Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[NoOtherPersona]

the DLC for first-party should be to fill in blanks like characters who should be there or easy echos and that's it really

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Persona series sold over 10 million copies recently.
Dragon Quest sold more than 70 million copies, before it comes to Switch, that is.
Banjo-Kazooie sold approximately 5.3 million copies, with just 5 games.

You and I have very different definitions of "a small pool".

Obviously the number of people who play third-party games is not a small pool. I assumed he was referring to the number of people who will buy Smash Ultimate because of DLC characters (of course we don't have data on that).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'd like to reiterate that I don't think Smash will only have third party DLC choices, I certainly acknowledge that we might see one or two first party choices. I just think we've hit the point of diminishing returns on most first party options and that there isn't some great, wide field of first party options left that are actually going to inspire people in the roster and the game. Yes, every character out there has their fans, but I mean, we're actively seeing just how much of the fan base and, especially, the general population has moved towards third party picks. Half the Smash fan base not only openly accepts them, but wants them more than first parties. We're down to B and mostly C tier options for Smash in terms of first parties, whereas we still have S tier options for Smash when you look at third parties. And this, this moment, is the opportunity to make crossover stuff with third party characters happen because we will likely never get a better shot at such a thing.

A couple of characters is fine, and there should be a very minor degree of balance between the two, but you have to take the opportunities when they're available, and for realizing Smash as the crossover of gaming and not just Nintendo, this is the opportunity. The last thing we should be pushing for is a hard swing back to first parties just to satisfy a minority body of disgruntled fans who are annoyed that Smash is no longer just a Nintendo crossover. Throw in a Rex/Pyra and a Bandanna Dee and a Geno to split the difference between first and third parties, and you've knocked out a whole bunch of fan requests and drained even more of the barely there well. Sakurai said game worlds and talked about going for this big crossover and the Fighter's Pass speaks for itself, it's clear his intentions favor third parties moving forward.

 

[Vycoul]

Just a quick thought on the Hat Ken thing:
Maybe I'm bias because I don't care for Ha- I mean, Terry, but I really wish people didn't act like jabs at a videogame character are the same as slapping someone's mother.

I wanted Banjo & Kazooie in Smash since before Melee. Before a Smash sequel was even guaranteed. I saw all sorts of insults leveled at them over the years, but when war with the Steve posters started and they started taking more heat than ever, I thought it was an absolute riot because I was 100% confident in the legacy Banjo and Kazooie left. And I would love B&K themed cereal.

Take heart Hat- darn it, Terry fans, you don't have to be so upset when someone doesn't share your appreciation for the character. The only person's who's opinion really mattered was Sakurai's. Trolls are going to troll, and anyone calling him unknown and undeserving is doing just that. I think you guys would do well to just laugh it off and not act like people are taking a dump in a bowl of holy water.

Of course, it's not just Terry fans, I think all fanbases could lighten up a little. People are so defensive of their characters that I think it's silly.

 

[TheCJBrine]

While I’d love some first-parties, I wouldn’t mind if it’s all third-parties. At least one first-party would be nice, though.

Just gimme Steve and Geno at least...

 

[Deleted member]

To give my opinion on the whole 3rd party vs 1st party thing my opinion boils down to; "Why not both?" Before I give my opinion though this is all just speculation and really we have no idea what's going to happen I could be right but I could also be wrong be it all 1st party or all 3rd party. It's too early to tell and right now for the time being it's anything goes until we get more info. It could be the exact same or completely different.

Anyways back to the topic at hand I personally could see it being primarily 3rd party characters but with a few 1st party characters sprinkled about within the additional DLC cast. I think while Nintendo could want to strike at possible new demographics and new 3rd party companies they could also seek to attract the preexisting fanbase compromised mostly of Nintendo fans. It really boils down to possible new demographics and 3rd party characters vs A preexisting fanbase and 1st party characters for me.

I assume most Smash fans are also Nintendo fans which is a preexisting demographic right there which Nintendo would like to keep interested and then there's the possible new demographics and fans of 3rd party characters and to get them interested they could throw in characters that may appeal to people outside of the Smash and Nintendo fanbase so Nintendo could go for a blend of both to keep both interested and happy.

Throw in a couple picks the core Nintendo/Smash fanbase would enjoy such as; Rex/Pyra, Geno, Waluigi and maybe Isaac and then throw in a couple of 3rd party characters that new demographics may enjoy and possibly even the Smash fanbase too such as; Doom Guy, Crash Bandicoot, Phoenix Wright/RE rep, Reimu, Sora, Travis Touchdown, Ryu Hayabusa, Steve Etc.

Make both happy and give us a blend of both. That way they could appeal to the fans by putting in some fan favorites (Geno, Isaac, Waluigi, Etc.) and attract new demographics with new and interesting 3rd party characters (Doom Guy, Crash, Reimu, Steve, Etc.) Sakurai already said with more DLC comes more opportunities to please the fans which is a lot more set in stone than whatever interpretation of the "New Worlds" comment you want to use.

And hey you could not only appeal to preexisting fans but also save some budget for bigger and bolder potential 3rd party choices as you'd be choosing in-house/second party characters. I dunno it's just a bit of speculation I could be very wrong and nothing is for sure.

I personally would like a mix of both that's for sure. People mention how this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for one of the biggest crossovers in gaming history and sure that's great I'd love to see the record expand but I also want to see the last huge and last remaining first party characters (Geno, Waluigi, Isaac, Rex/Pyra, Maybe Bandanna Dee, Dixie, Chorus Kids) get in before a potential overhaul on the mechanics and fundamentals of Smash itself.

So all in all I think we could be seeing a mix of both and I hope we get a mix of both but my viewpoint may have some degree of bias.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

My ideal fighters pass that mixes both first and third party characters would be:

1. Rex and Pyra
2. Bandana Dee
3. Isaac
4. Reimu/Lara Croft (take your pick)
5. Doomguy
6. Sora

If all those WoL slots got filled up, then I'd add:

1. Byleth
2. Akira Howard
3. Kyo Kusanagi
4. Phoenix Wright/Leon Kennedy

 

[DevaAshera]

My ideal fighters pass that mixes both first and third party characters would be:

1. Rex and Pyra
2. Bandana Dee
3. Isaac
4. Reimu/Lara Croft (take your pick)
5. Doomguy
6. Sora

Rex & Pyra and Sora and almost certainly At Doom's Gate as a song...Heck yeah, I'm down.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Just a quick thought on the Hat Ken thing:
Maybe I'm bias because I don't care for Ha- I mean, Terry, but I really wish people didn't act like jabs at a videogame character are the same as slapping someone's mother.

I wanted Banjo & Kazooie in Smash since before Melee. Before a Smash sequel was even guaranteed. I saw all sorts of insults leveled at them over the years, but when war with the Steve posters started and they started taking more heat than ever, I thought it was an absolute riot because I was 100% confident in the legacy Banjo and Kazooie left. And I would love B&K themed cereal.

Take heart Hat- darn it, Terry fans, you don't have to be so upset when someone doesn't share your appreciation for the character. The only person's who's opinion really mattered was Sakurai's. Trolls are going to troll, and anyone calling him unknown and undeserving is doing just that. I think you guys would do well to just laugh it off and not act like people are taking a dump in a bowl of holy water.

Of course, it's not just Terry fans, I think all fanbases could lighten up a little. People are so defensive of their characters that I think it's silly.

I get the point you're trying to get across and I agree with it, but it feels kind of disingenuous to try to convey it by also constantly making Hat Ken jokes.

 

[ze9]

I just want Dixie. Then it can be all 3rd party.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Just a quick thought on the Hat Ken thing:
Maybe I'm bias because I don't care for Ha- I mean, Terry, but I really wish people didn't act like jabs at a videogame character are the same as slapping someone's mother.

I wanted Banjo & Kazooie in Smash since before Melee. Before a Smash sequel was even guaranteed. I saw all sorts of insults leveled at them over the years, but when war with the Steve posters started and they started taking more heat than ever, I thought it was an absolute riot because I was 100% confident in the legacy Banjo and Kazooie left. And I would love B&K themed cereal.

Take heart Hat- darn it, Terry fans, you don't have to be so upset when someone doesn't share your appreciation for the character. The only person's who's opinion really mattered was Sakurai's. Trolls are going to troll, and anyone calling him unknown and undeserving is doing just that. I think you guys would do well to just laugh it off and not act like people are taking a dump in a bowl of holy water.

Of course, it's not just Terry fans, I think all fanbases could lighten up a little. People are so defensive of their characters that I think it's silly.

Just say Hat Terry like we all know you want to chief, no need to act differently

 

[Vycoul]

I get the point you're trying to get across and I agree with it, but it feels kind of disingenuous to try to convey it by also constantly making Hat Ken jokes.

I don't see it that way at all, seeing as my point is that poking fun at characters is by and large harmless.

Just say Hat Terry like we all know you want to chief, no need to act differently

I also implied that Banjo would make a great cereal mascot. Does that mean that I just wanted to sneak an insult in on my favorite videogame character? This is pretty much exactly the kind of defensiveness I was talking about.

Some teasing coming from people who are outside a character's fanbase is perfectly normal. Like I said, people saying that Terry is undeserving and completely niche is one thing. But poking fun at a character's appearance is really, really tame stuff.

...you cannot imagine how hard it was not to type "Hat Ken" at the end there.

 

[Ben Holt]

I feel like I'm in the minority now for really wanting Toad in Smash Bros.
I love third parties, but the Mario serious is still my favorite.

 

[TheYungLink]

I feel like I'm in the minority now for really wanting Toad in Smash Bros.
I love third parties, but the Mario serious is still my favorite.

I think any Mario newcomer will be around as celebrated as a third-party character tbh, even if they don't come with new stages or music.

That's just how big Mario is. Still king.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I don't see it that way at all, seeing as my point is that poking fun at characters is by and large harmless.


I also implied that Banjo would make a great cereal mascot. Does that mean that I just wanted to sneak an insult in on my favorite videogame character? This is pretty much exactly the kind of defensiveness I was talking about.

Some teasing coming from people who are outside a character's fanbase is perfectly normal. Like I said, people saying that Terry is undeserving and completely niche is one thing. But poking fun at a character's appearance is really, really tame stuff.

...you cannot imagine how hard it was not to type "Hat Ken" at the end there.

?

I'm not sure what you're getting at since I'm certainly not being defensive, you're pretty clearly projecting that onto my post. All I said was for you to just say 'Hat Ken'.

 

[Vycoul]

?
I'm not sure what you're getting at since I'm certainly not being defensive, you're pretty clearly projecting that onto my post. All I said was for you to just say 'Hat Ken'.

Ah, sorry. The rolling eyes smiley at the end of your post made me interpret it in a much different way.

 

[osby]

any Mario newcomer will be around as celebrated as a third-party character tbh, even if they don't come with new stages or music.

Yeah, just look at how celebrated was compared to or .

 

[DarthEnderX]

Terry is not Hat Ken! Ken is Hatless Terry!

I feel like I'm in the minority now for really wanting Toad in Smash Bros.

CAPTAIN Toad with Toadette alt.

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone?

Chrono Trigger.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Terry is not Hat Ken! Ken is Hatless Terry!

CAPTAIN Toad with Toadette alt.

Chrono Trigger.

my man

 

[NickoRaptor]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

Hit me with some Doom tunes boss man. And if they add an Undertale character even after Sans got a costume I wouldn't be mad, if only because the music would slap so hard.

 

[TheYungLink]

Yeah, just look at how celebrated was compared to or .

Bigger laughs has gotta count for somethin'!

I think kids that like Mario would still be pretty excited for the bigger Mario characters not added yet, particularly (Captain) Toad, Toadette, and Pauline. The slightly older crowd would really enjoy Paper Mario.

I'm not trying to diss on third-party characters or anything if that's what you thought I was implying, it's just...I mean it's MARIO. It'll sell a lot even if online spaces like Twitter or Reddit aren't exploding in hype or anything. I'm not even personally demanding they get in before any more guest characters. That was my only point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[HyruleHero]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

Kingdom Hearts: The music written by Shimomura is amazing.
Assassins Creed: Mainly Ezio's theme, really good music.
Both of these 3rd party franchises have a chance as well. If they don't get in as characters I hope we see some Mii costumes with music.

 

[Ben Holt]

CAPTAIN Toad with Toadette alt.

Captain Toad would be PART of a general Toad moveset, not the star of the show.
So Captain Toad would be an alt of Toad.

 

[osby]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

The World Ends With You. I'm not a fan, so I don't have emotional attachment to characters, but man, that soundtrack.

It's worth it even if only for Hybrid and Twister.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Captain Toad would be PART of a general Toad moveset, not the star of the show.
So Captain Toad would be an alt of Toad.

Rejected. Toad privileges revoked.

 

[StormC]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

Ace Attorney mostly. Give me like, an ACE remix of Cornered and I'll pay whatever they ask.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Crono Trigger was mentioned, I don’t even think his chances are that outlandish honestly. It’s a well celebrated RPG, and a remake might just happen. Same with Isaac and Golden Sun, and also of course Geno and Super Mario RPG. This last Direct confirmed that RPG remakes are a hot take for the Switch, it’s a likely thing to expect more.

I also gotta say I don’t know who Terry is, but I really don’t care about his addition anyway. At this point in Ultimate, if you don’t have some of your biggest wishes included in Smashing already, your tastes might just be slightly off and you know it. Unless you support first party owned characters... like me. Yeah sucks to be us! But even I can rest easy with having K.Rool
and Banjo despite not having Dixie, Isaac and Impa.

There’s still reasonable first party characters to want of course, but I realize it’s not very likely to happen.

 

[Curious Villager]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

Layton and Ace Attorney for sure.

After making and downloading some Layton themed stage builder stages I quickly came to realize how Smash severely lacks in Accordion and Violin themed tunes, especially the former...

I don't want to reuse the Route 10 music over and over...

 

[NoOtherPersona]

if i could get any series in just for there soundtrack I'd go with Halo only because the idea of Cheif meeting Mario on the battlefield is so silly and cool to me at the exact same time plus Cheif Vs Samus Other series like Adol from Ys vs Link since they came out the same year and Travis Vs Everyone since he'd probably geek out at the sight of everyone plus both of there soundtracks are great as well

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

King of Fighters.

I'd love to hear remixes of literally anything as long as said songs aren't from KOF 2001.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

King of Fighters.

I'd love to hear remixes of literally anything as long as said songs aren't from KOF 2001.

I think we're gonna get that with terry maybe will get SNK vs Capcom 2 songs to which would be awesome

 

[NickoRaptor]

King of Fighters.

I'd love to hear remixes of literally anything as long as said songs aren't from KOF 2001.

You, uh... heard the news, right...?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

You, uh... heard the news, right...?

is the news the very thing he doesn't want by chance?

 

[Wunderwaft]

so guy's what 3rd party series would you want in just for the music alone? games that have great soundtracks that you'd love to hear remixes of or just see in smash

The Touhou Project
I'd love to see remixes done by the Smash team.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You, uh... heard the news, right...?

He REALLY wanted Kyo, let him rest

The World Ends With You. I'm not a fan, so I don't have emotional attachment to characters, but man, that soundtrack.

It's worth it even if only for Hybrid and Twister.

This reminded me TWEWY got a Switch port, is that any good?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

He REALLY wanted Kyo, let him rest

This reminded me TWEWY got a Switch port, is that any good?

The switch doesn't have good touch controls so the game suffers as a result I say play the ds version since the ds was made for the experience

 

[TechPowah]

Not to kill the speculation vibe and all but
man, debating over how the S2 DLC will work out, and who's gonna be in, and which types of characters
all Nintendo, all 3rd party, maybe a mix of the two

trying to figure all that out, before we even know who fighter pass 5 is
is exhausting

 

[Curious Villager]

I think I'm probably going to take a wait and see approach as far as post pass DLC characters go. Or at least until they share more info about them.

If their still continuing to add new franchises to the game post pass, then I think I'm going to assume that's the way it will probably be for the remainder of the DLC period (or at least the majority of it), at least until proven otherwise...

 

[Dust319]

Not to kill the speculation vibe and all but
man, debating over how the S2 DLC will work out, and who's gonna be in, and which types of characters
all Nintendo, all 3rd party, maybe a mix of the two

trying to figure all that out, before we even know who fighter pass 5 is
is exhausting

Yeah until I hear otherwise I’m assuming the following:

There is no Battle Pass 2/Season2
Future DLC is sold individually
No new companies (excluding whoever is Battle Pass character 5)
Echos and semi clones are extremely likely


Sakurai seemed to indicate that he’s just crunching out as much as possible going forward, so I don’t see him committing to a Battle Pass again if he’s not sure how much time he has to work on it. This coupled with rumors that his team is getting downsized means they won’t be able to invest in anything crazy, so characters that are easier to implement will likely take priority over characters that require negotiation or whole new assets.