Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

Well the ESRB leaks that were in picture form, to my memory, stayed up. I'm sure you could probably still find some. The pictures predated the videos by at least a few days, iirc.

It was just the videos Nintendo pulled down.


I honestly have no idea what the specifics of their system is, I just know the divide seems to be between pics and videos.

Reminder: Sakurai doesn't mention "good boys and girls" in the Japanese version of his smash reveal.

He specifically mentions they couldn't add her in order to keep the CERO A rating. pic.twitter.com/sJTKMstiNP

— KRISPYKAISER (@KRISPYKAISER) November 7, 2019

So good boys and girls was made up by a translator? Someone give that man a Pulitzer.

With the decade coming to an end very soon, I think it would be cool if we had a character from a franchise that originated in the 2010s, especially if we get a character reveal in December at the video game awards.

What do y’all think would be a good smash character from a game series that debuted in the past decade?

I'd say Joker kinda counts as he's definitely a modern icon. Other than that, off the cuff I can think of Tracer, 2B (kind of), Dovahkiin (again, kind of), Adam Jensen (you know the drill), and Geralt (really stretching here).

But I'm really struggling to think of big new IP for the decade that isn't first-party to Nintendo or Sony, and not already in Smash in some way. If you're looking Nintendo you have plenty of options, though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So good boys and girls was made up by a translator? Someone give that man a Pulitzer.

I'd say Joker kinda counts as he's definitely a modern icon. Other than that, off the cuff I can think of Tracer, 2B (kind of), Dovahkiin (again, kind of), Adam Jensen (you know the drill), and Geralt (really stretching here).

But I'm really struggling to think of big new IP for the decade that isn't first-party to Nintendo or Sony, and not already in Smash in some way. If you're looking Nintendo you have plenty of options, though.

Wait how is 2B 'kind of' an icon when her game outsold Joker's game?

 

[Deleted member]

Apologies for being quite inactive a while ago. Been playing a couple games of Smash with a few people. They got the DLC which meant I got to play against Terry first-hand (I didn't buy the DLC). My Ike nearly put him in disadvantage had I not SD during my first stock (which was accidental).

But yeah. Personally, I think that Sakurai could have thought of a way to get Mai in but sadly that wasn't the case T_T. What struck me though is that this could influence future newcomers. Recently, KOS-MOS has now taken the place as my most-wanted (slightly dropped Morrigan). But I am cynical that we may not get women at all. Such a shame since barring that we could have gotten more women. I just wish that Sakurai could make an apporach on this...

I dunno guys. All this "Doomguy is a lock" or "Doomguy is 90%" is slowly just telling me to like, quit Smash or something. Smash apparently may not want female characters anymore. Shame, shame, shame.

 

[Ivander]

and Geralt (really stretching here).

Is Geralt eligible? I mean, didn't "The Witcher" series start out as books?

I mean, I can understand being 'maybe' possible due to the video game series popularity and also considering series known for the video games rather than their origin, like Strider Hiryu and the Strider series. But would Geralt even have a chance, due to his series starting out as books?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wait how is 2B 'kind of' an icon when her game outsold Joker's game?

Same reason Geralt is considered really stretching despite outselling both by a long shot I guess...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If you want to get super technical, Rare made Banjo-Kazooie, and they've already got their characters in Smash before so it's very special circumstances at play here :y

The point still stands. If characters were locked to which characters were made by a company over ones that were acquired, then we wouldn't have Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Nonononono, I meant that the character Bethesda made should be BEFORE the one they acquired.

Why? It’s not about representing companies, it’s about getting characters that make for the best additions possible. Nintendo are not going to approach Bethesda and ask them which character they’d like to have in Smash, if Nintendo want Doomguy then that’s who they’ll ask for, it doesn’t really matter who created him, because they’re not choosing characters based on who owns them.

 

[UberPyro64]

Same reason Geralt is considered really stretching despite outselling both by a long shot I guess...

Geralt is a book character first and foremost. Not a video game character. That's why he's not possible.

 

[KatKit]

I'm not going to debate whether Geralt is possible or not, but in regards to iconicness, he has a big budget Netflix show, for Palutena's sake. And 2B is memorable, came from a remarkable game, and has a boatload of cameos all over the place (for good reason). "Kinda iconic" is selling them short bigtime.

 

[N3ON]

People really need to drop "icon" from their Smash lexicon, it's never not going to be too subjective.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Geralt is a book character first and foremost. Not a video game character. That's why he's not possible.

The argument wasn't whether or not they could or couldn't make it into Smash though.

Sorry I should phrase that I was responding to Gwen's post not necessarily the original post.

 

[lordvaati]

I disagree.

And if we're getting 1st party characters (which I think is eventually going to happen in the future)... personally, I'd rather focus on franchises with no playable reps first.

Well of the Five Major Character Omissions of in game Spirits, Two of them(Euden and Mike Jones) would be new Nintendo IPs so that could be possible.

 

[Nemuresu]

Geralt's problematic is that he's recognised more as a video game character than a book character, but the origin just leaves people wondering if he's even fair game for Smash.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Either way Geralt would blow down some interesting doors for fan speculation.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Wait how is 2B 'kind of' an icon when her game outsold Joker's game?

Same reason Geralt is considered really stretching despite outselling both by a long shot I guess...

I didn't mean either of them are kind of icons, I meant they're stretching the definition of representing the 2010s. NieR Automata and 2B are new, but the Drakengard and NieR series predate the decade. As for Geralt, he's really stretching it because he really only became famous in 2015 but he'd been having games for long before that. (I think all of the characters I mentioned are without a doubt iconic)

Is Geralt eligible? I mean, didn't "The Witcher" series start out as books?

I mean, I can understand being 'maybe' possible due to the video game series popularity and also considering series known for the video games rather than their origin, like Strider Hiryu and the Strider series. But would Geralt even have a chance, due to his series starting out as books?

I think he is possible, but we may never know.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I didn't mean either of them are kind of icons, I meant they're stretching the definition of representing the 2010s. NieR Automata and 2B are new, but the Drakengard and NieR series predate the decade. As for Geralt, he's really stretching it because he really only became famous in 2015 but he'd been having games for long before that.

I think he is possible, but we may never know.

But... If Joker gets to be an icon despite Persona and SMT existing quite a while ago, it just seems selective

 

[Ivander]

Geralt's problematic is that he's recognised more as a video game character than a book character, but the origin just leaves people wondering if he's even fair game for Smash.

Yeah, looking into the books, it seems like the game series did affect the books(although the book series supposedly sold around 5 million copies before the games came out) and the author was mentioning about how despite writing the first book 30 years ago(the quote supposedly from 2016), alot of young people kept coming to signings and cons because of the games. This might be more a West case deal, as apparently, the author is a big deal in East Europe.

I mean, it's not just Geralt I'm thinking about when it comes to video game popularity over Origin popularity. A reminder that Strider Hiryu's series started out as a Manga(1988) Before his Arcade game(1989) came out. Nowadays, you'd be striking gold to even find someone who knows about the Strider manga while people who know Strider Hiryu know him for the Strider Capcom games and his crossovers.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Apologies for being quite inactive a while ago. Been playing a couple games of Smash with a few people. They got the DLC which meant I got to play against Terry first-hand (I didn't buy the DLC). My Ike nearly put him in disadvantage had I not SD during my first stock (which was accidental).

But yeah. Personally, I think that Sakurai could have thought of a way to get Mai in but sadly that wasn't the case T_T. What struck me though is that this could influence future newcomers. Recently, KOS-MOS has now taken the place as my most-wanted (slightly dropped Morrigan). But I am cynical that we may not get women at all. Such a shame since barring that we could have gotten more women. I just wish that Sakurai could make an apporach on this...

Morrigan is definitely dead after the Terry presentation. I'm really glad you want KOS-MOS most now though! She's a great character and choice. Dont let anyone else tell you otherwise.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I love these Pop Team Epic Mii Fighters, and I hope Fighter 5 comes with more costumes that allow for these.

This kind of thing is why "Hey, at least they got a Mii costume" will always be met with a grimace from me.
Unless they're going to go the Sans route and give them a mask, "No thanks."

Miis were a mistake...

I disagree.

And if we're getting 1st party characters (which I think is eventually going to happen in the future)... personally, I'd rather focus on franchises with no playable reps first.

This is my stance.

There are some existing franchise reps I'd say merit inclusion (Skull Kid, Porky, 'another F-Zero rep', etc.), but in general, I'd rather see some fresh franchises get playable characters.
Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness), Mike Jones (Star Tropics), Kevin Keene (Captain N), Ashley Mizuki Robbins (Another Code), Lip (Panel de Pon), Miss Madeleine (Magical X), John Raimi (Geist), etc.

Really, the only new Pokemon rep I'd actually be particularly keen on would be someone repping one of the spin-offs (specifically the TCG if I were to choose).

 

[Ivander]

Morrigan is definitely dead after the Terry presentation. I'm really glad you want KOS-MOS most now though! She's a great character and choice. Dont let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Morrigan is far from dead. If the issue is because of CERO freaking out over panties and not breasts and sexiness, Morrigan already avoids the panties issue, as she uses a black dress-like leotard with pink leggings. And regarding Morrigan's cleavage, Morrigan's design can be made a bit less risque without drastic changes or heavy censoring.

 

[GoodGrief741]

But... If Joker gets to be an icon despite Persona and SMT existing quite a while ago, it just seems selective

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. All of those characters are iconic, period. What I was replying to was a post talking about what character could represent a franchise from the 2010s. I pointed out that I feel Joker already does that (despite his franchise being older than that), and then listed a bunch of characters that I also felt could rep the 2010s - despite all but one being from franchises that predate the decade. Hence the comments about them stretching the definition.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Geralt I seriously worry his inclusion would open the floodgates. Everything from Goku to Shrek will be seriously requested/considered.

I'm of the strong opinion that Smash should be a video game centered crossover without muddying the water with **** like James Bond. I get Golden Eye was one of the most influential shooters of all time, that doesn't change the fact that James Bond is a film character first, book character second, and video game character barely third. Seeing him represented along side Mario, Ryu, Pac-Man, and Cloud would just feel wrong. Geralt has the unique position in that, as even the author has stated, a lot of his popularity (in the West at least) comes from the video games. You can't say the same for Bond, Goku, or Spongebob, or whatever other stupid ask people would try to meme into game.

 

[PLATINUM7]

James Bond is a Film character first, book character second, and video game

Is this in order of impact or something?

Because Bond was a literary character before a film character.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Is this in order of impact or something?

Because Bond was a literary character before a film character.

Order of impact. I mean to say he's by far most known for his films. Then for his books. Then for the generation of kids that grew up with golden eye.

EDIT: And even then, I doubt many people fondly remember Golden Eye due to the character of Bond himself

 

[Ben Holt]

Whoever mentioned Geralt, he's not eligible for Smash. He's a book character, not a video game character.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Just imagine this:

Bubsy as first post-pass DLC

 

[ES. Dinah]

Morrigan is far from dead. If the issue is because of CERO freaking out over panties and not breasts and sexiness, Morrigan already avoids the panties issue, as she uses a black dress-like leotard with pink leggings. And regarding Morrigan's cleavage, Morrigan's design can be made a bit less risque without drastic changes or heavy censoring.

I'm not sure what you mean. If Tharja can be removed as a trophy then how can Morrigan be fair game? If Mai can't be in a stage background in that design then how can Morrigan be a fighter? The only way would be covering entirely her cleavage. Will it be Morrigan anymore? Would Mai still be Mai if Sakurai decided to cover up entirely a character from a series he loves? That's where I am going with this right now.

Sakurai didn't want to put Mai cause her most common appearance in KOF suggests she's very sexy. I just feel it would be very similar for Morrigan but I'm not saying that with 100% certainty. I would welcome Morrigan for sure but after today it is a bit hard to see her.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. All of those characters are iconic, period. What I was replying to was a post talking about what character could represent a franchise from the 2010s. I pointed out that I feel Joker already does that (despite his franchise being older than that), and then listed a bunch of characters that I also felt could rep the 2010s - despite all but one being from franchises that predate the decade. Hence the comments about them stretching the definition.

Ah, my bad

While I wouldn't mind seeing Geralt I seriously worry his inclusion would open the floodgates. Everything from Goku to Shrek will be seriously requested/considered.

I'm of the strong opinion that Smash should be a video game centered crossover without muddying the water with **** like James Bond. I get Golden Eye was one of the most influential shooters of all time, that doesn't change the fact that James Bond is a film character first, book character second, and video game character barely third. Seeing him represented along side Mario, Ryu, Pac-Man, and Cloud would just feel wrong. Geralt has the unique position in that, as even the author has stated, a lot of his popularity (in the West at least) comes from the video games. You can't say the same for Bond, Goku, or Spongebob, or whatever other stupid ask people would try to meme into game.

First of all, Geralt's a game character first if James Bond is a movie character first, second, I always see these "THE FLOODGATES HAVE OPENED" fearmongering and it acts like people never asked those ridiculous requests before the feared floodgates hypothetically open

 

[Ben Holt]

Just imagine this:

Bubsy as first post-pass DLC

Bubsy over Earthworm Jim?
There's only one third party 90s platform mascot that deserves to be in Smash!
(By third party, I mean not Nintendo OR Sega.)

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Bubsy over Earthworm Jim?
There's only one third party 90s platform mascot that deserves to be in Smash!
(By third party, I mean not Nintendo OR Sega.)

Double reveal with Gex

It would be amazing, and you know it!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sure what you mean. If Tharja can be removed as a trophy then how can Morrigan be fair game? If Mai can't be in a stage background in that design then how can Morrigan be a fighter? The only way would be covering entirely her cleavage. Will it be Morrigan anymore? Would Mai still be Mai if Sakurai decided to cover up entirely a character from a series he loves? That's where I am going with this right now.

Sakurai didn't want to put Mai cause her most common appearance in KOF suggests she's very sexy.

I mean, Mai's idle alone is this

Morrigan's most suggestive pose in gameplay was her throw iirc though her old MvC winscreen is absolutely a problem

 

[Pinguino21v]

Miis were a mistake...

That's the only way for me to play my most wanted character while waiting for him in the second pass I hope, I don't feel it as a mistake except that Isaac should have been in a long time ago.

There are some existing franchise reps I'd say merit inclusion (Skull Kid, Porky, 'another F-Zero rep', etc.), but in general, I'd rather see some fresh franchises get playable characters.
Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness), Mike Jones (Star Tropics), Kevin Keene (Captain N), Ashley Mizuki Robbins (Another Code), Lip (Panel de Pon), Miss Madeleine (Magical X), John Raimi (Geist), etc.

Don't forget to add Rythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Custom Robo and Chibi Robo to that list, which I believe are all bigger in term of support than those you mentionned.

 

[Ben Holt]

I mean, Mai's idle alone is this
View attachment 245638
Morrigan's most suggestive pose in gameplay was her throw iirc though her old MvC winscreen is absolutely a problem

She didn't have to stand like that in the background. (Also, God forbid female characters be well endowed.)
Are people even aware of how sexual Bayonetta is in her home series?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

First of all, Geralt's a game character first if James Bond is a movie character first, second, I always see these "THE FLOODGATES HAVE OPENED" fearmongering and it acts like people never asked those ridiculous requests before the feared floodgates hypothetically open

Which is why Geralt of all character wouldn't really bother me if included, but with a Netflix adaptation coming up firmly based on the literature you can't say his nature as a book character isn't slowly becoming more and more relevant. And yes, people are asking for Shrek and Goku already. No one actually expects them to get in though, and as long as Sakurai maintains the sentiment he has expressed before about no non-video game characters not being considered, they won't be.

But the moment he changes that sentiment for any exception, all bets are off.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wait don't you have this backwards? Arcsys acquired Kunio, so he wouldn't be first if this was indeed how it played out

No, he WILL be first because acquired characer beats created character. The end.

Wait how is 2B 'kind of' an icon when her game outsold Joker's game?

Because Joker is also not an icon?

Geralt's problematic is that he's recognised more as a video game character than a book character, but the origin just leaves people wondering if he's even fair game for Smash.

It shouldn't. It's pretty cut and dry. It's just wishful thinking to think otherwise.

A reminder that Strider Hiryu's series started out as a Manga(1988) Before his Arcade game(1989) came out.

The manga though was specifically created in conjunction with, and to be promotional for, the video games. It was being written at the same time both the NES and Arcade games were being developed.

That'd be like saying Star Wars isn't a movie franchise because the novel adaptation of the movie came out first.

I dunno guys. All this "Doomguy is a lock" or "Doomguy is 90%" is slowly just telling me to like, quit Smash or something. Smash apparently may not want female characters anymore. Shame, shame, shame.

At the very least, I'm sure Smash is tired of hearing you complain about it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Which is why Geralt of all character wouldn't really bother me if included, but with a Netflix adaptation coming up firmly based on the literature you can't say his nature as a book character isn't slowly becoming more and more relevant. And yes, people are asking for Shrek and Goku already. No one actually expects them to get in though, and as long as Sakurai maintains the sentiment he has expressed before about no non-video game characters being considered, they won't be.

But the moment he changes that sentiment for any exception, all bets are off.

I'm not too familiar with the franchise so how is the Netflix series explicitly more based on the books than the games? I was under the impression the games were also based on the books

That doesn't mean that Sakurai would suddenly take those people seriously

She didn't have to stand like that in the background. (Also, God forbid female characters be well endowed.)
Are people even aware of how sexual Bayonetta is in her home series?

God forbid a woman talks about a female character despite trying to remain as neutral as possible. I'm as surprised as everyone else is that Mai didn't make the cut. It clearly isn't breast size either seeing how they gave Blue Mary a bigger rack than usual but rather the animations, the key poses, etc

 

[PLATINUM7]

because acquired characer beats created character

Lolwut. The end.

Morrigan is far from dead. .

Flashbacks to this

Spoiler

That can be her tagline. Morrigan is not dead.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm not too familiar with the franchise so how is the Netflix series explicitly more based on the books than the games? I was under the impression the games were also based on the books

That doesn't mean that Sakurai would suddenly take those people seriously

God forbid a woman talks about a female character despite trying to remain as neutral as possible. I'm as surprised as everyone else is that Mai didn't make the cut. It clearly isn't breast size either seeing how they gave Blue Mary a bigger rack than usual but rather the animations, the key poses, etc

Many people have brought up inconsistencies between the games and what has been shown in the trailers for the show, despite the fact that the show isn't depicting the game's version of the story, it is strictly an adaptation of the books. For examples, there is a lot more monster hunting in the games than in the books, so fans expecting a lot of monster hunting might be upset.

Sakurai didn't want to put Mai cause her most common appearance in KOF suggests she's very sexy

I feel like this misrepresents what may have gone down. We've already seen that Sakurai specifically expressed he kept Mai out to maintain the CERO rating. We've also pretty much established the man is a huge fan of SNK, I doubt he was pleased that he needed to leave out one of their most iconic characters. We also saw he had trouble with Palutena specifically because of her skirt.

Put all that together and we get the picture that despite being arguably more sexual and naughty, Bayonetta got in and Mai didn't because upskirt shots aren't really a thing with Bayo as you can just make her skin tight suit stay on rather than peel off, and Mai doesn't wear pants and shows off her underwear pretty consistently no matter which iteration of the character you use.

All that in mind Morrigan could potentially get away with it if they figure out a way to cover up the cleavage.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey so Okami HD sold a million. The people involved with Okami would love to make a sequel and fighting game fans were sad Ammy got cut from MVCI.


Oh yeah. It's all coming together

 

[DarthEnderX]

All that in mind Morrigan could potentially get away with it if they figure out a way to cover up the cleavage.

That's easy. Add Lillith instead. Cleavage problem solved!