Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[NoOtherPersona]

I'm sure we're going to get at least one female by DLC end even if it's not the Fighters Pass.

Still a bit gutted we didn't get Dixie during Sm4sh when there seemed to be more focus on female additions since she seemed to have everything going for her.

That said, I'm a bit disappointed to see that Inkling is being downplayed when the default and face of the series is female. The fact there is a male alt shouldn't take away from the girl Inkling being the main one?

the Female octoling is the default as well and one I've been wanting her to get in i don't even play most of the characters i want echos for such as
Jeanne
Medusa
Ms. Pacman (the only one I'd play)
Impa
Octoling
if a echo fighter pass is a thing I want these the most especially Impa Dixie can be a semi clone to

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to be as succinct as I can.

1. That's not the kind of diversity we're talking about. Because a lot of the characters and traits you mentioned are male coded.

2. "It's not like a lesbian is somewhere just waiting for CNN to report Tracer was added to Smash". No, but there might be a lesbian out who's favourite game character is Tracer and who never thought to play Smash before. This kind of representation does mean a lot to people. And the fact that you can sit there and deny that speaks to your privelge.

3. It's not narrow definitions of diversity. Women, POC and LGBTQ+ don't not consume media just because it doesn't feature people like them. Because most media fixates on the straight white male. But that gets tiring. This isn't asking for arbritary representation, this is saying "hey the amount of media out there skews very clearly to the male experience" and demographics show that the world skews only very slightly male (49.6% of the population is female). So asking for one female character in a DLC lineup really doesn't seem like that big of an ask.

And at the end of the day, the fact that you can't even entertain the idea of "female" being as valid a request as the myriad other ones that come into this thread show just how toxic and full of misinformation this debate has become.

Why is asking for a big female video game icon "ludicrous, unprofitable, and unnecessary". Ask yourself why your gut response is to assume the addition of a female character would be negative. Because none of the DLC choices or 3rd party picks have been bad. And I'll still be happy if the final character is a male character I like. But that doesn't change the fact that I can still criticise the game for somehow adding 5 characters to the game, and not only not adding any women (beyond Kazooie), but also not taking advantage of the opportunities they did have to include female alts within their already chosen characters.

At the end of the day, I'll just say to myself that I may not buy this pass if I cannot truly 100% get one.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

At the end of the day, I'll just say to myself that I may not buy this pass if I cannot truly 100% get one.

What if they did an echo pass and it's all the characters I said would you be satisfied with that or would you not want echos?

 

[Koopaul]

So um. Anytthing new? Or is it just the same old topics that just have the same arguments brought up over and over and over?

 

[Spongeboob]

a

On the topic of female fighters, I do think people need to calm down a little bit as to the "doom and gloom" of no female DLC fighters. Smash 4 had 5 DLC fighters before we got Corrin with a female alt (that everybody actually preferred) and Bayonetta. I don't think it inherently needs to be a big deal if the Fighter's Pass has no full female fighters (I don't count Kazooie as a "female fighter" or whatever, but I count her more than some people do in the same way I count Nana in Ice Climbers as an additional category from the Male/Female split) as long as we eventually get a couple of female fighters. In a medium that rarely prioritizes female leads, they are going to compose a smaller percentage of things typically speaking and there is more likely to be periods in which we go without a female fighter. It's just the circumstance sometimes, so I do think people should maybe calm down a little bit when it comes to the Fighter's Pass. Especially given it has been third party focused, and that's generally an even worse situation than the first party one where there's more room for them due to how many first party fighters are already in.

I agree that Smash should look for more representation, I just wish people would just try to rally more specifically behind a couple of major characters instead of the more general "female fighters in Smash DLC" idea. Like we can come up with lists of female fighter options all day, but our best chance at making more female fighters a reality just seems to be actually creating a substantial voice that supports more specific characters and can then accurately support them on their own merits too. Take Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, 2B, or (and yes, despite recent events, I think she's a really great option for diversity) Tracer; and really hammer home their merits and support. These types of characters not only are major female characters in gaming to different degrees, but they're also from active series that Nintendo also stands to gain from in the relationship with these developers and specific titles. Nintendo is still a business after all, and the best way to incentivize them is through profit, and showing them these options can be profitable is how I think we make progress. Because right now, a loud portion of Smash's fan base and the overall video game market has been showing them that male characters are profitable, hence the situation we're in.

On a more personal note, me supporting more female fighters does clash somewhat with my determination for a focus new third parties. Like I said, Nintendo's characters are probably the best source of female fighters, but so many of them have numerous issues due to either where they originate from or who they're less popular than (such as Elma under Rex/Pyra/Mythra) or that the really solid female character options tend to come from the same series). They're are a number of notable female third parties, but the number of them that are wide-reaching and "make sense" (in looser terms) is a shorter list. Also, it's a shame that two of the best options have to come from the same company and that this company also happens to own my most wanted that's a "Smash Bubble" darling...

None of the male characters who are in are in solely because they're male, but rather for...
-Sakurai likes Persona 5 and King of Fighters
-Dragon Quest heroes, as well as Banjo & Kazooie, had a lot of fan demand behind them

I don't want Tracer in Smash but that's just me. You do you, I guess.

I'm going to be as succinct as I can.

1. That's not the kind of diversity we're talking about. Because a lot of the characters and traits you mentioned are male coded.

2. "It's not like a lesbian is somewhere just waiting for CNN to report Tracer was added to Smash". No, but there might be a lesbian out who's favourite game character is Tracer and who never thought to play Smash before. This kind of representation does mean a lot to people. And the fact that you can sit there and deny that speaks to your privelge.

3. It's not narrow definitions of diversity. Women, POC and LGBTQ+ don't not consume media just because it doesn't feature people like them. Because most media fixates on the straight white male. But that gets tiring. This isn't asking for arbritary representation, this is saying "hey the amount of media out there skews very clearly to the male experience" and demographics show that the world skews only very slightly male (49.6% of the population is female). So asking for one female character in a DLC lineup really doesn't seem like that big of an ask.

And at the end of the day, the fact that you can't even entertain the idea of "female" being as valid a request as the myriad other ones that come into this thread show just how toxic and full of misinformation this debate has become.

Why is asking for a big female video game icon "ludicrous, unprofitable, and unnecessary". Ask yourself why your gut response is to assume the addition of a female character would be negative. Because none of the DLC choices or 3rd party picks have been bad. And I'll still be happy if the final character is a male character I'll like. But that doesn't change the fact that I can still criticise the game for somehow adding 5 characters to the game, and not only not adding any women (beyond Kazooie), but also not taking advantages of the opportunities they did have to include female alts within their already chosen characters.

"That's not the kind of diversity we're talking about. Because a lot of the characters and traits you mentioned are male coded."
Male coded? What even is that?

"... the fact that you can't even entertain the idea of "female" being as valid a request as the myriad other ones that come into this thread show just how toxic and full of misinformation this debate has become."
First of all, Shantaeposters say hello. Second, there wouldn't be such a stigma if people actually had reasons for their female character to get in other than "it's a girl". (I have no problem with girls in Smash. If I did, I'd be boycotting the ones already in the game.)

"...there might be a lesbian out who's favourite game character is Tracer and who never thought to play Smash before. This kind of representation does mean a lot to people. And the fact that you can sit there and deny that speaks to your privelge."
Overwatch was never on Switch until recently, so why would they think to play Smash? How does representation mean anything? (Americans totally love the idea of Terry Bogard in Smash, and surely they must also love Snake and Little Mac for being American.) And- *sees "privilege"* I'm not even gonna bother with that one.

"Because most media fixates on the straight white male."
Citation needed. Also, what does that have to do with Smash?

"But that gets tiring."
I'll give you that one.

"...asking for one female character in a DLC lineup really doesn't seem like that big of an ask."
Once again, I agree.

Yeah I mean, they are profitable and everything, but I'm more conerned with the small female demographic that is still a valid issue. We don't want to be left out. We don't want to see much more characters we cannot identify with easily.

I guess I can't relate to Aggretsuko.
Well first of all, (I'm not saying all males or females like these things, but )fighting games are generally more appealing to males than females. It's like how romance movies are more appealing to females than males. Second, you don't need to be the same gender as a character to relate to them. Third... Okay. There can be a character appealing to the female demographic. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I'd also like to add:
1. Strip away all of your characters' genders. What are you left with? That's what I think we should base character choices on.
2. Go woke, get broke.
3. I think Clementine from The Walking Dead would be a funny addition to Smash.
4. Rabbids too.
5. Friendly reminder that the DLC choices were finalized last November.
6. Can we discuss Smash now? Who do y'all think is the last Challenger Pack? I think it's (most likely) Doomguy.

So um. Anytthing new? Or is it just the same old topics that just have the same arguments brought up over and over and over?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well first of all, (I'm not saying all males or females like these things, but )fighting games are generally more appealing to males than females. It's like how romance movies are more appealing to females than males.

Yikes

 

[Deleted member]

What if they did an echo pass and it's all the characters I said would you be satisfied with that or would you not want echos?

Echoes are fine in my book.

1. Strip away all of your characters' genders. What are you left with? That's what I think we should base character choices on.
2. Go woke, get broke.
3. I think Clementine from The Walking Dead would be a funny addition to Smash.
4. Rabbids too.
5. Friendly reminder that the DLC choices were finalized last November.
6. Can we discuss Smash now? Who do y'all think is the last Challenger Pack? I think it's (most likely) Doomguy

1. We should be left with the base archetypes of each of the characters (swordies, shotos, etc.). It's up to the devs to decide the gender.
2. I'd rather be broke than woke.
3. *shrugs*
4. They'd be fine.
5. Yeah, and I hope they also took into consideration at least one woman.
6. I'd let my rage side do the talking: NO GIRL, NO BUY. And I'm serious. If I don't get at least one, I'm basically borderline pissed and sad at the same time. We got Bayo last time. I doubt we'll get an all male pass. For the love of God...I just want a woman to be in the game...please...

 

[Nquoid]

"That's not the kind of diversity we're talking about. Because a lot of the characters and traits you mentioned are male coded."
Male coded? What even is that?

"... the fact that you can't even entertain the idea of "female" being as valid a request as the myriad other ones that come into this thread show just how toxic and full of misinformation this debate has become."
First of all, Shantaeposters say hello. Second, there wouldn't be such a stigma if people actually had reasons for their female character to get in other than "it's a girl". (I have no problem with girls in Smash. If I did, I'd be boycotting the ones already in the game.)

"...there might be a lesbian out who's favourite game character is Tracer and who never thought to play Smash before. This kind of representation does mean a lot to people. And the fact that you can sit there and deny that speaks to your privelge."
Overwatch was never on Switch until recently, so why would they think to play Smash? How does representation mean anything? (Americans totally love the idea of Terry Bogard in Smash, and surely they must also love Snake and Little Mac for being American.) And- *sees "privilege"* I'm not even gonna bother with that one.

"Because most media fixates on the straight white male."
Citation needed. Also, what does that have to do with Smash?

You're not worth the effort if you're going dismiss me using academic terminology. Learn about this stuff then maybe we can have a conversation about it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So um. Anytthing new? Or is it just the same old topics that just have the same arguments brought up over and over and over?

Sorry to say, but

Except this time it's slightly more toxic on both sides.

 

[Deleted member]

You're not worth the effort if you're going dismiss me using academic terminology. Learn about this stuff then maybe we can have a conversation about it.

It's better if you actually know the meaning of what you're talking about.

What's a good opinion for if the one imposing it is not strong enough?

 

[Sour Supreme]

So um. Anytthing new? Or is it just the same old topics that just have the same arguments brought up over and over and over?

It is a discussion thread, after all. Not a news outlet.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry to say, but

Except this time it's slightly more toxic on both sides.

And as time goes on, it'll get even more toxic and toxic up until the next Direct season.

I started all this, y'know?

 

[Spongeboob]

You're not worth the effort if you're going dismiss me using academic terminology. Learn about this stuff then maybe we can have a conversation about it.

It's better if you actually know the meaning of what you're talking about.

What's a good opinion for if the one imposing it is not strong enough?

Found it!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man code

Also, you're the one who brought up the term, so you should be able to define it. Not everyone buys into the "Straight white male" boogeyman, you know.

Anyways, back on topic. Who is the 5th Challenger Pack? Once again, I think Doomguy is the most likely, with Travis Touchdown a close second.

 

[Deleted member]

Found it!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man code

Also, you're the one who brought up the term, so you should be able to define it.

Anyways, back on topic. Who is the 5th Challenger Pack?

It's safe to say that we are still blind as to who it will be. But if it's male...

Wala Na. Finish Na

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

And as time goes on, it'll get even more toxic and toxic up until the next Direct season.

I started all this, y'know?

Why escalate things? Genuinely. I understand you have strong opinions, but surely there's a way to get those across without hostility.

 

[Deleted member]

Why escalate things? Genuinely. I understand you have strong opinions, but surely there's a way to get those across without hostility.

Then perhaps this is the strongest way to do so. Unfortunately, any time I bring up my female discussion it always ends with that. It's such a sensitive topic.

 

[Spongeboob]

It's safe to say that we are still blind as to who it will be. But if it's male...

Wala Na. Finish Na

Yeah, but it's still fun to speculate.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Let me bring up some fresh news that will get us to discuss something that hasn't been talked about a hundred times already. ZUN said he wants Reimu in Smash in an interview:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My take from this statement is that he possibly hasn't been contacted by Nintendo and Sakurai, it feels good to see him supportive of the idea though. ZUN really has grown and he has changed his thought process about crossovers compared to how he used to be ten years ago.

 

[Will]

Let me bring up some fresh news that will get us to discuss something that hasn't been talked about a hundred times already. ZUN said he wants Reimu in Smash in an interview:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My take from this statement is that he possibly hasn't been contacted by Nintendo and Sakurai, it feels good to see him supportive of the idea though. ZUN really has grown and he has changed his thought process about crossovers compared to how he used to be ten years ago.

i wont mind reimu, the knife chick seems cooler but i assume reimu is the bad ***** of the game

the outrage against her because shes an anime girl will be absolutely hilarious though

 

[TheCJBrine]

We need Bad Apple in Smash.

 

[Nquoid]

We need Bad Apple in Smash.

If Reimu got the Sans treatment, I shudder to think the fan outrage if they limited it to only one song...

 

[Mike Annett]

I don't want a female character in the fighter pass, I want characters like Dixie Kong or Bubbles (Clu-Clu Land).

People should ask for actual names, that's the best way to get what they want. If you just say "I want a female character" you just give arguments to people who are going to say that this is forced diversity.

We should give names, reasons why the characters we want are iconic and deserve to get in smash and stop saying "and also because we need at least a female character", that is not an argument. There's already ton of far more interesting arguments than that.

 

[Will]

If Reimu got the Sans treatment, I shudder to think the fan outrage if they limited it to only one song...

you say that like ZUN is Square levels of stingy when it comes to music

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, but it's still fun to speculate.

Yeah...but when it comes to my principles...and you know my mindset, I'm just going to say that any character as of right now...so..

the outrage against her because shes an anime girl will be absolutely hilarious though

Anime girl, eh? First she'll be decried due to the fact that "where's our Murican Shooter guy" to "where's our sleek ninja" or stuff like that. Then she'll be decried because she's a girl. Considering how overboard our discussion went (and I'm not sure if it'll soon be a habit to discuss female reps in Smash), I doubt there will be salt.

Touhou fans be like:

(Why should I be scared?)

I don't want a female character in the fighter pass, I want characters like Dixie Kong or Bubbles (Clu-Clu Land).

People should ask for actual names, that's the best way to get what they want. If you just say "I want a female character" you just give arguments to people who are going to say that this is forced diversity.

We should give names, reasons why the characters we want are iconic and deserve to get in smash and stop saying "and also because we need at least a female character", that is not an argument. There's already ton of far more interesting arguments than that.

Okay, you don't get it. However, this argument is inevitable. If we were going by that logic, there would still be female names left out.

This isn't forced diversity. This is the team addressing their market wisely.

I know it's not gonna be like, "we need at least a female character", even though that is my number one demand at this point, but aren;t you bothered by the lack of it? If you had a female companion who is interested in buying the DLC, wouldn't she be frustrated by this?

 

[Nquoid]

you say that like ZUN is Square levels of stingy when it comes to music

I was more referring to Megalovania being the only song that came with Sans.

 

[Spongeboob]

Let me bring up some fresh news that will get us to discuss something that hasn't been talked about a hundred times already. ZUN said he wants Reimu in Smash in an interview:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My take from this statement is that he possibly hasn't been contacted by Nintendo and Sakurai, it feels good to see him supportive of the idea though. ZUN really has grown and he has changed his thought process about crossovers compared to how he used to be ten years ago.

Nice.

I don't want a female character in the fighter pass, I want characters like Dixie Kong or Bubbles (Clu-Clu Land).

People should ask for actual names, that's the best way to get what they want. If you just say "I want a female character" you just give arguments to people who are going to say that this is forced diversity.

We should give names, reasons why the characters we want are iconic and deserve to get in smash and stop saying "and also because we need at least a female character", that is not an argument. There's already ton of far more interesting arguments than that.

That's exactly what I think :/

 

[Will]

I was more referring to Megalovania being the only song that came with Sans.

well yeah, sans is a costume

Anime girl, eh? First she'll be decried due to the fact that "where's our Murican Shooter guy" to "where's our sleek ninja"

woah woah woah dont desecrate doomguy or hayabusa like this

if anyone is gonna snap its the geno fans obviously

 

[Nquoid]

well yeah, sans is a costume

If Reimu got the Sans treatment, I shudder to think the fan outrage if they limited it to only one song...

 

[Deleted member]

*sigh* All this talk about having a girl in a crossover fighting game and everyone is split harder than Pangaea split 200 million years ago... *sigh*

Y'know, since we're in the speculation ****, why not do some...y'know, speculation!

I don;t want to think about the last Pass character, but I was thinking: Will we have yet another free character just like we did with Piranha Plant?

There there, I finally brought up something that isn't related to female characters. Happy now?

woah woah woah dont desecrate doomguy or hayabusa like this

Well, if it's a sin to do that, I'm sorry! I'm just tired of hearing those two names over and over and over and over and over and over and up until the infinitieth time.

 

[Will]

stuff

eh, i'm not really expecting that kind of treatment. yet.

sans is a new, special case. i mean, they literally met in person. i dont think ZUN is gonna spend hours at sakurai's house anytime soon

Well, if it's a sin to do that, I'm sorry! I'm just tired of hearing those two names over and over and over and over and over and over and up until the infinitieth time.

I can understand Doomguy but Ryu Hayabusa?

I supported the guy and no one wanted anything to do with him until maybe the last week or so. Crazy how people suddenly flock to new characters like a mob once they hear a leak or something. It's not like I don't welcome it, but it doesn't really feel genuine outside of "well it's not [character] so this is good!" type of mentality, which is just gross.

 

[Spongeboob]

*sigh* All this talk about having a girl in a crossover fighting game and everyone is split harder than Pangaea split 200 million years ago... *sigh*

Y'know, since we're in the speculation ****, why not do some...y'know, speculation!

I don;t want to think about the last Pass character, but I was thinking: Will we have yet another free character just like we did with Piranha Plant?


Well, if it's a sin to do that, I'm sorry! I'm just tired of hearing those two names over and over and over and over and over and over and up until the infinitieth time.

Yeah, it does get annoying sometimes. However, several people, myself included, consider one or the other likely.

well yeah, sans is a costume


woah woah woah dont desecrate doomguy or hayabusa like this

if anyone is gonna snap its the geno fans obviously

It would've been funnier if Geno wasn't a spirit.

 

[Mike Annett]

Okay, you don't get it. However, this argument is inevitable. If we were going by that logic, there would still be female names left out.

This isn't forced diversity. This is the team addressing their market wisely.

I know it's not gonna be like, "we need at least a female character", even though that is my number one demand at this point, but aren;t you bothered by the lack of it? If you had a female companion who is interested in buying the DLC, wouldn't she be frustrated by this?

I never said it was forced diversity, I'm saying that because of how the demand is made, a lot of people are going to say that.
I'm not bothered by the lack of female characters, I'm bothered because Dixie Kong is not in the game already like some other characters. Some just happen to be female.
My GF doesn't like video games lol Two of my female friends who play video games were hyped by Banjo & Kazooie and didn't really care about the rest

 

[Plank08]

Echoes are fine in my book.


1. We should be left with the base archetypes of each of the characters (swordies, shotos, etc.). It's up to the devs to decide the gender.
2. I'd rather be broke than woke.
3. *shrugs*
4. They'd be fine.
5. Yeah, and I hope they also took into consideration at least one woman.
6. I'd let my rage side do the talking: NO GIRL, NO BUY. And I'm serious. If I don't get at least one, I'm basically borderline pissed and sad at the same time. We got Bayo last time. I doubt we'll get an all male pass. For the love of God...I just want a woman to be in the game...please...

Can I be honest real quick? I get that you want a female in DLC but your treating it like getting a female is unheard of, it’s GONNA happen, it’s happened before and there’s so many candidates im SURE Sakurai will just so happen to choose one of the females, Dlc just started, calm down a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

I can understand Doomguy but Ryu Hayabusa?

I supported the guy and no one wanted anything to do with him until maybe the last week or so. Crazy how people suddenly flock to new characters like a mob once they hear a leak or something. It's not like I don't welcome it, but it doesn't really feel genuine outside of "well it's not [character] so this is good!" type of mentality, which is just gross.

Actually, it's kinda karmic when you look at it.

Before Terry's announcement and the Direct, I was the quiet SNK fan who didn;t give much care to it before Smash came.

Then the SNK leak happened, and at that point, I didn;t care about the character discussion and just let my SNK fangirl out. I simply read memes and memes of people being salty about it. Trust me, it's fun to read tyhe entire stock of "who wanted this" and ****.

I never said it was forced diversity, I'm saying that because of how the demand is made, a lot of people are going to say that.
I'm not bothered by the lack of female characters, I'm bothered because Dixie Kong is not in the game already like some other characters. Some just happen to be female.
My GF doesn't like video games lol Two of my female friends who play video games were hyped by Banjo & Kazooie and didn't really care about the rest

Well, it's your family and your companions, but some do.

Can I be honest real quick? I get that you want a female inDLC but your treating it like getting a female is unheard of, it’s GONNA happen, it’s happened before and there’s so many candidates IM sure Sakurai will just so happen to choose one of the females, Dlc just started, calm down a bit.

To be honest, this is the last DLC before the Fighters PAss ends and I'm planning to buy it.

Then some pessimistic people showed up and...welcome to the new face of DLC Speculation, people!

I'm a bit calm, but pessimistic. Because **** are these chances slim. If you're asking me why I'm not chill as of the moment, well, I'm quite chill, just tense and all that. For once, I have harmed people's wishes by my discussions and all that. To me, the Fighters Pass doesn't feel right.

If you're asking about my mindset, have a stock photo. That's figuratively me every time I start my female banter:

 

[DarthEnderX]

3,4,9 got those 10 is debatable because they can be anything

While you can play a bunch of races in 10, there's still a "canon" appearance for 10's Hero. He's the one on the bottom left.

 

[Deleted member]

I apologize to everyone who thought of me as quite annoying. Y'all thinking I'm a bad person now.

I was thinking in advance.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

While you can play a bunch of races in 10, there's still a "canon" appearance fot 10's Hero. He's the one on the bottom left.

i didn't know that but it would have been cool to have 3,4,6,8,10,11 in the game but I'm happy with the ones we have

 

[DarthEnderX]

*sigh* All this talk about having a girl in a crossover fighting game and everyone is split harder than Pangaea split 200 million years ago... *sigh*

I think the split is less between those who are for it vs. those who are against it, and more those who are for it vs. those who are sick and tired of talking about it.

 

[Mike Annett]

I apologize to everyone who thought of me as quite annoying. Y'all thinking I'm a bad person now.

I was thinking in advance.

Wtf no
I understand that you wanna get the chance to play as your dream pick

 

[DarthEnderX]

i didn't know that but it would have been cool to have 3,4,6,8,10,11 in the game but I'm happy with the ones we have

Personally would have preferred, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 11.

7 has a different body type, and 9 and 10 are both CACs.