has plenty of time until a Gen 10 mon is revealed, either to the public or to Sakurai in private.
 

7NATOR

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So about Pokemon, to be honest, I think Pokemon has a say in having 2-3 Newcomers for its franchise in the Next Smash. It doesn't all have to be in the base game

1 Newcomer for Gen 8
1 Newcomer for Gen 9
1 Newcomer for Gen 10, Likely DLC.

I think going into the next Smash game, I think DLC is probably going to be planned from the Start at the same time as base game, and have a bigger focus in this Next Smash game than the others, Seeing how Smash DLC has been successful for 2 Games in a Row, with Ultimate getting a Whole other pass as well as other DLC in other Nintendo games

So I don't think they need to do the thing where they reserve a spot for a Pokemon that to us, don't even exist yet. That's what DLC is for, and I think people will buy it anyway, People love Pokemon. Sword and Shield, as well as Scarlet and Violet have both sold 20+ Million Copies. They are also among the most sold games in Japan currently.

I'm also on the train that we will keep most, if not all of 3rd party characters, with the Newcomer list leaning more 3rd party than people might expect, so I think having some Nintendo characters that people would buy (So Nintendo can keep all the profit from that DLC Pack) would be vital

So I think they could look at both Gen 8 and Gen 9 and pick a Pokemon based on what people have shown to actually like for the Base Roster

Personally from what I've researched, I would go with Dragapult. It's a Ghost Dragon Pokemon that shoots Missiles, and I believe won the poll for Most popular Gen 8 Pokemon, and still is popular in Gen 9. That sounds cool to me even as someone that currently doesn't play Pokemon, and Pokemon fans like it. There's other options like Toxicrity from Gen 8, and I've also seen Tinkatron and Meowscarda for Gen 9. They could even go back and do Decidueye based on it's Arceus form, though I doubt that option
 

MasterCheef

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Eevee would be amazing. I'll admit I'm not into Pokémon at all, but the cute creatures are the ones that appeal to me the most. Smash leans too much towards the "cool" ones for my taste. Which is why I'm sad Jigglypuff and Pichu are at the highest stakes for being cut.

I also don't see Eevee's chances being too high unfortunately. Recent Starters will almost always be Pokémon's priority.

Pachirisu and Buneary for Smash :love:
what about ; Iron Valiant = Pokemon ?
 
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Louie G.

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My problem isn't with Meowscarada itself, I just don't understand why people think we'll get a Gen 9 mon. Gen 9 will be old news by the time Smash 6 is out. If the project plan was finished late 2023, chances are the Smash team has plenty of time until a Gen 10 mon is revealed, either to the public or to Sakurai in private.
You're right, but for now I just find it more fun to work with what we have rather than hypothetically leave a big fat blank space on the roster.

Gen 10 will obviously happen at any given point but in the meantime I'm just humoring the possibility, assuming that what we see now is all there is until further notice. And Gen 8-9 did sell incredibly well, so I guess that's a point in favor of at least bringing over some meaningful content. Probably stages.
 
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RileyXY1

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My problem isn't with Meowscarada itself, I just don't understand why people think we'll get a Gen 9 mon. Gen 9 will be old news by the time Smash 6 is out. If the project plan was finished late 2023, chances are the Smash team has plenty of time until a Gen 10 mon is revealed, either to the public or to Sakurai in private.
I already mentioned the possibility that going for Gen 10 might lead to another Roy situation where a character appears in Smash before their game is even out, as there is a possibility that Smash 6 comes out in 2025 but we don't see Gen 10 until 2026. And besides, the project plan might have been completed already and a Gen 10 mon might have missed out this time like how ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 missed out on getting reps in Ultimate's base roster.
 

Zerp

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I almost feeling like beating up some Pokemons now.




Let's be honest; Barret in Smash over Sephiroth, one of the most iconic video game villains of all time? Just because he's black?

Not anywhere near as satisfying.
Stop that please. Perhaps you missed my earlier message but we're done with that discussion for now. It'd be best to talk about something other than that.

Are people generally for Ogerpon? I fear she might have missed the boat
Not entirely sure what other people think either honestly. As for myself, yeah, Ogerpon's cool, I'd be all for it if she got in. Gen 5 remake is probably right around the corner and that will change things, but out of the (current) likely Pokemon Scream Tail and her are my personal favorites.
 

Wonder Smash

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Stop that please. Perhaps you missed my earlier message but we're done with that discussion for now. It'd be best to talk about something other than that.
I was talking about something else other than that. I even made a few more posts after that that had nothing to do with that.
 
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Nabbitfan730

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View attachment 384794

This entire sentence is just baffling
?

Like I'm sorry but it's genuinely embarrassing that there isn't a single black character on a roster of 89 without resorting to like, alts for Villager. Especially when characters like Doc Louis, Marina, and Twintelle exist from the Nintendo side alone, or even Timerra if they want to forego Alear for a different Engage character (I'd mention Basilio and Flavia, as well as Dedue too as far as prominent black Fire Emblem characters, but the former two would end up being the fourth and fifth fighter from Awakening alone, and Dedue is sadly way down the pecking order for additional Three Houses characters considering the House Leaders exist).
But at the same time... how pathetic is it that PlayStation All-Stars, of all games, managed to get a black character before Smash Bros?
It really isn't. Maybe from a certain point of view but that lack of it never stopped Smash being highly regarded for its roster even more to Playstation All-Stars. It didn't stop from me getting into Smash then and certainly won't stop me now.

I have no issue with this list, Marina and Twintelle would be cool to see but i would prefer these characters get in for with virtues beyond skin color. The Black character in PSASBR, did he get in because he's black or something more notable?

Wonder may be crude with his reasoning but he is right in a sense the big draw is seen gaming icons clash above else and LGBT/PoC unfortunately don't have much notable to create a big draw beyond said characteristics.

I don't see how alts don't count either when the alts variations with different at based on characters were virtually avatars like Villager, Mii, Inkling, Steve etc who can essentially represent any color. Pretty good form of representation there,

I cannot stress enough how important it is that when it comes to issues around diversity that the straights, the whites, the Cisgenders and anyone else that's privileged enough to be represented at large please sit down, shut up and listen instead of trying to shoot it down.
Ok, what if i wasn't white and still disagree with the discussion at hand? Am i too "privileged" to have a say as well?
 
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Swamp Sensei

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?




It really isn't. Maybe from a certain point of view but that lack of it never stopped Smash being highly regarded for its roster even more to Playstation All-Stars. It didn't stop from me getting into Smash then and certainly won't stop me now.

I have no issue with this list, Marina and Twintelle would be cool to see but i would prefer these characters get in for with virtues beyond skin color. The Black character in PSASBR, did he get in because he's black or some more notable?

Wonder may be crude with his reasoning but he is right in a sense the big draw is seen gaming icons clash above else and LGBT/PoC unfortunately don't have much notable to create a big draw beyond said characteristics.

I don't see how alts don't count either when the alts variations with different at based on characters were virtually avatars like Villager, Mii, Inkling, Steve etc who can essentially represent any color. Pretty that good form of representation there,



Ok, what if i wasn't white and still disagree with the discussion at hand? Am i too "privileged" to have a say as well?
Mods already said to stop.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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I get the feeling Gen 9 would be skipped, but if we did get a Gen 9 Pokemon it'd be between Meowscarada, Ogerpon and Gholdengo. Though my personal favourite Gen 9 Pokemon for Smash would be Palafin. The idea of a superhero in Smash sounds like good moveset potential to me.
 

Ivander

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Look. It is quite possible for them to go to Gen 10 for a Pokemon character. But..I mean...
  • It's sad enough we won't get a Gen 2 Pokemon that isn't Pichu.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 3 Pokemon.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 5 Pokemon.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 8 Pokemon.
  • And it'll be sad to miss a Gen 9 Pokemon when there are some pretty cool picks that would be great for Smash Bros.
How about for once, we get 2 Pokemon Newcomers? If we're to get a Gen 10 Pokemon, can we get a Gen 9 Pokemon with them? That isn't simply a Scream Tail echo for Jigglypuff?
 

Zerp

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I was talking about something else other than that. I even made a few more posts after that that had nothing to do with that.
I'm aware, it's just that one I quoted was after the little stopping point, so I'm just making sure the former thing doesn't keep getting brought up.

?




It really isn't. Maybe from a certain point of view but that lack of it never stopped Smash being highly regarded for its roster even more to Playstation All-Stars. It didn't stop from me getting into Smash then and certainly won't stop me now.

I have no issue with this list, Marina and Twintelle would be cool to see but i would prefer these characters get in for with virtues beyond skin color. The Black character in PSASBR, did he get in because he's black or some more notable?

Wonder may be crude with his reasoning but he is right in a sense the big draw is seen gaming icons clash above else and LGBT/PoC unfortunately don't have much notable to create a big draw beyond said characteristics.

I don't see how alts don't count either when the alts variations with different at based on characters were virtually avatars like Villager, Mii, Inkling, Steve etc who can essentially represent any color. Pretty that good form of representation there,



Ok, what if i wasn't white and still disagree with the discussion at hand? Am i too "privileged" to have a say as well?
I understand the desire to respond, these kinds of topics are important and there are discussions to be had, but this is not the time for it, sorry. I'm not even opposed to the topic coming back in the future, but right now we should all collectively move onto something else. Please take this over to DMs or something if you must continue, we're going to talk about other things here.

So what you're saying is...

View attachment 384817

...there's a chance.

Let me dream
Honestly? If Gen V's remake is the current game when the next smash gets revealed, Genesect's probably a frontrunner for Pokémon. I don't think that's truly a pipedream.


On another note, when do you suppose we'll get the update to be compatible with Sora's amiibo releasing Friday?

Tomorrow?
Thursday?
Friday, the day of?

Surely, they can't do the update AFTER....
That is a fantastic question, I'd guess the day of?
 

CapitaineCrash

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Well, we got both Pokemon Trainer and Lucario in Brawl. I feel like the situation is a bit different now, but maybe there's a possibility of adding a Pokemon from the previous generation on top of the most current one at the time of release?

I guess it boils down to whatever is inspiring Sakurai - truth be told, if they're onto Gen 10 and they want a Pokemon from there then I don't know why Sakurai would fall back on someone like Meowscarada unless he was really captivated by the idea. Pokemon Trainer was a novel concept so it was probably being driven more by that than anything else. So it'd have to be a pretty significant, inspiring case... As far as Gen 9 goes I've been digging Ogerpon from what I know about them, maybe he'd be into the mask thing.

Or something from Gen 5 if there's a remake, I dunno. FireRed was relevant when Brawl was being decided. Maybe it's finally Zoroark's time to shine...
Personally even if Pokémon is obviously huge, I don't think double dipping is super likely because of the sheer amount of newcomers they have to work with. While I do think a Smash 6 could probably have more unique newcomers than Ultimate, I don't think we're going back to Brawl or 4 number of newcomers. Say there's 10 unique newcomers (not counting echoes), if you have 2 from Pokémon it removes a lot of variety. Also they have way more first party franchise to work with than in Brawl and 4 era (Animal crossing is much bigger, Xenoblade and Splatoon now exists, Advance wars made a comeback, you could make a case for some new ip like Astral chain and Ring fit, third party could arguably gets more stuff).
 

Swamp Sensei

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Look. It is quite possible for them to go to Gen 10 for a Pokemon character. But..I mean...
  • It's sad enough we won't get a Gen 2 Pokemon that isn't Pichu.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 3 Pokemon.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 5 Pokemon.
  • It's sad enough we missed out on a Gen 8 Pokemon.
  • And it'll be sad to miss a Gen 9 Pokemon when there are some pretty cool picks that would be great for Smash Bros.
How about for once, we get 2 Pokemon Newcomers? If we're to get a Gen 10 Pokemon, can we get a Gen 9 Pokemon with them? That isn't simply a Scream Tail echo for Jigglypuff?
Honestly, Pokemon games are being made at such a fast rate that it's not feasible to give it a Pokemon for every generation.
 

Wonder Smash

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What is everybody's favorite company crossovers in Smash? And which ones they want to see that hasn't happened yet?

Nintendo vs SEGA will always be mine. Even if it's not the best representation of their console wars, at least it's got Mario and Sonic.

Next game, I hope it's Namco vs Tecmo. These two companies always seemed like a good match, especially when it comes to their fighting games (Tekken and Dead or Alive).
 
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SPEN18

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Pokemon has such fantastic evergreen options; whether it would be in addition to or in place of something from the most recent gen, it would be a massive shame to simply not consider them. It just seems like such a slam dunk when it comes to adding an older favorite; since stuff like Eevee is always in fashion, you're not even losing much if anything in terms of directing attention to the current games.
 

NintenRob

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.....and Incineroar had moves to remind you it's a cat with claws. Not to mention the fire belt blatantly being used for Down Special.

Anyone that says you could just give Incineroar's moveset to Zangief or Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven have neither played as Incineroar once in their life out of spite and nor have ever touched Street Fighter or Rhythm Heaven to know their movesets would not at all be the same.
I debated very heavily with myself whether this was worth responding to given that we both have very clear and very opposing views on the character. But I'll bite

But looking over the moveset, no Incineroar does not use it's claws. It occasionally uses his hands. But he's not doing claw stuff with his hands. He's not slashing with his claws. He stabs forward with his hand but anyone could do that, his hands being a claw does not enhance that move in anyway

It reminding you of a cat is subjective but personally, no it's moveset does nothing to remind me of a cat.


And for revenge? I guess? Yeah the animation does use the fire belt. But Max Brass does something similar in ARMS, it's just a buff up move.


I'll admit, never played Street Fighter. But I do play as Incineroar from time to time in Smash, I play as everyone in Smash. And I standby that Incineroar does not do enough as a Pokémon to distinguish himself from something "The Rock" and any pro wrestler could do in the fictional world of Smash.



That's my Incineroar speel/vent.
 

Zerp

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Honestly, Pokemon games are being made at such a fast rate that it's not feasible to give it a Pokemon for every generation.
My one true pipe dream is TPC paying a studio to make a Pokémon platfighter. Not that other IPs can't do this too but Pokémon has such a wealth of unique designs that it'd have soooooo much potential.

What is everybody's favorite company crossovers in Smash? And which ones they want to see that hasn't happened yet?

Nintendo vs SEGA will always be mine. Even if it's not the best representation of it, at least it's got Mario and Sonic.

Next game, I hope it's Namco vs Tecmo. These two companies always seemed like a good match, especially when it comes to their fighting games (Tekken and Dead or Alive).
I'm torn between Nintendo + SEGA and Nintendo + Capcom, and for what I'd like to see, I'd personally really like Arc System Works vs... anything else really lol. In the context of Smash I guess I'd say Arc System vs Nintendo.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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The next Smash should allow smoking
A game where Kiryu and Snake just casually share a smoke outside on a busy bridge or something has to be one of my most wanted character interactions. I know it’s small and random but it would be such a vibe.
 

SPEN18

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Also, I cannot say I want him in Smash, but I do unironically like Garbodor. He makes me smile.

--

Ngl, I'm picturing it now, and it's honestly pretty gosh darn funny to think about. Like, the motorbike is at a complete stop with the engine still running... and then it just rockets into the air. XD
Didn't think of it when I was making my previous posts, but I wonder if Excitebiker could get some kind of a tire bounce from one of his aerials if using it while landing, say Fair, Bair, and/or Dair. The bike tilts forward or back with a hitbox on the tire; if you hit the ground while using it then you bounce, reactivating the hitbox. To make it actually useful, maybe make it so you can combo out of the presumably small knockback it would cause. The pogo move Ridley wishes he had.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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I debated very heavily with myself whether this was worth responding to given that we both have very clear and very opposing views on the character. But I'll bite

But looking over the moveset, no Incineroar does not use it's claws.
It literally uses its retractable hind claws for a sweetspot for the F-Smash and back air.

Not even going to continue since you didn't actually do reaearch.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I'll admit, never played Street Fighter
I'll say it here since I main Zangief.

Zangief would play nothing like Incineroar and the similarities are simply aspects of the grappler archetype.

Lariats are common get off me tools in grapplers.
 
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NintenRob

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Guynamednelson

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Alright, fair enough.

But either way, if Pichu isn't enough proof that what Smash fans want does NOT line up with TPC's marketing, the possibility of skipping two gens is.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I'll say it here since I main Zangief.

Zangief would play nothing like Incineroar and the similarities are simply aspects of the grappler archetype.

Lariats are common get off me tools in grapplers.
There's also the fact Zangief would be playing like Zangief. As in how he plays in Street Fighter with the same light/medium/heavy gimmick, non-changeable trajectory of jumps, and button commands just like Ryu and Ken do.

Oh, and auto-turnaround as of Ultimate.
 
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