Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[HansShotFirst20]

I don't think I could've tolerated Crashboards, unfortunately. ...Yeah sadly I'm in the camp that just doesn't see the appeal of Crash, never grew up with him that much aside of a few spin-off games and I'm vehemently against an Activision-Blizzard character.

Crash is just Activision, not Activision-Blizzard.

 

[N3ON]

Crash is just Activision, not Activision-Blizzard.

Activision-Blizzard is the parent company of Activision. That'd be like saying Spider-Man is just Marvel, not Disney.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Activision-Blizzard is the parent company of Activision. That'd be like saying Spider-Man is just Marvel, not Disney.

Wait was it a merger? I thought it was just Activision buying Blizzard

 

[Calamitas]

So I was thinking of the ARMS Classic Mode and I thought a route focusing on charqcters who attack using a reach (Simon, Richter, Zamus, Ivysaur, etc) but, honestly, I’d like to see this:

Switch Smash
Opponents are based on Switch games that released in chronological order

Round 1
Great Plateau Sheikah Tower

Round 2
Morai Towers

Round 3
News Donk City

Round 4
Saffron City

Round 5
Tortimer’s Island

Round 6
Guar Plains

Final Match
Rathalos

You know, that does remind me of a pretty baseless but nonetheless thought I had about Fighter Pass 2. Assuming that it is exclusively first-party (not too likely, I know, but let's humor the thought for a moment), what if it went backwards in terms of picking its fighters from Nintendo's consoles? Like, we begin with Switch, then get one from Wii U/3DS, then one from Wii/DS, then Gamecube/GBA, then N64/Gameboy, before we finally end on SNES. That's admittedly leave out NES, but it'd still make for a promising line-up.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Predicting the course of events:

- No people claiming to have leaks until May (pretty much every 'credible' leaker got killed by Byleth and ARMS anyway)
- Once May rolls around, a ****ton of 4chan 'leak' posts will pop up claiming they know the ARMS character, with a couple more characters tacked on
- Since there are only like 5 possibilities for which ARMS rep gets in, a lot of these posts will end up being right, and each character's support group will take the post that 'confirms' their character and run with it.
- FP7 rolls around and everyone gets to be disappointed again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The one thing that annoys me about Isabelle in Smash...

Why doesn't she have her voice?

Ok, I get why the Villager is silent, but she has that gibberish voice. They even used it in her trailer! So why can't she speak in the game?

Because she's probably a low effort character. Sorry for her fans. Can't make the situation prettier than it is.

 

[osby]

Because she's probably a low effort character. Sorry for her fans. Can't make the situation prettier than it is.

That doesn't make any sense when all the other clones have their voices.

It might be simply due to how her creators' want her to be portrayed (as in, they don't want her to shout when hit or something like that).

 

[SKX31]

Wait was it a merger? I thought it was just Activision buying Blizzard

Practically a 50 / 50 merger - albeit Activision has 52 % and is thus the stronger partner. Blizzard and Activision officially function relatively independent to each other. Further emphasized by the fact that King (Candy Crush, also a part of A-B) operate on their own most of the time. However, the top brass can and has pushed for company-wide strategies and changes within Blizzard. Most notoriously microtransactions.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Most of my beef with Activision-Blizzard came about because of the incident last year, which tainted my entire view of the company and their works. Yes, I'm aware Crash was created a long time before he was bought out by Activision, has nothing to do with the trash-heap that is modern Blizzard and I should probably let go of this petty hatred against Crash, but it's safe to say Crash is far from my most wanted list. I tried the N. Sanity Trilogy but it just didn't click with me at all. I might reconsider it, but I doubt it since I've too much in my backlog to try out the game again at the moment.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think it should serve as a reminder in terms of Activision-Blizzard that as a company, they are more than the people that call the shots in the political sense. I myself disliked what happened when it came to Blitzchung and the Hong Kong protests, but I think it should be something to remember...the game developers, the folks who create the games heavily disagreed with those actions. It doesn't mean that they are going to quit their jobs and their main way of supporting their families (which I think is an unreasonable way to combat the actions taken by their superiors), but at the very least they did not simply believe "Well, boss man said it, looks like it's ok by me then". Even Jeff Kaplan came out and said he disagreed with it.

Continuing to enjoy products like Crash, or Overwatch and others also supports the people who created Crash and Overwatch and continue to bring enjoyment to people, not just the big wigs.

I do also think it's interesting that fans only go after Activison Blizzard, as if other companies (Nintendo included) don't act in similar ways regarding different topics. By no means do I agree with what the big shots at AB did, but I'm also not going to let that deter me from enjoying Crash Bandicoot or Overwatch. Frick, I'd even want Crash AND Tracer in Smash, because the characters themselves are pretty cool.

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. Not really looking to derail the thread into something political (Even though most of life is).

 

[blackghost]

I don't really think we're gonna get more than one ARMS character as our upcoming Fighter, anyway. I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE, but I quite heavily doubt it because it'd either be giving powers to people who shouldn't have it, or take away what makes them them in favor of shoehorning in extra characters. And this thought experiment is pretty evocative of that. If these "compromises to fit more characters in because, well, they have the same gimmick so it's fine right?" don't fly for your most wanted's series, how could it for ARMS?

And just to be on the safe side, with Crash I can't even think of a fourth character who could fit. Fake Crash, Coco, and... we get stuck. With Lloyd, the same issue happens, where he always has one sword put away and fights like Kratos or Zelos. And Frisk only has one character they could work with, Chara. Paper Mario might outright have 0 characters: Luigi is the closest thing, and he doesn't use hammers or partners. Peach and Bowser would be atrocities in a Paper Mario moveset.

exactly this. what if we got dante as dlc and they make vergil a costume? Or what if when cloud came out in 4 sephiroth was an alt? Thats just a no. I really only think this suggestion is coming up because most people havent played arms and the smash playerbase wouldn't do this to characters they traditionally care about.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Finally things are back to normal.

Anyways I thought it through with the ARMS rep. I'm at this rate thinking it'll be Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as an echo. Its rather odd that they both had bigger screens then the others when the direct was showing who'd be next. They didn't show who it was right away given COVID-19 halted development.

Springtron I also predict will take Spring Man's place as an assist.

What do you guys think?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And on the other hand, you know who else has differing personalities? Daisy, Dark Samus, Falco, Luigi, Ganondorf, Dark Pit, etc. Didn't stop them from being implemented as very similar clones, even if they later got differentiated.

Personality doesn't count for a lot when it has a history of failing to spare a character from becoming a facsimile.

What personality definitely will factor into are the non-gameplay related things that come afterwards, like taunts, idles, and victory stuff. But it having an effect past that isn't something that can be said with certainty.

None of these characters are or were alternate costumes, and as such were allowed to animate much differently even in battle. The only clone character to be implemented without characterization changes is Luigi, who's personality was "literally just Mario" at the time.

Also, I literally just gave an example of when a character's personality factored into gameplay.

But somehow...not a greater disservice than not being playable at all.

Not represented > not represented correctly because in this situation they still have a chance of being represented correctly.

Anyways I thought it through with the ARMS rep. I'm at this rate thinking it'll be Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as an echo. Its rather odd that they both had bigger screens then the others when the direct was showing who'd be next.

I could be wrong, but I think the exact same footage has been used in an ARMS trailer before.

 

[blackghost]

i dont see the point in making extra work to go into a games files and alt an assist trophy into something else. which is why i think springman is out. I think we are looking at ribbon girl, min-min or dr.coyle.

and im not in favor of a composite character. just think it is a disservice for the game's characters representation.
i can also easily see Sakurai making a joke that "Springman was already here, maybe his chance will come next time"

i also dont think this pass will have more than one more Nintendo only character on it and i do think it will be third parties due to a combination of more attention and the business gains as a company Nintendo can make on getting characters outside the company. i do think the virus impacted the order they wanted to develop these characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

i dont see the point in making extra work to go into a games files and alt an assist trophy into something else. which is why i think springman is out. I think we are looking at ribbon girl, min-min or dr.coyle.

It'd take, like, 2 seconds though:

if(Spring Man is being played)
{
____Spring Man's Assist Trophy is disabled;
}

Yeah it's pseudo code but the actual code probably won't look much different. On the other hand, these are probably famous last words and I'm not a developer on the project I guess I can't know that for certain. It seems like a really simple task though.

EDIT: If we were to give Spring Man a different skin instead of removing him then just replace "is disabled" with "uses the Springtron model". That would take a bit more work since you'd have to make a Springtron model.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Springtron being a replacement is a lot more work than disabling, simply put. That's an all new model, mapping each animation so it works correctly. It's also scrapping a complete AT just for the sake of it. Now, Springtron would actually be a great idea in the next game for a replacement AT. Same purpose and all. Sometimes AT's don't even get obvious replacements regardless. Animal Crossing has had 3 different AT's and absolutely none of them are remotely similar at all. One's an interface screw of sorts, and it's more background. The next one is throwing out healing items. The last one actually can KO you by kidnapping you essentially.

...Then again, it's like the only series to even do that, isn't it?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Let's play a game. The "Arms Fighters can share a moveset" game.

Your most wanted gets in BUT

• They share the slot with 3 other characters from their game (NOT series)
  • Your favorite character is not top billed, and whenever the moveset has to be compromised to work they always end up worse off than the others.
• They must use the same moves
  • If one of them can't feasibly pull off a move then it's not allowed in their moveset,
  • They only have different voice lines and victory animations; their idle animations are slightly tweaked at best
• None of them can have any gameplay elements that the others don't have
  • Additionally, because there's already 4 models in one slot, none of the characters can have alternate palettes that include model changes. Strictly recolours only.

With these in mind;

1. How much does your most wanted lose in the process?
2. What do you pick for their -ONE- alternate palette?
3. Are you happy that they're in even if it means this is the best they'll ever get (ie they'll never be split off into clones, they might miss out on amiibo, etc)

My most wanted loses the potential for the best alt costumes in the game but I guess they get to share with their game's 15th (out of 18) most forgettable party member and the avatar in both male and female versions? There aren't any other dual gun/dual sword users so they have to double up the avatars who can use any weapon type. Ghost Factory and Shadowstrike are lost but they have equivalents in Ghost Walker and Back Slash, and Sliding Slinger gets to live as well. Alternate palette is the Ultra Regal version of her default since it's the closest to what her alternate costume would be.

I don't want a Phog amiibo, man. Phog sucks.

Well, I'd chime in but so many have already listed numerous characters that this would work perfectly for. Sora, Phoenix Wright, Arle, Isaac, Dante, etc. Sora gets Roxas, Ventus, Xion. Phoenix Wright gets Apollo, Edgeworth, and Athena. Arle gets Amitie, Ringo, and Ally. Isaac gets Felix, Garret, and Jenna. Dante gets Nero, Lucia, and Vergil.

My personal wish is for Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Leon Kennedy, and Claire Redfield, maybe it'd be more of a two and two with Chris and Leon sharing one slot and Jill and Claire sharing the other. Still, if push came to shove, I'd rather see them all combined in a heartbeat than have any one of them not in the game at all.

This would even work perfectly for pre-existing characters like Ness, Lucas, Megaman, Sonic, and Captain Falcon, albeit with maybe a little less or more than 4. Megaman gets Roll, Protoman, and Bass. Sonic gets Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow. Ness gets Paula and Poo, Lucas gets Kumatora, Captain Falcon gets Dr. Stewart, Jody Summer, and Pico, as well as a Black Shadow echo with a Blood Falcon alt.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh, Crashboards is over? Anyway MIN MIN FOR THE WIN WIN

Got a legit question for ARMS players. The regular party crash they’re having rn of Spring Man vs Ribbon Girl is different from the Party Crash Bash series, right? The one that ended with Min Min vs. Ninjara and Min Min won?

cause if that’s the case I still maintain Min Min w/Ninjara echo since they might wanna fill all 10 remaining WoL placeholders in one go with this supposed final pass

 

[Ridrool64]

On DLC in Classic Routes, I think it’s actually a possibility given the Cuphead Clause.

Let’s say Crash gets in and has a 5th generation themed Classic Route. If you do have Banjo and Kazooie’s Challenger Pack, you fight them, but if you don’t, you fight the cast of DK64 instead.

A route entirely composed of DLC probably wouldn’t fly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That's an all new model, mapping each animation so it works correctly

And how is this any more work than the stage cameos we're getting?

 

[HansShotFirst20]

All these people arguing over whether Springman's AT deconfirms him, when his toothpaste hair should be deconfirmation enough.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This would even work perfectly for pre-existing characters like Ness, Lucas, Megaman, Sonic, and Captain Falcon, albeit with maybe a little less or more than 4. Megaman gets Roll, Protoman, and Bass. Sonic gets Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow. Ness gets Paula and Poo, Lucas gets Kumatora, Captain Falcon gets Dr. Stewart, Jody Summer, and Pico, as well as a Black Shadow echo with a Blood Falcon alt.

I don't want Proto Man or Bass as alternate costumes of Mega Man. This is something that'd bother me and only me, but Proto Man and Bass don't have access to the Mega Upper, instead using Blues Strike and Crescent Kick. They're also both taller than Mega Man in Super Smash Bros. because they use their actually good original designs. 8-bit Bass looks silly as it is. Please don't subject me to 8-bit Bass in 3D. lol
EDIT: Also Mega Man's taunts don't fit Roll in the slightest. Not that they fit Mega Man either but...

Tails without flight and Knuckles without gliding are a weird prospect. I don't know how much I like that. Also, Shadow wouldn't be able to use his jet boots so he'd be running the same as Sonic even though he's not supposed to be as fast.

I could see Paula working if you traded out the bat for a frying pan, but I can't really picture Poo using a Yo-Yo. Perhaps they could replace it with a PSI attack? Not sure how that would work.

Kumatora is much taller and thinner than Lucas is. The idea of a short and squat Kumatora is funny, but not a great representation of the character.

 

[Garteam]

All these people arguing over whether Springman's AT deconfirms him, when his toothpaste hair should be deconfirmation enough.

Hey man, don't disrespect the blue pompadour.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Hey man, don't disrespect the blue pompadour.

I said it looks like it came out of a damn Colgate tube, you bubblegum-lookin-ass boy. It said recommended by 9/10 dentists, not 9/10 barbers. Now come and see if it stops ya teeth gettin knocked out by my glorious metallic Pompadour a la poing.

translator's note: 'a la poing' means 'in the style of a fist'

 

[HansShotFirst20]

DOUBLE POST

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey man, don't disrespect the blue pompadour.

All I'm saying is that not even his VA's prior role in Kamen Rider makes me like him

 

[Gentlepanda]

spring man looks like the winner of a nintendo power 'get your drawing in a nintendo game' competition

 

[Idon]

Yall will trash talk Springman's hair, but be completely fine with Min Min styling her 'do like this:

 

[Gentlepanda]

Yall will trash talk Springman's hair, but be completely fine with Min Min styling her 'do like this:
View attachment 268086View attachment 268087

the guy eldoon cut is an aesthetic

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not represented > not represented correctly because in this situation they still have a chance of being represented correctly.

I completely disagree with that.

In order to be represented correctly, an ARMS character needs to be an echo at minimum. I don't see any chance of the new ARMS character having more than one echo. Which means character 3, 4, etc, has no chance of being represented correctly.

And I do not agree on any level than not represented > not represented correctly.

Anyways I thought it through with the ARMS rep. I'm at this rate thinking it'll be Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as an echo.

Springtron I also predict will take Spring Man's place as an assist.

What do you guys think?

I think that's exactly what I hope will happen. No idea if it actually will though.

Hey man, don't disrespect the blue pompadour.

I would never do such a thing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

My personal wish is for Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Leon Kennedy, and Claire Redfield, maybe it'd be more of a two and two with Chris and Leon sharing one slot and Jill and Claire sharing the other. Still, if push came to shove, I'd rather see them all combined in a heartbeat than have any one of them not in the game at all.

Ooh, I was actually thinking that.

Never been into RE, but I saw a great Let's Play on YouTube that made me want to try out the RE2make, and I actually had a lot of fun with it. I feel, if you made the moveset mostly shooting, a Chris/Leon/Claire/Jill would be pretty fun. Pity they got a post-release Spirit board, so I think that cuts them wholesale.

I feel like this whole "make a bunch of alts" debate is also based on what abilities the characters are portrayed as having. I could easily see ARMS sharing a few alts since the game portrays everything as 'look at the boxers with stretchy arms!', the same way as Olimar/Alph are both pretty much 'little dude with pikmin' as an archtype. I feel like it would fail for characters which are not shown off under similar circumstances, for example the character art in Soul Calibur always shows the characters with their weapons in hand, so there's no way that Ivy could get Nightmare's kit (but Siegfried conceivably could, and that's be great).

I know that I'd much prefer a half-assed character to none at all. I've lived with Captain Ganondorf since Melee, and the now took away the lefthandedness from my main and turned my secondary from a cold queen to a bubblegum princess. Is it the best? No. But it is better than nothing. Seriously, I'd have taken Ridley as a Charizard echo just to get him into Sm4sh. Yes, having his own character is better, but anything is better than him being stuck as a stage hazard in one stage nobody plays because of the OP stage hazard.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And how is this any more work than the stage cameos we're getting?

It's already more work for the developers because it's a complete waste of their time, money, and effort.

It serves no tangible purpose beyond fan rules that don't exist whatsoever for the development team. The only reason for them to care(and throw away the work done just because of a silly fan rule) is Sakurai is actually making it the case. But he knows as well that it doesn't really do much at all. You click "disable it under specific condition" and move on. That's literally the brunt of that work.

Beyond that, let's note Spring Man's AT stuff. He has a full out jump animation, his own getting hurt animation, a rapid jab, and a full punch animation, plus a taunt no less. Now how many Stage Cameos(not hazards) would contain all of this? Especially when none of these would affect the players, meaning no hitboxes or hurtboxes. So it's not the same amount of work. A hazard, yes. But at that point, if Springtron isn't an alt, why not just make him a Hazard and not throw away the previous data as is? Spring Man could still appear on that stage too as an AT as long as Spring Man(assuming he's part of the ARMS character, if an alt situation), and Springtron can be his own thing without creating any issues or spending significantly extra time nor wasting data for the sole sake of a fan rule.

What benefit would replacing the AT even entail? What, a fan rule? It's not rocket science that Sakurai isn't gong to waste time on worrying about that kind of thing. Now what benefit is there to keep the AT existing? It means AT's aren't a death sentence. It means polls that happen will have people ignore these silly fan rules and be as honest as possible. It means when he gets data, people will have the best information and ideas they can muster. It only helps the game. Reality is, fan rules have done nothing but made speculation go downhill for ages on end. It kills hopes, it creates a toxic atmosphere(that's not to say they aren't useful information either. It also means people can think up new roster ideas they wouldn't normally due to a character they think are "not happening"). However, there's no denying the atmosphere is completely unfriendly due to fan rules. There's a huge difference between a game with roster rules and fan rules hurting speculation.

So I ask you; what's the real benefit of basically making a stage hazard to replace a perfectly working AT, while redoing every animation as well. And if you aren't sure how hard this can be, it's common knowledge that a lot of Model Replacement Mods are actually not remotely easy and people take a long time to iron out all the animation kinks. Now, yes, they are professionals with Sakurai's team. Sure. But it also took a long time to make Meta Ridley work, so it's already proven this isn't an easy task, even for them. New model changes are not remotely easy, no matter how professional you are. Replacing a model with another one takes a lot of time and energy and effort. Time they could be spending on making actual new material, not a very pointless AT change(and it's pretty pointless as it has practically no benefit to anyone but maybe some speculators).

 

[HansShotFirst20]

It's already more work for the developers because it's a complete waste of their time, money, and effort.

It serves no tangible purpose beyond fan rules that don't exist whatsoever for the development team. The only reason for them to care(and throw away the work done just because of a silly fan rule) is Sakurai is actually making it the case. But he knows as well that it doesn't really do much at all. You click "disable it under specific condition" and move on. That's literally the brunt of that work.

Beyond that, let's note Spring Man's AT stuff. He has a full out jump animation, his own getting hurt animation, a rapid jab, and a full punch animation, plus a taunt no less. Now how many Stage Cameos(not hazards) would contain all of this? Especially when none of these would affect the players, meaning no hitboxes or hurtboxes. So it's not the same amount of work. A hazard, yes. But at that point, if Springtron isn't an alt, why not just make him a Hazard and not throw away the previous data as is? Spring Man could still appear on that stage too as an AT as long as Spring Man(assuming he's part of the ARMS character, if an alt situation), and Springtron can be his own thing without creating any issues or spending significantly extra time nor wasting data for the sole sake of a fan rule.

What benefit would replacing the AT even entail? What, a fan rule? It's not rocket science that Sakurai isn't gong to waste time on worrying about that kind of thing. Now what benefit is there to keep the AT existing? It means AT's aren't a death sentence. It means polls that happen will have people ignore these silly fan rules and be as honest as possible. It means when he gets data, people will have the best information and ideas they can muster. It only helps the game. Reality is, fan rules have done nothing but made speculation go downhill for ages on end. It kills hopes, it creates a toxic atmosphere(that's not to say they aren't useful information either. It also means people can think up new roster ideas they wouldn't normally due to a character they think are "not happening"). However, there's no denying the atmosphere is completely unfriendly due to fan rules. There's a huge difference between a game with roster rules and fan rules hurting speculation.

So I ask you; what's the real benefit of basically making a stage hazard to replace a perfectly working AT, while redoing every animation as well. And if you aren't sure how hard this can be, it's common knowledge that a lot of Model Replacement Mods are actually not remotely easy and people take a long time to iron out all the animation kinks. Now, yes, they are professionals with Sakurai's team. Sure. But it also took a long time to make Meta Ridley work, so it's already proven this isn't an easy task, even for them. New model changes are not remotely easy, no matter how professional you are. Replacing a model with another one takes a lot of time and energy and effort. Time they could be spending on making actual new material, not a very pointless AT change(and it's pretty pointless as it has practically no benefit to anyone but maybe some speculators).

What an essay.

I hope Springman isn't the ARMS character, and the Springman AT is removed anyway. It doesn't make any sense, I just want everyone to be wrong.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sakurai has NEVER touched items or ATs during DLC. Bayo and SF had to wait until Ultimate before they could get proper ATs.

Because of that, I don't think he's going to bother adding Springtron. Even if it's small, it's extra work for something he could easily solve by not having the AT spawn when Spring Man is fighting, like how Knuckles won't spawn on Green Hill Zone because of his stage cameo. Alternatively, he could do nothing and leave the AT alone because it honestly doesn't matter that much anyway.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sakurai has NEVER touched items or ATs during DLC. Bayo and SF had to wait until Ultimate before they could get proper ATs.

Because of that, I don't think he's going to bother adding Springtron. Even if it's small, it's extra work for something he could easily solve by not having the AT spawn when Spring Man is fighting, like how Knuckles won't spawn on Green Hill Zone because of his stage cameo. Alternatively, he could do nothing and leave the AT alone because it honestly doesn't matter that much anyway.

And yet, Final Fantasy VII doesn’t even get an AT Aerith, Cait Sith or Sephiroth would have been great AT choices

... at least we got actual alternate palettes for Cloud... right?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Friendly reminder that Sakurai accomadated for a DLC stage from Smash 64 to remove a character in case people would be confused

Because this highly zoomed in image that doesn't animate

May confuse people when this is on the screen

If Sakurai is boring and adds Spring Man then all that while happen is that the game will recognize Spring Man is being used in the match and prevent him from appearing as an AT

 

[HansShotFirst20]

And yet, Final Fantasy VII doesn’t even get an AT Aerith, Cait Sith or Sephiroth would have been great AT choices

... at least we got actual alternate palettes for Cloud... right?

Never underestimate the power of stingy licensing. Rumor has it that Sakurai had to reaaally beg Squeenix to license Cloud for Ultimate without having him be DLC again (Square Enix looove making their guest characters DLC). Some suspect he was one of the later additions to the roster because of this, and this is where the rumors of the first DLC character being a Square character came from.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Never underestimate the power of stingy licensing. Rumor has it that Sakurai had to reaaally beg Squeenix to license Cloud for Ultimate without having him be DLC again (Square Enix looove making their guest characters DLC). Some suspect he was one of the later additions to the roster because of this, and this is where the rumors of the first DLC character being a Square character came from.

Judging by how Sakurai outright refused Square's initial suggestion for a DQ rep, only got 4 Heroes instead of 8 because of budget and time restraints, Sakurai outright saying Square left him with more freedom to work with Cloud's moveset than any prior third party and how Nintendo has been INCREDIBLY stingy over the years with voice acting, Nintendo are the stingy ones

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Never underestimate the power of stingy licensing. Rumor has it that Sakurai had to reaaally beg Squeenix to license Cloud for Ultimate without having him be DLC again (Square Enix looove making their guest characters DLC). Some suspect he was one of the later additions to the roster because of this, and this is where the rumors of the first DLC character being a Square character came from.

I actually would like to see the rumor article. I've heard of this before.

...I also want to see the article where Sakurai said Ken was an exception to general Echo design, though that's a query for anyone who wants to answer.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I actually would like to see the rumor article. I've heard of this before.

...I also want to see the article where Sakurai said Ken was an exception to general Echo design, though that's a query for anyone who wants to answer.

Idk if there's an article, I just heard it as a rumor.

As for Ken, I think he actually said it in the November direct where Ken was revealed.