Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Nemuresu]

Alright, let's try:

Waluigi, Rex, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Porky. The most constantly requested Nintendo characters out there.

VS

Sora, Geno, Shantae, Ray Man, Crash, Dante, Lloyd Irving, Doomguy, 2B and Steve. The same but for third-party characters.

Which are the majority here?

If Sakurai really wants the characters after the pass to be fanservice, then guests still dwarf Nintendo's own on the long-run.

 

[DevaAshera]

So, I had a thought since I've been playing River City Girls..what would you guys think if Nintendo put in Kunio (with Riki as an Alt Skin)?
I mean, the Kunio-Kun/River City games were the originators of the Beat-Em-Up Genre as we currently know it similarly to how Street Fighter II was the originator of Fighting Games as we currently know them..and the Kunio-kun games are kinda weird in that they constantly go between Beat-Em-Ups and over the top combat sports titles lol
I mean, my female bias makes me want to hope for Misako from River City Girls..but I know better lol

The only one I can see generating massive hype would be Waluigi, mostly because people treat him like a meme and the fact he is an assist trophy. Otherwise, I think the next DLC will be Third parties or something.

I disagree, considering how popular Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was, I think Rex & Pyra would generate a fair amount of hype, as would a Fire Emblem Three Houses rep considering how popular that is as well (regardless of 'too many Fire Emblem characters')

I don't own Ultimate and won't buy it unless a character I really like gets added (or there's a good PM style mod for it), such as Skull Kid.

Really? There are currently 73 characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and you don't really like any of them? Sorry to say, but Skull Kid is likely out considering he's an Assist Trophy (and, really, what would he do? He didn't do anything fight-wise in Majora's Mask, regardless of how much I like him as a character).

 

[GoodGrief741]

No, but neither would Persona 5 fans, Dragon Quest fans, Banjo-Kazooie fans, or King of Fighters fans.

Nobody buys a switch for DLC, they buy it for everything else. The DLC is meant to sell only one thing and that is itself.

This. The idea that people will sink $66 on a game they don't own just to buy a character they like for a game they didn't own is, well, odd. It might get some people to look at the game, but I think DLC for Smash is aimed at Smash owners, not owners-to-be.

Alright, let's try:

Waluigi, Rex, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Porky. The most constantly requested Nintendo characters out there.

VS

Sora, Geno, Shantae, Ray Man, Crash, Dante, Lloyd Irving, Doomguy, 2B and Steve. The same but for third-party characters.

Which are the majority here?

If Sakurai really wants the characters after the pass to be fanservice, then guests still dwarf Nintendo's own on the long-run.

Man isn't it awesome when people pit first parties against third parties like they're different teams?

Rex & Pyra vs. Shantae: who get more buys?

(See? I can do it too! Cool thing is it means nothing!)

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean... Majora's Mask sold over 5 million copies alone and is considered a masterpiece, and Mach Rider is a ****ing black box NES game, are you somehow suggesting these characters are not popular?

I will ABSOLUTELY suggest that Mach Rider isn't popular. Nobody outside the Smash community has even heard of that character, and the Smash community only pretends to care who that is because they showed up in a leak people decided to believe for awhile.

So, I had a thought since I've been playing River City Girls..what would you guys think if Nintendo put in Kunio (with Riki as an Alt Skin)?

Well, some of us might have an opinion on the subject.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I will ABSOLUTELY suggest that Mach Rider isn't popular. Nobody outside the Smash community has even heard of that character, and the Smash community only pretends to care who that is because they showed up in a leak people decided to believe for awhile.

Well you can say that but that doesn't make it true.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well you can say that but that doesn't make it true.

No, the fact that it's true makes it true. And you are out of your mind if you think Mach Rider isn't pre-Melee Ice Climbers level obscure.

It's so obscure Nintendo can't even be bothered to put it on NES Classic or Nintendo Online.

 

[N3ON]

Alright, let's try:

Waluigi, Rex, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Porky. The most constantly requested Nintendo characters out there.

VS

Sora, Geno, Shantae, Ray Man, Crash, Dante, Lloyd Irving, Doomguy, 2B and Steve. The same but for third-party characters.

Which are the majority here?

If Sakurai really wants the characters after the pass to be fanservice, then guests still dwarf Nintendo's own on the long-run.

Not really fair that one of those has four more characters than the other. Also not really fair that one of those characters is Porky.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This. The idea that people will sink $66 on a game they don't own just to buy a character they like for a game they didn't own is, well, odd. It might get some people to look at the game, but I think DLC for Smash is aimed at Smash owners, not owners-to-be.


Man isn't it awesome when people pit first parties against third parties like they're different teams?

Rex & Pyra vs. Shantae: who get more buys?

(See? I can do it too! Cool thing is it means nothing!)

I mean, there's also an entire content heavy game that they're sinking $66 (or however much they pay for) in. Like, yes, some people will immediately drop that kind of money on a product for a character like. But also a character can just be the tipping point for investment in Smash or Nintendo. If you're a huge Persona fan and have been looking at a Switch for some time and think Ultimate looks really great, then Joker gets announced, then that might be exactly the push you were waiting for on the system or Ultimate or whatever. It's a huge game that they get in addition to being able to play as their favorite character. And the list of first parties that can generate even minor hype is incredibly short these days, whereas the third party list is huge and has character 5 times, 10 times, 20 times bigger than the first party option.

First party characters don't generate the continued conversations say a bombshell like Crash Bandicoot would, and people talking about the game helps ensure that the title stays evergreen and keeps trying to hook people in because it becomes to big to ignore.

 

[DevaAshera]

It's an important distinction. A character extremely popular with a demographic that is unlikely to buy the game is one example. Tracer might fit that criteria. Probably more hype than Terry, but are OW players who don't own a Switch (which is presumably a lot of them) going to buy a Switch and Smash if she gets added?

I mean, you say that..but they can and do.
I mean, I bought Ehrgeiz due to Final Fantasy VII characters, I bought Soul Calibur II due to Link, Django in Mega Man Battle Network got my brother into one of his fav series, Boktai, I bought Blaster Master Zero due to Shantae and Shovel Knight, 2B being announced as DLC for Soul Calibur VI was what finalized my decision to buy it, Final Fantasy characters being in Kingdom Hearts was the only reason I got into what ended up as one of my favorite series..My point is that guest characters do bring in fans from other series..more-so than 1st party characters from series already represented in most cases since, honestly, most of those fans will already have a character they like from those series in the game.

You see, you're going off will it make people buy Switches, particularly if they didn't already have an interest. That's flawed logic. Guest Characters are meant to bring over fans from that series into this game..You assume that people that are fans of games like Overwatch, Persona, Dragon Quest, etc only have PlayStation 4s, but that's now always the case..a lot of people have Switches or have an interest in purchasing one already, a guest character in Smash could still tip them in the direction of buying a Switch or even just Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[Nemuresu]

Rex & Pyra vs. Shantae: who get more buys?

(See? I can do it too! Cool thing is it means nothing!)

Can't tell if you were implying that Rex would sell more than Shantae or not, because if so, Shantae's had a bigger fandom than Rex.

Now, could both characters co-exist in the same game? Of course. All I'm saying is that people are asking for more third-party characters than for Nintendo characters. Which is true for most polls and sites out there.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Nintendo makes more money from me (and presumably some other people) with certain first party characters. If the argument is valid that a character like Terry can bring in new consumers, so is the argument that a first party character can (even if not as many).

That's the point.

Hype itself doesn't matter. Sales matter. Hype only matters insofar as it translates to sales.

Which is (also) the point.

Hype -> Advertising -> Sales

In all honesty, those are such small markets for consoles in the grand scheme of things that I don't think its unfair to question the potential Terry or any other SNK has to make more money than like half of the common suggestions for 3rd parties who have much more substantial popularity in Nintendo's primary markets. Terry's important because of what he bring to Smash in terms of legacy that a lot of bigger characters like Crash, Sora, Steve, Dante, Monster Hunter, Jill/Chris/Leon, Waluigi, let alone more niche favorites like Sans, Joker, and Banjo don't have but frankly he's not a guy who I feel is a substantial difference maker the way Snake/Sonic/Megaman/Ryu/Cloud/Hero were if you get what I'm saying.

Are you seriously going to discredit entire countries as markets? Especially China, which has the largest potential market for consoles right now, and which Nintendo has been trying to break into for years now?

You can't be serious.

I mean... Majora's Mask sold over 5 million copies alone and is considered a masterpiece, and Mach Rider is a ****ing black box NES game, are you somehow suggesting these characters are not popular?

Compare 5 million+ to Phoenix Wright's 7.2 million+, DMC's 20 million+, or Resident Evil's 92 million+.

Most first parties just don't stack up.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

No, but neither would Persona 5 fans, Dragon Quest fans, Banjo-Kazooie fans, or King of Fighters fans.

Nobody buys a switch for DLC, they buy it for everything else. The DLC is meant to sell only one thing and that is itself.

I mostly agree. You're supporting my position, even though it seems from the tone that you're arguing against me.

Really? There are currently 73 characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and you don't really like any of them? Sorry to say, but Skull Kid is likely out considering he's an Assist Trophy (and, really, what would he do? He didn't do anything fight-wise in Majora's Mask, regardless of how much I like him as a character).

I like plenty of the current characters, but not enough to buy Ultimate when Melee and Project M exist.

As for Skull Kid, check his support thread, the assist trophy moveset thread, or my signature.

 

[Zinith]

I will ABSOLUTELY suggest that Mach Rider isn't popular. Nobody outside the Smash community has even heard of that character, and the Smash community only pretends to care who that is because they showed up in a leak people decided to believe for awhile.

Well I mean, I knew who Mach Rider was before finding out he (or she) was a popular request for Smash. But I guess since I'm now in the Smash community that doesn't count now?

But that kinda goes without saying doesn't it? Speculating about newcomers makes you a part of the Smash community doesn't it...

No, the fact that it's true makes it true. And you are out of your mind if you think Mach Rider isn't pre-Melee Ice Climbers level obscure.

It's so obscure Nintendo can't even be bothered to put it on NES Classic or Nintendo Online.

It was on the Virtual Console at least, something even the original SNES goddamn Yoshi's Island didn't get on

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I like plenty of the current characters, but not enough to buy Ultimate when Melee and Project M exist.

As for Skull Kid, check his support thread, the assist trophy moveset thread, or my signature.

There has still been almost 40 character since Project M released though... and none of those have appealed to you? That seems like super specific taste.


Also, on the Mach Rider point. No it's not popular and people are foolish to argue that position. It's not a well regarded NES game and it doesn't even match up to Nintendo other bike related game at the time Excitebike, which did actually pierce the public consciousness enough to be a fondly remembered title. Mach Rider? Never got a sequel, a spiritual sequel, or references until Smash. It's a one-off NES game that is remembered by a select few and then got embraced by the Smash community because Sakurai mentioned its name and got featured in the Grinch leak.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This. The idea that people will sink $66 on a game they don't own just to buy a character they like for a game they didn't own is, well, odd. It might get some people to look at the game, but I think DLC for Smash is aimed at Smash owners, not owners-to-be.


Man isn't it awesome when people pit first parties against third parties like they're different teams?

Rex & Pyra vs. Shantae: who get more buys?

(See? I can do it too! Cool thing is it means nothing!)

First things first, calm down man. It seems like you're getting heated about this, and if there's one thing I've learned it's that emotions 9 times out of 10 don't contribute positively to any argument.

Second, the concept alone that people will be drawn in to Smash is what makes third parties attractive additions. People who already own Smash are probably going to buy the DLC. They don't need to be convinced. Hence, you want to include characters that appeal to those who need to be convinced.

The Fighters Pass has been pretty strategic in convincing different demographics so far. Joker as a strong worldwide pick, Hero for Japan (and kind of Europe), Banjo for America (and also kind of Europe), and Terry for South America and China (and kind of everywhere else).

Nintendo did say their focus is to draw in new demographics with Smash DLC, so it makes sense for them to include third parties since they have the power to do that. Furthermore, they also appeal to existing players (the other focus of Smash DLC according to Nintendo) since another new series being added to Smash is always exciting. First parties definitely fulfill the second focus, but struggle to fulfill the first.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

There has still been almost 40 character since Project M released though... and none of those have appealed to you? That seems like super specific taste.

I like some of them, but not enough to buy a game I consider inferior.

 

[DevaAshera]

I will ABSOLUTELY suggest that Mach Rider isn't popular. Nobody outside the Smash community has even heard of that character, and the Smash community only pretends to care who that is because they showed up in a leak people decided to believe for awhile.

Well, some of us might have an opinion on the subject.

Yeah, Mach Rider is far from a popular pick..unless you grew up on the NES and knew more than just Mario, Mega Man, and Zelda, you won't know what Mach Rider even was..and I bet less people will be aware that the titular Mach Rider has been revealed to be a female.
https://i.imgtc.com/Bg7Cys6.jpg
She'd be cool and Sakurai once considered including her before deciding on Ice Climbers, if I recall correctly, but she is far from well known and popular..there's a reason Nintendo never made a sequel to Mach Rider.

Well you can say that but that doesn't make it true.

It is though. Outside of old school Nintendo fans, no one knows what Mach Rider even is or who she is..she's from an obscure Nintendo game..much more obscure than Kid Icarus or Ice Climbers were, much more obscure than people say Terry is..she isn't from a popular game nor is a popular character in her own right.

I like plenty of the current characters, but not enough to buy Ultimate when Melee and Project M exist.

As for Skull Kid, check his support thread, the assist trophy moveset thread, or my signature.

You didn't like any of the characters added in Smash 4 or Ultimate? That's somewhat surprising to me..but I guess you just don't have that many characters or series you're into I guess.

I know a moveset can be created for Skull Kid, but in Majora's Mask itself, he never did anything other than a few curses that wouldn't work for a moveset and he's also a one off character compared to, say, Impa or Tingle who are now legacy characters like Link, Zelda, and Ganon/Ganondorf. Similarly to Midna and Ghirahim, I just don't think he's a high priority character for the Zelda series since they are all one offs that are unlikely to return at best..and yes, I do realize the irony of me saying this while having Princess Hilda on my Echo Fighter Wishlist..though Echo Fighters are kinda in a different place I guess?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I like some of them, but not enough to buy a game I consider inferior.

How would Skull Kid or any character change that fact though? If you're a Melee purist from a mechanical standpoint of view, then Ultimate basically never has any value to you I feel like.

 

[M@R!3]

Most well known 3rd party characters are going to have more demand than 1st party characters at this point. It's just an inherent part of not being limited to a specific platform. If your game is on every console it has more opportunities for exposure and sales. Period. 1st party characters from Nintendo that aren't on the level of Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong will struggle to garner as much support as long as strong 3rd parties remain available.

 

[perfectchaos83]

A lot of this arguing is rather silly, and pretty pointless at this point in time. The only concrete thing we know about DLC post Fighters pass is that Sakurai wants to please the fans. That alone says something as well, as fans of the series would like first party characters. The best course of action from this point forward is to do a mix of characters rather than focusing fully on 1st or 3rd party. Keeping your current audience happy is just as important as trying to bring new people in.

This fanbase really needs to stop trying to predict Sakurai as he's proven time and time again that he's not going to go the way the fanbase as a whole expects him to and even this Fighter Pass is a very great example of that.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The love and speculation for Mach Rider was borne from the Melee Trophy and how bad ass that made the character look.

It's highly, HIGHLY unlikely that anyone here knew who Mach Rider was before then. The obscurity of the game was counteracted by the fact that it was IN Smash in some form. This is also how Fire Emblem got localized, how people found out about Mario & Wario, and how support sparked for other characters like Ayumi Tachibana.

What am I saying? Well, people are supporting said characters because they are a relic of Smash itself and not necessarily because of said character. Could they have researched and began to love the character? Sure. That's what happened to me with Takamaru during Smash For speculation but them being in Smash in some way before Ultimate doesn't make then anymore likely or relevant than any other character.

 

[Deathcarter]

Any hypothetical first party DLC wouldn't be expected to carry a hype cycle to begin with. They would be released alongside a more popular 3rd party like Lucas, Roy, & Corrin all were because Sakurai isn't an idiot and would carefully plan when to release said 1st for maximum effect. The main concern with the 1st parties is a question of whether or not Sakurai cares enough to bother making 1st DLC and aside from Rex who the man publicly endorsed in a Smash direct, I can't think of a 1st party who'd catch his eye:

-Arms and Astral Chain are too new to expect a character.
-Sakurai's got a pretty good pulse on the community so he probably knows Byleth/Edlegard would produce severe anti-hype among non-FE fans.
-The second wave of DLC has probably already been decided now which severely hurts a Gen 8 Pokemon (though its Pokemon so its still in the running by default).
-Agent 8 is completely redundant with Inkling around.
-In the game where Sakurai explicitly noted that the ballot played a big factor in terms of deciding the roster, the final 1st party non-echo newcomer chosen after the two ballot favorites, the new Nintendo all stars, and the obligatory Pokémon was...a generic Mario enemy literally nobody asked for. That's a pretty damning indictment for the prospects of pretty much every pre-Switch 1st party if you think about it. Even Waluigi, for all the fanfare he has around him now, hardly feels like a character Sakurai himself particularly cares about considering that Sakurai has known about his fan demand even back during the Smash 4 days and Plant still won out over him.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

A lot of this arguing is rather silly, and pretty pointless at this point in time. The only concrete thing we know about DLC post Fighters pass is that Sakurai wants to please the fans. That alone says something as well, as fans of the series would like first party characters. The best course of action from this point forward is to do a mix of characters rather than focusing fully on 1st or 3rd party. Keeping your current audience happy is just as important as trying to bring new people in.

This fanbase really needs to stop trying to predict Sakurai as he's proven time and time again that he's not going to go the way the fanbase as a whole expects him to and even this Fighter Pass is a very great example of that.

I mean, you're on a Smash forum. This place literally exists to predict Sakurai and speculate/discuss the game and its future. He's also not nearly as unpredictable as some people claim, there's a pretty clear logic to a lot of his actions and the progression makes a lot of sense over the years.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

How would Skull Kid or any character change that fact though? If you're a Melee purist from a mechanical standpoint of view, then Ultimate basically never has any value to you I feel like.

It wouldn't change the fact that the physics are inferior, but it's fun to play as one's favorite character. Capiche?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Skull Kid is definitely popular in the Zelda fanbase (I mean, are characters usually popular outside of their own series’ fanbase? lol), but yeah third-parties are likelier to grab more people’s attention. But that’s the same for every first-party character. People were mad when Skull Kid wasn’t added as a playable character in Hyrule Warriors’s Majora’s Mask DLC, and MM is very iconic. I also don’t see why Nintendo wouldn’t want to try and please their own fanbase, which is likely what they and Sakurai were going for with Banjo & Kazooie. They could do the same thing again. This isn’t limited to just Skull Kid of course, I’m just saying.

Also, I do believe Sakurai could make a moveset for Skull Kid using dark magic, the blowpipe, maybe the trumpets or an ocarina, puppets, Tatl and Tael, teleporting, the Deku curse, and the Mask’s own stuff. Of course the Moon would be his final smash.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I wonder if next year being the 10th anniversary of the Xenoblade franchise will at all increase the chances of Rex/Pyra being in Season 2? Like Nintendo clearly does have some plans to celebrate it since they just announced a remake of the first game and the franchise becomes a bigger deal to Nintendo with each new game that releases.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder if next year being the 10th anniversary of the Xenoblade franchise will at all increase the chances of Rex/Pyra being in Season 2? Like Nintendo clearly does have some plans to celebrate it since they just announced a remake of the first game and the franchise becomes a bigger deal to Nintendo with each new game that releases.

Nah fam they'll celebrate it by having Jenna Coleman be at E3 and say "I'm voicing Melia again also she's in Smash" which will cause X1D to be the best selling game in the UK

 

[DevaAshera]

A lot of this arguing is rather silly, and pretty pointless at this point in time. The only concrete thing we know about DLC post Fighters pass is that Sakurai wants to please the fans. That alone says something as well, as fans of the series would like first party characters. The best course of action from this point forward is to do a mix of characters rather than focusing fully on 1st or 3rd party. Keeping your current audience happy is just as important as trying to bring new people in.

This fanbase really needs to stop trying to predict Sakurai as he's proven time and time again that he's not going to go the way the fanbase as a whole expects him to and even this Fighter Pass is a very great example of that.

Honestly, when it comes to Super Smash Bros. fans, if you ask any one fan to give their top 5 most wanted characters, or even their top most wanted character, chances are you'll get a fairly even mix of 1st/2nd Party and 3rd Party..like take me for example, my Top 5 characters are..
- Sora from Kingdom Hearts (3rd Party, Disney)
- Rex & Pyra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (2nd Party, Monolith Soft)
- Byleth from Fire Emblem Three Houses (2nd Party, Intelligent Systems)
- Zero from Mega Man Zero (3rd Party, Capcom)
- 2B from NieR Automata (3rd Party, Square-Enix)
As you can see, its a fairly even mixture of 1st/2nd Party & 3rd Party characters.

Any hypothetical first party DLC wouldn't be expected to carry a hype cycle to begin with. They would be released alongside a more popular 3rd party like Lucas, Roy, & Corrin all were because Sakurai isn't an idiot and would plan when to release said 1st for maximum effect. The main concern with the 1st parties is a question of whether or not Sakurai cares enough to bother making 1st DLC and aside from Rex who the man publicly endorsed in a Smash direct, I can't think of a 1st party who'd catch his eye:

-Arms and Astral Chain are too new to expect a character.
-Sakurai's got a pretty good pulse on the community so he probably knows Byleth/Edlegard would produce severe anti-hype among non-FE fans.
-The second wave of DLC has probably already been decided now which severely hurts a Gen 8 Pokemon (though its Pokemon so its still in the running by default).
-Agent 8 is completely redundant with Inkling around.
-In the game where Sakurai explicitly noted that the ballot played a big factor in terms of deciding the roster, the final 1st party non-echo newcomer chosen after the two ballot favorites, the new Nintendo all stars, and the obligatory Pokémon was...a generic Mario enemy literally nobody asked for. That's a pretty damning indictment for the prospects of pretty much every pre-Switch 1st party if you think about it. Even Waluigi, for all the fanfare he has around him now, hardly feels like a character Sakurai himself particularly cares about considering that Sakurai has known about his fan demand even back during the Smash 4 days and Plant still won out over him.

ARMS is no longer 'too new' and we don't know if the characters have already been decided upon yet or not, meaning we can't say anything is too new yet. The 'too new' comment was only relevant to the original Fighters Pass, as all of those characters were decided upon before release, but these new DLC characters sound like they were not originally planned on and likely are being done due to the popularity of both Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and the Fighters Pass, meaning anyone is essentially fair game now.
- I don't think it matter much if someone wouldn't be recieved well from non-fans of that series..
- We don't know if its been decided upon yet and Pokémon Sword/Shield were announced before this, so Sakurai could easily have had a Greninja moment where he picked a character or set a spot for a Pokémon.
- Octoling could be an Echo Fighter. Since this isn't the Fighters Pass, it means Echo Fighter DLC is possible (likely at a cheaper price)
- We don't know if Sakurai decided to pick all characters from the Ballot..its possible that Sakurai just wanted an oddball, random pick..since most of the time he includes at least one.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm kind of tired of this discussion tbh. I feel like people keep saying DLC will surely capture new audiences and whatever but I think that's such a small pool of people that it's not worth considering.

This whole situation has surprised me, I thought since Smash is kind of a celebration of videogames its fans would do that too, but ever since this DLC season started I've seen more of people trying to put characters and games down than find things to celebrate. It's reached a really nasty fever pitch with Terry.

Ah well. I was hoping that things would get better with the confirmation of more DLC, but okay.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Is ARMS still popular (as popular as it ever was)?

 

[perfectchaos83]

I mean, you're on a Smash forum. This place literally exists to predict Sakurai and speculate/discuss the game and its future. He's also not nearly as unpredictable as some people claim, there's a pretty clear logic to a lot of his actions and the progression makes a lot of sense over the years.

Let me restate it then, This fanbase needs to stop taking their interpretation of Sakurai's words as 100% fact. It's been made clear time and time again that he's not as black and white as most people seem to make it out to be. When I say people need to stop predicting Sakurai, I'm saying they need to stop thinking that they know what he's actually thinking.

Of course his decisions make logical sense. That's not my point. Even if this next batch of DLC is 100% First party/Assist Promotions it would make logical sense. If Dixie were in this game instead of K Rool it would make Logical Sense. If a Unique Dark Samus was in Ultimate before Ridley it would make Logical Sense. If Bomberman were in instead of Simon it would make logical sense. Nearly every decision that Sakurai can make will be a logical one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is ARMS still popular (as popular as it ever was)?

Nobody seems to ever talk about it so I'm guessing that the people saying it only found success because nothing else was out may indeed be true

 

[N3ON]

Nobody seems to ever talk about it so I'm guessing that the people saying it only found success because nothing else was out may indeed be true

That's probably because it's not recent enough to be something still captivating people, and not old enough for people to miss it. No one really talks about Splatoon either these days, but I guarantee that's still popular. If we get to the point where a series would be verging on dormant (like in a few more years) and no one still seems to care, then you'd have your one trick pony.

Though I'm not disputing it probably sold what it did because it came out early in the Switch's lifespan. Though it's not like only commercially successful games have communities online talking about them.

Oh and resetera still goes on about Twintelle, but that's for resetera reasons.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's probably because it's not recent enough to be something still captivating people, and not old enough for people to miss it. No one really talks about Splatoon either these days, but I guarantee that's still popular. If we get to the point where a series would be verging on dormant (like in a few more years) and no one still seems to care, then you'd have your one trick pony.

Though I'm not disputing it probably sold what it did because it came out early in the Switch's lifespan. Though it's not like only commercially successful games have communities online talking about them.

Oh and resetera still goes on about Twintelle, but that's for resetera reasons.

I mean, I still see Splatoon everywhere. I have friends talk about it irl, I see people talk aboit it on Discord and I still see it a lot on twitter. Only time I really see people talk about ARMs in any of those circles is "**** that trashy ass game"

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I saw Splatoon on TV yesterday.

 

[N3ON]

I mean, I still see Splatoon everywhere. I have friends talk about it irl, I see people talk aboit it on Discord and I still see it a lot on twitter. Only time I really see people talk about ARMs in any of those circles is "**** that trashy *** game"

Well I stand by the other 80% of my post. The ARMS part.

 

[M@R!3]

Splatoon is still pretty popular, but it's dropped off a bit since the final splatfest.

 

[SKX31]

In all honesty, those are such small markets for consoles in the grand scheme of things that I don't think its unfair to question the potential Terry or any other SNK has to make more money than like half of the common suggestions for 3rd parties who have much more substantial popularity in Nintendo's primary markets. Terry's important because of what he bring to Smash in terms of legacy that a lot of bigger characters like Crash, Sora, Steve, Dante, Monster Hunter, Jill/Chris/Leon, Waluigi, let alone more niche favorites like Sans, Joker, and Banjo don't have but frankly he's not a guy who I feel is a substantial difference maker the way Snake/Sonic/Megaman/Ryu/Cloud/Hero were if you get what I'm saying.

China? For now, sure. But from what I've see Sans reveal gor a significant (edit: the first claim I saw was almost 6 million, but it could be the site inflating statistics) views on the Chinese video site Bilibili (likely because Toby Fox got involved and the Megalovania remix), and Terry's Chinese viewercount is comfortably in the six figures. There's, again, a Weibo account covering just the Switch with 1 million followers. The link's a workaround - directly linking causes a popup that asks you to join. The account's image is a Piplup holding a Switch by the way. And Smash is not even officially out, just on the grey market. Sure the official release could still flop, but I'm getting pretty cautiously optimistic. I'm not expecting a mega success over there, but it's looking like the Switch will find a foothold there.

As for LatAm, I saw some Brazilian streamers and their reactions. Not as much as the English or Chinese, but still reached quite a lot by themselves.

Thing is, I'm starting to think that Nintendo's slowly but surely looking to expand into non-primary places. Nintendo's new president has openly stated that. He's not expected mega-successes- but again, building the Nintendo audience in places like China, step by step.

 

[Deleted member]

Back after a short break, anyways wanted to give a few thoughts on some of the late discussions.

I feel that discussions as a whole regarding the pass arguing about first party or third party are kinda hit and miss at this point, there are a few things that you can get with a first party (less licensing nightmares) and some others with a third party (worlds and franchises that cover a lot of stuff that Nintendo doesn't do). While I respect people wanting a first party on the pass or as a future DLC, many times I just feel extremely annoyed by the continuous disdain for third parties in Smash and this ideology of Smash being a Nintendo museum or a showcase. Personally I prefer the continuous trend of third parties as it is more entertaining to think about crossover appeal with new worlds and franchises than in most cases **** we have some representation of sorts already.

Regarding DLC. I actually like to take Reggie's statement on Joker in relation to the pass as to what to expect and, even if it sounds a little to fanboyish, in the context of Persona is what we are getting. Joker with Arsene represents the Fool Arcana which means endless possibilities, and from getting characters that are very recent or old, with huge or small legacies, huge or small backing from the fanbases, and ultimately at this point like I believe people say its anybody's game.

Realistically speaking, the more characters we get in the game the more nicher the possible options are going to be. Because lets be honest, there's hardly any characters that are popular WW and with the same magnitude as a lot of the characters in the roster. Even big names like MC are quite niche in Japan. A lot of the newcomers even since the first game on the N64 are not really that well known, and that really shouldn't stop discussions about them given what we have gotten so far.

Lastly I feel that with this news of extra DLC people are jumping the gun in regards as to what to expect when we still haven't gotten any news at all apart of new content. This talk of spirits/AT/Mii costumes upgrades seems premature as the DLC could very well continue having the same ideology of having new worlds represented in Smash and lets be honest, with 3rd parties in the mix there aren't really any necessity to upgrade anything from the content you already have in the game.

(Also, for the whole hype -> sales it would be very nice for the people to present numbers. As the estimates by the fanbase just seem like an awful metric to go)

 

[osby]

At this point, I'd rather see third party additions, because they are guaranteed to bring new franchises.

Some Nintendo owned characters like Dixie, Bandana Dee or any Three Houses characters would be nice, but adding new universes instead of doubling down on what you already have is more exciting to me when you're dealing with crossovers.

And let's be honest, Nintendo just doesn't have any franchises left that would be less controversial than what we're getting now.

I'm kind of tired of this discussion tbh. I feel like people keep saying DLC will surely capture new audiences and whatever but I think that's such a small pool of people that it's not worth considering.

Persona series sold over 10 million copies recently.
Dragon Quest sold more than 70 million copies, before it comes to Switch, that is.
Banjo-Kazooie sold approximately 5.3 million copies, with just 5 games.

You and I have very different definitions of "a small pool".