Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

She is the main villain of a franchise that Sakurai himself was involved with.

And when Sakurai himself became involved with the franchise he proceeded to make Hades the main villain, not only of the game, but retroactively of the whole franchise.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Cuphead

Cuphead seems to fall under the same complaints as Freddy Fazbear and Sans. He is cussed out all because of a few pieces of porn art and girls hitting on Cuphead's characters. There is also the aurgeement of "not being on Nintendo consoles" but that hasn't stopped Sakurai or his team since almost everyone is chosen pre-development. I can even see Mugman working as an echo.

The first proposal for the roster was finalized in December 2015. Cuphead came out in 2017. Since Cuphead is a third party character and not a Nintendo one, there wouldn't be much sense for Sakurai to know about his existence unlike what happened with Roy, who was originally a clone of Marth.

 

[SmashChu]

He usually informs as soon as he can when he’s wrong about something

So far the only thing he informed is the source that told him Isabelle is a echo but he wasn’t sure if she was echo or not

He does that to appear credible. This isn't new. Other people with "inside information" will make a big todo about the information they have. They'll always have multiple sources and will be "upfront" with their information. I'd say the more information they disclose, the more likely they are lying. They are piling on bogus info to sound credible and there is no way for you to check.

I know it's probably too early to be discussing DLC now, but I'm starting to wonder if Spring Man is a shoo-in like so many others seem to believe. It's important to remember that, despite, Splatoon's popularity, the only thing it got in Smash 4's DLC was a Mii costume of the Inklings. ARMS hasn't even sold as well as Splatoon, so unless Nintendo wants to push the IP aggressively, I don't think Spring Man is as likely as people seem to think.

Splatoon came out while DLC was being released. ARMS will have been out for a year and a half by the time Smash Ultimate actually launches. It's not an issue.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

This is my prediction at this point.

69: Medusa (Reason for unique is because after some good debate why she can't be a full-blown echo to Palutena and so at best maybe a semi-clone)
70: Incineroar
71: Isaac
72: Geno

16e: Impa
38e: Shadow
60e: Ken
71e: Felix

Still hoping at the same time too that Elma, Banjo and Black Shadow makes it somehow. At this point too I don't think Dixie is gonna get in unfortunately which is a shame since it'd complete the DK roster. Skull Kid as well since his chances dwindled due to Lolz18 being a fraud. Maybe they can make it as DLC perhaps.

If these said characters are all that is left, I would be totes satisfied.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Scratch that this is my new final official prediction.

69: Incineroar
70: Isaac
71: Banjo-Kazooie
72: Geno

38e: Shadow
54e: Medusa (I'm confident Sakurai could pull it off)
60e: Ken
70e: Felix

October: Single reveal of Incineroar
Late October or November: Lucina/Robin style reveal of Isaac and Felix
December (Before the 7th): Banjo-Kazooie are revealed in the beginning, then Shadow, Medusa and Ken are and then Geno is revealed as the final character

This is really big wishful thinking on my part but I'm throwing in the bone anyways give or take. This is officially final on my part in predictions.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I was thinking we will get three more unique newcomers and four echo fighters.

69. Incineroar
70 & 71. Steve, Sora, Bandana Dee, Isaac or Skull Kid

Echoes
11e Black Shadow (for fans of the cloned version of Ganondorf)
38e Shadow
54e Medusa
60e Ken

I feel like Geno and Banjo will be announced as the first DLC characters.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

5-6 Might be the magic number

Unique

Incineroar/pokemon
Isaac or skull kid
Geno

Echo
Ken
Shadow the hedgehog
Medusa (there’s been something going around that the actor is kind of acting the same way shulks actor was during smash 4)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

5-6 Might be the magic number

Unique

Incineroar/pokemon
Isaac or skull kid
Geno

Echo
Ken
Shadow the hedgehog
Medusa (there’s been something going around that the actor is kind of acting the same way shulks actor was during smash 4)

I'd still be okay with that since I'd be getting Medusa and then Banjo likely for DLC.

 

[Daedulus]

It makes sense... because? Sorry, but how does that make sense at all? I've seen good reasons why some characters are DLC, and in many cases, it's because a 3rd party company either wants to gauge the character's popularity(which is perfect for characters who are from inactive IP's) or to make actual money from them(as they can't if they're base to the same degree). Each single purchase would gather extra money for the 3rd party company, but it would still more importantly tell them how many people outright want them revived/care about the character. This is really helpful since you can't tell easily by people writing outrageous statements on the internet or from polls necessarily. They need hard and clear data. Is it perfect? Nah. It might mean they think the character only should appear in Smash and don't care about them being revived. But it is still better than nothing.

Really so it wouldn't drive up even more hype for the game before release? Everyone wants geno, even sakurai. The truth is that just because sakurai said we wouldn't go at the same speed as during august doesn't mean that we can't geno. In my opion we will get 3 newcomers, 1 echo ken, 1 semi-clone shadow and 1 newcomer geno.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Really so it wouldn't drive up even more hype for the game before release? Everyone wants geno, even sakurai. The truth is that just because sakurai said we wouldn't go at the same speed as during august doesn't mean that we can't geno. In my opion we will get 3 newcomers, 1 echo ken, 1 semi-clone shadow and 1 newcomer geno.

You missed the key point besides good reasonings for him to be DLC.

You claimed he'd make sense for base roster without any actual reasoning. I was asking for the reasoning while also explaining why I think he'd work well as DLC. Both can work. Also, Smash doesn't often end on hype newcomers to begin with, so who knows what'll happen. I do think him being a hype DLC option would actually be the best of both ideas. He'd easily hype up the roster, but it also would give Square-Enix some usage of the IP they're holding onto more than simply VC sales(and with the Switch not having VC, they can't make money off of SMRPG, so him being DLC at least rectifies this problem for them).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trintran...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1047873624256831488

Bill don’t do this to use.

 

[TheCJBrine]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trintran/status/1047873624256831488?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1047873624256831488&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1047873624256831488

Bill don’t do this to use.

Skulllllllllll Kiddddddddddddd

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Huh so it seems Chair Theory may had been true all along who would had known...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trintran/status/1047873624256831488?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1047873624256831488&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1047873624256831488

Bill don’t do this to use.

How often has Bill left these kinds of tweets and it actually meant something? If it often does, or always did, I'd actually take this with less than a grain of salt.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

The results of the /r/smashbros poll are in, and I'm hyped to hell over them. Lloyd got 4th out of 32, beating Shantae, Bandana Dee, Crash, Paper Mario, and Skull Kid. It looks like the Isaac/Lloyd brotherhood is really solid:

 

[SargeAbernathy]

Feel like this is as good a place as any for my own predictions. Just have the urge to type them out.

I certainly would not be surprised to see Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, Incineror, or Banjo. They've got the hype and the history.

Ken I've got full confidence in. After that, however, I don't think there will be any more Echo Fighters of the veteran fighters. I don't think Shadow or Dixie will get into the base game. (Much less any other suggestions out there such as Medusa, Octolings, Ninten, etc.) Echo fighters of any other newcomers I think might be possible, but the only one I can think of is Garet or Felix.

As much as I love Minecraft, I can't see Steve being in the game, but I can easily see a stage dedicated to Minecraft as well as a stage dedicated to Tetris. These are the #1 and #2 most sold games of all time, and representation would be great. I could see both levels being fan favorites.

I still think the following characters have a decent shot (albeit, not as high as the ones mentioned above): Tails, Impa, Sora, Elma, Lloyd, Shantae, and Monster Hunter.

If I had to throw out some even rarer names? I'd go with Agumon, Spyro, and Lara Croft. Let's just say I don't think they're 0%, but I don't think they're above 10% either. They're low on the totem pole, but any could easily be a surprise inclusion. I'd say Spyro if I had to choose one of them.

If Microsoft does play ball, then I could see Master Chief as a character (or potential DLC). His name rarely comes up, but I bet people would start talking about him if Banjo suddenly appeared or Minecraft got a stage.

Lastly, I'm sure you'd probably wonder what I thought about Undertale (it's my icon after all). I'll be generous to one of my favorite games ever and give Sans a .5% chance of getting in. I love Undertale, I'd adore seeing it in the game, but I don't think it rises to the level of a playable character. As an assist trophy? I'll throw out a 1-2% I adore you Undertale! ..... but you're not getting in. :/

 

[GoodGrief741]

Feel like this is as good a place as any for my own predictions. Just have the urge to type them out.

I certainly would not be surprised to see Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, Incineror, or Banjo. They've got the hype and the history.

Ken I've got full confidence in. After that, however, I don't think there will be any more Echo Fighters of the veteran fighters. I don't think Shadow or Dixie will get into the base game. (Much less any other suggestions out there such as Medusa, Octolings, Ninten, etc.) Echo fighters of any other newcomers I think might be possible, but the only one I can think of is Garet or Felix.

As much as I love Minecraft, I can't see Steve being in the game, but I can easily see a stage dedicated to Minecraft as well as a stage dedicated to Tetris. These are the #1 and #2 most sold games of all time, and representation would be great. I could see both levels being fan favorites.

I still think the following characters have a decent shot (albeit, not as high as the ones mentioned above): Tails, Impa, Sora, Elma, Lloyd, Shantae, and Monster Hunter.

If I had to throw out some even rarer names? I'd go with Agumon, Spyro, and Lara Croft. Let's just say I don't think they're 0%, but I don't think they're above 10% either. They're low on the totem pole, but any could easily be a surprise inclusion. I'd say Spyro if I had to choose one of them.

If Microsoft does play ball, then I could see Master Chief as a character (or potential DLC). His name rarely comes up, but I bet people would start talking about him if Banjo suddenly appeared or Minecraft got a stage.

Lastly, I'm sure you'd probably wonder what I thought about Undertale (it's my icon after all). I'll be generous to one of my favorite games ever and give Sans a .5% chance of getting in. I love Undertale, I'd adore seeing it in the game, but I don't think it rises to the level of a playable character. As an assist trophy? I'll throw out a 1-2% I adore you Undertale! ..... but you're not getting in. :/

How does Incineroar have history? He has existed for less than two years. I don’t see much hype for him either.

Garet wouldn’t exactly work as an Echo of Isaac, given he’s associated with fire magic.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If anyone would be an echo to Isaac it'd be Felix.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

In my opinion, Geno would be a cool charcater to release right before the game comes out, it just makes sense.

I could see Geno being revealed a'la Mewtwo from the Sm4sh 50 Fact Extravaganza presentation, where he's revealed but made the first DLC character later on.

 

[RileyXY1]

I could see Geno being revealed a'la Mewtwo from the Sm4sh 50 Fact Extravaganza presentation, where he's revealed but made the first DLC character later on.

I highly doubt that they will reveal DLC characters before release.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I highly doubt that they will reveal DLC characters before release.

It makes sense if they're characters who couldn't be finished before the actual game.

Keep in mind the only reason Sakurai waited to announce DLC as that he was always iffy on the idea. He prefers practices that are for the fans, not anti-consumer. However, he knows DLC works. Announcing character DLC in the final direct is not an issue this time around because the Switch is pretty much paid online for playing the game that way.

So it's a bonus. You could pay for the bundle/character. Or get it while getting all your other Nintendo online privileges. It could also cost possibly less than the bundle itself too for the first batch. There's ways to do it that are useful~

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t know if anybody said it, but Sheik’s post was updated to say she’s female.

At least, the weekly post on my Switch news update thing calls Sheik a she.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don’t know if anybody said it, but Sheik’s post was updated to say she’s female.

At least, the weekly post on my Switch news update thing calls Sheik a she.

The US blog still uses the outdated version. I think Dark Samus was fixed to being called a she after quite a while. Kind of weird it took that long.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

How often has Bill left these kinds of tweets and it actually meant something? If it often does, or always did, I'd actually take this with less than a grain of salt.

Remember what happened before E3 he did the same thing with snake

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Remember what happened before E3 he did the same thing with snake

Doesn't answer my full question though. That only tells me one time it was relevant. What about his other ones?

I mean, I can believe Skull Kid can get in, but this isn't enough to be convinced.

 

[SargeAbernathy]

How does Incineroar have history? He has existed for less than two years. I don’t see much hype for him either.

Garet wouldn’t exactly work as an Echo of Isaac, given he’s associated with fire magic.

I'm referring to the history of predictions/speculation. He's the pokemon from the most recent generation that's been talked about the most.

I meant Felix, and got the two mixed up.

However the element shouldn't matter so long as the movesets are the same. So if an Echo imitates the original , but the difference is that animation shows a Fire blast instead of an Ice blast .. I'd think that be okay. It's an echo still ... same move, same result, just a different animation.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Incineroar's inclusion to this game is pretty much the trend for every new Pokemon in a Smash game and also Sakurai's love for cats though if that was the case why didn't he ever add Meowth as a playable character?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm referring to the history of predictions/speculation. He's the pokemon from the most recent generation that's been talked about the most.

I meant Felix, and got the two mixed up.

However the element shouldn't matter so long as the movesets are the same. So if an Echo imitates the original , but the difference is that animation shows a Fire blast instead of an Ice blast .. I'd think that be okay. It's an echo still ... same move, same result, just a different animation.

Well, Isaac uses Earth attacks, not Ice, so I really don’t see a lot of overlap...

And Incineroar is actually a more recent pick for speculation borne out of Vergeben. The most talked about Pokémon is Decidueye for sure, and Lycanroc follows.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

One thing I've been thinking about Shadow as an echo.....

If people can believe that a unique character was not included in the game (as an assist or something similar) in order to keep the door open for dlc.....why can't the same be true for echoes? Even if they don't take as much work to create as unique characters, there's still a lot of work that goes into them. (Sakurai has said it himself)

I'm starting to think Shadow could end up being dlc rather than appearing in the base game, I think dlc echoes will probably end up being a thing.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Skulllllllllll Kiddddddddddddd

Ive been gona for a week - are we getting something.... Sunday!? Or was it the 11th rumored?
I get the Majora's Mask reference but countdowns above all else... not nice

I don’t know if anybody said it, but Sheik’s post was updated to say she’s female.

At least, the weekly post on my Switch news update thing calls Sheik a she.

Maybe she got the Super Crown item since the post went live?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trintran/status/1047873624256831488?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1047873624256831488&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1047873624256831488

Bill don’t do this to use.

Reggie: Hey Bill! Your fired!

 

[XigmunGothar]

A theory about the final fighter reveals:
https://smashboards.com/threads/fin...rehensive-newcomer-speculation-theory.459137/

 

[Deleted member]

Well, Isaac uses Earth attacks, not Ice, so I really don’t see a lot of overlap...

And Incineroar is actually a more recent pick for speculation borne out of Vergeben. The most talked about Pokémon is Decidueye for sure, and Lycanroc follows.

Because they would silence Incineroar talk.
Now they can't, even if they desperately want to.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434225095#q434225095

Let’s see if we can debunk this one.

The first problem is the lack of ears unless it’s dark enough to hide them

EDIT:
https://www.deviantart.com/jagerage/art/Geno-s-Return-752030840

Case closed we found it

 

[SargeAbernathy]

Well, Isaac uses Earth attacks, not Ice, so I really don’t see a lot of overlap...

I was making a generic example.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Scratch that this is my new final official prediction.

69: Incineroar
70: Isaac
71: Banjo-Kazooie
72: Geno

38e: Shadow
54e: Medusa (I'm confident Sakurai could pull it off)
60e: Ken
70e: Felix

October: Single reveal of Incineroar
Late October or November: Lucina/Robin style reveal of Isaac and Felix
December (Before the 7th): Banjo-Kazooie are revealed in the beginning, then Shadow, Medusa and Ken are and then Geno is revealed as the final character

This is really big wishful thinking on my part but I'm throwing in the bone anyways give or take. This is officially final on my part in predictions.

I think if Geno and Banjo are both in Banjo is gonna be the final reveal. he's probably the hardest hitting surprise they could pull off. (well besides something stupid like Goku which obviously isn't happening)

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Back to the box for a moment.. If you count the characters across there are a total of 12 characters in that row.. So if you add Incineroar and Ken then there could be a final row of 12 so perhaps this is the new box theory..

According to my calculations, we get Incineroar, Ken and perhaps another to start the next row.

After we finally see the highly rumored Incineroar and Ken, I believe the last row to be Skull Kid, Elma, Bandana Dee, Shadow, Isaac, Medusa, Black Knight, Black Shadow, Octoling, Dixie, and Geno.. Again characters like Sora, Banjo, and Steve, they are totes likely to be dlc.. Perhaps maybe either Banjo or Steve will be the last of the final 12, but I could totes see Square and Microsoft holding off their second reps for dlc.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I believe the last row to be Skull Kid, Elma, Bandana Dee, Shadow, Isaac, Medusa, Black Knight, Black Shadow, Octoling, Dixie, and Geno.. Again characters like Sora, Banjo, and Steve, they are totes likely to be dlc..

Good god how much I wish that'd be true...

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Good god how much I wish that'd be true...

Oh its true according to my calculations, believe that.

I counted 12 characters per row on that card that resonates with the box theory, two more finishes up the current row, but I believe there is another row of 12.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Back to the box for a moment.. If you count the characters across there are a total of 12 characters in that row.. So if you add Incineroar and Ken then there could be a final row of 12 so perhaps this is the new box theory..

According to my calculations, we get Incineroar, Ken and perhaps another to start the next row.

After we finally see the highly rumored Incineroar and Ken, I believe the last row to be Skull Kid, Elma, Bandana Dee, Shadow, Isaac, Medusa, Black Knight, Black Shadow, Octoling, Dixie, and Geno.. Again characters like Sora, Banjo, and Steve, they are totes likely to be dlc.. Perhaps maybe either Banjo or Steve will be the last of the final 12, but I could totes see Square and Microsoft holding off their second reps for dlc.

That reaches the levels of dream roster:

Inkling
Daisy
Ridley
Simon
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar
Ken
Skull Kid
Elma
Bandanna Dee
Shadow
Isaac
Medusa
Black Knight
Black Shadow
Octoling
Dixie Kong
Geno
and no Steve?

Stick Ninten in there somewhere and I retire from Smash speculation forever.

That’s 11/12 unique newcomers (depending on whether Dixie is unique or not). For comparison, Melee had 12 (13 if you count Sheik as separate), Brawl had 15 (18 if you count Zero Suit Samus as separate and Pokémon Trainer’s Pokémon as individuals), 4 had 13 (15 counting each Mii Fighter as separate) + 4 DLC newcomers. That’s 0-2 less than Melee, 3-7 less than Brawl, and 1-4 less than 4, and without taking into account 10/11 Echoes.

It can be made to fit with Sakurai’s ‘not too many newcomers’, but it’s certainly a stretch, especially taking into account the fact that Everyone is Back; while most have the fortune of having their assets ported from 4, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Pichu, Snake, Squirtle, Wolf and Young Link should probably be considered to have taken nearly as much work as newcomers.

All in all, it’s not impossible, and man would it be hype as ****, but I won’t be hoping for anything of this magnitude.