Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Your Direct Reaction

  • Sakurai, your inner fanboy is showing...

    Votes: 132 44.9%
  • What the heck's a NEO GEO?

    Votes: 10 3.4%
  • Hey come on, come on!

    Votes: 83 28.2%
  • BUSTER WOLF!!

    Votes: 117 39.8%
  • 50 SONGS!?

    Votes: 136 46.3%
  • FIRE! FIRE! PSYCHO SOLDIER!

    Votes: 67 22.8%
  • I'm a good boy/girl of a varying age.

    Votes: 76 25.9%
  • I'm not a good boy/girl of a varying age >:]

    Votes: 93 31.6%

  • Total voters
    294

Senatiator

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For what it’s worth, a veteran was revealed on an anniversary in a trailer. The reason Robin and Lucina’s trailer had Captain Falcon in it was because that day (July 14) was the anniversary of F-Zero X, iirc.

Aside from that I can’t really name any other examples
Snake, the 31st Smash Fighter was revealed in Super Smash Bros Ultimate on June 12, 2018. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots was released on June 12, 2008. Celebrating 31 years of Metal Gear and 10 years of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots.
 

OrpheusTelos

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I think this also speaks volumes to the extent of how Doomguy was bandwagoned. Despite the fact that Doom Eternal's release date had likely very little bearing on his chances, a lot of people saw it as evidence in favor, so now that it's gone his chances are perceived lower when they were always this way.
This whole thing reminds me of when Joker was first announced and people convinced themselves that Persona 5 was totally coming to Switch in an attempt to rationalize his inclusion. When it was revealed that all the Switch would get was a musou game and Royal was still a PS4 exclusive, there were a ton of angry rant videos with titles among the lines of "ATLUS LIED TO US GAMERS!!!" because they couldn't wrap their head around the fact that not everything in the game industry revolves around Smash.
 

ze9

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It's all part of the plan.
Doomguy was initially very likely and unexpected. Then he got talked about too much and he became an echo chamber character, which, as history teaches us, never get in the game.
But now he's become unlikely again and people doubt his chances, so he's not an echo chamber character anymore and he can get in again. They got us hook, line and sinker.
 

Sysreq

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It's all part of the plan.
Doomguy was initially very likely and unexpected. Then he got talked about too much and he became an echo chamber character, which, as history teaches us, never get in the game.
But now he's become unlikely again and people doubt his chances, so he's not an echo chamber character anymore and he can get in again. They got us hook, line and sinker.
If Ryu Hayabusa isn't FP5 (I have no opinion on the matter) then I will lol pretty goddamn hard because then people just won't know what to think anymore.
 
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Which also lead to crazy cynicism such as the fear of Yoshi being cut just because he wasn't revealed alongside Yoshi's New Island. (Yes that actually happened, with Yoshi of all characters....)
Oh god, I remember that. Yoshi being the only member of the OG 8 to not appear in the reveal trailer probably aided this since he was replaced with Pit and Kid Icarus at the time. Sure took their time to reveal him too.

Thinking about it, whilst I'm still not the biggest fan of "Everyone is here" due to a smaller number of newcomers in the base game, it did at least avoid dragging out whether or not staples of the series would be returning. Really not looking forward to dealing with that again next game assuming Everyone is Here is an unsustainable thing going forward.
 
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If Ryu Hayabusa isn't FP5 (I have no opinion on the matter) then I will lol pretty goddamn hard because then people just won't know what to think anymore.
Are you saying that Terry Bogard didn't already take care of that?
Guess Sakurai isn't doing his job right!

Inb4 fighter 5 is from yet another company people overlooked... :smash:
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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If Ryu Hayabusa isn't FP5 (I have no opinion on the matter) then I will lol pretty goddamn hard because then people just won't know what to think anymore.
Yeah, it'd be funny to see all of his fans hopes get completely crushed hahaha haaaaaa :urg:
 

N3ON

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The Doom Guy and Hayabusa surge in speculation was a result of the now debunked 5chan leak. I have no reason why people are serious about their chances without evidence.
Not that there aren't still leaps in logic in play, but people seem to like to gloss over the Hines interview when talking about why Doom Slayer has demand.

Are you saying that Terry Bogard didn't already take care of that?
Guess Sakurai isn't doing his job right!

Inb4 fighter 5 is from yet another company people overlooked...
Terry? Guess Piranha Plant and Joker were widely expected.

I like how every time we get a character that wasn't among the most expected and people go, "WELL NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!". It's just such a shame the Smash fanbase is plagued with as many memory problems as it is. :laugh:
 

ze9

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The Doom Guy and Hayabusa surge in speculation was a result of the now debunked 5chan leak. I have no reason why people are serious about their chances without evidence.
I think they've become popular ideas also because they both fit with the direction the Pass has taken.
 

osby

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The Doom Guy and Hayabusa surge in speculation was a result of the now debunked 5chan leak. I have no reason why people are serious about their chances without evidence.
That's just how the human mind works: when you are more familiar with something among a group, you are more likely to think it as superior to the others.

Leaks make people talk about characters. And then subconsciously that characters seem more probable, even after the leak is debunked.
 
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Not that there aren't still leaps in logic in play, but people seem to like to gloss over the Hines interview when talking about why Doom Slayer has demand.


Terry? Guess Piranha Plant and Joker were widely expected.

I like how every time we get a character that wasn't among the most expected and people go, "WELL NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!". It's just such a shame the Smash fanbase is plagued with as many memory problems as it is. :laugh:
Why just settle for those two? There is Incineroar as well. After all, Decidueye was the defacto Gen 7 Mon, the next Greninja and Grass Starter and Ash's ace in the anime! :teeth:
 
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N3ON

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What's the Hines interview and why is it important?
It's the interview where Hines indicated Bethesda has spoken to Nintendo about Smash and (for better or worse) it's been the backbone of the Doom Slayer argument since it happened last year, predating the 5ch leak. The leak may have widened the doors, but they were already open before that.
 
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It's the interview where Hines indicated Bethesda has spoken to Nintendo about Smash and (for better or worse) it's been the backbone of the Doom Slayer argument since it happened last year, predating the 5ch leak. The leak may have widened the doors, but they were already open before that.
Now that's good evidence. It's no confirmation, but it's better than almost every fighter brought up.
 

osby

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Terry? Guess Piranha Plant and Joker were widely expected.

I like how every time we get a character that wasn't among the most expected and people go, "WELL NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!". It's just such a shame the Smash fanbase is plagued with as many memory problems as it is. :laugh:
That reminds me how people gone "NOW EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE!" when Banjo was revealed... after doing the same with :ultkrool::ultridley::ultpiranha::ultwiifittrainer::ultdarksamus: and half of the third parties.
 
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That reminds me how people gone "NOW EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE!" when Banjo was revealed... after doing the same with :ultkrool::ultridley::ultpiranha::ultwiifittrainer::ultdarksamus: and half of the third parties.
TBH, :ultpiranha: and :ultjoker:really did escalate what people couldn't expect. PPlant is the first mook to ever become a full fighter, which goes against only defined characters being allowed for Smash. And then Joker threw a wrench into leaker speculation when everybody was expecting a SE rep for the first DLC.

At that point, I just stopped giving a **** beyond what Verge says.
 

N3ON

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Now that's good evidence. It's no confirmation, but it's better than almost every fighter brought up.
Yeah, it's alright. But it's certainly far from a confirmation of anything. I mean Hines doesn't even refer to any IP in particular, people just assume it's Doom-related.

Leads me to wonder how many people think the Doom Slayer popularity is owing exclusively to that fake leak? Plus what I think was overlooked was that whoever made that leak actually did their research and chose characters that, for one reason or another, had existing reasons to believe they'd be included. They didn't pick those characters out of the blue.
 
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Yeah, it's alright. But it's certainly far from a confirmation of anything. I mean Hines doesn't even refer to any IP in particular, people just assume it's Doom-related.

Leads me to wonder how many people think the Doom Slayer popularity is owing exclusively to that fake leak? Plus what I think was overlooked was that whoever made that leak actually did their research and chose characters that, for one reason or another, actually has existing reasons to believe they'd be included. They didn't pick those characters out of the blue.
Hard to argue against Steve, Hayabusa, and Doom Guy received more buzz at around the same time. Hell, there was also that Google Theory, which people for some reason took seriously. No doubt that increased talk about Hayabusa and Doom.
 
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Sysreq

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I have a question for you all: when do you think Terry is coming out in November?

I personally think right in the beginning like Banjo. From what I can tell, his model is done. I can't imagine him having too complicated of a moveset like Hero or a gimmick like Joker, so there's not much to improve on there. Plus we saw some of the stage, too. So that'd be pretty neat, especially if they reveal FP5 along with his presentation. If not, there'll most likely be a Nov. Nintendo Direct mini that he can be a part of like there was last year on Nov. 1st.
 
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Nquoid

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The same reason why now all of a sudden people are expecting Over watch characters.
I'm not expecting an Overwatch character. But in terms of western characters with world wide popularity that exposes Smash to new markets, there aren't many franchises better to pull from than Overwatch (or other Blizzard franchises tbh)
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Not to say that Bandwagoning is absolutely a thing but, like, I've been pulling for Doom Slayer since Doom (2016) was announced for Switch:
Ok so I'm about to make what I consider my idealish roster but I'm also keeping it realistic so here goes.
Mario::4mario::4luigi::4peach::4bowser::4bowserjr:(:4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig:):rosalina::4drmario:(Captain Toad)
Yoshi::4yoshi:
Wario::4wario:(:4wario2:)
DK::4dk::4diddy:(K. Rool/Cranky/Dixie)
Kirby::4kirby::4dedede::4metaknight:(Bandana Dee)
Zelda::4link::4zelda::4ganondorf::4sheik::4tlink:
Metroid::4samus::4zss:(Ridley)
Star Fox::4fox::4falco::wolf:
Pokemon::4pikachu::4charizard::4jigglypuff::4lucario::4greninja::4mewtwo:(Decidueye)
F-Zero::4falcon:
Earthbound::4ness::4lucas:
Fire Emblem::4marth::4myfriends::4robinm:(:4robinf:):4lucina::4feroy::4corrin:(:4corrinf:)
Pikmin::4olimar:(:4alph:)
Kid Icarus::4pit::4palutena::4darkpit:
Animal Crossing::4villager:(:4villagerf:)
Punch Out!!::4littlemac:(:4wiremac:)
Wii Fit::4wiifit:(:4wiifitm:)
Mii::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
Xenoblade::4shulk:(Rex)
Retro/whatever::4gaw::4rob::popo:(Takamaru)
New Franchises -
Splatoon: Inkling Boy and Girl
Arms: Spring Man (Ribbon Girl as alternate)
3rd Parties -
Konami: :snake:(Bomberman)
Sega::4bayonetta:(:4bayonetta2:):4sonic:
Capcom::4megaman::4ryu:
Namco-Bandai::4pacman:
Square::4cloud:(:4cloud2:)

Tecmo-Koei(?): Hayabusa

Activision(?): Crash

Bethesda (?): Doom Slayer
No cuts. I'm kinda still in the advanced port boat. I mean it took us from April 2015 to February 2016 to get the 7 DLC characters we got which were all, with the exception of maybe Lucas, built from the ground up. I feel like in the 2+ years between the end of DLC to the potential release of the Switch version, they could easily keep the entire roster, bring back the cut vets, and add a few new characters in the process.

All in all the characters that would be added to the complete Wii U Version of the game with this version tally up to 10, 13 counting the cut veterans, which I think is a decent enough number to make people want the game but not too much to be unrealistic.

Anyways, Newcomers ~
Captain Toad: Honestly I'm not too sure about him but if there were to be another Mario Character to be added he'd be a good bet since he's been in, I think, all 5 past 3D Mario games.

K. Rool/Dixie/Cranky:
So each one of these characters have something going for them. Depending on what happens with the potential 3rd Returns game I think all of them are possible and I think they are all deserving but I don't think more than one will get in. My choice would be K. Rool cause we just simply need more villains. I think the likely choice is Dixie though.

Bandana Dee:
He could make an incredibly interesting Character with his quick spear attacks and I feel like if another Kirby Character was EVER added to Smash ever again it would be him. He's the only one that fits the bill and he's super popular.

Ridley:
So, uh, what to say that hasn't been said before? I will say that I don't think Metroid will get another newcomer unless it's Ridley. So I went ahead and went for it because (spoilers) Mercury Steam made him look a little more plausible as a fighter in Samus Returns final boss fight.

Decidueye: You could basically trade him out for any Pokemon from this Gen or next. I do think we'll get a new Pokemon but I don't know what Pokemon we'll get. Decidueye is the most popular as of now, and he's rather interesting so I put him here. Shout outs to Incenaroar though.

Rex:
I'm getting more and more the feeling that Nintendo really REALLY wants to push Xenoblade as it's defacto RPG franchise, RIP the dream of Golden Sun, especially after seeing how much they pushed Xenoblade X. So I'm willing to bet that the new protagonist from 2 may take a slot on the roster. Either as a clone of Shulk or as a brand new, unique fighter doesn't matter.

Takamaru:
This is a personal choice. I adore this Character. I've been an avid supporter of him since I joined the boards and I feel like with him being considered in both Brawl and Wii U he is at his most likely now. Cap that with his popularity and potential for a unique moveset, I feel like his chances are better than good.

Bomberman:
I've wanted Bomberman in Smash for a while but I don't think it would ever happen because of Snake and I was totally fine with that but seeing how Sega and Capcom both got two reps I feel like Bomberman and Snake can coexist in the same game. I don't think they'd go after Bomberman without also getting back Snake so I think they're, in a way, tied to each other.

Doom Slayer, Crash, and Hayabusa:
These are more of just what-if's. I feel like they all have a possibility but I don't think they're at all likely. Like, in the slightest. However, if they choose to continue to build off of the game with DLC I think these characters could be potential contenders on the DLC space.

Alright that's it I think. Go ahead. Rip my roster a new one.

Edit: I really REALLY wanted to add Isaac in here as well. Thinking about it if I had to take out one of the newcomers I chose above for Isaac, it'd easily be Rex. But as I said I think Nintendo is trying to make Xenoblade their #1 RPG so 50/50 between Rex and Isaac I guess.
And Hayabusa since, well, since I joined the site.
So is there any possibility "Ryu" is "Ryu" Hayabusa?





...please?
(This is the oldest post I could care to find)
 
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The Doom Guy and Hayabusa surge in speculation was a result of the now debunked 5chan leak. I have no reason why people are serious about their chances without evidence.
Well... I don't know about Doom Guy but some people still have hope that IAmShifty is right about Hayabusa but was just wrong about him being the 4th figther of the pass. Someone in the Hayabusa thread ( Brother AJ Brother AJ ) made a pretty good rundown of IAmShifty's track record so far. I'll just drop it here in case anyone is interested:
In the first leak video I can find on his channel, he reveals that a source is telling him Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar are coming to the game. At this point Vergeben had already leaked Isabelle, Ken, and a gen 7 rep, but did not confirm it was Incineroar until after Shifty's vid. This same video also confirms that Isabelle was the very next fighter that would be revealed (which was true), and that Rathalos, Dracula, and Marx would show up as bosses in the then unknown blurred out mode (Spirits Mode).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdYhLFiJIsY

His next leak video claims that Box Theory was true, which was correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2wX71R-G1I

This next video claims Ultimate DLC would go on for two years, and in all honesty it looks like this will come to pass. This at least would've made us aware that DLC would continue after the fighter pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcmAVb8sGz0&t=291s

The next one was a leak of the Smash Direct in November. He revealed a second source which was recommended by his first source in all the previous videos. This source claimed that the Direct would be coming November 2nd. It actually turned out to be the first, but it was pretty damn close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfcEwxiNdGk&t=1s

This is the last leak video before the Ryu vid where he deconfirms the Grinch leak, and confirms Piranha Plant of all characters (PP was leaked by the second source).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Wq3uuPDyg

Finally we have the Ryu videos. Obviously there was controversy surrounding these videos because he claimed Ryu, in no uncertain terms, would be the 4th DLC fighter. This turned out not to be the case. The second video, which discusses the SNK leak, claims that neither of his sources knew of SNK being in the game (indeed, almost no one seemed to), but reiterated that they had heard Ryu would certainly be in the fighter pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcwSKSy-nIY&t=6s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWP1fHUK0kA&t=1s

So most of his claims have been proven true. One has yet to be confirmed (DLC lasting 2 years), and 2 were proven to be wrong (although the direct date was very close). The Ryu leak still has the possibility to be partially right if he turns out to be the last fighter on the FP.

As for this possibly being mixed up information with Ryu being added to Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate, IAmShifty told PapaGenos that this was possible, but unlikely because he claims his sources come directly from Nintendo. He says it doesn't make sense for his sources to confuse the Ryu leak with a game that Nintendo has no involvement with. Here is a link to a video that displays this conversation starting at 13:51:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUHvd0KGTCg&t=888s

There's definitely a precedent for this. Most people still trust Vergeben even though we've yet to see Minecraft content and the fact that he said the first DLC character would be a SE rep. His source knew of the SE character, but not precisely when they would arrive. We continue to trust him because he has gotten so much correct in the past, and the same is true for IAmShifty. I think it is plainly clear at this point that Shifty has legitimate sources as Vergeben does.

Personally, i don't want to put too much stock in rumors and 'leaks' (i just want to see Hayabusa get in Smash). But yeah, i agree that the 5Chan 'leak' helped put Hayabusa on the map in terms of speculation. I remember before Ultimate's release about a year ago, the support thread was pretty much dead and it was very rare to see his name mentioned in the base roster speculation.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Doomguy getting more popular also has 1 key influence. They released a new Doom game in 2016 with incredibly positive reception that ended up selling millions, reviving the franchise. While bandwagonning is part of it, there's a lot of people who greatly enjoyed that gem of a game when it came out nearly 4 years ago with a highly anticipated sequel soon, a lot of Smash wants are based on "I like this game" so naturally a highly successful game has people wanting more
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Not to say that Bandwagoning is absolutely a thing but, like, I've been pulling for Doom Slayer since Doom (2016) was announced for Switch
Same for me with Prince of All Cosmos and Dragonborn ever since Katamari Damacy Reroll and Skyrim Switch were announced. ****, I was even hoping for the Prince since the Smash 4 DLC days!
 
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One thing about Terry is that his games have less attack buttons than Street Fighter so he may not have as many normals as the Shotos. Maybe he'll have a super/Max meter instead
Does Fatal Fury have EX moves like King of Fighters? I can't get it out of my head that he could be super simple or super complicated depending on how much Sakurai thinks is necessary. I do know that Terry does have a lot of specials (at least in later titles), and if you add EX versions on top of that he'd have almost too much.
 

Velveeta Dream

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This whole thing reminds me of when Joker was first announced and people convinced themselves that Persona 5 was totally coming to Switch in an attempt to rationalize his inclusion. When it was revealed that all the Switch would get was a musou game and Royal was still a PS4 exclusive, there were a ton of angry rant videos with titles among the lines of "ATLUS LIED TO US GAMERS!!!" because they couldn't wrap their head around the fact that not everything in the game industry revolves around Smash.
I still find it funny there were people that thought Joker was in Smash merely to promote a Musou game.





...and on the topic of Musou, how would people feel if a character from either Dynasty Warriors or Samurai Warriors is in Smash before Hayabusa?
 

Cutie Gwen

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Does Fatal Fury have EX moves like King of Fighters? I can't get it out of my head that he could be super simple or super complicated depending on how much Sakurai thinks is necessary. I do know that Terry does have a lot of specials (at least in later titles), and if you add EX versions on top of that he'd have almost too much.
I believe not as EX Burn Knuckle is blue in KoF when that's the standard colour of it in FF.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I still find it funny there were people that thought Joker was in Smash merely to promote a Musou game.





...and on the topic of Musou, how would people feel if a character from either Dynasty Warriors or Samurai Warriors is in Smash before Hayabusa?
Don't both of those break the Video Game rule since they're based on real life figures?
 

Velveeta Dream

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Don't both of those break the Video Game rule since they're based on real life figures?
I've said quite a lot of arguments to why that wouldn't be the case, so I'll give 2 simple answers to why that wouldn't be the case:

-While everything in the games are relating to actual events (or exaggerated versions of such events), Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors are video game franchises. They have as much of a chance in Smash as many other video game franchises that exist.
-The characters are Koei-Tecmo's interpretation of them which would make them distinct enough from design and personality to be recognized as a video game character or at least a video game version of said character.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I've said quite a lot of arguments to why that wouldn't be the case, so I'll give 2 simple answers to why that wouldn't be the case:

-While everything in the games are relating to actual events (or exaggerated versions of such events), Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors are video game franchises. They have as much of a chance in Smash as many other video game franchises that exist.
-The characters are Koei-Tecmo's interpretation of them which would make them distinct enough from design and personality to be recognized as a video game character or at least a video game version of said character.
I get ya. I mean as far as I'm aware I still feel like Geralt has a shot at making it because he's from the game interpretation of a book series but eh, we'll see.

Back to the question though, I'd be down for it especially if it's Yukimura as I love the franchise, but I don't at all see it happening. If Koei-Tecmo is getting a rep I feel like it has to be Hayabusa. Kasumi is the only second option I can see but even still if they're going for a Dead or Alive character, which I wouldn't think they would, I still think it'd be Hayabusa.
 

Flyboy

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If one wants to entertain a Tales rep, we can start here.
As much as I want to entertain the idea, wouldn't they just use the Symphonia logo a la the Sm4sh costume (or Berseria in the insane timeline in which we get Velvet)? Unless this is used for a collection of Mii costumes...?
 
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