Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Nemuresu]

Can I just say that I would absolutely LOVE if we got Japan's Top 5 requested characters? Also, I love that Sora is either 1st or 2nd for every territory.
View attachment 237530

I'm pretty sure they'd be fine with it..I mean, Sora is a character that has only appeared in three things: Video Games, his primary source, and then manga and novel adaptions of those video games. If he's not considered a video game character simply due to interacting with cartoon and movie characters then I'd be surprised and in complete disagreement.
They could also keep the Hidden Mickey keychain on the Kingdom Key since its not a character but rather an icon..but they could also change out the Keyblade for a different one if they wanted to.

Man, crazy how demand for Nintendo characters keeps being minuscule in comparison to all the third-party characters. Guess there's no point on thinking about purism after going through DLC like this season.

In other times, people would've laughed at the idea of Master Chief as a playable character, now it's a different ball game.

While I'll still wait before making any more judgement or predictions, I wouldn't be surprised if the next DLC characters after the pass are just third-party characters with high demand. It really feels like that's the path Smash will be taking from here on now.

 

[M@R!3]

Unpopular opinion: Crash and Spyro haven't been the same since they've been owned by Activision; I think they solely exist to make a quick buck. Remakes aside, I can't think of any good recent games from them in a very long time. I remember when people wanted them in PlayStation All-stars. Back then, the remakes weren't around and Spyro was reduced to a Skylander character (i.e. he was Spyro in name only, IMO), and I knew that they'd use his newer appearance if he actually made it in. Time passed and Smash is different than PSASBR (they'd do the characters justice), but would Activision play ball?

I can't see Activision refusing to put Crash and Spyro in Smash. If anything they would see it as an opportunity to give each series a shot at new entries.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I'd like to say that Twitter responses is really scraping the barrel of how much a character is requested. When people bring up No More Heroes, or Suda, or even Travis Touchdown the respones are immediately about Travis in Smash. Does that mean he's the number 1 popular request in the US?

I dont think every character that's hyped up is really warranted to be added in Smash. There are people who want a character solely because they get talked about a lot. Why else do people only bring up Heihachi as a potential Tekken rep, when Jin, Kazuya or even Yoshimitsu exist.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I'd like to say that Twitter responses is really scraping the barrel of how much a character is requested. When people bring up No More Heroes, or Suda, or even Travis Touchdown the respones are immediately about Travis in Smash. Does that mean he's the number 1 popular request in the US?

I dont think every character that's hyped up is really warranted to be added in Smash. There are people who want a character solely because they get talked about a lot. Why else do people only bring up Heihachi as a potential Tekken rep, when Jin, Kazuya or even Yoshimitsu exist.

Heihachi has basically been the go to character for a Tekken rep in other fighting games such as him being playable in the PS2 version of Soul Caliber 2 and Playstation All Stars.

 

[Captain Hazama]

Oh god, the ignorance of calling Terry 'Hat Ken' here we ****king go with this. The same ignorance to constatly calling Hero Android 16 or Goku or whatever. Like....seriously...? 'A waste of a slot?' My god.

I've heard that some Japanese call Terry a roid/muscle bound pokemon trainer. lol

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Since Sans is a mii costume, Frisk seems to be the most likely 3rd party newcomer that would piss me off the most after Joker/Ren. because I only want highly iconic 3rd party characters,

 

[GoodGrief741]

Except Terry is a "massive hypeball" for South America and China, two very real markets for Nintendo to appeal to, alongside the SNK fanbases in America and Japan (who do indeed exist).

Furthermore, there's a difference between not being hyped for Terry and calling him Hat Ken. One's a reasonable, mature response and the other is throwing a hissy fit like a child.

View attachment 237545

Bruh.

Sora and Lloyd are both popular characters and Nintendo could gain a lot from their inclusions. Refer to my Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument and The Definitive Case for Lloyd Irving for fuller explanations.

I did not and would never call Terry Hat Ken nor back anyone doing that. I'm just pointing out that yes China and Latin America love him but clearly the general internet response has been polarized. If that counts as enough hype to be called a massive hypeball I'm sure Waluigi does too.

By the way I'm Latin American and nobody in my country bar hardcore fighting game enthusiasts are very aware of who Terry is anymore. I'm sure he and SNK are popular around but if you'd been led to believe he's as well known as Superman around here, well that's not true either.

 

[HyruleHero]

Since Sans is a mii costume, Frisk seems to be the most likely 3rd party newcomer that would piss me off the most after Joker/Ren. because I only want highly iconic 3rd party characters,

Pretty sure Sans deconfirmed anymore Undertale characters. All DLC characters thus far have a whole new music selection area however Megalovania was put in the other area and can only be played on random stages. Thats more evidence for deconfirmation than Spirits in the very least.

 

[cothero]

I was thinking about characters that could make the cut into smash through DLC and this guy immediately came into my head:

When it come to fighting games, the three major names in everyone's mind is Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken. Now that we have reps from SF and Fatal Fury in Smash, it's only logical to add a Tekken character, if he has the potential, of course. Although Heihachi is the most recognizable face of the series, Sakurai stated that he was considered for some time, but was dropped for the lack of realizable moveset and then added as a Mii costume. Jin Kazama is the protagonist of the series, so it's kinda obvious that he would be the natural choice, besides having a great moveset potential. And Devil Jin as final smash is kinda obrigatory.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I've heard that some Japanese call Terry a roid/muscle bound pokemon trainer. lol

This is legit an awesome description though. If that's supposed to be an insult I ain't even mad.

I was thinking about characters that could make the cut into smash through DLC and this guy immediately came into my head:

View attachment 237546

When it come to fighting games, the three major names in everyone's mind is Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken. Now that we have reps from SF and Fatal Fury in Smash, it's only logical to add a Tekken character, if he has the potential, of course. Although Heihachi is the most recognizable face of the series, Sakurai stated that he was considered for some time, but was drop for the lack of realizable moveset and then added as a Mii costume. Jin Kazama is the protagonist of the series, so it's kinda obvious that he would be the natural choice, besides having a great moveset potential. And Devil Jin as final smash is kinda obrigatory.

Except Jin isn't the protagonist of the series, it's Heihachi.

 

[Nemuresu]

Had to go search for this because of some people talking about negotiation nightmares:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Sakurai: Those third-party characters are huge icons of their respective companies, so such an opportunity is hard to come by. That being said, now that Smash has grown into a well-known franchise, the creators recognize the merits of allowing us to use their characters, so negotiations have tended to go rather smoothly.

It may not mean much for some, but then I remember when some people here were making Hero a giant nightmare to negotiate for Smash, and I believe this phrase alone echoes well on how many third-parties have come to Smash since the last game.

 

[cothero]

This is legit an awesome description though. If that's supposed to be an insult I ain't even mad.


Except Jin isn't the protagonist of the series, it's Heihachi.

Wrong, bro. Google "Tekken protagonist" and see for yourself.

"Jin Kazama (Japanese: 風間 仁 Hepburn: Kazama Jin) is a fictional character and main protagonist of the Tekken fighting gameseries released by Namco Bandai Games."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I was thinking about characters that could make the cut into smash through DLC and this guy immediately came into my head:

When it come to fighting games, the three major names in everyone's mind is Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken. Now that we have reps from SF and Fatal Fury in Smash, it's only logical to add a Tekken character, if he has the potential, of course. Although Heihachi is the most recognizable face of the series, Sakurai stated that he was considered for some time, but was dropped for the lack of realizable moveset and then added as a Mii costume. Jin Kazama is the protagonist of the series, so it's kinda obvious that he would be the natural choice, besides having a great moveset potential. And Devil Jin as final smash is kinda obrigatory.

Heihachi's the face and icon of Tekken. If anyone from that series is going to get in its him. There's a reason he makes guest appearances in other games notably PSABR, Project Zone X and Soulcalibur II (PS2).

 

[MorbidMiraj]

I've heard that some Japanese call Terry a roid/muscle bound pokemon trainer. lol

I don't really have anything to add to your comment, I just wanted to say I approve of your signature choices, haha!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Wrong, bro. Google "Tekken protagonist" and see for yourself.

"Jin Kazama (Japanese: 風間 仁 Hepburn: Kazama Jin) is a fictional character and main protagonist of the Tekken fighting gameseries released by Namco Bandai Games."

Ah yes, the main character of the series, who didn't debut until the third game.

 

[KatKit]

Why else do people only bring up Heihachi as a potential Tekken rep, when Jin, Kazuya or even Yoshimitsu exist.

Let's see: he's had more crossover appearances than Jin and Kazuya, for example. He's the reason most of Tekken's main plot exists. Sakurai considered adding him to Smash 4, but couldn't at the time. The character is (seemingly) killed off in Tekken 7, and his Japanese voice actor died in real life, so it'd be nice tribute and opportunity to play a character fans of Tekken might see a lot less of.

I've literally never used Heihachi once in Soul Calibur 2 HD, TTT2, T7, and even Street Fighter x Tekken (and I've put countless hours into each), but I know out of anyone in the game, it should be him.

 

[cothero]

Heihachi's the face and icon of Tekken. If anyone from that series is going to get in its him.

Indeed, Heihachi is the most recognizable face of the series and one of the main characters, but Jin is the MAIN main character, being the protagonist.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Let's see: he's had more crossover appearances than Jin and Kazuya, for example. He's the reason most of Tekken's main plot exists. Sakurai considered adding him to Smash 4, but couldn't at the time. The character is (seemingly) killed off in Tekken 7, and his Japanese voice actor died in real life, so it'd be nice tribute and opportunity to play a character fans of Two men might see a lot less of.

I've literally never used Heihachi once in Soul Calibur 2 HD, TTT2, T7, and even Street Fighter x Tekken (and I've put countless hours into each), but I know out of anyone in the game, it should be him.

This.

He's to Tekken as Scorpion is to Mortal Kombat as Nightmare is to Soulcalibur and Terry Bogard is to SNK. They're the icons and poster boys of their franchises.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Regardless of Kazama's main protagonist status, Yoshimitsu is ten times cooler.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Indeed, Heihachi is the most recognizable face of the series and one of the main characters, but Jin is the MAIN main character, being the protagonist.

Well Liu Kang's the main character of Mortal Kombat yet Scorpion being the icon and poster boy of the series would obviously be chosen if it came to Mortal Kombat in Smash.

Same case for Heihachi here given his numerous guest appearances like Project Zone X, Soulcalibur II (PS2), PSASBR and such. If anyone's gonna be in Smash from Tekken it'll be him. AND the fact he had a Mii costume in Sm4sh and was considered for a playable character by Sakurai.

RIP Jin.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Which is a real shame too as Jin or Kazuya would be a lot more fun and interesting with their devil abilities than Heihachi.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Here's an update of my estimated sliding scale of iconicness.

Spoiler: Sliding Scale of 3rd party character iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are highly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)/Snake (Metal Gear)/Sub Zero (Mortal Kombat)

8th: Phoenix Wright/Crash Bandicoot/Agumon (Digimon)/Leon (Resident Evil)

9th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer/Terry (King of Fighters)

10th: Akira (virtura fighter)/Kunio (Kunio-Kun)/Dante (Devil May Cry)/Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia)/Steve (Minecraft)

These characters are not highly iconic to be playable, and thus don't need to be playable characters:

11th: Jibanyan/Ragna (Blazblue)

12th: Shantae/Crono/Klonoa/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Viewtiful Joe/Jason (Blaster Master)/Conker

13th: Quote (cave story)/Bayonetta/Chell (Portal)/Gunvolt/Frisk/Protagonist (persona)/Cuphead/Protagonist (persona)/Travis (no more heroes)

14th: Shovel Knight/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)/A Boy and His Blob

15th: Marina (Mischief Makers)/Neku (the world ends with you)

 

[cothero]

This.

He's to Tekken as Scorpion is to Mortal Kombat as Nightmare is to Soulcalibur and Terry Bogard is to SNK. They're the icons and poster boys of their franchises.

If you're right, i wouldn't even mind. Heihachi is way cooler than Jin, anyway. The thing is: Bandai Namco started working with HAL in Smash way back in Sm4sh and all that Heihachi had was a Mii costume appearance. Sakurai himself said on an interview that Heihachi was considered, but implementing his movements in Smash would be difficult. That and the Mii costume = a big NO for the character. If Heihachi was considered for Ultimate, he would have being added already.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nobody likes Ross anyway :D

He was right though, they WERE on a break

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If you're right, i wouldn't even mind. Heihachi is way cooler than Jin, anyway. The thing is: Bandai Namco started working with HAL in Smash way back in Sm4sh and all that Heihachi had was a Mii costume appearance. Sakurai himself said on an interview that Heihachi was considered, but implementing his movements in Smash would be difficult. That and the Mii costume = a big NO for the character. If Heihachi was considered for Ultimate, he would have being added already.

Given were getting yet more DLC he's still possible and no one but him from Tekken will get in if that series gets representation due to reasons already stated.

After someone likeSakurai the madman can make anyone work and probably assuming Heihachi is among those probably figured it out with his moveset by now.

 

[KatKit]

Regardless of Kazama's main protagonist status, Yoshimitsu is ten times cooler.

And Kunimitsu is 10x cooler than him. Though if you're talking about Soul Calibur Yoshi (totally different character), let me tell you about my girls Cass and Mina.

But alas, Smash doesn't care about any of that, so it doesn't matter. I'd just be hyped for a Tekken (or Soul Calibur) rep of any kind, regardless of who the character is.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

And Kunimitsu is 10x cooler than him. Though if you're talking about Soul Calibur Yoshi (totally different character), let me tell you about my girls Cass and Mina.

But alas, Smash doesn't care about any of that, so it doesn't matter. I'd just be hyped for a Tekken (or Soul Calibur) rep of any kind, regardless of who the character is.

Roger the Kangaroo is the best Tekken pic, smh people!

Also, seeing you're a fellow Gravity Rush fan, what do you think are the chances Sony would allow one of their characters to be in Smash? I'd go for Kat obviously. She's already had a moveset demonstrated in PSABR.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If any Sony rep is to make it to Smash it'll either be Kratos or Sackboy for obvious reasons. Sorry to be that guy.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Regardless of Kazama's main protagonist status, Yoshimitsu is ten times cooler.

Plus, he can rep Soul Calibur at the same time.

 

[Ridrool64]

The only realistic Sony characters I really care about are Ratchet & Clank.

Sly and PaRappa are not realistic. The rest don't tickle my fancy that much.

 

[UberPyro64]

https://twitter.com/pushdustin/status/1170886708994248704?s=21

PushDustin says this data isn’t trustworthy. As it’s a very small sample size and has a bunch of issues.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I did not and would never call Terry Hat Ken nor back anyone doing that. I'm just pointing out that yes China and Latin America love him but clearly the general internet response has been polarized. If that counts as enough hype to be called a massive hypeball I'm sure Waluigi does too.

By the way I'm Latin American and nobody in my country bar hardcore fighting game enthusiasts are very aware of who Terry is anymore. I'm sure he and SNK are popular around but if you'd been led to believe he's as well known as Superman around here, well that's not true either.

I mean, you're not calling him Hat Ken, but other people certainly are.

I think the important point people seem to be missing is that hype and popularity are relative. Just because Terry isn't super popular here doesn't mean he's not super popular at all. A lot of Smash fans need to realize there's a whole wide world out there and that other people like other characters. And that's not a bad thing.

But nope. Terry is Hat Ken I guess.

Well that's just my opinion buddy, I'm not going to discuss it.

>I'm not going to discuss it
>"Too bad people want Sora and Lloyd though."

That seems like discussion to me?

 

[KatKit]

Roger the Kangaroo is the best Tekken pic, smh people!

Also, seeing you're a fellow Gravity Rush fan, what do you think are the chances Sony would allow one of their characters to be in Smash? I'd go for Kat obviously. She's already had a moveset demonstrated in PSABR.

Thanks for reminding how zany Tekken's roster is. And for those of you unfamiliar with the franchise, the boxing Kangaroo isn't even as wacky as it gets.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a Sony rep, but it's not completely impossible; Smash keeps breaking all kinds of video game boundaries. Really? Cool, same. :D I talked about it more in the Sony thread, but she'd be unbelievably fun. Even more so now since she got new powers in GR2.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Here's an update of my estimated sliding scale of iconicness.

Spoiler: Sliding Scale of 3rd party character iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are highly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)/Snake (Metal Gear)/Sub Zero (Mortal Kombat)

8th: Phoenix Wright/Crash Bandicoot/Agumon (Digimon)/Leon (Resident Evil)

9th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer/Terry (King of Fighters)

10th: Akira (virtura fighter)/Kunio (Kunio-Kun)/Dante (Devil May Cry)/Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia)/Steve (Minecraft)

These characters are not highly iconic to be playable, and thus don't need to be playable characters:

11th: Jibanyan/Ragna (Blazblue)

12th: Shantae/Crono/Klonoa/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Viewtiful Joe/Jason (Blaster Master)/Conker

13th: Quote (cave story)/Bayonetta/Chell (Portal)/Gunvolt/Frisk/Protagonist (persona)/Cuphead/Protagonist (persona)/Travis (no more heroes)

14th: Shovel Knight/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)/A Boy and His Blob

15th: Marina (Mischief Makers)/Neku (the world ends with you)

There is so much wrong with this list. Like so goddamn much wrong with character rankings on this freaking list and it reads like a personal interest list rather than anything substantial, starting with Pac-Man somehow being less iconic than Mega Man and Sonic...

if you're talking about my list, like I said, I don't know Valve characters that well. Heavy is just the character I hear talk about most. If Gordon is the face of Valve, then just imagine I put Gordon on the list, instead of "Gordon/Heavy/Chell". I meant no offense.

Oh sorry, that wasn't directed at you or anyone else in the thread. Just the recent Twitter study-thing in which Heavy apparently ranks 7th in Europe and some of the sentiment I see around people pushing for Heavy lol.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

The character is (seemingly) killed off in Tekken 7, and his Japanese voice actor died in real life, so it'd be nice tribute and opportunity to play a character fans of Tekken might see a lot less of.

That doesn't make any sense as the character is officially retired in mainline Tekken games, and his voice actor has passed away. They didnt make new Snake codecs for this same exact reason

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Here's an update of my estimated sliding scale of iconicness.

Spoiler: Sliding Scale of 3rd party character iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are highly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)/Snake (Metal Gear)/Sub Zero (Mortal Kombat)

8th: Phoenix Wright/Crash Bandicoot/Agumon (Digimon)/Leon (Resident Evil)

9th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer/Terry (King of Fighters)

10th: Akira (virtura fighter)/Kunio (Kunio-Kun)/Dante (Devil May Cry)/Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia)/Steve (Minecraft)

These characters are not highly iconic to be playable, and thus don't need to be playable characters:

11th: Jibanyan/Ragna (Blazblue)

12th: Shantae/Crono/Klonoa/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Viewtiful Joe/Jason (Blaster Master)/Conker

13th: Quote (cave story)/Bayonetta/Chell (Portal)/Gunvolt/Frisk/Protagonist (persona)/Cuphead/Protagonist (persona)/Travis (no more heroes)

14th: Shovel Knight/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)/A Boy and His Blob

15th: Marina (Mischief Makers)/Neku (the world ends with you)

Kid. We've moved on from iconicness discussion. I feel that I speak for everyone here when I say that no one wants to rehash this discussion, and your attempts at baiting people into beginning it again are not appreciated.

There is so much wrong with this list. Like so goddamn much wrong with character rankings on this freaking list and it reads like a personal interest list rather than anything substantial, starting with Pac-Man somehow being less iconic than Mega Man and Sonic...

Don't humor this guy with a serious response. Just ignore him.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So happy to see Shantae so high up. I wonder if this list was made taking into consideration Assist Trophy status (I know Waluigi is an exception to this always) due to the lack of Shovel Knight.
I like them both exactly the same, but ive always wondered who people want more in general.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

https://twitter.com/pushdustin/status/1170886708994248704?s=21

PushDustin says this data isn’t trustworthy. As it’s a very small sample size and has a bunch of issues.
PushDustin says this data isn’t trustworthy. As it’s a very small sample size and has a bunch of issues.

Of course it was going to be. Any sort of "poll" from the Smash fanbase is automatically flawed due to a small sample size and voluntary response bias among other problems.

The only ones I'd remotely trust would be the randomized Reddit Ultimate poll and maybe the Sabi/PapaGenos/TotstheWoz poll depending on how it turns out in response to sample size and reach.

 

[N3ON]

https://twitter.com/pushdustin/status/1170886708994248704?s=21

PushDustin says this data isn’t trustworthy. As it’s a very small sample size and has a bunch of issues.
PushDustin says this data isn’t trustworthy. As it’s a very small sample size and has a bunch of issues.

One day I'm just going to create totally random poll "results", turn them into a credible looking image, and unleash it upon the world.

 

[Nemuresu]

Of course it was going to be. Any sort of "poll" from the Smash fanbase is automatically flawed due to a small sample size and voluntary response bias among other problems.

The only ones I'd remotely trust would be the randomized Reddit Ultimate poll and maybe the Sabi/PapaGenos/TotstheWoz poll depending on how it turns out in response to sample size and reach.

I wouldn't even give that poll a chance if you're gonna use favoritism as a con for it. That thing's being promotioned in Geno-dedicated places. I mean, ffs, that thing is in the Geno Support thread OP and involves Papagenos' Discord. I already gave my vote and I sure as hell still expect a lot of bias because of the circles the poll is being shared around.