Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[yeet123]

Honestly they should only add Banjo-Kazooie characters for the rest of the DLC so we get more remixed music.

Gruntilda is the most wanted character in Japan on MySpace. real ****

 

[Nquoid]

I don't think this thread even knows what't recognizable in America.

Both Persona and Dragon Quest sell well in US and have significant English-speaking fanbases, yet a lot of people here acted like they are Japan-only, obscure RPGs when they got into Smash.

There's so many biases going on within the speculation community.

Theres a Nintendo bias, Western bias, JRPG bias. Then theres an anti bias to all of those. It's what makes this all a little exhausting sometimes.

There are genuinely games and characters that are brought up here as being sensible choices that I literally never see brought up on any other gaming space. And I'm not even talking about stuff like SNK, which whilst I fully admit to downplaying their odds, that was only because I thought Tekken would end up in the game first. (Lol my own personal bias)

 

[GoodGrief741]

And why exactly is that?

Because it's well known that Doom sells very poorly in Japan, while Crash is very popular over there. So any stats that would appear to say otherwise are either skewed or being misinterpreted.

It's likely that the high number of Googles is simply due to people in Japan Googling Doom because they don't know what it is.

 

[The_Naraotor]

I think this thread over rates the need for recognizably when it comes to character picks, especially American recognizably. I don't think it's as important as this thread thinks it is.

I disagree, the thread has a problem with recognizing characters who don't get talked about here much, it's how Hat Ken exists

Quit to have another iconic character for PC platform, why not add Gordon Freeman from Half Life who could be a good alternative to Doomguy. Gordon Freeman is as recognizable as Doomguy and represent as well the FPS Genre. Though the con of it is I don't know if there was Half Life game on Nintendo console and I don't know the relationship between Valve and Nintendo as of late ?

 

[IceKitsune]

Let's be real here.....Doom Slayer would be either way too OP for Mortal Kombat or just not him at all.
The main thing about Doom isn't the gore, it's the FAST PACED GAMEPLAY
You're always moving fast with the Slayer, and with a fighting game as cramped AND as slow as MK, I don't feel he fits in better than in Smash, literally the celebration of gaming as a whole.
Even Id Software expressed this in one of their interview I think (the one at Quakecon), where they even mentionned Smash Bros
So IMO Doom Slayer should be the first FPS character + could very well be the next fighter due to certain evidences popping up
I'm not saying he's a lock, but he'd just be awesome and leave a huge impact for the end of the fighters pass

If you want an ID Software character again Commander Keen fits this game far better than Doom Guy, if you need an FPS character anyone from TF2 would fit better. The idea that the Doom Slayer wouldn't work in MK is absolutely laughable to me, but this thread isn't about that.

I disagree, the thread has a problem with recognizing characters who don't get talked about here much, it's how Hat Ken exists

I don't think this thread even knows what't recognizable in America.

Both Persona and Dragon Quest sell well in US and have significant English-speaking fanbases, yet a lot of people here acted like they are Japan-only, obscure RPGs when they got into Smash.

This is my point though, this thread doesn't really know what exactly is actually recognizable because it is a huge bubble that only talks to itself. It completely overrates certain characters and ignores or underrates others to such an extreme degree. Its way to insular for its own good.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

There's so many biases going on within the speculation community.

Theres a Nintendo bias, Western bias, JRPG bias. Then theres an anti bias to all of those. It's what makes this all a little exhausting sometimes.

There are genuinely games and characters that are brought up here as being sensible choices that I literally never see brought up on any other gaming space. And I'm not even talking about stuff like SNK, which whilst I fully admit to downplaying their odds, that was only because I thought Tekken would end up in the game first. (Lol my own personal bias)

So in the grand scheme of things we all know nothing and should just wait and see

 

[Nquoid]

So in the grand scheme of things we all know nothing and should just wait and see

But I want to *pretend* like I know **** and claim all the glory

 

[NoOtherPersona]

But I want to *pretend* like I know **** and claim all the glory

That's the way of a speculator

 

[RileyXY1]

If you want an ID Software character again Commander Keen fits this game far better than Doom Guy, if you need an FPS character anyone from TF2 would fit better. The idea that the Doom Slayer wouldn't work in MK is absolutely laughable to me, but this thread isn't about that.




This is my point though, this thread doesn't really know what exactly is actually recognizable because it is a huge bubble that only talks to itself. It completely overrates certain characters and ignores or underrates others to such an extreme degree. Its way to insular for its own good.

A character "suiting" Smash is a bad argument.

 

[The_Naraotor]

There's so many biases going on within the speculation community.

Theres a Nintendo bias, Western bias, JRPG bias. Then theres an anti bias to all of those. It's what makes this all a little exhausting sometimes.

There are genuinely games and characters that are brought up here as being sensible choices that I literally never see brought up on any other gaming space. And I'm not even talking about stuff like SNK, which whilst I fully admit to downplaying their odds, that was only because I thought Tekken would end up in the game first. (Lol my own personal bias)

And then there is people like me who have no bias and throw wild idea because of reason.

Commander Keen

Who's Commander Keen ? First time hearing of this guy. The fact that I need to ask who's this guy is speak loudly whereas Doomguy doesn't need to present himself because his game Doom created the terms DOOMLIKE. Doomguy is that influenceable.

 

[RoboFist]

PERSONAL OPINION

I think this current Fighter’s Pass we’re in was tailored to appeal to as global a demographic as possible, and it kind of shows: Hero seemed tailored to Japanese audiences, Banjo & Kazooie for US audiences, and Terry for the Latin American audiences (Joker, I think, acted as the bombshell to got people hyped for the Pass). Remember, Nintendo picked these characters, so it makes sense to assume that there was a financial and business-savvy reason as to why.

If we’re looking for some kind of trend to predict the final DLC fighter in this Pass (which, again, is impossible, but I’ll humor this thread anyway), I think we need to look at what’s popular in China.

Now, I’m super ignorant on global video gaming trends, but a quick Google search tells me that home consoles and arcade cabinets were actually banned from China in 2000, and the ban was only lifted in 2015. Because of this, PC games and eSports exploded in popularity. So if Nintendo really wants to appeal to a Chinese audience with this 5th fighter, we probably need to look at MMOs, MOBAs, hero shooters, and other PC-centric titles. Which will probably make a large chunk of the Smash Bros fanbase extremely unhappy.

But humor me here. If we were going to get a character that represented PC gaming, who could it be?

Minecraft’s Steve is the most obvious choice to me. He has global appeal, represents indie gaming, and – again – hails from what may be the biggest game of the 21st century so far (whether we want to admit it or not). Of all the characters in the Fighter’s Pass so far, a Minecraft rep would be the first truly recognizable character to Chinese audiences (except maybe Terry?). Again, between the Shovel Knight AT and the Sans Mii Costume, I really think that Sakurai's been prepping us for a legitimate indie rep, and Steve could be it.

This could also be the best time to get a genuine Blizzard or Valve rep. A lot of people are terrified of getting an Overwatch character (which, as someone who loves Overwatch, I completely understand and even agree with), but what about someone from World of Warcraft? I’ve never played the game, but I always considered it the game that brought MMOs into the mainstream, and the characters (especially the…orcs? Are they orcs? I dunno, whatever) have a pretty distinct and visually appealing art style. If we go the Steam route, I could honestly see someone like Chell getting in (leave her portal-centric moveset up to Sakurai, and I’d love to see a stage featuring GLaDOS).

Again though, I am hilariously ignorant when it comes to PC games, but I’m sure there are plenty of franchises and characters that could fit into a Smash game.

 

[Nquoid]

And then there is people like me who have no bias and throw wild idea because of reason

I've decided I'm now going to exclusively back Kalas from Baten Kaitos.

Screw you KOS-MOS and Rex, we all know where Monolith's true loyalties lie

(This isn't meant as a dig to Baten Kaitos btw)

 

[shinhed-echi]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

As in, I don’t care much about the characters, but the music?

- Double Dragon (including Neon)
- Contra (including Hard Corps Uprising)

 

[The_Naraotor]

Imagine a Street of Rage rep with Axel the music oh glorious

Final Smash a car cop arrive in scene and launch a salve of rocket in the stage

 

[IceKitsune]

A character "suiting" Smash is a bad argument.

Why exactly is that a bad argument? Do you think that something like that is not considered when picking a character for the game?

Who's Commander Keen ? First time hearing of this guy. The fact that I need to ask who's this guy is speak loudly whereas Doomguy doesn't need to present himself because his game Doom created the terms DOOMLIKE. Doomguy is that influenceable.

First things first its not Doomlike, no one ever said that ever, it was Doom Clone so I don't know where in the world you heard the term Doomlike. Commader Keen was an old PC platformer from the late 80s early 90s. Yeah Commander Keen doesn't have the recognizably any more I was just throwing out the first one I could think of. on the other hand however there is that new Commander Keen game by Bethesda that is coming out. Sure its a crappy mobile game but they would want to promote it.

Also just because you don't recognize the name doesn't mean that the character isn't influential or well known by people outside of those you know. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be happy if Doom Slayer got in I'm just saying that others make more sense for the game than him and he makes far more sense for a game like MK. The idea that this game is going to perfectly capture Doom is honestly pretty hard to believe, as good as Sakurai and his team are I don't think they could easily pull it off like some people here think they can they are going to have to cut back on so many things it wouldn't be funny.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Minecraft’s Steve is the most obvious choice to me. He has global appeal, represents indie gaming, and – again – hails from what may be the biggest game of the 21st century so far (whether we want to admit it or not). Of all the characters in the Fighter’s Pass so far, a Minecraft rep would be the first truly recognizable character to Chinese audiences (except maybe Terry?). Again, between the Shovel Knight AT and the Sans Mii Costume, I really think that Sakurai's been prepping us for a legitimate indie rep, and Steve could be it.

As much as I’d love for this to be the case, would Steve count as an indie rep? I know he’s representative of indie success, but Minecraft is one of those big titles now.

 

[The_Naraotor]

First things first its not Doomlike, no one ever said that ever, it was Doom Clone so I don't know where in the world you heard the term Doomlike. Commader Keen was an old PC platformer from the late 80s early 90s. Yeah Commander Keen doesn't have the recognizably any more I was just throwing out the first one I could think of. on the other hand however there is that new game by Bethesda that is coming out. Sure its a crappy mobile game but they would want to promote it.

I live in France and here we call that a Doomlike game pretty sure in several European country they use also this terms.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't be happy if Doom Slayer got in I'm just saying that others make more sense for the game than him and he makes far more sense for a game like MK.

Is it because Doom is from a game that has a lot of blood and violence in it that you seems to believe that Doomguy fit more in Mortal Kombat than Smash ? If that the case then relax because Doomguy will come in Smash without the gore stuff.

 

[tenworldsguy]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

In general- Advance Wars. Nearly every track is a bop that could easily fit into smash with slight modification. And yet, Smash refuses to acknowledge it as a whole sans two spirits and nothing else... interesting.

Third party- DOOM, hard. Those soundtracks are the epitome of adrenaline.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Why exactly is that a bad argument? Do you think that something like that is not considered when picking a character for the game?

I really don't think Sakurai thought to himself, "You know who'd fit into Smash Bros.? Solid Snake, who is from an M rated game and has minimal relations with Nintendo" during Brawl's development. Or "Man, Bayonetta from the M rated game Bayonetta would be such a great choice as the final DLC character in my E10+ rated game. Let's throw in Cloud Strife who barely shows up on Nintendo consoles at all while we're at it. He's a natural inclusion."

Like, that is such a non-factor since Sakurai has brought in whoever the **** he wanted and made them fit into Smash Bros. It's essentially just a matter of opinion of what you feel "fits" into Smash Bros.

 

[IceKitsune]

I live in France and here we call that a Doomlike game pretty sure in several European country they use also this terms.



Is it because Doom is from a game that has a lot of blood and violence in it that you seems to believe that Doomguy fit more in Mortal Kombat than Smash ? If that the case then relax because Doomguy will come in Smash without the gore stuff.

Ok see I didn't know that about Europe, looks like I'm guilty about making some assumptions about things myself. The lack of Gore is kind of my point. If you take away the most iconic parts of Doom is it really Doom anymore? You have to remove the demonic imagery and the blood and gore then what is the point of having the Doom Slayer in this game? He just becomes a generic FPS marine at that point. You might as well make him a Mii costume. Which I think is a more likely outcome anyway.

 

[osby]

Also just because you don't recognize the name doesn't mean that the character isn't influential or well known by people outside of those you know. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be happy if Doom Slayer got in I'm just saying that others make more sense for the game than him and he makes far more sense for a game like MK. The idea that this game is going to perfectly capture Doom is honestly pretty hard to believe, as good as Sakurai and his team are I don't think they could easily pull it off like some people here think they can they are going to have to cut back on so many things it wouldn't be funny.

What isn't funny is that people don't get characters can be toned down for Smash after Bayo. She doesn't strip, but she's not a generic action heroine either.

And fighters don't need to be "perfectly captured". Joker doesn't use a lot of his magic skills and instead uses made-up moves like Rebel's Guard. Is it perfect by any means? No. But his personality, style and abilities are there, so who cares.

 

[Nekoo]

live in France and here we call that a Doomlike game pretty sure in several European country they use also this terms.

Can confirm as a French Myself. We do say "Doomlike" just like people like to use "Metroidvania".

 

[Wunderwaft]

As much as I’d love for this to be the case, would Steve count as an indie rep? I know he’s representative of indie success, but Minecraft is one of those big titles now.

Minecraft at it's core is spiritually indie. It's a game that was created from a creative mind without corporate backing. Sure the game has become insanely popular and is owned by Microsoft now, but that doesn't erase it's roots and how it had a development cycle of an indie game. By the time Microsoft bought the IP, the game was already very popular and big. Minecraft achieved it's success when it was still an indie title, and not when Microsoft bought it. So while Minecraft technically isn't indie now, it left a huge legacy that impacted the indie scene in the west. Minecraft's shocking success caused a renaissance where tons of indie titles started coming out.

 

[IceKitsune]

What isn't funny is that people don't get characters can be toned down for Smash after Bayo. She doesn't strip, but she's not a generic action heroine either.

And fighters don't need to be "perfectly captured". Joker doesn't use a lot of his magic skills and instead uses made-up moves like Rebel's Guard. Is it perfect by any means? No. But his personality, style and abilities are there, so who cares.

Yes that is because those characters have a personality to work off of. There is more to them than just the world of their games. The Doom Slayer has nothing outside of the world of his games to work off of. He has no personality whatsoever. That is kind of the point of the character, the interesting thing about Doom is killing demons and the world around the Doom Slayer, not the Doom Slayer himself.

If you remove the Blood, Gore, The Demons and the references to Hell what are you left with? Really nothing, this is why Doom could be cloned and turned into a million different games. Hell one of them was Chex Quest a game with a made on the spot Cereal Mascot, while it is extremely good its nothing like Doom outside of using the same engine.

 

[RileyXY1]

It's a bad argument to say that a character is "too violent" for Smash because they can very easily be toned down, such as with Bayonetta.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes that is because those characters have a personality to work off of. There is more to them than just the world of their games. The Doom Slayer has nothing outside of the world of his games to work off of. He has no personality whatsoever. That is kind of the point of the character, the interesting thing about Doom is killing demons and the world around the Doom Slayer, not the Doom Slayer himself.

If you remove the Blood, Gore, The Demons and the references to Hell what are you left with? Really nothing, this is why Doom could be cloned and turned into a million different games. Hell one of them was Chex Quest a game with a made on the spot Cereal Mascot, while it is extremely good its nothing like Doom outside of using the same engine.

Slayer absolutely shows personality, what game were you playing? Slayer is obviously super pissed and brutal, but also has a silly side. He fistbumps little action figures, when dying in lava he decides "Welp, better reference Terminator 2", he has a bunny as a pet showing he has a soft spot for cute things, etc

 

[TheCJBrine]

Minecraft at it's core is spiritually indie. It's a game that was created from a creative mind without corporate backing. Sure the game has become insanely popular and is owned by Microsoft now, but that doesn't erase it's roots and how it had a development cycle of an indie game. By the time Microsoft bought the IP, the game was already very popular and big. Minecraft achieved it's success when it was still an indie title, and not when Microsoft bought it. So while Minecraft technically isn't indie now, it left a huge legacy that impacted the indie scene in the west. This caused a renaissance where tons of indie titles started coming out due to Minecraft's shocking success.

That makes sense.

I knew it was huge before Microsoft obtained it, I just wasn’t sure about the indie thing counting anymore. I would very much love it if Sakurai has this in mind.

 

[The_Naraotor]

Slayer absolutely shows personality, what game were you playing? Slayer is obviously super pissed and brutal, but also has a silly side. He fistbumps little action figures, when dying in lava he decides "Welp, better reference Terminator 2", he has a bunny as a pet showing he has a soft spot for cute things, etc

Oh gawd please someone photoshop Doomslayer blushing facing a mirror whilst wearing the bunny hear from Smash lmao.

 

[Jassassino]

As my name may suggest, I'd love Ezio to make an appearance.

 

[osby]

Yes that is because those characters have a personality to work off of. There is more to them than just the world of their games. The Doom Slayer has nothing outside of the world of his games to work off of. He has no personality whatsoever. That is kind of the point of the character, the interesting thing about Doom is killing demons and the world around the Doom Slayer, not the Doom Slayer himself.

You'd think people would stop using this argument after we got Villager.

 

[RileyXY1]

You'd think people would stop using this argument after we got Villager.

And Wii Fit Trainer, as well as freaking Piranha Plant.

 

[IceKitsune]

Look I don't get how The Doom Slayer would work in this game nor do I think he would feel anything like the Doom Slayer at all whatsoever if he was in it, but I'm clearly in the extreme minority here. If he is in at any point on this fighters pass or the next I will applogize to everyone in this thread for being a complete moron.

 

[RoboFist]

You'd think people would stop using this argument after we got Villager.

Or Wii Fit Trainer.

Or f-ing ROB.

Hell, you could make the argument that neither Pac-Man, Wario, Snake, nor Ness/Lucas "accurately represent" the gameplay styles of their respective games. But in terms of Smash, they do a well enough job and nobody's really complaining. In fact, when characters are too accurate to their games (Little Mac, the Belmonts, Bayonetta) people do complain.

I'm beginning to think that whining is the lifeblood of Smash speculation...

EDIT: I'm now imagining a scenario in which Snake wasn't in Smash yet and people were speculating about whether or not he would get in this pass.

"Snake in Smash? Impossible. His entire series is about stealth and political intrigue, which would be impossible to implement into a game like Smash! Also, what would his moveset be? He only uses guns! Yeah, we got Joker and Bayonetta, but Snake's games are much more rooted in gritty realism than Bayonetta and Persona. If you take the stealth elements away from Snake, then he's just a generic secret agent. Sorry, but he just wouldn't fit in Smash, it's impossible."

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Look I don't get how The Doom Slayer would work in this game nor do I think he would feel anything like the Doom Slayer at all whatsoever if he was in it.

The problem is that you're arguing a personal opinion when it's not at all backed by fact or precedent.

Either you should back up your opinion with facts or acknowledge that it's an opinion not backed by anything other than your feelings. Otherwise yeah, you're going to get hard bodied by people who disagree and have the evidence to do so.

 

[Sigman]

A lot of popular franchises in other regions still come from Japan though as evidenced by something like SNK being included. I don't know if there are a ton of Western made franchises that manage the same popularity in other parts of the world, except for maybe parts of Europe in some cases. I guess the Western market feels a bit more insular than the Japanese market on average, though, I don't have the data to make those definitive claims. Something like Undertale being so successful in Japan again is more of the exception and not the rule from what I've seen.




2B hasn't really appeared on a Nintendo console, so I don't think she quite fits with the others. I mean Sakurai did praise Nier Automata, so that is a point in her favor for sure, but she just seems a little bit removed still.

2B is in Phantasy Star Online 2.

 

[TheCJBrine]

You'd think people would stop using this argument after we got Villager.

Even Ness had barely any personality outside of his homesickness and his photo pose, and you could name him. This also goes for Link in some games (you can still name him in just about all of them, though), and the DQ Hero (from what I can tell from the DQ 11 demo, forgive me if some games or later on this one show more than a vague personality from the hero as I realize this may be the case).

I’d also say Lucas but he actually shows more than Ness and a decent amount, too, which fits what’s going on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One thing I'd like to know is that if we had an infinite budge meaning infinite newcomers, who would people here add? Only rule is only 5 new franchises, but those can have as many newcomers as you want

 

[Ornl]

Google Trends is a poor method of gauging popularity. All it gauges is how much something was searched for on Google. Few problems with this. For starters, Google is not the only search engine. I personally run Ecosia since I like how they plant trees with their profits. However, the greatest hurdle that this has is it only relies on how often a franchise has been googled within a certain period of time. Doom might have gotten much more searches lately since it seems like every other leak the community latches onto has Doomguy in it. Also, in terms of pure sales in Japan Crash trounces Doomguy.

Research Google Trends in Japan could have helped to guess new content from Dragon Quest and Persona in Ultimate. Google remains the most generic search engine (91%, 90 in Japan). So it doesn't matter who uses it or not. When a series is old enough, it's possible to have an average of research since 2006. So it doesn't matter the punctual influence of some leaks. If all searches for DOOM are higher than for Crash, despite its lower sales, then the Google Trends measure could questions the Crash trend in post-PS1 Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I'd like to know is that if we had an infinite budge meaning infinite newcomers, who would people here add? Only rule is only 5 new franchises, but those can have as many newcomers as you want

Crash Bandicoot, Adeleine, Mach Rider, Guybrush Threepwood from Monkey Island, Layton, Spyro, Jill Valentine with a Leon alt and Agumon.

 

[Pinguino21v]

but what about someone from World of Warcraft?

Nobody talk about it, but, indeed, a Warcraft character would be a big "wow" like were Snake and Cloud. I don't know if Warcraft have a huge follow-up in Japan however, Overwatch may be more known from Blizzard.
As for the character, it would probably be the shaman orc Thrall, who is probably the more recognizable and liked character of the serie. And he could have a really interesting moveset with hammer hits, chain lightning, totems and spectral wolfs.

Thinking about it, I feel it's weird Warcraft doesn't have more support and talk than that.