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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Hadokeyblade

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Judging by how Sakurai outright refused Square's initial suggestion for a DQ rep, only got 4 Heroes instead of 8 because of budget and time restraints, Sakurai outright saying Square left him with more freedom to work with Cloud's moveset than any prior third party and how Nintendo has been INCREDIBLY stingy over the years with voice acting, Nintendo are the stingy ones
Makes me wonder how expensive it is to use the Art from FF.

They probably could have afford it if they used 3D renders of the party instead of the Nomura art.
 

venomthebest

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Alright, I keep seeing people debating whether the fan rules (specifically spirits and assist trophies deconfirm fighters). Well the logic behind those rules is that when they were making the base game, they would have been aware of who was going to be dlc characters so they would avoid putting them as other kinds of content in the game before they would be put in the game. Now when you think of it that way, those rules shouldn't apply to this current fighters pass (#2) because they have come up with the lineup well after the game has been released.

so any arms character that has some representation in smash already has just as much of a chance as any arms character in my opinion.
 
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D

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Let's play a game. The "Arms Fighters can share a moveset" game.

Your most wanted gets in BUT
  • They share the slot with 3 other characters from their game (NOT series)
    • Your favorite character is not top billed, and whenever the moveset has to be compromised to work they always end up worse off than the others.
  • They must use the same moves
    • If one of them can't feasibly pull off a move then it's not allowed in their moveset,
    • They only have different voice lines and victory animations; their idle animations are slightly tweaked at best
  • None of them can have any gameplay elements that the others don't have
    • Additionally, because there's already 4 models in one slot, none of the characters can have alternate palettes that include model changes. Strictly recolours only.
With these in mind;
  1. How much does your most wanted lose in the process?
  2. What do you pick for their -ONE- alternate palette?
  3. Are you happy that they're in even if it means this is the best they'll ever get (ie they'll never be split off into clones, they might miss out on amiibo, etc)
Bomberman characters are all designed with the idea that you could play them in the versus mode, meaning they're meant to be alts of each other. As a result, I win the **** out if I get multiple alts for Bomberman. This can include Max, the five villains in Bomberman 64, or even the cartoony eight heroes in Super Bomberman R.

To answer your questions
  1. I only gain from this.
  2. For one single alternate palette, it'd had to be Max. He's the cool edgy rival character like Protoman. I love him and was happy he made it to Super Bomberman R.
  3. Do you honestly think Bomberman has a chance NOW up against other assist trophies like Waluigi or Isaac who also aren't guaranteed? If no, I don't think he'd ever have a chance in a future Smash game, if one happens at all. Especially with how Konami is an enigma with their IPs. Hell yeah I'd be happy with this.
 
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StarBot

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It kills hopes
That's honestly your problem that you put your emotional baggage on a character that Sakurai thought would work better to be NPCs

Maybe if you guys didn't villainized the AT concept, there wouldn't be so much negativity

And you are forgetting that you guys want so many potential upgrades, and there is only 5 slots left, even if there where all upgrades in this pass, you guys would still be incredibly disappointed

Lowering expectations =/= killing your "hope"
 

♕Pretty Roger♕

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I don't get why most people that are against the multiple ARMS characters are either a Springman supporter or aren't ARMS fans at all yet they claim ARMS fans would be angry about it (it's impossible to make everyone happy no matter the character) we don't even know if there's a next smash game yet people claim they would be stuck as an alt forever, which to me means i can at least play as a character i like instead of clinging to hope for the rest of my live wishing for my character to make it as a standalone fighter.


Hoping for Ribbon Girl! ✨
 

Michael the Spikester

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Never underestimate the power of stingy licensing. Rumor has it that Sakurai had to reaaally beg Squeenix to license Cloud for Ultimate without having him be DLC again (Square Enix looove making their guest characters DLC). Some suspect he was one of the later additions to the roster because of this, and this is where the rumors of the first DLC character being a Square character came from.
So why is it we got:ulthero:then coming with four other alts? Square stingy amIrite?
 
D

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Interpret this any way you want.

By now the ARMS character should already be chosen so this wont decide anything. This only confirms that Springo and Ribbon Girl are the two most prominent faces for the game, which we already knew
 
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Goombaic

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Interpret this any way you want.

God are they really making it a mystery for no reason. I will forever question Sakurai and Nintendo over this.
 

Cosmic77

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By now the ARMS character should already be chosen so this wont decide anything. This only confirms that Springo and Ribbon Girl are the two most prominent faces for the game, which we already knew
Obviously this isn't deciding anything, but it's still interesting how they randomly bring back a new Party Crash following a Smash announcement and have Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as the featured characters.

Course, it could just be that they wanted the two most generic characters since they seem to be doing another push, getting people to try the game.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Its not an mystery. Its clear at this point that the reason they only announced an character from ARMS is due to development being halted by COVID-19.

More likely then not its Spring Man and maybe coming with Ribbon Girl as an echo fighter.
 

Cosmic77

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Its not an mystery. Its clear at this point that the reason they only announced an character from ARMS is due to development being halted by COVID-19.
Sakurai said a character was being halted in development because he was unable to meet with certain parties to discuss the character.

There's no way Sakurai wouldn't have met up with these people by now if this "big" character was intended to be first, nor would it be possible for him to have an ARMS character ready by June if he had to change plans and put his first character on the back burner due to the coronavirus. Odds are, ARMS was always intended to be first.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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arms is having a repeat of its very first event for the duration of the free period and there's no need to read any further into it
Yeah, it’s just an incentive to get newcomers to try it out. The ARMS character in Smash has already been decided by now
 

BZocky

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Interpret this any way you want.

Battle for Stardom?
Geno confirmed
 

Cutie Gwen

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arms is having a repeat of its very first event for the duration of the free period and there's no need to read any further into it
Gonna be wild seeing people jump in expecting pure 'skill based neutral' by taking 5 hours to reach the other side of the screen while the opponent goes up in their face as the way to play ARMS is pure rushdown
 

Mushroomguy12

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Friendly reminder that Sakurai accomadated for a DLC stage from Smash 64 to remove a character in case people would be confused

Because this highly zoomed in image that doesn't animate
View attachment 268093

May confuse people when this is on the screen
View attachment 268094

If Sakurai is boring and adds Spring Man then all that while happen is that the game will recognize Spring Man is being used in the match and prevent him from appearing as an AT
Also we have this.




At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Clearly Alfonzo will take over Spring Man's Assist Trophy when he's fighting.

 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I don't get why most people that are against the multiple ARMS characters are either a Springman supporter or aren't ARMS fans at all yet they claim ARMS fans would be angry about it (it's impossible to make everyone happy no matter the character) we don't even know if there's a next smash game yet people claim they would be stuck as an alt forever, which to me means i can at least play as a character i like instead of clinging to hope for the rest of my live wishing for my character to make it as a standalone fighter.
My opinion:
Not represented > not represented correctly because in this situation they still have a chance of being represented correctly.
Also, there's going to be another Super Smash Bros. game. They're not just gonna randomly end a highly lucrative series like this.

Interpret this any way you want.
If (big if) this decides anything it'll be who's the main costume, and that's assuming they take the composite character route.

There's no way Sakurai wouldn't have met up with these people by now if this "big" character was intended to be first, nor would it be possible for him to have an ARMS character ready by June if he had to change plans and put his first character on the back burner due to the coronavirus. Odds are, ARMS was always intended to be first.
I don't think they're working on the characters one at a time so it's feasible that they could swap the most done characters around if need be. However there's not really any indication that the delayed fighter was going to be in Fighters Pass 6 so there's not enough evidence to make a verdict on that. However, if Fighters Pass 7 includes a big blowout character I'll lean towards the idea that there was some order swapping.

Not that it matters anyway. We're still getting the characters.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Interpret this any way you want.

I wonder where all the people that said that ARMS doesn't have a face are now.

One of them's already flip-flopped from what I see.
 

Will

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Interpret this any way you want.

Interpret this any way you want.

 

Eldrake

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Interpret this any way you want.

We've been bamboozled. Turns out the ARMS character is actually Crash Bandicoot.
 

Hinata

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Interpret this any way you want.

arms is having a repeat of its very first event for the duration of the free period and there's no need to read any further into it
Yep, right down to having the exact same name for the event.

Hopefully this time Ribbon Girl wins, she was robbed last time.
 

wynn728

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So why is it we got:ulthero:then coming with four other alts? Square stingy amIrite?
Maybe because Square Enix realized that this would be the greatest opportunity to market the Dragon Quest series to the west so they're more willing to give more so they can get more back. Dragon Quest wasn't doing good at all in the west, so Smash Bros is the best way they can expose the series to the entire world. There's a reason why anytime Dragon Quest XI S was mentioned by Nintendo it was always followed up with Smash Bros.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Maybe because Square Enix realized that this would be the greatest opportunity to market the Dragon Quest series to the west so they're more willing to give more so they can get more back. Dragon Quest wasn't doing good at all in the west, so Smash Bros is the best way they can expose the series to the entire world. There's a reason why anytime Dragon Quest XI S was mentioned by Nintendo it was always followed up with Smash Bros.
The SquareEnix character's issues are rights based. Final Fantasy has rights holders everywhere for everything, and it's why it only gets the bear minimum. Dragon Quest was much less crazy to license, so it go the normal amount of stuff for a DLC character, except for the fact that the series composer doesn't let anyone use his music in games so he can sell more concert tickets. Thus the 8 songs. Considering SquareEnix has trouble getting Dragon Quest music that was probably quite the feat.
 

wynn728

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I don't get why most people that are against the multiple ARMS characters are either a Springman supporter or aren't ARMS fans at all yet they claim ARMS fans would be angry about it (it's impossible to make everyone happy no matter the character) we don't even know if there's a next smash game yet people claim they would be stuck as an alt forever, which to me means i can at least play as a character i like instead of clinging to hope for the rest of my live wishing for my character to make it as a standalone fighter.


Hoping for Ribbon Girl! ✨
For me I'm for Min Min or Twintelle. But these characters just won't work as the same character, even if they were part of the multiple-in-one-character design it just wouldn't be that interesting. Min Min has her parry kick and an ability where her left arm is permanently stays charged as long as she doesn't get hit, and her three signature ARMS are a dragon head, a curve shot, and a electrical heavy attack. There's a lot of creative potential for these moves, but you can't use any of these if we're getting a Bowser Jr situation. Same goes for Twintelle who can freeze time and have a frozen punch, homing attack as a bird, and a parasol as her signature ARMS. There's just so much creative potential that will just go to waste by combining many characters together.
 

Kotor

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So why is it we got:ulthero:then coming with four other alts? Square stingy amIrite?
I recall hearing something how Hero was suppose to be base roster but got pushed back to DLC because the DQ composer would've taken a big cut of the profits made by Ultimate, so Hero being DLC meant the composer would only get a cut from the DLC purchases.
 

Arcanir

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Judging by how Sakurai outright refused Square's initial suggestion for a DQ rep, only got 4 Heroes instead of 8 because of budget and time restraints, Sakurai outright saying Square left him with more freedom to work with Cloud's moveset than any prior third party and how Nintendo has been INCREDIBLY stingy over the years with voice acting, Nintendo are the stingy ones
Small correction (since I see this mistake a lot), but Slime wasn't Square's suggestion. The way the scenario played out was that Sakurai approached the DQ team with the intent of asking for Hero, but was willing to use Slime if they said no since he suspected there would be hurdles to using him. They ended up saying yes however, so that fallback option never came into play.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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That's honestly your problem that you put your emotional baggage on a character that Sakurai thought would work better to be NPCs

Maybe if you guys didn't villainized the AT concept, there wouldn't be so much negativity

And you are forgetting that you guys want so many potential upgrades, and there is only 5 slots left, even if there where all upgrades in this pass, you guys would still be incredibly disappointed

Lowering expectations =/= killing your "hope"
The villainization is "this role sucks". It's not about disconfirmation entirely. People hate not simply cause they're not playable, but it feels like a slap in the face too. Just like Mii costumes are some kind of butchering of a character. Which is more closer to what the AT issue is. People consider playable the most important role, and anything but can be a slap in the face. I agree this particular mindset is poor, but the series was made on "the biggest playable characters duke it out", so it's kind of the game's own design where this comes from.

But more importantly, the negativity comes more from shoving it in people's face that their favorite character has no chance. This is the issue people have. And when they're accused of being in denial? Well, what'd you expect people to act like? They're going to be quite aggravated.

So it doesn't mean if people like AT's or not. It's people refusing to even acknowledge things aren't that simple and DLC can change stuff as is. Spring Man actually being playable isn't really change expectations moreso than throwing a tack into the face of "lol not happening" people, something that improves speculation. When that's no longer a valid argument, that means it's less likely to come up. Of course, this is also solvable by people not worrying too much about roles and dropping the constant need to bring people's hopes down. ...So an unlikely scenario. They keep their expectations generally in check anyway. That's hardly an issue like you're making it to be.
 

Guynamednelson

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People consider playable the most important role, and anything but can be a slap in the face
It helps that fighter representation is also more attractive to outsiders. I don't think Melee would be responsible for FE localizations if Marth and Roy were just trophies, or over half the people that got into Xenoblade/Castlevania/Persona/DQ from Smash would do so if they just got spirits/ATs.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Wait...

Its all coming together. Said ARMS tournament was called Final Party Crash.

Next character is an ARMS rep and supposedly were also getting FP7 during digital E3.

The year when Ridley was revealed that April Fools was RidleyBoards and this year was CrashBoards...

It all adds up! FP7 and our E3 will be Crash Bandicoot!
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It helps that fighter representation is also more attractive to outsiders. I don't think Melee would be responsible for FE localizations if Marth and Roy were just trophies, or over half the people that got into Xenoblade/Castlevania/Persona/DQ from Smash would do so if they just got spirits.
Right. It makes sense why this mindset exists. The thing is, some are just happy to have anything. So it's not a consistent fanbase thing. Shovel Knight fans are happy he's an AT at all. Waluigi fans are far less happy with the role constantly being done. Isaac fans definitely were not happy, though some are at least satisfied in the high amount of content. It varies overall.

Of course, "AT's suck" is really not the same thing as these situations, and more what the issue was. That's the only demonization of the role at best. Cause believing characters who were basically consolation prizes cause they couldn't be playable to have a chance to be playable? It doesn't take much to think it's unlikely to happen. Sakurai is known for being stubborn, so the mindset does have logic behind it. Or basically the logic "it sucks this guy won't be playable" is far different from "this role is trash", anyway. One has precedent but acknowledges they're not a fan. The other is just unnecessarily negative, and it has nothing to do with realism or keeping expectations in check.

Hell, considering what you said, where the SMT content as is? That's certainly something that should have some Spirits at least. :/
 
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