Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

You know who I meant from the beginning, I never moved any goalposts to try pushing an agenda.
If you're being pedantic about me misusing a term, then yes, I want more black people, of which is in sorely short supply compared to the number of white and Japanese-coded characters. Happy?

I didn't know what you meant. I take things as they are written, I am not a mind reader.

You can't get mad at people misunderstanding you when you don't communicate properly.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Modders didn't say it wasn't possible to do these costumes. They said it was incredibly difficult. And there's a world of difference between the two statements: the world of fake leaks.

Indeed, it's way easier to think it's a real leak, because of all the work it would imply from the person (or group of person) who did it, but so was the Grinch leak. It's easy to say that the Grinch leak was "obviously a fake" nowadays, but, let's be honest: it wasn't that easy.

The purpose of this new leak, whether true or false, is not to "show things in advance" but to initiate discussions on the very nature of this leak. And probably torment a bit the community.

The bare minimum to make a fake leak real is to make the community thinking it can't be a fake. Finding out how to mod Mii costumes, and create some totally new, is the bare minimum. It takes a huge amount of work, but some dedicated guy could do it. Notice that it's "only" a hat, and not a full costume or a whole fighter.

If it's a legit one, it doesn't fit with the usual Mii costume announcements related to a fighter... unless the said fighter isn't one. If these Mii costumes are released alongside Terry, either Geno and Doomguy aren't fighter themselves... or they are also released alongside Terry. And that's also a farfetched assumption. Or these costumes are made way in advance and that build of the game is only available to only a few, probably the NA QA team.

After what we lived with the Grinch leak, I'm really leading toward a fake.

 

[MooMew64]

If Geno gets in as a Mii costume again, though, I gotta admit I will legit feel bad for people. I feel as if they'd probably prefer nothing over that.

 

[Door Key Pig]

the weirdness of someone unlocking geno in WOL then fighting geno's spirit (most likely with the exact same art as the fighter spirit because he doesn't have another render) is why i'm skeptical of spirit upgrades full stop

You can literally replay WoL as one of the unlockable characters and have them face them-but-Galeem/Dharkon-controlled down to having the same palette colour, tho.

A question: if a certain Nintendo 3DS game gets ported to the Switch to bring in Switch Lite interest or whatever they said, could there be a certain character or franchise related to that that'd become more relevant for a Smash inclusion because of that? e.g. Rhythm Paradise Megamix getting ported.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record, I'd be cool with the Geno costume returning if they did a Sans and gave it Super Mario RPG music to go with it.

 

[TheTuninator]

Off the top of my head, Claude's currently my most-wanted Fire Emblem character. There's also Elma from Xenoblade X, Urbosa from BotW and Marina from Splatoon.
Yes, the representation problem isn't squarely on Nintendo's shoulders and is a problem with the gaming industry as a whole, but I still feel I have the right to be disappointed.

Maybe not in this game, but I think Marina and Pearl will get into Smash sooner or later. Splatoon doesn't seem to be nearly as talked-about on this board as it deserves based off of how popular the series is. Nintendo's current #4 IP and #6 best-selling all-time Switch game isn't staying at 1 or even 2 reps (with the inevitable Octoling) forever.

 

[MooMew64]

For the record, I'd be cool with the Geno costume returning if they did a Sans and gave it Super Mario RPG music to go with it.

A remix of SMRPG's battle them would be fantastic. Honestly, any song from that game would be golden.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Maybe not in this game, but I think Marina and Pearl will get into Smash sooner or later. Splatoon doesn't seem to be nearly as talked-about on this board as it deserves, based off of how popularity the series is. Nintendo's current #4 IP and #6 best-selling all-time Switch game isn't staying at 1 or even 2 reps (with the inevitable Octoling) forever.

I still think there's a lot of scope to use more of Splatoon's weaponry through the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook. Inkling doesn't make use of the Sniper, Dualies or the Splataling Gun for example.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still think there's a lot of scope to use more of Splatoon's weaponry through the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook. Inkling doesn't make use of the Sniper, Dualies or the Splataling Gun for example.

Octoling (Octo Expansion) might work as a semi clone in that regard

 

[SvartWolf]

Modders didn't say it wasn't possible to do these costumes. They said it was incredibly difficult. And there's a world of difference between the two statements: the world of fake leaks.

Indeed, it's way easier to think it's a real leak, because of all the work it would imply from the person (or group of person) who did it, but so was the Grinch leak. It's easy to say that the Grinch leak was "obviously a fake" nowadays, but, let's be honest: it wasn't that easy.

The purpose of this new leak, whether true or false, is not to "show things in advance" but to initiate discussions on the very nature of this leak. And probably torment a bit the community.

The bare minimum to make a fake leak real is to make the community thinking it can't be a fake. Finding out how to mod Mii costumes, and create some totally new, is the bare minimum. It takes a huge amount of work, but some dedicated guy seems to be able to do it. After what we lived with the Grinch leak, I'm really leading toward a fake.

If it's a legit one, it doesn't fit with the usual Mii costume announcements related to a fighter... unless the said fighter isn't one. If these Mii costumes are released aside Terry, either Geno and Doomguy aren't fighter themselves... or they are released alongsideTerry. And that's also a farfetched assumption.

and how much of the game modding communitty have confirmed this? imean.. one person still could be a "palo blanco" (basically someone from inside the hoax which tries to appease the doubt of the observers while figuring as someone external)

This still could be fake... but even if it isn't it still doesn't confirm either doomguy or geno. say, that thanks to the shoryuken apparent nerf we can conclude that this is a QA testing sesion (that doesn't have terry due to the danger of leaks) the logical conclusion is that they are testing stuff that would come with terry's patch. so,, why would this costumes come with therry's patch? instead of this characters patches in the future? is fp5 surprise dropping along terry? or are this 2 characters characters that never were planned but they decided to make them mii costumes due to fan demand? (or i case of geno, just bring him back?)

My point is that even if it's real, this leak doesn't hard confirm anything, so guys keep your expectations in check.

 

[Sysreq]

Not a huge point against it being real or anything, but when did Doomguy get popular in the Smash community (I actually don't know)? Since this DLC was chosen a year ago, there's no reason for it to be pandering to the popular characters if they became super popular within that year. It just feels kinda Grinch leak-y.

 

[TheTuninator]

I still think there's a lot of scope to use more of Splatoon's weaponry through the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook. Inkling doesn't make use of the Sniper, Dualies or the Splataling Gun for example.

Absolutely. The weapons used by Inkling are barely a drop in the bucket compared to the overall available pool. I think the current weapon set could comfortably support 5-6+ totally unique characters. That's also to say nothing of the fact that another series, Fire Emblem, has 3 characters who support completely unique movesets despite using the same weapon, a sword.

Octoling (Octo Expansion) might work as a semi clone in that regard

Octoling has a huge amount of potential to be a completely unique character. They'd be wasted as any kind of clone, and Splatoon deserves way more. It's absolutely massive right now and not likely to go anywhere anytime soon.

 

[ToddCam]

I'm a little concerned about this poster who is threatening suicide. Is there a policy on this? Can mods get her account information and maybe try to contact authorities wherever she is?

 

[Deleted member]

the weirdness of someone unlocking geno in WOL then fighting geno's spirit (most likely with the exact same art as the fighter spirit because he doesn't have another render) is why i'm skeptical of spirit upgrades full stop

Can't believe they deconfirmed my boy Mario like this.

 

[MooMew64]

Not a huge point against it being real or anything, but when did Doomguy get popular in the Smash community? Since this DLC was chosen a year ago, there's no reason for it to be pandering to the popular characters if they became super popular within that year. It just feels kinda Grinch leak-y.

He's been in every 4chan leak since December because of a random 5chan leak.

That's part of why some are questioning it.

 

[Deleted member]

Not a huge point against it being real or anything, but when did Doomguy get popular in the Smash community (I actually don't know)? Since this DLC was chosen a year ago, there's no reason for it to be pandering to the popular characters if they became super popular within that year. It just feels kinda Grinch leak-y.

I noticed Doom Guy around the 5chan leak back when that was a thing.

 

[MooMew64]

Can't believe they deconfirmed my boy Mario like this.

That's tennis Mario, though.

The assumption is that it's an alternate form of the character is what differentiates it as a spirit. Geno has no alternate form to pull from.

 

[TheTuninator]

Can't believe they deconfirmed my boy Mario like this.

I don't really buy into the "spirits deconfirm" argument, but this is disingenuous. Mario Tennis Aces Mario is not the playable Mario.

 

[Sysreq]

He's been in every 4chan leak since December because of a random 5chan leak.

That's part of why some are questioning it.

I heard that leak was debunked though?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

the weirdness of someone unlocking geno in WOL then fighting geno's spirit (most likely with the exact same art as the fighter spirit because he doesn't have another render) is why i'm skeptical of spirit upgrades full stop

You don't unlock DLC characters in WOL.


And it was already weird in Smash 4 to have two Mewtwo and Lucas trophies with a fighter trophy and a nonfighter trophy that shared the same name.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

That's tennis Mario, though.

The assumption is that it's an alternate form of the character is what differentiates it as a spirit. Geno has no alternate form to pull from.

If it's about artwork, he can use his in game sprite like Lucas and the Ice Climbers do.

 

[Wunderwaft]

We have Robin using Chrom as a final Smash to defeat Chrom in battle. Characters appearing in more than one form in Smash is nothing new to the series.

 

[Gentlepanda]

You don't unlock DLC characters in WOL.

you unlock them all after freeing 10 characters

 

[Deleted member]

That's tennis Mario, though.

The assumption is that it's an alternate form of the character. Geno has no alternate form to pull from.

You say that, but then we have literally Donkey Kong from the arcade game and literally Donkey Kong as a fighter spirit'

E: Oh wait. Misunderstood. Either way, they can just pull Geno's sprite.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I don't really buy into the "spirits deconfirm" argument, but this is disingenuous. Mario Tennis Aces Mario is not the playable Mario.

Here you go.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

you unlock them all after freeing 10 characters

You don't fight them.

 

[MooMew64]

I heard that leak was debunked though?

It was, to my knowledge. But I think it became a meme on 4chan, which is why some are cautioning people to look at this leak very carefully before reaching conclusions. As many have already said, a LOT about this leak seems really memey and like it was specifically designed to mess with a specific part of the community.

It's either a clever wink and nudge from a leaker who was aware of Ken's original leak, or someone trolling. Could go either way at this point.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's tennis Mario, though.

The assumption is that it's an alternate form of the character is what differentiates it as a spirit. Geno has no alternate form to pull from.

What about the Link (Legend of Zelda NES) spirit or Zelda (BOTW) spirit? Those “forms” serve largely the same purpose in their games as their Smash playable counterparts

We have Robin using Chrom as a final Smash to defeat Chrom in battle. Characters appearing in more than one form in Smash is nothing new to the series.

we also have Mario appearing in Piranha Plant’s victory screen regardless of whether Mario was in the fight or not

 

[TheCJBrine]

If this is the first modder to figure out proportion and compression wizardry without making the game crash and doing it for multiple mii types, they’re a big jerk for making a fake leak instead of telling other modders.

Also, Geno does have other forms they could use for his Fighter spirit; his art from the SMRPG jigsaw puzzle, his sprite, his Ultimate render, or even his true, star form’s sprite itself. Even a key chain if they were willing. The Mother series already used sprites for some spirits, too.

I also really don’t get why y’all are going back down the “they’re already a glorified sticker like Lucas and Mewtwo were already a trophies!” route instead of the “depends on when DLC was planned and when Spirits were decided” route; nice gatekeeping.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really buy into the "spirits deconfirm" argument, but this is disingenuous. Mario Tennis Aces Mario is not the playable Mario.

If you wanna be specific about it, here is the not playable Link spirit to help you understand why I don't care about this argument.

 

[TheTuninator]

Here you go.

View attachment 244958

Sure, that's a much better example.

 

[Deleted member]

I heard that leak was debunked though?

The 5chan leak is dead. It got Joker and "Erdrick" info wrong and Terry wasn't in it.

 

[MooMew64]

What about the Link (Legend of Zelda NES) spirit or Zelda (BOTW) spirit? Those “forms” serve largely the same purpose in their games as their Smash playable counterparts

Different Link and different Zelda. Assuming spirits deconfirm, this works out nicely.

If it's about artwork, he can use his in game sprite like Lucas and the Ice Climbers do.

Definitely possible! Hadn't considered that.

You say that, but then we have literally Donkey Kong from the arcade game and literally Donkey Kong as a fighter spirit'

E: Oh wait. Misunderstood. Either way, they can just pull Geno's sprite.

That's technically Cranky Kong, though.

 

[Deleted member]

That's technically Cranky Kong, though.

Okay mate. What do you call Kaptain K. Rool?

 

[MooMew64]

Okay mate. What do you call Kaptain K. Rool?

Alternate form of K. Rool, similar to how we have Doctor Mario.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Off the top of my head, Claude's currently my most-wanted Fire Emblem character. There's also Elma from Xenoblade X, Urbosa from BotW and Marina from Splatoon.
Yes, the representation problem isn't squarely on Nintendo's shoulders and is a problem with the gaming industry as a whole, but I still feel I have the right to be disappointed.

Urbosa has darker skin, but she's definitely not black. She's technically a Gerudo, which isn't a real race, but if the race was comparable to any real-life ethnicity, it would probably be Indian or Middle Eastern. I'll give you Claude and Marina, sure. But not Urbosa. Elma is pushing it too.

Just saying.

 

[NotLiquid]

You don't unlock DLC characters in WOL.


And it was already weird in Smash 4 to have two Mewtwo and Lucas trophies with a fighter trophy and a nonfighter trophy that shared the same name.
View attachment 244957

Smash 4 isn't Ultimate. Trophies took a lot longer to make than slapping in some transparent PNGs into the game and even giving them a narrative role in context of Ultimate. Based on the Salromano leaks around Smash 4's release, the decision to make DLC was done later in development, so it makes sense that they weren't going to let trophies impact that. Spirits are a whole different ball game; putting one into Smash probably takes no longer than a day, and DLC was likely on the cards very early, so the context for their inclusion was relatively painless while still carrying a little more weight.

Either way, I don't know how anyone can look at the Fighters Pass and see that the fighter selection we got was handled completely outside of what Smash Ultimate already chose to represent. The fighter slate was already hashed out and negotiated mid-last year, the Spirits were clearly worked around that fact. That's not to say the same rules apply for the next wave because we're in uncharted territory, but I still reckon there's plenty of eager fish in the sea for them that they wouldn't have to return to that spirit pile if they didn't want to.

 

[Deleted member]

Alternate form of K. Rool, similar to how we have Doctor Mario.

Look I don't think you understand my argument.

Panda argued that it is baffling in-lore for Geno to fight his Geno spirit.

Me posting all of the different variations of Mario, Link, and K. Rool is to serve as evidence that World of Light doesn't give a **** about its own ruleset.

1. Mario is fighting other Marios
   1. Equally, Mario and Dr. Mario are canonically different characters.
2. You fight Kirby vessels in World of Light, which should be theoretically impossible since he escaped the intro massacre.

Like are you seriously arguing they can't just use Geno but in a different pose, similar to how Wii Fit Trainer's spirits are just her in different poses?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Smash 4 isn't Ultimate. Trophies took a lot longer to make than slapping in some transparent PNGs into the game and even giving them a narrative role in context of Ultimate. Based on the Salromano leaks around Smash 4's release, the decision to make DLC was done later in development, so it makes sense that they weren't going to let trophies impact that. Spirits are a whole different ball game; putting one into Smash probably takes no longer than a day, and DLC was likely on the cards very early, so the context for their inclusion was relatively painless while still carrying a little more weight.

Either way, I don't know how anyone can look at the Fighters Pass and see that the fighter selection we got was handled completely outside of what Smash Ultimate already chose to represent. The fighter slate was already hashed out and negotiated mid-last year, the Spirits were clearly worked around that fact. That's not to say the same rules apply for the next wave because we're in uncharted territory, but I still reckon there's plenty of eager fish in the sea for them that they wouldn't have to return to that spirit pile if they didn't want to.

Lol at a "narrative role".

Yes, if trophies took a much longer time, then they should have been even stronger deconfirmations but they weren't. Spirits therefore shouldn't be deconfirmations at all.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I can’t believe y’all are actually going back down the “they’re already a sticker” route.

I guess Pit is disconfirmed guys, his look from his first game is a Spirit. Uh oh, Sonic is dead, too; he tried to stop Galeem by going Super Saiyan and got snapped.

The gatekeeping is frickin ridiculous.