Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sure Style Savvy has any kind of chance but that series is still my most-wanted first party. The aesthetic alone would be so fresh and I'm fond of non-fighting fighters.


Smash fans: we want a retro character with Nintendo presence so their series can get a boost!

[Terry Bogard, a character from the SNES-era with a big Nintendo presence has a trailer that was entirely retro and showed off his history, and because of this his series and company are already getting more attention, gets in]

Smash fans: not you

Terry when he sees he's in Smash after so long despite literally being the most deserving third party ever: "AWRIGH!"
Smash fans: *cry that Terry was bad*
Terry: "Hey, comonnn...."

 

[osby]

Terry when he sees he's in Smash after so long despite literally being the most deserving third party ever: "AWRIGH!"
Smash fans: *cry that Terry was bad*
Terry: "Hey, comonnn...."

You see, Terry has actual star power outside of US. That means he's anti-fanservice and a Sakurai pick.

 

[Zinith]

Edit: Wrong thread again...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You see, Terry has actual star power outside of US. That means he's anti-fanservice and a Sakurai pick.

He has star power everywhere, look at his series logo

 

[osby]

He has star power everywhere, look at his series logo

I can't believe Fatal Fury is just edgy Kirby.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Porky isn't really a fan demand as much as it is people acting like he's the only spiritless Nintendo character.

He's the only (major) villian of the OG Twelve's series that isn't in Ultimate in any way. Bowser, Jr, Plant, and Wario are Mario villians (the ending two somewhat), Rool for DK, Dorf for Zelda, TOO BIG and Dark Samus for Metroid, Wolf for Star Fox, no Kamek but Bowser and by extension Baby Bowser is a fighter, for Yoshi, Meta Knight and D3 for Kirb, Mewtwo for Pokemon. Even F-Zero, a racing game, gets their villians in the game, as spirits and one as an assist trophy. So why does Porky, a boss from subspace and an incredibly standout villlian, get gipped?

It's not that he's the only spiritless character, but the only major one. It leaves a gaping hole in the MOTHER spirits- they went all out in getting extensive fanservice for other regards but Porky is just absent for no real reason whatsoever.

I think another unfortunate roadblock for Sora is that other disney characters are so instrumental to his games, would they put Donald and Goofy in the game? (As spirits, in his stage or in his final smash obviously they wouldn't be playable) They so important to the games it'd be weird to see him without them, but it'd be equally weird to have Donald fricking Duck appear in Smash.

Personally I'd prefer to keep Disney's characters out of the game in any way. I'd rather get a half-complete fighter than Disney getting their OC in Smash- the day Micky gets in, Smash no longer is Smash but a sellout.

1. Variety Theory
Since the Fighter's Pass was sold as a bundle, and all 4 characters so far have been vastly different from each other, it makes sense to me that Nintendo intentionally considered variety so that those who ordered the Fighter's Pass as a whole will feel as if they got their bang for their buck by getting five unique fighters. This means that swordfighting characters, traditional fighting game characters, and (this one hurts me, because I want Crash) cartoony mascot platformers are all out of the running if variety theory is to be believed.

2. Region Theory
As stated a few days ago, I noticed a peculiar pattern in the Fighter's Pass. It seems as if every character chosen so far (bar Joker to my knowledge), has had their support concentrated heavily by region. Hero was quite obviously most popular in Japan while having lukewarm support in the West. Banjo was the opposite. But think back to 2016 when Sakurai said that Bayonetta was the most popular choice of Europe. I cannot prove this, but what if Banjo (the character I voted for) was carried by North America? This seems very plausible. Had it stopped there, I would not give this theory one thought, but the next character really catalyzed this theory for me, Terry. When I first heard the SNK leaks, I was angry because I thought NO ONE supported Terry, and he was just a Sakurai pick. But then it came to my attention that SNK is very popular in Latin America, so Nintendo most likely included him to please those fans. This means that as of now, Europe, Japan, North America, and Latin America have all had their regional pick added to the roster. This leaves Africa and Australia. But to my knowledge, gaming isn't very popular in Africa, so that means that if Region Theory is to be believed, then we should be looking toward Australia for speculation.

Any guesses?

The only other place I can think of is China and South Korea. They're big on games like Overwatch, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibilty we get Tracer still. I know she's kind of a meme-y pick, but not so elsewhere I'd presume; in addition, Sans got memed in as a mii costume so meming a fighter in isn't entirely absurd

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Fishbunjin for Smash.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Yeah, a lot of Smash fans backpadel a lot after a certain character's inclusion.

I remember people saying K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie would just be Bowser and Duck Hunt Echos if they got in. After they got in, the same people turn around and say "Oh my gosh they're so unique and I always wanted them." Lol!

I reckon they were more trollish jabs/insults at the characters rather than an example of backpedalling.

The echo fighters/clones comparison is spot on. Borderline searing hate for clones once upon a time but echo fighters are welcomed with open arms.

To an extent like BK and the speculation before their reveal. "Noone would remember or want them after all these years, they aren't popular" to basically "Nah, they're only popular within a small group (which is baseless), doesn't count, still not popular enough".

People will move the goalposts to suit their made up, arbitrary measures at any point in time and drive their misguided narratives, but that's fandoms and the Internet for you!

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I'm against the whole include sora but exclude disney thing, just ridiculous. Like, disney is gonna have their logo in their credits what's the point of not having a mickey mouse key chain. It's just being purists to go that far to expunge all disney from smash just for people to accept sora. Listen, sakurai said no non video game characters, but sometime games overlap with stuff outside, like mickey mouse being in game n watch (mentioned in smash already so much for purism.)
And for disney references, the main disney characters may as well get a reference since they are important to the games and story. Nothings gonna happen, it's not gonna break the game. Sakurai is free to bend his own rules if he chooses to like for cloud.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm against the whole include sora but exclude disney thing, just ridiculous. Like, disney is gonna have their logo in their credits what's the point of not having a mickey mouse key chain. It's just being purists to go that far to expunge all disney from smash just for people to accept sora. Listen, sakurai said no non video game characters, but sometime games overlap with stuff outside, like mickey mouse being in game n watch (mentioned in smash already so much for purism.)
And for disney references, the main disney characters may as well get a reference since they are important to the games and story. Nothings gonna happen, it's not gonna break the game. Sakurai is free to bend his own rules if he chooses to like for cloud.

But that's exactly what Sora is with the Crossovers he's been in.
He have the normal kingdom key Keyblade. Other Keyblades appears too.
There just no other Disney characters. And he's represented nicely all by himself through his famous skill and abilities-

 

[krokotopia101]

"OTHER characters are so instrumental to Sora's games?" (Incoming KH defender) but saying that is can literally be compared to other characters like Joker & Shulk. Only difference for Sora is that his Final Smash CAN BE without Donald & Goofy. On a storyline prespective, understandable. But gameplay-wise...no. Sora is VERY dependant without Donald & Goofy. His playstyles alone aren't dependant of them...at all. Like most Disney properties, gameplay-wise...they're just there. Trinity & limits are literally the only moves that Sora relies on assistance of Donald, Goofy, & other Disney properties...and even then Dream Eaters replaced them, and Sora can do Trinity by himself as seen in the game. I don't doubt any hurdles on Sora's chances, but his movesets are usually his own thing and nothing more. There're many original characters that can make up a 3rd of spirits & assist trophies.There're literally only 6 Disney characters actually relevant to Kingdom Hearts. Sora can make due without them. There're two (by the looks of things 3) games that have proven that point. Especially Donald & Goofy. Having them as spirits would be nice, but still can do without.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I've seen people go from slating how dumb an idea is to worshipping the choice when it gets into Smash all to try and justify it's inclusion.

There's also people who went from "yay more characters" to "LOL your character didn't get in" the moment the Grinch leak was confirmed fake.

 

[Sigman]

Me personally as a Sora supporter, get annoyed at people who are misinformed and assume what issues Sora has in getting in the roster. Now i'm not saying he doesn't have issues, he does, his character rights are owned by Disney and as we know they tend to be stingy when it comes to negotiations as we've seen recently with Sony and them. Like when people say "Sora is not a video game character cuz disney, 4head," that's a prime example of just pure ignorance.

Disney already worked with Sony before by allowing Q*bert in Wreck-It Ralph.

 

[SKX31]

We literally just got Banjo-Kazooie aka a third party character who almost exclusively appeals to core Smash fanbase.

As a counterargument: If Sakurai is in the DLC for the long haul (I got that impression from the B-K showcase, but nothing's confirmed) then I could see Nintendo reserving a couple DLC slots. Not just to reassure the core Smash fanbase, but also give them the room to go for a "What the f***?" pick (Like a MOBA pick).

The only other place I can think of is China and South Korea. They're big on games like Overwatch, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibilty we get Tracer still. I know she's kind of a meme-y pick, but not so elsewhere I'd presume; in addition, Sans got memed in as a mii costume so meming a fighter in isn't entirely absurd

Speaking off... MOBAs are HUGE in China (LoL / Dota 2 in that order. At least on PC.). Overwatch and other FPSes are also really big, alongside simulation games - those three genres are pretty much king there. South Korea loves LoL and Overwatch, but I haven't dug as deep there,

As for other regions: Nintendo's new President has said that his expansion plans aim for the Middle East and Southeast Asia too, but he admitted that that's a medium to long term project aimed at building the fanbases step by step. No rushing, in other words.

For the record - The Overwatch Switch port got a lot of attention over in China, as did Terry's and Sans' reveal. Sans' reveal especially, but Terry's got a lot of hype there too. No hard numbers (the numbers I could get was from a Chinese video site. Weibo - Chinese Twitter - doesn't display hard numbers on its videos) but it still seems positive. There's one Weibo user - who exclusively follows the Switch - with 1 million followes already, so the news have spread.

 

[Deleted member]

Terry when he sees he's in Smash after so long despite literally being the most deserving third party ever: "AWRIGH!"
Smash fans: *cry that Terry was bad*
Terry: "Hey, comonnn...."

Lol, it just take a free download of the PS4 demo for KoF XIV followed by a match as Terry on that thing to know Terry has an awesome moveset potential and can actually be way different from Ken.

Smash fans are indeed very petty with whoever gets in, based on my experience as a Dragon Quest/Crash Bandicoot fan and even someone who just got into KoF.

 

[Wunderwaft]

There's also people who went from "yay more characters" to "LOL your character didn't get in" the moment the Grinch leak was confirmed fake.

Unfortunately that's a common thought process within the fandom. People like to act like assholes and make fun of those who lost and didn't get their character. It happened all the way back since brawl when assist trophies were revealed, some people relished on the fact that a character they didn't like became an assist trophy and mocked those who wanted that character to be playable. It's been happening for so long and so rampant that I think it's sadly unlikely to change any time soon.

 

[BlueMonk]

Disney already worked with Sony before by allowing Q*bert in Wreck-It Ralph.

This movie is pretty much the biggest counter argument to Disney being unwilling to work with other companies, it also featured Bowser and Zangief. I think Eggman might have been there too.

 

[osby]

But that's exactly what Sora is with the Crossovers he's been in.
He have the normal kingdom key Keyblade. Other Keyblades appears too.
There just no other Disney characters. And he's represented nicely all by himself through his famous skill and abilities-

Remember Joker HAD TO summon Jack Frost and Lucifer, because he wouldn't represent Megami Tensei otherwise? Fun times.

People need to remember characters represent themselves first.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

But that's exactly what Sora is with the Crossovers he's been in.
He have the normal kingdom key Keyblade. Other Keyblades appears too.
There just no other Disney characters. And he's represented nicely all by himself through his famous skill and abilities-

I can think of one crossover, the final fantasy chibi game. What else is there.

 

[Nquoid]

At this point I'm basically thinking it's one of these five:

Leon/Jill - Resident Evil
Doom Slayer - Doom (these two more likely if it's at the game awards just because of synergy with inevitably goty noms)

Ryu Hayabusa - Ninja Gaiden
Heihachi/Other Tekken rep - Tekken (rewarding companies with long standing ties to Nintendo. Plus last huge NES icon/hype behind Street Fighter/KOF/Tekken crossing over again)

Tracer - Overwatch. (As someone said above, huge in regions that Nintendo are keen to get into, and Overwatch got pride of place at the start of the latest direct)

 

[Nekoo]

I can think of one crossover, the final fantasy chibi game. What else is there.

Final Fantasy Record Keeper
Final Fantasy Brave Exvius.
Aka the two final Fantasy Mobiles game, that, In 2019 got Sora/KH Cloud (for Brave Exvius) and Sora/Riku/Axel/Roxas (for Record Keeper) appear in those games. With their own abilities without any Disney Characters appearing

 

[Deleted member]

Remember Joker HAD TO summon Jack Frost and Lucifer, because he wouldn't represent Megami Tensei otherwise? Fun times.

People need to remember characters represent themselves first.

Yeah, a good number of people in the Smash fandom really need to be way more open minded with the moveset of many characters in general.

Because they tend to fall into the same problem of judging a moveset that could not even exist but really feel is what is going to happen to the point they deny any other option.
Seriously, just play more games and study the characters more. Erdrick wasn’t just a sword user, Ridley wasn’t a copy-paste of Charizard, Joker didn’t need these specific personas to work, Terry doesn’t need to be almost identical to Ken or Ryu and Piranha Plant could in fact get a strong moveset for Smash.

People overall should stop judging characters over first impressions without clear basis and be more open as people like you or I.

 

[Cyberfire]

I wouldn’t sleep on a Koei-Tecmo character making it in. Good ties to Nintendo, plenty of history, and arguably the biggest Japanese studio without a character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wouldn’t sleep on a Koei-Tecmo character making it in. Good ties to Nintendo, plenty of history, and arguably the biggest Japanese studio without a character.

Considering how highly people here spoke of Hayabusa I don't think you'll need to worry about people sleeping on him lol

 

[Nekoo]

My Only issue with Ryu Hayabusa is that...
We have a better Ninja at Capcom.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think Koei Tecmo and Level-5 have a pretty good chance in getting a character in there as some of the last few remaining Japanese third party companies without a character (that they own). I hope they do. Capcom and Namco will most probably get another character in there too.

 

[Cyberfire]

I think Koei Tecmo and Level-5 have a pretty good chance in getting a character in there as some of the last few remaining Japanese third party companies without a character. I hope they do. Capcom and Namco will most probably get another character in there too.

Yeah if I was a betting man, I’d pinpoint Koei, Capcom and Bamco as the remaining companies getting characters.

INB4 Sakurai announces Eggman, Wolverine and Rabbids

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My Only issue with Ryu Hayabusa is that...
We have a better Ninja at Capcom.

Ah yes.

The Capcom Ninja


Ibuki Street Fighter

 

[Nekoo]

Ah yes.

The Capcom Ninja


Ibuki Street Fighter

God damnit. She already ruined SFV don't make her ruin another game

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Final Fantasy Record Keeper
Final Fantasy Brave Exvius.
Aka the two final Fantasy Mobiles game, that, In 2019 got Sora/KH Cloud (for Brave Exvius) and Sora/Riku/Axel/Roxas (for Record Keeper) appear in those games. With their own abilities without any Disney Characters appearing

Interesting.

But that's exactly what Sora is with the Crossovers he's been in.

It does not necessarily mean that will be the case for smash bros. Smash Bros is a different level of involvement. The DLC includes a spirits and stages and the character takes center stage. He would get a trailer. His other crossovers are cameos.

It does show Sora crossover can be done without disney characters and it shows his keyblade does not need censorship as some people have suggested.

I would prefer however, that Disney be included, as that more accurately represents the franchise. Sakurai always seeks to portray franchises correctly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Interesting.

It does not necessarily mean that will be the case for smash bros. Smash Bros is a different level of involvement. The DLC includes a spirits and stages and the character takes center stage. He would get a trailer. His other crossovers are cameos.

It does show Sora crossover can be done without disney characters and it shows his keyblade does not need censorship as some people have suggested.

I would prefer however, that Disney be included, as that more accurately represents the franchise. Sakurai always seeks to portray franchises correctly.

Tbf there are plenty of original characters to pull from


Also jesus **** I just realized that means an Orginization XIII spirit might happen with alm 13 of those assholes fighting you at once

 

[Flyboy]

Look, I know people would probably get mad, but I'd lose my damn mind if they just randomly slapped Eggman on the roster

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Tbf there are plenty of original characters to pull from

But why go out of your way to avoid putting donald and goofy....

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, I know people would probably get mad, but I'd lose my damn mind if they just randomly slapped Eggman on the roster

Dude you KNOW people wouldn't get mad, they'd just include a ****ton of that SA2 fandub dialogue or even mod it in

 

[NoOtherPersona]

My Only issue with Ryu Hayabusa is that...
We have a better Ninja at Capcom.

Capcom has too many characters for strider to even be in the running he's there but he's competing with resident evil okami ace attorney etc

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Capcom has too many characters for strider to even be in the running he's there but he's competing with resident evil okami ace attorney etc

Which is why I have a suggestion.

A fighter pass with nothing but Capcom characters

*audiences cheer and world peace is achieved to celebrate my idea*

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

But why go out of your way to avoid putting donald and goofy....

Because I don't want that **** sullying my Smash Bros.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But why go out of your way to avoid putting donald and goofy....

More royalties and **** for Disney. Remember, Disney is so goddamn anal about copyright that they take down graves of children if a Disney character is on it, they'd demand significantly more for 2 of their most iconic characters

 

[SNEKeater]

Which is why I have a suggestion.

A fighter pass with nothing but Capcom characters

*audiences cheer and world peace is achieved to celebrate my idea*

I would be totally okay with that.

- Leon/Jill
- Dante
- Phoenix Wright
- Amaterasu
- Monster Hunter

I mean, for me there's few better options than that lineup, and I've never played Phoenix Wright or Monster Hunter games. All 5 would be really cool in my opinion.

 

[DarthEnderX]

To be fair, the Android 21 analogy is reasonable.
I'm not saying that I believe or disbelieve the idea of Sora even being eligible due to Kingdom Hearts being technically a spin-off of the Mickey Mouse franchise, but to dismiss that argument is fundamentally dishonest.

Thank you. I don't believe or disbelieve it myself, because I don't know how Nintendo views Kingdom Hearts on the subject. It's merely a theory. And I think pretending to not understand how that MIGHT be an issue, is just ignoring the issue.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there..in both of the games I mentioned Sora being licensed out, it was only Sora (and other original Kingdom Hearts characters), none of Disney's mainstays like Donald or Goofy. Smash Bros. could follow suit, just having the hidden Mickey Keychain (since that wouldn't be a big issue) as the sole mainstay Disney reference. Kingdom Hearts has enough original characters to fill a DLC Spirit roster with the likes of Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Axel, Xion, Aqua, Terra, Ven, Xehanort, Master Xehanort, Xehanort's Heartless, Xemnas, Organization XIII, etc, etc. While Donald & Goofy as Spirits would be nice, they aren't needed, nor are they needed for a Final Smash as Sora can do impressive attacks without them (I mean, if I recall, they were left out of the Final Boss Fights of Kingdom Hearts II, DDD, and III).

I'm going to agree with this as well. IF Nintendo is fine with Kingdom Hearts as a video game, then there's no reason you can't put Sora in without any of the Disney characters. The series has more than enough characters, locations and music that are unique to the series. All they really have to do is take the little Mickey Mouse icon off his keyblade chain.

Saying and stretching to say that Sora isn't a video game Characters or that ****ing Mickey or Wreck-it-ralph or Android 21 have the same chance is truly stretching

So is saying Mickey or Wreck-it-Ralph have the same chance as Android 21. One originates from a video game of a non-video game property. The other two originate from outside video games entirely.

Am quite sure that SMRPG is gonna get a remake eventually, it’s a legendary game and we haven’t had a proper Mario RPG in a long time; why not revive the project that started all?

Just remake it in that Paper Mario art style!

Look, I know people would probably get mad, but I'd lose my damn mind if they just randomly slapped Eggman on the roster

I'd rather get Eggman as a Boss fight. Preferably driving the Death Egg Robot.