Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Digimon has every merit and right to be in the game if Sakurai wants. It's biggest challenge is that there is larger IP's that Bandai Namco own that would probably come first like Tales Of (Lloyd) and Tekken like @Lesley Black Velvet points out and as @MasterOfKnees points out, ROB is already an obscure edition. He was a peripheral and never really appeared in a game until Smash. Regardless, there is always a sliver of a chance until we hear that the SSBU is complete so people that want Agumon to make an appearance should be able to keep up hope without others saying, "it won't happen for x, y, and z reasons". That's no different then the old arguments like, "too irrelevant, too niche, or too old" statements that people like to use against some of the characters that made it into the game. *cough cough* Banjo/Kazooie *cough*

Anyone can technically be in Smash as long as they originate from a videogame, as they said.

 

[Izanagi97]

Feels like things are gonna get real hectic come Halloween (and not just because Luigi's Mansion 3 is coming out) since it will be about 4 or so days before the 7/11 poster gets taken down (and replaced with a new one that likely has Terry on it)

 

[Deleted member]

Feels like things are gonna get real hectic come Halloween (and not just because Luigi's Mansion 3 is coming out) since it will be about 4 or so days before the 7/11 poster gets taken down (and replaced with a new one that likely has Terry on it)

Then next week will probably be the Direct, I guess?

 

[Will]

Digimon was a very primitive video game for when it came out, which makes it count, but I'll be damned if there are still modern tamogotchi games being made for Digimon to this day instead of something following the anime.

It's obvious to me the dislike for Digimon's inclusion is that the series in modern day has more association with its anime spinoffs than the pet games from which it originated from. I doubt Agumon was pulling off his anime moves from the old tamagotchi, but then again I've never touched one of those things in my life.

 

[Deleted member]

Digimon was a very primitive video game for when it came out, which makes it count, but I'll be damned if there are still modern tamogotchi games being made for Digimon to this day instead of something following the anime.

I mean, they can write a very, very, very great story, as Tamers had shown us.

 

[M@R!3]

Sorry for the delayed response, the conversation has long since moved on, but I felt I owed y'all a response.

As a forwarning, this is going to be incredibly disrespectful to the character, but I do it mostly for comedic effect, not to offend any potential fans of Sora. This is my personal opinion, and nothing more than that. It's fine if y'all like his design.


Offensive opinion hidden within the spoiler tag so people don't have to read it if they don't want to.

You're good, I was just curious since it's a somewhat common complaint. The only one of Sora's designs I dislike is his Dream Drop Distance appearance. I feel it sacrifices the charm of the original, while also failing to match his KH2 design. Making him younger for plot reasons didn't help either.

The points you dislike were actually explicit design goals for Sora's character. The original design was intended to echo Mickey Mouse, which is why he has the large shoes, shorts, and spiky hair. It was all to mimic Mickey's silhouette. One of the goals for KH2 as a game was to make Sora cooler both in gameplay and design. And KH3's design iirc was built around looking more athletic to suit his greater mobility.

If you think Sora's designs are bad now, you need to see one of the earliest concepts. When Nomura presented this at a meeting with Disney he was met with total silence.

Spoiler: Image

http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9bdm10aRo1qbktd7o1_500.jpg

 

[Will]

I mean, they can write a very, very, very great story, as Tamers had shown us.

It's not about the quality, it's about the dissociation from video games to animation.

Is Agumon more well known by the mainstream audience as a video game character or an anime character, regardless of true origin? It may not matter, but you'll confuse audiences regardless. Next thing you know, people are rallying on the street demanding Goku.

This isn't trying to bash Agumon or say he will never ever happen, but the confusion is legitimate IMO

 

[Deleted member]

It's not about the quality, it's about the dissociation from video games to animation.

Is Agumon more well known by the mainstream audience as a video game character or an anime character, regardless of true origin? It may not matter, but you'll confuse audiences regardless. Next thing you know, people are rallying on the street demanding Goku.

This isn't trying to bash Agumon or say he will never ever happen, but the confusion is legitimate IMO

That is the same concept I brought up when I discussed my point about association in an earlier post.

 

[Izanagi97]

You're good, I was just curious since it's a somewhat common complaint. The only one of Sora's designs I dislike is his Dream Drop Distance appearance. I feel it sacrifices the charm of the original, while also failing to match his KH2 design. Making him younger for plot reasons didn't help either.

The points you dislike were actually explicit design goals for Sora's character. The original design was intended to echo Mickey Mouse, which is why he has the large shoes, shorts, and spiky hair. It was all to mimic Mickey's silhouette. One of the goals for KH2 as a game was to make Sora cooler both in gameplay and design. And KH3's design iirc was built around looking more athletic to suit his greater mobility.

If you think Sora's designs are bad now, you need to see one of the earliest concepts. When Nomura presented this at a meeting with Disney he was met with total silence.

Spoiler: Image

http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9bdm10aRo1qbktd7o1_500.jpg

Wow, you were not kidding

 

[M@R!3]

Wow, you were not kidding

Not in the slightest.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god. Besides the silly comparison between a 2D fighting game character and a 3D fighting game character, Heihachi's moveset is nothing like Ryu's at all. Even if we are gonna look at this on the basic surface level, these two characters are different in abilities, design, and personality. Ryu uses fireball attacks while Heihachi uses electricity to amplify his body's strength. Ryu is young while Heihachi is old. Ryu is aspiring to be strong and good while Heihachi is evil and spiteful.

I really don't get the argument that Heihachi wouldn't be a unique and creative addition to the roster, especially if he bought Tekken mechanics with him to Smash. This video describes how these mechanics can be implemented in Smash quite well, and if I'm being honest this makes Heihachi an even wilder addition than Hero.

 

[Will]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god.

so you're saying god is colonel sanders

 

[Deleted member]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god.

And you just triggered the Tekken fanbase in just a few words.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god. Besides the silly comparison between a 2D fighting game character and a 3D fighting game character, Heihachi's moveset is nothing like Ryu's at all. Even if we are gonna look at this on the basic surface level, these two characters are different in abilities, design, and personality. Ryu uses fireball attacks while Heihachi uses electricity to amplify his body's strength. Ryu is young while Heihachi is old. Ryu is aspiring to be strong and good while Heihachi is evil and spiteful.

I really don't get the argument that Heihachi wouldn't be a unique and creative addition to the roster, especially if he bought Tekken mechanics with him to Smash. This video describes how these mechanics can be implemented in Smash quite well, and if I'm being honest this makes Heihachi an even wilder addition than Hero.

I would be very concerned if an evil old man that likes to throw his son into a volcano played the same way as a roaming traveler that just wants to perfect his craft. Like, what are you hiding Ryu? Satsui no Hado? Oh ok.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god. Besides the silly comparison between a 2D fighting game character and a 3D fighting game character, Heihachi's moveset is nothing like Ryu's at all. Even if we are gonna look at this on the basic surface level, these two characters are different in abilities, design, and personality. Ryu uses fireball attacks while Heihachi uses electricity to amplify his body's strength. Ryu is young while Heihachi is old. Ryu is aspiring to be strong and good while Heihachi is evil and spiteful.

I really don't get the argument that Heihachi wouldn't be a unique and creative addition to the roster, especially if he bought Tekken mechanics with him to Smash. This video describes how these mechanics can be implemented in Smash quite well, and if I'm being honest this makes Heihachi an even wilder addition than Hero.

Eh, I'm still gonna refer to him as Elderly Ryu.

Same way howis British Duck Hunt, is Anime Link, Terry is Trucker Ken, Master Chief is Green Samus, Ryu Hayabusa is Sword Sheik, Steve is Block Villager and Spyro is Four-Legged Ridley.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, I'm still gonna refer to him as Elderly Ryu.

Same way howis British Duck Hunt, is Anime Link, Terry is Trucker Ken, Master Chief is Green Samus, Ryu Hayabusa is Sword Sheik, Steve is Block Villager and Spyro is Four-Legged Ridley.

*chuckles*

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god. Besides the silly comparison between a 2D fighting game character and a 3D fighting game character, Heihachi's moveset is nothing like Ryu's at all. Even if we are gonna look at this on the basic surface level, these two characters are different in abilities, design, and personality. Ryu uses fireball attacks while Heihachi uses electricity to amplify his body's strength. Ryu is young while Heihachi is old. Ryu is aspiring to be strong and good while Heihachi is evil and spiteful.

I really don't get the argument that Heihachi wouldn't be a unique and creative addition to the roster, especially if he bought Tekken mechanics with him to Smash. This video describes how these mechanics can be implemented in Smash quite well, and if I'm being honest this makes Heihachi an even wilder addition than Hero.

Only things they have in common are being Japanese, wearing well worn gi and having a spin-kick move, albeit it very differently executed one.

More differences
Heihachi is a CEO/Crimelord and Ryu is a hobo by choice.
Heihachi explicitly lacks supernatural powers (by his series standards at least) and Ryu's hidden powers are his main story contribution
Heihachi is one of the more complex and interesting characters in the plot, Ryu is the blank printer paper of fighting game characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Heihachi is a CEO/Crimelord and Ryu is a hobo by choice.
Heihachi explicitly lacks supernatural powers (by his series standards at least) and Ryu's hidden powers are his main story contribution
Heihachi is one of the more complex and interesting characters in the plot, Ryu is the blank printer paper of fighting game characters

The virgin Ryu vs the chad Heihachi. Lovin' it.

 

[krokotopia101]

Eh, I'm still gonna refer to him as Elderly Ryu.

Same way howis British Duck Hunt, is Anime Link, Terry is Trucker Ken, Master Chief is Green Samus, Ryu Hayabusa is Sword Sheik, Steve is Block Villager and Spyro is Four-Legged Ridley.

..............I can't even be mad at this.

 

[Deleted member]

..............I can't even be mad at this.

Eh, get used to it.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Only things they have in common are being Japanese, wearing well worn gi and having a spin-kick move, albeit it very differently executed one.

More differences
Heihachi is a CEO/Crimelord and Ryu is a hobo by choice.
Heihachi explicitly lacks supernatural powers (by his series standards at least) and Ryu's hidden powers are his main story contribution
Heihachi is one of the more complex and interesting characters in the plot, Ryu is the blank printer paper of fighting game characters.

Heihachi has electric noogies and trained a random bear in martial arts too.

 

[Flyboy]

I genuinely like every Bandai-Namco possibility with the exception of some of the Tales protagonists I'm not really that hot on, but obviously as a defender of my boy Heihachi I gotta root for him. There are very few characters who can match the sheer hard-nosed brutality of his strikes and combos. The dude is an evil ******* whose attacks have weight. And very few other gaming icons can boast that they chained their biggest rivals to a company-owned rocket and launched them into space.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Here's another one I came up with BTW.

Aussie Sonic (Crash Bandicoot)

Get it because they spin? Eh? Eh?

 

[Us3inMN]

Only things they have in common are being Japanese, wearing well worn gi and having a spin-kick move, albeit it very differently executed one.

More differences
Heihachi is a CEO/Crimelord and Ryu is a hobo by choice.
Heihachi explicitly lacks supernatural powers (by his series standards at least) and Ryu's hidden powers are his main story contribution
Heihachi is one of the more complex and interesting characters in the plot, Ryu is the blank printer paper of fighting game characters.

Heihachi out here makin' BANK

 

[KatKit]

Heihachi has electric noogies and trained a random bear in martial arts too.

He actually trained 2 random bears, a panda, and a Pikachu in a lucha libre costume. And one cat used a fighting style derived from his, while he casually formed a rivalry with another one. Also... his wife trained a tiger.

Seriously, comparing archetypes is like that infamous "these characters are just functions" statement regarding MvC Infinite's roster. There's more to a character than what they're capable of (even though it's pointed out that a character like Heihachi would be original as heck, in appearance, personality, and fighting style), especially in a game like Smash.

 

[SNEKeater]

Hero can't be Anime Link when Link himself is anime.

 

[Deleted member]

I genuinely like every Bandai-Namco possibility with the exception of some of the Tales protagonists I'm not really that hot on, but obviously as a defender of my boy Heihachi I gotta root for him. There are very few characters who can match the sheer hard-nosed brutality of his strikes and combos. The dude is an evil ******* whose attacks have weight. And very few other gaming icons can boast that they chained their biggest rivals to a company-owned rocket and launched them into space.

As a Tekken fan, it's hilarious since I know the references.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hero can't be Anime Link when Link himself is anime.

Haven't you heard? Zelda is mainstream therefore it doesn't count as anime

 

[Deleted member]

Haven't you heard? Zelda is mainstream therefore it doesn't count as anime

Geez, the world is a big weaboo sometimes.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Digimon has every merit and right to be in the game if Sakurai wants. It's biggest challenge is that there is larger IP's that Bandai Namco own that would probably come first like Tales Of (Lloyd) and Tekken like @Lesley Black Velvet points out and as @MasterOfKnees points out, ROB is already an obscure edition. He was a peripheral and never really appeared in a game until Smash. Regardless, there is always a sliver of a chance until we hear that the SSBU is complete so people that want Agumon to make an appearance should be able to keep up hope without others saying, "it won't happen for x, y, and z reasons". That's no different then the old arguments like, "too irrelevant, too niche, or too old" statements that people like to use against some of the characters that made it into the game. *cough cough* Banjo/Kazooie *cough*

funny enough rob never showing up until brawl is actually untrue he was in Mario Kart ds

 

[Rie Sonomura]

funny enough rob never showing up until brawl is actually untrue he was in Mario Kart ds

A Giant ROB statue is also in F-Zero GX, in the background of Port Town

 

[Curious Villager]

funny enough rob never showing up until brawl is actually untrue he was in Mario Kart ds

I think it was also a boss in one of the microgames from Wario Ware Smooth moves and was a cameo in one of the Kirby games and F-Zero. (The very stage that also appears in Smash)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think it was also a boss in one of the microgames from Wario Ware Smooth moves and was a cameo in one of the Kirby games and F-Zero. (The very stage that also appears in Smash)

The original WarioWare had a microgame where you had to get ROB to grab a stack of Stack-Up blocks.

 

[Naoyatodo]

Here's another one I came up with BTW.

Aussie Sonic (Crash Bandicoot)

Get it because they spin? Eh? Eh?

Also sounds like "Sonic's Ass Game," the internal name of the first Crash Bandicoot early in development.

The virgin Ryu vs the chad Heihachi. Lovin' it.

You sure? I mean, who would you rather hang out with? The cool hobo who shoots fireballs out of his hands, or some old rich jerk who doesn't even have superpowers?

I think it was also a boss in one of the microgames from Wario Ware Smooth moves and was a cameo in one of the Kirby games and F-Zero. (The very stage that also appears in Smash)

Don't forget Pikmin 2.

 

[Flik]

The problem with Heihachi is that his son and grandson can do everything he does (sort of) plus transforming in a devil-like creature that flies and shoots laser. They are inherently better for Smash Bros than him.

 

[8-peacock-8]

You sure? I mean, who would you rather hang out with? The cool hobo who shoots fireballs out of his hands, or some old rich jerk who doesn't even have superpowers?

He has electric hands and survived being tossed off a cliff and shot by Devil lasers. Pretty sure he has super powers. Hahahaha

The problem with Heihachi is that his son and grandson can do everything he does (sort of) plus transforming in a devil-like creature that flies and shoots laser. They are inherently better for Smash Bros than him.

Strapping people to a shuttle and shooting them into space>>>>>the devil forms.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It's not about the quality, it's about the dissociation from video games to animation.

Is Agumon more well known by the mainstream audience as a video game character or an anime character, regardless of true origin? It may not matter, but you'll confuse audiences regardless. Next thing you know, people are rallying on the street demanding Goku.

This isn't trying to bash Agumon or say he will never ever happen, but the confusion is legitimate IMO

I think Agumon would be a hilarious pick for smash purely because of how confused it would make people who don't know he originated from a videogame

The problem with Heihachi is that his son and grandson can do everything he does (sort of) plus transforming in a devil-like creature that flies and shoots laser. They are inherently better for Smash Bros than him.

Jin would be a way better pick let's be honest here

 

[Wunderwaft]

The problem with Heihachi is that his son and grandson can do everything he does (sort of) plus transforming in a devil-like creature that flies and shoots laser. They are inherently better for Smash Bros than him.

I can understand where you're coming from. Kazuya would be really neat in Smash, but I feel like Heihachi represents the feeling of Tekken much better than Kazuya since he doesn't have any radical gimmicks like a devil transformation and what not. I believe Heihachi should be the first Tekken character introduced in Smash, he's the mascot of the series and the character used most for crossovers. Though I will say that I do want to see Kazuya join Smash one day as well. This tweet (language warning) comes to mind.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Thing that makes Heihachi better is that his personality isn’t absolutely boring like Jin and Kazuya. Both of which are permanently set to “edge lord”.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Jin would be a way better pick let's be honest here

The Mishima trio needs to be alts/echoes of each other.